What rule changes should NVSL do for next year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d change the age rule to 6/30 or sometime around then so 1/2 way through the season

I still don’t see a need to change the current rule. It works regardless of what FCPS does with its calendar. But if they had to change it, this would be the best of the options. And more consistent with what I’ve seen in other seasonal sports.

What? You’d have kids age up in the middle of the season? Terrible idea.

No other sports (eg baseball, soccer, basketball) have I seen kids compete in a different groups/teams because they hit a birthday. Usually your age group is the age group for the entire season.

The NVSL season is so short, what maybe 6-8 weeks. Is it really that deep that a kid compete for an extra 3 weeks being older than competitors? Seriously…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d change the age rule to 6/30 or sometime around then so 1/2 way through the season

I still don’t see a need to change the current rule. It works regardless of what FCPS does with its calendar. But if they had to change it, this would be the best of the options. And more consistent with what I’ve seen in other seasonal sports.

What? You’d have kids age up in the middle of the season? Terrible idea.

No other sports (eg baseball, soccer, basketball) have I seen kids compete in a different groups/teams because they hit a birthday. Usually your age group is the age group for the entire season.

The NVSL season is so short, what maybe 6-8 weeks. Is it really that deep that a kid compete for an extra 3 weeks being older than competitors? Seriously…

Not the PP, but I think they were saying you swim the whole season based on the age you will be on June 30. I’m strongly opposed to that too, but wanted to clarify what I think they meant. But I don’t love making an 8 year old swim up for those first several weeks. How is that more fair than a 9 year old swimming down?

Not to rehash this, but I think people really overestimate the advantages of a summer birthday. The fastest kids in the NVSL are usually just fast swimmers, period, not the swimmers that have a “good summer swim birthday”. My winter birthday kid is far more successful in summer swim than my June birthday kid, even when the June one is swimming with younger kids. And that winter kid is beating the kids that are swimming down for their true age. I have a broad NVSL network and this holds pretty true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Love the changing the rule about shirts. It is a ridiculous rule, and having one only slows down a swimmer

Except there's already a clear and straightforward process to get an exemption. No need to change to rule just because people don't want to follow it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d change the age rule to 6/30 or sometime around then so 1/2 way through the season

I still don’t see a need to change the current rule. It works regardless of what FCPS does with its calendar. But if they had to change it, this would be the best of the options. And more consistent with what I’ve seen in other seasonal sports.

What? You’d have kids age up in the middle of the season? Terrible idea.

No other sports (eg baseball, soccer, basketball) have I seen kids compete in a different groups/teams because they hit a birthday. Usually your age group is the age group for the entire season.

The NVSL season is so short, what maybe 6-8 weeks. Is it really that deep that a kid compete for an extra 3 weeks being older than competitors? Seriously…

Not the PP, but I think they were saying you swim the whole season based on the age you will be on June 30. I’m strongly opposed to that too, but wanted to clarify what I think they meant. But I don’t love making an 8 year old swim up for those first several weeks. How is that more fair than a 9 year old swimming down?

Not to rehash this, but I think people really overestimate the advantages of a summer birthday. The fastest kids in the NVSL are usually just fast swimmers, period, not the swimmers that have a “good summer swim birthday”. My winter birthday kid is far more successful in summer swim than my June birthday kid, even when the June one is swimming with younger kids. And that winter kid is beating the kids that are swimming down for their true age. I have a broad NVSL network and this holds pretty true.

I’m pretty sure the 15 year old boy physically has an advantage over my 13 year old and my 13 year old is fast

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d change the age rule to 6/30 or sometime around then so 1/2 way through the season

I still don’t see a need to change the current rule. It works regardless of what FCPS does with its calendar. But if they had to change it, this would be the best of the options. And more consistent with what I’ve seen in other seasonal sports.

What? You’d have kids age up in the middle of the season? Terrible idea.

No other sports (eg baseball, soccer, basketball) have I seen kids compete in a different groups/teams because they hit a birthday. Usually your age group is the age group for the entire season.

The NVSL season is so short, what maybe 6-8 weeks. Is it really that deep that a kid compete for an extra 3 weeks being older than competitors? Seriously…

Not the PP, but I think they were saying you swim the whole season based on the age you will be on June 30. I’m strongly opposed to that too, but wanted to clarify what I think they meant. But I don’t love making an 8 year old swim up for those first several weeks. How is that more fair than a 9 year old swimming down?

Not to rehash this, but I think people really overestimate the advantages of a summer birthday. The fastest kids in the NVSL are usually just fast swimmers, period, not the swimmers that have a “good summer swim birthday”. My winter birthday kid is far more successful in summer swim than my June birthday kid, even when the June one is swimming with younger kids. And that winter kid is beating the kids that are swimming down for their true age. I have a broad NVSL network and this holds pretty true.

I’m pretty sure the 15 year old boy physically has an advantage over my 13 year old and my 13 year old is fast

Yes. A kid at the top of a 2 year age group is generally bigger and stronger than a kid at the bottom of a 2 year age group regardless of where you draw a line. A 14 year and 11 month old is still generally bigger and stronger than your humble brag 13 year old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also fwiw most pvs officials don’t really think pads should be used for 10 and unders and prefer buttons bc so many kids miss the pads.

PVS AO here. Who will operate the touchpad systems? Who will set them up? This is not difficult but it takes training.

For the tech suit rule, there are advantages to keeping the technical rules aligned with USA Swimming for meet management rules and NFHSS for the stroke rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also fwiw most pvs officials don’t really think pads should be used for 10 and unders and prefer buttons bc so many kids miss the pads.

PVS AO here. Who will operate the touchpad systems? Who will set them up? This is not difficult but it takes training.

For the tech suit rule, there are advantages to keeping the technical rules aligned with USA Swimming for meet management rules and NFHSS for the stroke rules.

Like what? I think that the rule is aligned in what the kids are allowed to where (Relay Carnival, ASR, and IAS) and the prohibition from dual meets is reasonable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also fwiw most pvs officials don’t really think pads should be used for 10 and unders and prefer buttons bc so many kids miss the pads.

PVS AO here. Who will operate the touchpad systems? Who will set them up? This is not difficult but it takes training.

For the tech suit rule, there are advantages to keeping the technical rules aligned with USA Swimming for meet management rules and NFHSS for the stroke rules.

Like what? I think that the rule is aligned in what the kids are allowed to where (Relay Carnival, ASR, and IAS) and the prohibition from dual meets is reasonable.

Or event just precedent. The fastest swimmers in the world don’t wear tech suits to college dual meets, they only wear them for conference meets, NCAAs, The Olympics, etc. In club, most kids save their tech suits for winter and spring champs meets, not a regular old meet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also fwiw most pvs officials don’t really think pads should be used for 10 and unders and prefer buttons bc so many kids miss the pads.

PVS AO here. Who will operate the touchpad systems? Who will set them up? This is not difficult but it takes training.

For the tech suit rule, there are advantages to keeping the technical rules aligned with USA Swimming for meet management rules and NFHSS for the stroke rules.

Like what? I think that the rule is aligned in what the kids are allowed to where (Relay Carnival, ASR, and IAS) and the prohibition from dual meets is reasonable.

Like PP, I'd be really interested in hearing what these "advantages" are? I can't think of any..... unless it's just a shorter rule book? but that would be silly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also fwiw most pvs officials don’t really think pads should be used for 10 and unders and prefer buttons bc so many kids miss the pads.

PVS AO here. Who will operate the touchpad systems? Who will set them up? This is not difficult but it takes training.

For the tech suit rule, there are advantages to keeping the technical rules aligned with USA Swimming for meet management rules and NFHSS for the stroke rules.

Like what? I think that the rule is aligned in what the kids are allowed to where (Relay Carnival, ASR, and IAS) and the prohibition from dual meets is reasonable.

Or event just precedent. The fastest swimmers in the world don’t wear tech suits to college dual meets, they only wear them for conference meets, NCAAs, The Olympics, etc. In club, most kids save their tech suits for winter and spring champs meets, not a regular old meet.

While I strongly agree that tech suits (including aquablades) should be banned for dual meets, your statement that the fastest kids in the world don't wear them to dual meets is not true. Bob Bowman,Todd DeSorbo, and many other college coaches have been on the record about their weekly use of them.

https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/tech-tuesday-arizona-state-coach-bob-bowman-on-the-use-of-tech-suits-in-dual-meets/
https://swimswam.com/practice-pancakes-virginia-tech-suits-up-for-8x100-off-the-blocks/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also fwiw most pvs officials don’t really think pads should be used for 10 and unders and prefer buttons bc so many kids miss the pads.

PVS AO here. Who will operate the touchpad systems? Who will set them up? This is not difficult but it takes training.

For the tech suit rule, there are advantages to keeping the technical rules aligned with USA Swimming for meet management rules and NFHSS for the stroke rules.

Like what? I think that the rule is aligned in what the kids are allowed to where (Relay Carnival, ASR, and IAS) and the prohibition from dual meets is reasonable.

Or event just precedent. The fastest swimmers in the world don’t wear tech suits to college dual meets, they only wear them for conference meets, NCAAs, The Olympics, etc. In club, most kids save their tech suits for winter and spring champs meets, not a regular old meet.

While I strongly agree that tech suits (including aquablades) should be banned for dual meets, your statement that the fastest kids in the world don't wear them to dual meets is not true. Bob Bowman,Todd DeSorbo, and many other college coaches have been on the record about their weekly use of them.

https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/tech-tuesday-arizona-state-coach-bob-bowman-on-the-use-of-tech-suits-in-dual-meets/
https://swimswam.com/practice-pancakes-virginia-tech-suits-up-for-8x100-off-the-blocks/

Sure, thinking on this may be evolving in pockets. But historically, fast college swimmers didn't suit for dual meets. I've attended UVA meets in the past where they haven't suited. It's a charged topic just like it is in the NVSL, as reflected in the articles you shared.

[Anonymous]

Parent of older club swimmer. Many more club swimmers are wearing tech suits to meets other than champs meets. My DC used to be this way but DC wears them more often now, almost to every meet now. Champs/sectionals/futures get the new tech suit, and “older” or previously used tech suits are worn to the meets in between.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parent of older club swimmer. Many more club swimmers are wearing tech suits to meets other than champs meets. My DC used to be this way but DC wears them more often now, almost to every meet now. Champs/sectionals/futures get the new tech suit, and “older” or previously used tech suits are worn to the meets in between.

PP and I’m also the parent of older club swimmers that have qualified for the 3 meets you listed above. My DCs have held out on this and still wear regular suits to regular meets. They wear their “older” suits for prelims at the bigger meets and new/newer suits for finals. I’m not saying that’s right or wrong - and I agree that it’s becoming more commonplace to suit for every meet - but that hasn’t always been the guidance at higher levels of swimming. I guess my point is that if it’s still not totally the norm in club and college to suit for reg/dual meets, I’m not sure it should be the norm for NVSL either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also fwiw most pvs officials don’t really think pads should be used for 10 and unders and prefer buttons bc so many kids miss the pads.

PVS AO here. Who will operate the touchpad systems? Who will set them up? This is not difficult but it takes training.

For the tech suit rule, there are advantages to keeping the technical rules aligned with USA Swimming for meet management rules and NFHSS for the stroke rules.

Like what? I think that the rule is aligned in what the kids are allowed to where (Relay Carnival, ASR, and IAS) and the prohibition from dual meets is reasonable.

Or event just precedent. The fastest swimmers in the world don’t wear tech suits to college dual meets, they only wear them for conference meets, NCAAs, The Olympics, etc. In club, most kids save their tech suits for winter and spring champs meets, not a regular old meet.

Not true. I went to a UVA dual meet, and Gretchen Walsh herself wore a tech suit.

[Anonymous]

PP that you quoted. I believe we agree that tech suits used to not be the norm at club swim meets.

My point is that they are more the norm now than not. I actually specifically noticed it at the May/June meets how few swimmers were not in tech suits. To characterize club swim as only wearing tech suits at champs meets if false though.

And not saying tech suits belong at NVSL meets or not. I have no real opinion. I don’t believe that wearing a tech suit though should be characterized as unsportsmanlike. Tech suits has nothing to do with sportsmanship in my opinion.