PSA- Yes, you are a jerk if you don't invite your older parents to Christmas

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So much imagined “abuse” reimagined these days, with the help of social media. It’s such an effective conversation ender !! (Hey Emily, why don’t you ever see your - - - Just stop right there, Caitlin. I cut off my ____ because s/he ABUSED ME!!!!! Caitlin: oh.)

And the possibilities are endless when absolutely everything now qualifies as “abuse” and its running buddy, “violence.”

Yes!!! Exactly. There are no perfect parents. Under the new lens, everybody can look back and revisit the horrific abuse and violence they suffered because nobody had a proper childhood and nobody was a perfect parent or a perfect parent now. I hope my beautiful children are never infected with this insidious poison And instead have a relationship with us like we have with my parents and in-laws. I am the previous poster, whose parents suffered a lot with alcoholism and other horrible issues, but they were able to heal and move on and so was I and we have an amazing relationship that enriches the lives of my children in my life. Thankful.

There are no perfect parents but if your kids get to adulthood and don't want to spend time with you, or if they do want to spend time with you but don't want to do it over Christmas, and your response is to freak out and call them selfish jerks, then you have an unhealthy relationship dynamic and that's on you.

You don't need to be able to claim abuse or trauma to just be like "ugh, spending time with these people makes me miserable." Some of you are advocating for people to just trudge through family obligations every single holiday season purely out of obligation. I think a lot of people do this and then one day wake up and say "wait, why?"

I limit time with my dad in part because he is so unbelievably rude to me. He barely talks to me, takes zero interest in my life, doesn't remember basic facts about me. He will literally turn his back to me to talk to my DH because he thinks men are interesting and women aren't. I don't consider myself traumatized by this -- I just don't like it. I also hate the message it sends to my DD, who he also takes no interest in. For my sake and hers, I choose not to share holidays with him. I haven't cut him out of my life, I just don't ruin my own holidays by subjecting myself to this treatment just so he can feel included.

If he wanted lots of holiday invites, he might have taken any of the feedback he's received in the last 60 years about his behavior from a variety of people including me, and made an effort to become a more kind and agreeable person, at least to his daughter. He didn't make that effort, so why should I pay for it? See you next summer, Dad.

[Anonymous]

You can forgive parents for their faults, move on and heal, have a good relationship AND still not spend Christmas with your parents! Stop projecting that someone that doesn’t invite their parents to Christmas doesn’t love or care about them. I don’t spend every Christmas with my parents and it has nothing to do with the quality of our relationship. I love them and spend quality time with them at many points throughout the year. Christmas is one day out of the year that has been so overhyped on its meaning. The fact that anyone would accuse someone of being a jerk for not spending the day with extended family means they lack maturity and self awareness.

[Anonymous]

Dear old people. Stay in a hotel. Stay in a hotel. Stay in a hotel. You'll get invited back a lot more. And yes, most of you can afford some level of a hotel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The problem with this scenario (both of them) is that it becomes normal to always be "just the nuclear family"--and one day you won't be part of that. Then you'll be spending Christmas along while your kids do what you grew up doing, and what they grew up with. That's fine if that's what you want, but many of us do not.

We have to get used to the fact that a nuclear family indeed dissolves. You cannot force yourself on your kids' nuclear families. You may need to find other things to do, the same as some do Friendsgiving etc. Christmas is for kids and everybody else should be mature enough to have a more holistic approach. Spending it alone is a time to reflect and there's nothing wrong with that. A lot of people spend holidays alone.

This is the work the Boomers don't want to do. Why should they have to adjust their needs ever?

The healthy Boomers in my life are ok with spending Christmas morning alone. The unhealthy ones are still alone, they are just not ok with it. Guess whose happier?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Dear old people. Stay in a hotel. Stay in a hotel. Stay in a hotel. You'll get invited back a lot more. And yes, most of you can afford some level of a hotel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A few hours? More like they spend 4 days and nights as our houseguests, making things difficult and generally making me dread Christmas. Not this year, sorry. They have 3 other grown children they can spread the love this year and visit one of them for once.

You’re an adult and can say not to hosting for four days. It doesn’t mean you can’t offer up your home for Christmas brunch. Use your words and be firm about what the invite entails.

This assumes people live close enough to just come for brunch. Or can afford to stay in a hotel and will entertain themselves while you do things you'd prefer to do with just your nuclear family, or do traditions they cannot or will not engage in.

Both my parents and ILs live too far away to just come over for one meal. If they come, we are 100% hosting them for a minimum of 3 days -- every meal, entertainment, accommodations in our house, etc. It means my kids having to be on "grandparent behavior" the entire time.

We always travel for Thanksgiving specifically because we want to spend Christmas at home, just us. I think a lot of families make this compromise.

When I was a kid we always spent Christmas at home. I can only think of two Christmases when my grandmother was present and it was just her (her husband died long before I was born) and she only spent Christmas Eve with us and then went to my aunt's house where she spend Christmas morning -- no one just hosted her for the entire holiday.

The problem with this scenario (both of them) is that it becomes normal to always be "just the nuclear family"--and one day you won't be part of that. Then you'll be spending Christmas along while your kids do what you grew up doing, and what they grew up with. That's fine if that's what you want, but many of us do not.

So, even though your kids want to stay home and enjoy Christmas with their own kids, they should invite the extended family, because that is what the grandparents want???? Why are their wants more important than anyone else’s?

It is also not about “what’s normal”, it’s about what individual couples want to do. For some, that means spending it with extended family, for others it means spending it with nuclear family only. Even if you model spending time with extended family Christmas to your children, it doesn’t mean they will want the same thing as you. Their married life may be completely different than yours. Part of being a parent to adult children is respecting their values and individual choices, even when they differ from yours or how they were raised.

I haven’t spent Christmas with my parents in many years for a variety of reasons (mostly bc I wanted my kids to wake up on Christmas in their own home). They don’t live nearby. They never complained or whined. I invited them this year (I paid for their tickets) and genuinely want to see them, host them, and make memories this Christmas. I’m actually thrilled they are coming and I attribute it to the fact that they respected my choices and values.

Would you rather have regular forced holidays with family that are done out of obligation and guilt or have your kids invite you because they genuinely want to spend time with you?

where exactly was that written? sounds like you are projecting like crazy. Or perhaps just the latter.

That is what the entire thread is about. The OP criticizes anyone that doesn’t invite their elderly parents to spend Christmas with them. For many, they would rather spend it at home with their own kids. The PP didn’t want the practice of people spending Christmas only with nuclear family to become normalized because it would mean they would have to spend Christmas alone when their kids grow up and they don’t like that idea.

As a kid the best part of Christmas was getting together with the extended family and having a big party. Christmas Day with just my parents was always a bit anticlimactic and boring. I think you overestimate how much time your kids want to spend with you.

How self centered you are to assume that everyone feels the same way. Narcissist much?

[Anonymous]

Just made my Christmas visit to my mother in another state, two weeks before the actual day. I’m not sure why I go at all, but I can’t bring myself to cut ties. She was abusive to all of us, as children, as adults, physically and psychologically, and i won’t subject my children to her cruelty. Judge away, but if you haven’t been there, you just can’t understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Even worse than the OPs are all the commenters who pretend that the 26th or 27th are just as good as the 24th or 25th (except when it comes to their side of the family, of course).

It's so clear who the people are that no one wants to spend time with...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even worse than the OPs are all the commenters who pretend that the 26th or 27th are just as good as the 24th or 25th (except when it comes to their side of the family, of course).

The people who care that much about the 24th or 25th are so uptight.

The date matters. We celebrate the birth of Jesus, the ultimate day in the history of mankind. It’s special and holy.

Except that you don't actually know that Jesus was born on December 25th, so...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even worse than the OPs are all the commenters who pretend that the 26th or 27th are just as good as the 24th or 25th (except when it comes to their side of the family, of course).

The people who care that much about the 24th or 25th are so uptight.

The date matters. We celebrate the birth of Jesus, the ultimate day in the history of mankind. It’s special and holy.

Except that you don't actually know that Jesus was born on December 25th, so...

As someone who had a parent who sometimes had ER shifts on Christmas, this whole "25th or nothing else" is hilarious. I learned that 26th Christmas worked just fine at age 5.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even worse than the OPs are all the commenters who pretend that the 26th or 27th are just as good as the 24th or 25th (except when it comes to their side of the family, of course).

It's just a day, like any other day. You know Jesus wasn't actually born on this day, right? A lovely day with family is a lovely day with family.

And yet, never a post where someone says they'll do the 25th with their MIL and do their own family thing on the 27th, because it's just a date.

I absolutely did that when we lived closer to the in-laws. They had more cousins on their side so they got priority on Christmas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So much imagined “abuse” reimagined these days, with the help of social media. It’s such an effective conversation ender !! (Hey Emily, why don’t you ever see your - - - Just stop right there, Caitlin. I cut off my ____ because s/he ABUSED ME!!!!! Caitlin: oh.)

And the possibilities are endless when absolutely everything now qualifies as “abuse” and its running buddy, “violence.”

Yes!!! Exactly. There are no perfect parents. Under the new lens, everybody can look back and revisit the horrific abuse and violence they suffered because nobody had a proper childhood and nobody was a perfect parent or a perfect parent now. I hope my beautiful children are never infected with this insidious poison And instead have a relationship with us like we have with my parents and in-laws. I am the previous poster, whose parents suffered a lot with alcoholism and other horrible issues, but they were able to heal and move on and so was I and we have an amazing relationship that enriches the lives of my children in my life. Thankful.

Uhhhhh I had a great childhood without any abuse. So no, not everybody "can look back" and find horrific abuse.

I still don't hang out on Xmas morning with my parents. But they are healthy and well adjusted so they don't mind seeing us either later, or another day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am so grateful my parents don't insist we travel to them or they travel to us during the holidays. Being able to see them at less stressful (and, yes, cheaper) times is a gift.

+1000

And I can't imagine doing anything differently for my own kids. I have two, so it'll be interesting to see where they land and what their families look like, but I can't fathom that we wouldn't want to accommodate whatever worked best for them. The whole goal is spending quality time together, not forcing people into spending a specific day with people. I'm grateful my parents felt the same when I was a kid because we had the best holidays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even worse than the OPs are all the commenters who pretend that the 26th or 27th are just as good as the 24th or 25th (except when it comes to their side of the family, of course).

The OP of one thread today specified she's seeing her parents on the 24th, and she doesn't want to see her in-laws on the 25th. Seems reasonable in this context to offer the 26th. I did not see a recent thread where OPs were truly unfair to their in-laws.

I’m the OP of that thread and don’t appreciate you twisting and leaving out details to suit this thread.

As I said in that thread, we have hosted ILs for years. This year, my FIL was a jerk to my DH and they haven’t spoken since October. Subsequently, I made usual plans with my family on the 24th, because we never visit my family on the 25th, that’s typically reserved for ILs. But this year, since my FIL is a jerk and hasn’t spoken to us, I think it’s time to set the 25th aside and forge our own traditions for once.

Don’t twist my words. Also, don’t be a jerk to your kids and you won’t be in this situation.

Psst - the PP was actually on your side...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious. We have all read about the significant number of GenX kids cutting off their parents. I read an NYT article recently and to me, the person who wrote that book is conducting malpractice. In the case of actual abuse, I am sorry, but it seems like the younger generations never learned grace or to accept that their parents were humans and imperfect. I still have young ones, and love spending time with my parents--yes, even my conservative, annoying mother, so haven't had kids go no-contact yet. But the way things are going, it will probably happen some day. It's so sad to me.

I’ll bite.

My mother became pregnant at 19 during a summer internship in California. She never told the guy. She didn’t want to have to be bothered with the logistics of custody and the other parent on the other side of the country. My grandparents died when I was a child, so I can’t ask them, but considering we lived with them on and off, I assume they supported this.

My mother gets all the glory for how hard things were for her being a “single mother”. She worked nights, so I was left home alone and was often hungry and scared. When she would lose her jobs, we’d flee in the night to my grandparents, where my mother would use their babysitting as an opportunity to go out and do drugs and guys. She was arrested for shoplifting when I was around 10. I was shuttled between random people’s houses that summer while my mom was in jail. I was exposed to things and situations that no child should be exposed to.

As an adult, I can’t help but wonder if my life would have been more stable had I lived with my father. It may have been worse, but there’s an equal chance it could have been better. Either way, there’s a 50/50 chance my mother would have had more money from child support, and a 50/50 chance I would have had somewhere stable to live when my mom was in jail. Or during summer breaks. Or holiday breaks. Or just routinely. I’ll never know.

My mother is in her 70s now and has always been stuck at 19. She’s immature and rude and just ornery. She makes my life a living hell.

And no, her decisions when I was a minor child do not deserve grace. And she wasn’t just imperfect, she was willingly imperfect and selfish, to my detriment.

I totally get that. But at some point, you owe it to the little girl that suffered so much to get over it, forgive your mom, heal, and move forward. Healing from the trauma is one of the labors of your life. You need to roll your sleeves up and get on witu the hard work so you can have a life?

I know you mean well, but for some of us the healing is in finally learning after a lifetime of manipulation and abuse to say no more. Some of us didn’t have parents who “raised our asses.” Scolding by people who could never understand is just adding insult to injury.