why doesn't hamas surrender?

[Anonymous]

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/12/13/its-not-shocking-to-see-israeli-children-celebrate-the-gaza-genocide

video of Israeli girls singing "in a year there's be nothing there"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hamas IS the government of Gaza (but not the West Bank).

Hamas - a designated terrorist organization- runs all education and schools in Gaza.

Here is the education provided to all children in Gaza:

OMFG. Who would intentionally do such atrocious things to the minds of their own children?!?!

Absolute monsters!

Israel does.

You don’t want to know what their extremists teach their children

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HAMAS is a death-cult.

They literally want to die in order to become martyrs.

The AUDACITY of a ZIONIST calling someone else but THEMSELF a death cult. Your policies kill innocent children

every.single.day.

My close American friend just got back from Gaza where he volunteered as a doctor for a couple of weeks. He received multiple victims with gunshots to the head from food aid traps. He video taped it! Mostly children and teenagers.

Zionists want “Chaim” for themselves and death to everybody who resists the outright thievery of their homes.

You dodged the question.

It’s true that Hamas slaughtered over a thousand civilians (including attacking a civilian music festival) and continues to hold hostages, which is a flagrant human right abuse. Hamas is a designated terrorist organization.

Don’t you agree with these simple facts? (I’m not interested in your childish what-aboutisms. Do you agree or not?).

DP. Most of the evidence suggests that the majority of Israeli civilians deaths on Oct7 were result of IDF tank and artillery fire. The area in which Oct7 happened is moderate and a stronghold of opposition against Netanyahu. One of the few areas in the country like that. It seems very convenient that this area had troops moved to other areas of Israel before the attack, the IDF showed little concern for civilians collateral damage and Israel has done nothing to get the hostages taken from the area back.

I mean, what? Are you serious? Whatever else you think about this situation, that is just absolutely dishonest nonsense. Hamas owns every one of those deaths, they filmed them, they broadcast them, they shared them with the world. Even the Arab states acknowledge Hamas killed over a thousand people on 10/7, it's not up for debate. If you are going to start an argument with such absolute revisionist history and BS, then nothing else you say is worth listening to.

And full disclosure, I lost several friends at Kibbutz Nir Oz. I don't support the current Israeli governement's handling of the his war, nor do most of my Israeli friends and family members. But I will not stay silent in the face of such absolute dishonesty about what happened that day.

The information will come out but it will take years because Bibi is going nowhere. The type of light weapon Hamas had not blow the clothes off civilians or reduce buildings to rubble. There are plenty of signs of what happened and who killed who. Lots coverup and rallying to the flag by the Israelis.

The rape claims were propagated by Israeli civilians dead not having clothes on. Artillery, helicopters missiles fire and tank fire commonly will blow clothing from the victims and destroy buildings. These weapons on impact cause blast overpressure and wind blast. The blast overpressure alone kills people within 50 meters. This is not the fragmentation that extends out from there. There was a lot of collateral damage and deaths caused by the IDF. The rank and file IDF is not trained to do urban hostages rescue.

When the US Marines went in to Fallujah in 2004 estimates of Iraqi civilian deaths ranged from 271 to 731 and the US military suffered 27 deaths. The second battle of Fallujah resulted in even higher civilian casualties estimates ranging from 600 to over 800. This was with the US Marines fully prepared and briefed with strict ROE. The IDF was in full panic mode and had no ROE.

They’ve lived there for thousands of years: they know the land better than Americans and Israelis do.

What I don’t understand is why Netanyahu is silent about Qatar’s role in funding Hamas. Qatar is an even easier target than Hamas for Israel yet radio silence..

If Egypt warned Israel about a potential attack and something funny going on with Hamas transactions, then I’m sure Qatar must have warned Israel too as that’s where the Hamas HQ is. Al Jazeera is also biased in favor of Hamas because they never show the majority of anti Hamas Gazans who curse Hamas (not Israel) for their current fate. There are lots and lots of Palestinians who hate Hamas and they’re never shown in Arab media

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be happy to get on board with recognizing Palestine if Hamas surrendered. Right now, if Hamas prevailed, it would mean that you can gain statehood by slaughtering your neighbors. I can't get on board with that. I don't like what's going on in Palestine, but it's not like the violence would end if we recognized Palestine and Israel backed down. All that would change is that the violence would be in both directions. It really, really sucks that innocent people are being harmed by this, but I can't see how handing a terrorist organization a nation is the right path forward for peace. If anyone can explain it to me calmly, without calling me names, I am open to hearing because I genuinely don't understand. Right now, the argument is just "people are starving"-- which is bad, but how does statehood or Israel backing down reduce the violence when we know full well that Hamas and Iran want to continue it?

So Israel has legitimized itself by committing violence against the Palestinians, but the Palestinians are delegitimizing themselves by standing up to the violence? Got it. I realize that the justification for stealing their land is that a magical man in the sky says you deserve to, but maybe think critically for a minute.

They are both violent. But only one of the countries is actively hostile toward the US. It's hard to understand why it's in the US interest to empower Hamas. They will only use that power to harm us. It's not about who's legitimate here- its about who is more likely to kill us. We can be against famine in Palestine while also expecting Hamas to step aside. I don't understand at all why the left is supporting Hamas.

I think Israel is more likely to kill us than Hamas. Benjamin Netanyahu referenced “America dead” last month on Fox to justify the need for an Iran war now. If that’s not obvious, I don’t know what it is. The truth is Iraq would’ve never happened without 9/11 which Netanyahu celebrated as great for Israel. If Israel’s not our worst enemy, they’re at the very least not any better than Arabs when it comes to being our friends. It’s time for Americans to realize that. They’re all our frenemies as far as I’m concerned

[Anonymous]

I also think Netanyahu overplayed his hand with American presidents, and his country is facing backlash for it. He’s not Mister America like he thinks and multiple presidents dislike him

[Anonymous]

Every nation in the Arab League called for Hamas to disarm and end its rule in Gaza. All of them. Nothing works until that happens. Like it or not, Hamas and their supporters have no viable path to stay in power. The amount of destruction that Hamas has inflicted on the region is breathtaking. I don't get why anyone that cares about life and freedom is so supportive of Hamas. It's been an incredibly destructive regime for Palestinians. I get the feeling that American progressives have never been to the Middle East. There is ZERO support for Hamas in the region. Until Palestinians move on from extremist Islamists in Gaza, the situation is hopeless. That's reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hamas IS the government of Gaza (but not the West Bank).

Hamas - a designated terrorist organization- runs all education and schools in Gaza.

Here is the education provided to all children in Gaza:

OMFG. Who would intentionally do such atrocious things to the minds of their own children?!?!

Absolute monsters!

Israel does.

You don’t want to know what their extremists teach their children

DP it is not just ‘extremists!’


Israeli scholar Adir Cohen, for example, analysed for his book titled “An Ugly Face in the Mirror – National Stereotypes in Hebrew Children’s Literature” some 1700 Hebrew-language children’s books published in Israel between 1967 and 1985, and found that a whopping 520 of them contained humiliating, negative descriptions of the Palestinians.

He revealed that 66 percent of these 520 books refer to Arabs as violent; 52 percent as evil; 37 percent as liars; 31 percent as greedy; 28 percent as two-faced and 27 percent as traitors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be happy to get on board with recognizing Palestine if Hamas surrendered. Right now, if Hamas prevailed, it would mean that you can gain statehood by slaughtering your neighbors. I can't get on board with that. I don't like what's going on in Palestine, but it's not like the violence would end if we recognized Palestine and Israel backed down. All that would change is that the violence would be in both directions. It really, really sucks that innocent people are being harmed by this, but I can't see how handing a terrorist organization a nation is the right path forward for peace. If anyone can explain it to me calmly, without calling me names, I am open to hearing because I genuinely don't understand. Right now, the argument is just "people are starving"-- which is bad, but how does statehood or Israel backing down reduce the violence when we know full well that Hamas and Iran want to continue it?

So Israel has legitimized itself by committing violence against the Palestinians, but the Palestinians are delegitimizing themselves by standing up to the violence? Got it. I realize that the justification for stealing their land is that a magical man in the sky says you deserve to, but maybe think critically for a minute.

They are both violent. But only one of the countries is actively hostile toward the US. It's hard to understand why it's in the US interest to empower Hamas. They will only use that power to harm us. It's not about who's legitimate here- its about who is more likely to kill us. We can be against famine in Palestine while also expecting Hamas to step aside. I don't understand at all why the left is supporting Hamas.

unfortunately at this point, it is not about who is right or wrong. it is about who won. the starvation will not end until this is recognized. I wish that good (or even better) people always won. but that isn't the world we live it. let's recognize the facts on the ground, get a surrender, and then see how best yo help the children and noncombatants of Gaza after that. the combatant knew the cost of living when they went ahead on 7 oct

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be happy to get on board with recognizing Palestine if Hamas surrendered. Right now, if Hamas prevailed, it would mean that you can gain statehood by slaughtering your neighbors. I can't get on board with that. I don't like what's going on in Palestine, but it's not like the violence would end if we recognized Palestine and Israel backed down. All that would change is that the violence would be in both directions. It really, really sucks that innocent people are being harmed by this, but I can't see how handing a terrorist organization a nation is the right path forward for peace. If anyone can explain it to me calmly, without calling me names, I am open to hearing because I genuinely don't understand. Right now, the argument is just "people are starving"-- which is bad, but how does statehood or Israel backing down reduce the violence when we know full well that Hamas and Iran want to continue it?

So Israel has legitimized itself by committing violence against the Palestinians, but the Palestinians are delegitimizing themselves by standing up to the violence? Got it. I realize that the justification for stealing their land is that a magical man in the sky says you deserve to, but maybe think critically for a minute.

They are both violent. But only one of the countries is actively hostile toward the US. It's hard to understand why it's in the US interest to empower Hamas. They will only use that power to harm us. It's not about who's legitimate here- its about who is more likely to kill us. We can be against famine in Palestine while also expecting Hamas to step aside. I don't understand at all why the left is supporting Hamas.

I think Israel is more likely to kill us than Hamas. Benjamin Netanyahu referenced “America dead” last month on Fox to justify the need for an Iran war now. If that’s not obvious, I don’t know what it is. The truth is Iraq would’ve never happened without 9/11 which Netanyahu celebrated as great for Israel. If Israel’s not our worst enemy, they’re at the very least not any better than Arabs when it comes to being our friends. It’s time for Americans to realize that. They’re all our frenemies as far as I’m concerned

I agree with everything you just wrote. But to get on board, I need to see an explicit, compelling discussion of why sponsoring Hamas to take over a new Arab state won't be devastating for us. I agree that Israel is a frenemy at best. But Hamas is our sworn enemy and they want to kill us. It does not make sense to back them. No one has explained what our next steps would be after we surrender this land to Hamas.