why doesn't hamas surrender?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What you are seeing in Gaza has nothing to do with getting the hostages back, defense of Israel or revenge for Oct7. This is all part of the plan.

Sure, sure. Whatever, conspiracy-theory nutjob.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HAMAS is a death-cult.

They literally want to die in order to become martyrs.

The AUDACITY of a ZIONIST calling someone else but THEMSELF a death cult. Your policies kill innocent children

every.single.day.

My close American friend just got back from Gaza where he volunteered as a doctor for a couple of weeks. He received multiple victims with gunshots to the head from food aid traps. He video taped it! Mostly children and teenagers.

Zionists want “Chaim” for themselves and death to everybody who resists the outright thievery of their homes.

You dodged the question.

It’s true that Hamas slaughtered over a thousand civilians (including attacking a civilian music festival) and continues to hold hostages, which is a flagrant human right abuse. Hamas is a designated terrorist organization.

Don’t you agree with these simple facts? (I’m not interested in your childish what-aboutisms. Do you agree or not?).

DP. Most of the evidence suggests that the majority of Israeli civilians deaths on Oct7 were result of IDF tank and artillery fire. The area in which Oct7 happened is moderate and a stronghold of opposition against Netanyahu. One of the few areas in the country like that. It seems very convenient that this area had troops moved to other areas of Israel before the attack, the IDF showed little concern for civilians collateral damage and Israel has done nothing to get the hostages taken from the area back.

I mean, what? Are you serious? Whatever else you think about this situation, that is just absolutely dishonest nonsense. Hamas owns every one of those deaths, they filmed them, they broadcast them, they shared them with the world. Even the Arab states acknowledge Hamas killed over a thousand people on 10/7, it's not up for debate. If you are going to start an argument with such absolute revisionist history and BS, then nothing else you say is worth listening to.

And full disclosure, I lost several friends at Kibbutz Nir Oz. I don't support the current Israeli governement's handling of the his war, nor do most of my Israeli friends and family members. But I will not stay silent in the face of such absolute dishonesty about what happened that day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hamas IS the government of Gaza (but not the West Bank).

Hamas - a designated terrorist organization- runs all education and schools in Gaza.

Here is the education provided to all children in Gaza:

OMFG. Who would intentionally do such atrocious things to the minds of their own children?!?!

Absolute monsters!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What you are seeing in Gaza has nothing to do with getting the hostages back, defense of Israel or revenge for Oct7. This is all part of the plan.

Sure, sure. Whatever, conspiracy-theory nutjob.

Hasbara troll here for duty!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hamas IS the government of Gaza (but not the West Bank).

Hamas - a designated terrorist organization- runs all education and schools in Gaza.

Here is the education provided to all children in Gaza:

OMFG. Who would intentionally do such atrocious things to the minds of their own children?!?!

Absolute monsters!

I ask my seemingly moderate American Jewish friends the same question. Years of being told they are ‘the chosen people’, that ‘Israel is THEIR homeland’, that Palestinians are ‘terrorists’. How could their parents and Jewish institutions teach them that??

I still recall my Ivy educated Jewish (otherwise liberal) friends saying things like ‘Beth, you don’t understand, these people (meaning Palestinians) are not like you and me, they’re animals’ or laughing about some joke about IDF ‘warning shots’ = a bullet to the head of a Palestinian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be happy to get on board with recognizing Palestine if Hamas surrendered. Right now, if Hamas prevailed, it would mean that you can gain statehood by slaughtering your neighbors. I can't get on board with that. I don't like what's going on in Palestine, but it's not like the violence would end if we recognized Palestine and Israel backed down. All that would change is that the violence would be in both directions. It really, really sucks that innocent people are being harmed by this, but I can't see how handing a terrorist organization a nation is the right path forward for peace. If anyone can explain it to me calmly, without calling me names, I am open to hearing because I genuinely don't understand. Right now, the argument is just "people are starving"-- which is bad, but how does statehood or Israel backing down reduce the violence when we know full well that Hamas and Iran want to continue it?

So Israel has legitimized itself by committing violence against the Palestinians, but the Palestinians are delegitimizing themselves by standing up to the violence? Got it. I realize that the justification for stealing their land is that a magical man in the sky says you deserve to, but maybe think critically for a minute.

They are both violent. But only one of the countries is actively hostile toward the US. It's hard to understand why it's in the US interest to empower Hamas. They will only use that power to harm us. It's not about who's legitimate here- its about who is more likely to kill us. We can be against famine in Palestine while also expecting Hamas to step aside. I don't understand at all why the left is supporting Hamas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be happy to get on board with recognizing Palestine if Hamas surrendered. Right now, if Hamas prevailed, it would mean that you can gain statehood by slaughtering your neighbors. I can't get on board with that. I don't like what's going on in Palestine, but it's not like the violence would end if we recognized Palestine and Israel backed down. All that would change is that the violence would be in both directions. It really, really sucks that innocent people are being harmed by this, but I can't see how handing a terrorist organization a nation is the right path forward for peace. If anyone can explain it to me calmly, without calling me names, I am open to hearing because I genuinely don't understand. Right now, the argument is just "people are starving"-- which is bad, but how does statehood or Israel backing down reduce the violence when we know full well that Hamas and Iran want to continue it?

So Israel has legitimized itself by committing violence against the Palestinians, but the Palestinians are delegitimizing themselves by standing up to the violence? Got it. I realize that the justification for stealing their land is that a magical man in the sky says you deserve to, but maybe think critically for a minute.

They are both violent. But only one of the countries is actively hostile toward the US. It's hard to understand why it's in the US interest to empower Hamas. They will only use that power to harm us. It's not about who's legitimate here- its about who is more likely to kill us. We can be against famine in Palestine while also expecting Hamas to step aside. I don't understand at all why the left is supporting Hamas.

Hamas is actively hostile. However, Israel is more likely to drag us into another drawn out military conflict in the Middle East like they tried to do with Iran.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this is a genocide, Israel sucks at it. More than 30 months in and the Palestinians keep birthing babies and carrying on. You’d think they’d be more efficient.

With your mindset, Hitler was also terribly inefficient and sucked at genocide, because the Jewish people kept having babies. Lots and lots of them in fact.

Actually, they didn’t. The Jewish population in 1940 was about 16.5 million. Today it’s 15.7 million. Six million Jews died in the Holocaust and then they’ve been subject to persecution across North Africa and the Middle East at the hands of Islamists in places like Iraq, Iran, Tunisia, etc further diminishing populations and fertility rates.

It doesn’t mean Palestinians are thriving. But to say that Jews have somehow rebounded from an actual genocide by having “lots of babies” is not true. On the other hand, Palestinian birth rates have skyrocketed over the last two decades; one of the reasons why its population is very young and vulnerable.

Palestinian birth rate is only one child per family higher than Israel's. It did not in any way "skyrocket".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be happy to get on board with recognizing Palestine if Hamas surrendered. Right now, if Hamas prevailed, it would mean that you can gain statehood by slaughtering your neighbors. I can't get on board with that. I don't like what's going on in Palestine, but it's not like the violence would end if we recognized Palestine and Israel backed down. All that would change is that the violence would be in both directions. It really, really sucks that innocent people are being harmed by this, but I can't see how handing a terrorist organization a nation is the right path forward for peace. If anyone can explain it to me calmly, without calling me names, I am open to hearing because I genuinely don't understand. Right now, the argument is just "people are starving"-- which is bad, but how does statehood or Israel backing down reduce the violence when we know full well that Hamas and Iran want to continue it?

So Israel has legitimized itself by committing violence against the Palestinians, but the Palestinians are delegitimizing themselves by standing up to the violence? Got it. I realize that the justification for stealing their land is that a magical man in the sky says you deserve to, but maybe think critically for a minute.

They are both violent. But only one of the countries is actively hostile toward the US. It's hard to understand why it's in the US interest to empower Hamas. They will only use that power to harm us. It's not about who's legitimate here- its about who is more likely to kill us. We can be against famine in Palestine while also expecting Hamas to step aside. I don't understand at all why the left is supporting Hamas.

Hamas is actively hostile. However, Israel is more likely to drag us into another drawn out military conflict in the Middle East like they tried to do with Iran.

I don't see it that way. If we recognize a Hamas-led Palestine, they will indeed be strengthened. I mentioned this upthread and was told I am a religious nut, which is an interesting read of my concerns. Is there any response to my concern that this will strengthen Hamas?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would be happy to get on board with recognizing Palestine if Hamas surrendered. Right now, if Hamas prevailed, it would mean that you can gain statehood by slaughtering your neighbors. I can't get on board with that. I don't like what's going on in Palestine, but it's not like the violence would end if we recognized Palestine and Israel backed down. All that would change is that the violence would be in both directions. It really, really sucks that innocent people are being harmed by this, but I can't see how handing a terrorist organization a nation is the right path forward for peace. If anyone can explain it to me calmly, without calling me names, I am open to hearing because I genuinely don't understand. Right now, the argument is just "people are starving"-- which is bad, but how does statehood or Israel backing down reduce the violence when we know full well that Hamas and Iran want to continue it?

So Israel has legitimized itself by committing violence against the Palestinians, but the Palestinians are delegitimizing themselves by standing up to the violence? Got it. I realize that the justification for stealing their land is that a magical man in the sky says you deserve to, but maybe think critically for a minute.

They are both violent. But only one of the countries is actively hostile toward the US. It's hard to understand why it's in the US interest to empower Hamas. They will only use that power to harm us. It's not about who's legitimate here- its about who is more likely to kill us. We can be against famine in Palestine while also expecting Hamas to step aside. I don't understand at all why the left is supporting Hamas.

Are you intentionally lying and obfuscating? Israel is a nuclear power and has just bombed 4 nations in the last year infront of our eyes and you have the gall to still say spout this nonsense. Enough!

[Anonymous]

Why the heck does Israel get to be a nuclear armed state that is a killing machine and Palestinians are literally castrated?

If this is not apartheid and colonialism then what is?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HAMAS is a death-cult.

They literally want to die in order to become martyrs.

The AUDACITY of a ZIONIST calling someone else but THEMSELF a death cult. Your policies kill innocent children

every.single.day.

My close American friend just got back from Gaza where he volunteered as a doctor for a couple of weeks. He received multiple victims with gunshots to the head from food aid traps. He video taped it! Mostly children and teenagers.

Zionists want “Chaim” for themselves and death to everybody who resists the outright thievery of their homes.

You dodged the question.

It’s true that Hamas slaughtered over a thousand civilians (including attacking a civilian music festival) and continues to hold hostages, which is a flagrant human right abuse. Hamas is a designated terrorist organization.

Don’t you agree with these simple facts? (I’m not interested in your childish what-aboutisms. Do you agree or not?).

DP. Most of the evidence suggests that the majority of Israeli civilians deaths on Oct7 were result of IDF tank and artillery fire. The area in which Oct7 happened is moderate and a stronghold of opposition against Netanyahu. One of the few areas in the country like that. It seems very convenient that this area had troops moved to other areas of Israel before the attack, the IDF showed little concern for civilians collateral damage and Israel has done nothing to get the hostages taken from the area back.

I mean, what? Are you serious? Whatever else you think about this situation, that is just absolutely dishonest nonsense. Hamas owns every one of those deaths, they filmed them, they broadcast them, they shared them with the world. Even the Arab states acknowledge Hamas killed over a thousand people on 10/7, it's not up for debate. If you are going to start an argument with such absolute revisionist history and BS, then nothing else you say is worth listening to.

And full disclosure, I lost several friends at Kibbutz Nir Oz. I don't support the current Israeli governement's handling of the his war, nor do most of my Israeli friends and family members. But I will not stay silent in the face of such absolute dishonesty about what happened that day.

The information will come out but it will take years because Bibi is going nowhere. The type of light weapon Hamas had not blow the clothes off civilians or reduce buildings to rubble. There are plenty of signs of what happened and who killed who. Lots coverup and rallying to the flag by the Israelis.

The rape claims were propagated by Israeli civilians dead not having clothes on. Artillery, helicopters missiles fire and tank fire commonly will blow clothing from the victims and destroy buildings. These weapons on impact cause blast overpressure and wind blast. The blast overpressure alone kills people within 50 meters. This is not the fragmentation that extends out from there. There was a lot of collateral damage and deaths caused by the IDF. The rank and file IDF is not trained to do urban hostages rescue.

When the US Marines went in to Fallujah in 2004 estimates of Iraqi civilian deaths ranged from 271 to 731 and the US military suffered 27 deaths. The second battle of Fallujah resulted in even higher civilian casualties estimates ranging from 600 to over 800. This was with the US Marines fully prepared and briefed with strict ROE. The IDF was in full panic mode and had no ROE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Terrorists don’t surrender.

No because they feel their lives are more important than the Palestinians. They are now looting the aid coming in. Shocking.

I think given the restrictions on food and other essentials all along, looting becomes inevitable, whether it is gangs (disorganized or organized), Hamas, or whoever. You have people who are debilitated, wounded, caring for wounded or debilitated children or elders, they send the most physically capable who of course if they can join forces.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hamas IS the government of Gaza (but not the West Bank).

Hamas - a designated terrorist organization- runs all education and schools in Gaza.

Here is the education provided to all children in Gaza:

OMFG. Who would intentionally do such atrocious things to the minds of their own children?!?!

Absolute monsters!

https://www.calcalistech.com/ctech/articles/0,7340,L-3767542,00.html

2019 article appearing on Israel’s CTech technology news site: “Fun and Games and Shooting Down Enemy Planes”, in which we are told that, in Israel, the “new trend in summertime fun is military-themed summer camps and courses”.

Forget swimming and cookouts; Israeli kids can now spend their summer holidays in a “state-of-the-art F16 fighter jet simulator developed by American aerospace manufacturer Lockheed Martin”. They can “recreate the 1981 Israeli air strike that destroyed an Iraqi nuclear reactor near Baghdad”, participate in “boot camp” at a paintball field with a “special set designed for urban warfare: densely-built houses, burned vehicles, and sniper posts”, or enrol in “counterterrorism 101” and “aggression training”.

Or, they can “train in thwarting cyberattacks and other skills that could help them secure a place at [Israeli cyber spy agency] Unit 8200 and other top cyberwarfare units when they reach enlistment age”. According to an instructor interviewed for the article, “each one of the kids participating in the summer programme already knows how to block someone from getting online”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hamas IS the government of Gaza (but not the West Bank).

Hamas - a designated terrorist organization- runs all education and schools in Gaza.

Here is the education provided to all children in Gaza:

OMFG. Who would intentionally do such atrocious things to the minds of their own children?!?!

Absolute monsters!

When you are fighting genocidal nazis like Israel you have to do extreme things.