Held back but gifted, is this frowned upon?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I only held back when my child was socially immature and in concert with her preK teachers. She’s done very well since then. I’d never hold back a gifted child as I’d be focused on making sure he or she could thrive.

Lol! My child’s PreK teacher suggested repeating. Same ridiculous abstract reason-“socially immature.” I refused and knew this was just a thoughtless and lazy “reason” that is thrown around for convenience.
Years later, his gpa very high is and he thriving and is in a leadership role.
The PreK teacher was profoundly wrong and so is yours.

I have a gifted kid who was very young for her grade (1 day before the cutoff) and socially immature but went on time. Kindergarten was a disaster. She hated all of the desk work, would get wiggly and disruptive and be sent to the principal's office daily. She came to distrust teachers and considered herself a bad kid because she was always in trouble. She hated school and cried herself to sleep every night and then sobbed all the next morning about having to go to school where the teachers hated her. She had trouble resolving problems with friends and spent a lot of time upset. It was really, really terrible. It's so hard seeing your sweet kid crumble and seem themselves a bad person and morn their loss of time to "just play." We were very lucky that she had an excellent 1st grade teacher who started to heal the trauma from the prior year. She was still wiggly and immature but the teacher gave her classroom jobs to keep her busy and put her on group projects only with kids she knew would be a good fit. Then covid hit and she was home for 1.5 years. By the time she was back a lot of the wiggly immaturity was gone, but then we got hit with mean girl dynamics and social engineering and bullying. She's still immature and struggles socially. All of her friends are well into puberty and she hasn't started at all yet. Academically she has 100% scores in every middle school class (or higher if there's extra credit), takes all honors and accelerated classes, but really should be a grade back socially. And no, she doesn't have ADHD or anything diagnosable. It's maturity.

Your preK teacher may have been wrong, but social maturity is a real thing and it can be awful if a kid really isn't ready for kindergarten but is forced.

This sounds more like behavioral issues and sounds like you didn’t model social skills for her if she struggled this much. A lot of times the parents of kids who are testing high ignore teaching and modeling the skills that will actually bring success and happiness as an adult. Work on EQ. It’s going to make no difference if she’s 99 percent in anything if she can’t make and keep relationships and cooperate with others.

Oh boy. I promise you that EQ has been a focus her whole life. It's like me asking why your 50th percentile math student isn't getting 99th percentile scores?!? Don't you practice math with them? Kids have different strengths and weaknesses. Developmentally they arrive at different skills at different times. She's a kid who was walking at 8.5 months, climping the big slide at the playground and going down independently at 10 months and going on 2+ mile bike rides at 3 yo. She was reading chapter books at 4 yo. But the social stuff is a bit behind. It always has been. She eventually gets there, but when she gets to it. Kids come as they come and you can't force them to be who you want them to be.

She went to a very well respected preschool for the two years before kindergarten. That's how kids typically learn classroom skills. She had some skills, but was not ready for the pace of kindergarten day. She really just needed more free playtime, more playground time, and less desk time--just like the schedule she had in pre-K, which shouldn't be super surprising as she was still 4 yo for the beginning of kindergarten.

She's not very far outside of norms, but she is the very youngest in her grade. So when she's around all older kids she seems especially young. She would be totally average behavior and maturity wise for the class below.

Social maturity is a real thing. That's all I'm saying.

I can just tell what kind of mom you are by what you posted. Not many people talk like that … walked at 8.5 months.. I can’t even remember when my kids first walked let alone the 2 week mark. You sound really competitive about this stuff. I bet she struggles socially because you do and you’re not modeling the right behavior that makes her a likable kid. It’s not normal to have that many behavioral issues. Both of my children and myself were youngest in the grade and had zero issues. You bring up the percentiles for math. I’ll give an example. My son was in 30 percentile all through K and I started working with him 10 min a day with an online program and he’s in the 95 now in 1st based on testing first semester. So yes I absolutely believe you can supplement especially early elementary and that’s often what you see with testing, kids who receive supplemental help from a parent or had a really strong teacher.

Yeah, I think you're missing the impact of asymmetrical development. It stands out when kids do things very out of order--that's why I remember. Beginning as a baby she had some big gaps (language and frustration tolerance) and things that were off the charts ahead all at the same time. Those gaps eventually narrowed, but she came a certain way.

She had no actual behavioral issues by the second half of kindergarten and hasn't gotten in trouble since. But she also found holding it together in kindergarten to be extremely emotionally exhausting, and really struggled with expectations. It also doesn't mean that she doesn't struggle socially now and is often frustrated and sad, especially when kids gang up or she doesn't get the joke. She gets along best with kids a year younger and all her friends are on the youngest side in her class.

I mean, if age and maturity don't matter, why don't all the Sept and October birthday parents just push their kids ahead? Surely they'll be just fine if they just practice EQ and study more, right? They don't because maturity matters. And it's not something you can just teach or force any more so than you could have taught or forced your 9 mo to walk.

Look I'm not going to diagnose a stranger online, but I really hope you have gotten a neuropsych evaluation by now.

-pediatric mental health professional

Troll.

Np. Why would that be a troll?

I have a neurodivergent, young for their grade, gifted child too. The pp with a child who has social problems seems to be writing off big red flags, and it’s not clear that she’s actually had a neuropsych done before coming to the conclusion that it’s simply “immaturity.” Having an evaluation done can help give her a better framework for understanding and helping her child.

If you trust the evaluator. I’m not sure I would. The push to meds for young-for-grade kids is real and well-documented.

You're the only person on this thread who's mentioned meds. Maybe you should take yours?

Your unwarranted personal attack is noted. Since you are incapable of rational discussion, I’ll leave a link to a meta article discussing the issue from NPR.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/11/28/671614909/youngest-children-in-a-class-are-most-likely-to-get-adhd-diagnosis

I could provide links to the many worldwide studies that replicate the phenomenon as well (I have read them all), but I am not sure you have the numerical analysis background to get through the dense statistical analysis involved, so I would just start with an article from NPR.

Again, you are the only person talking about medication! That's not what evaluations are for! I'm glad you are on a crusade against medicating children, that's literally not the discussion.

You are out of your depth here, I think.

I'm a child psychologist. There are about a dozen steps between a neuropsych eval and medication. OT, IEPs, 504s, therapy, ABA, social skills groups, parent coaching, talk therapy etc etc etc. To say an evaluation is used solely for medication is incorrect. There are many reasons PP should be pursuing one, none of which have to do with medication.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I only held back when my child was socially immature and in concert with her preK teachers. She’s done very well since then. I’d never hold back a gifted child as I’d be focused on making sure he or she could thrive.

Lol! My child’s PreK teacher suggested repeating. Same ridiculous abstract reason-“socially immature.” I refused and knew this was just a thoughtless and lazy “reason” that is thrown around for convenience.
Years later, his gpa very high is and he thriving and is in a leadership role.
The PreK teacher was profoundly wrong and so is yours.

I have a gifted kid who was very young for her grade (1 day before the cutoff) and socially immature but went on time. Kindergarten was a disaster. She hated all of the desk work, would get wiggly and disruptive and be sent to the principal's office daily. She came to distrust teachers and considered herself a bad kid because she was always in trouble. She hated school and cried herself to sleep every night and then sobbed all the next morning about having to go to school where the teachers hated her. She had trouble resolving problems with friends and spent a lot of time upset. It was really, really terrible. It's so hard seeing your sweet kid crumble and seem themselves a bad person and morn their loss of time to "just play." We were very lucky that she had an excellent 1st grade teacher who started to heal the trauma from the prior year. She was still wiggly and immature but the teacher gave her classroom jobs to keep her busy and put her on group projects only with kids she knew would be a good fit. Then covid hit and she was home for 1.5 years. By the time she was back a lot of the wiggly immaturity was gone, but then we got hit with mean girl dynamics and social engineering and bullying. She's still immature and struggles socially. All of her friends are well into puberty and she hasn't started at all yet. Academically she has 100% scores in every middle school class (or higher if there's extra credit), takes all honors and accelerated classes, but really should be a grade back socially. And no, she doesn't have ADHD or anything diagnosable. It's maturity.

Your preK teacher may have been wrong, but social maturity is a real thing and it can be awful if a kid really isn't ready for kindergarten but is forced.

This sounds more like behavioral issues and sounds like you didn’t model social skills for her if she struggled this much. A lot of times the parents of kids who are testing high ignore teaching and modeling the skills that will actually bring success and happiness as an adult. Work on EQ. It’s going to make no difference if she’s 99 percent in anything if she can’t make and keep relationships and cooperate with others.

Oh boy. I promise you that EQ has been a focus her whole life. It's like me asking why your 50th percentile math student isn't getting 99th percentile scores?!? Don't you practice math with them? Kids have different strengths and weaknesses. Developmentally they arrive at different skills at different times. She's a kid who was walking at 8.5 months, climping the big slide at the playground and going down independently at 10 months and going on 2+ mile bike rides at 3 yo. She was reading chapter books at 4 yo. But the social stuff is a bit behind. It always has been. She eventually gets there, but when she gets to it. Kids come as they come and you can't force them to be who you want them to be.

She went to a very well respected preschool for the two years before kindergarten. That's how kids typically learn classroom skills. She had some skills, but was not ready for the pace of kindergarten day. She really just needed more free playtime, more playground time, and less desk time--just like the schedule she had in pre-K, which shouldn't be super surprising as she was still 4 yo for the beginning of kindergarten.

She's not very far outside of norms, but she is the very youngest in her grade. So when she's around all older kids she seems especially young. She would be totally average behavior and maturity wise for the class below.

Social maturity is a real thing. That's all I'm saying.

I can just tell what kind of mom you are by what you posted. Not many people talk like that … walked at 8.5 months.. I can’t even remember when my kids first walked let alone the 2 week mark. You sound really competitive about this stuff. I bet she struggles socially because you do and you’re not modeling the right behavior that makes her a likable kid. It’s not normal to have that many behavioral issues. Both of my children and myself were youngest in the grade and had zero issues. You bring up the percentiles for math. I’ll give an example. My son was in 30 percentile all through K and I started working with him 10 min a day with an online program and he’s in the 95 now in 1st based on testing first semester. So yes I absolutely believe you can supplement especially early elementary and that’s often what you see with testing, kids who receive supplemental help from a parent or had a really strong teacher.

Yeah, I think you're missing the impact of asymmetrical development. It stands out when kids do things very out of order--that's why I remember. Beginning as a baby she had some big gaps (language and frustration tolerance) and things that were off the charts ahead all at the same time. Those gaps eventually narrowed, but she came a certain way.

She had no actual behavioral issues by the second half of kindergarten and hasn't gotten in trouble since. But she also found holding it together in kindergarten to be extremely emotionally exhausting, and really struggled with expectations. It also doesn't mean that she doesn't struggle socially now and is often frustrated and sad, especially when kids gang up or she doesn't get the joke. She gets along best with kids a year younger and all her friends are on the youngest side in her class.

I mean, if age and maturity don't matter, why don't all the Sept and October birthday parents just push their kids ahead? Surely they'll be just fine if they just practice EQ and study more, right? They don't because maturity matters. And it's not something you can just teach or force any more so than you could have taught or forced your 9 mo to walk.

Look I'm not going to diagnose a stranger online, but I really hope you have gotten a neuropsych evaluation by now.

-pediatric mental health professional

Troll.

Np. Why would that be a troll?

I have a neurodivergent, young for their grade, gifted child too. The pp with a child who has social problems seems to be writing off big red flags, and it’s not clear that she’s actually had a neuropsych done before coming to the conclusion that it’s simply “immaturity.” Having an evaluation done can help give her a better framework for understanding and helping her child.

If you trust the evaluator. I’m not sure I would. The push to meds for young-for-grade kids is real and well-documented.

You're the only person on this thread who's mentioned meds. Maybe you should take yours?

Not the pp but you have to be living under a rock to not know that children being medicated is underutilized.

Ok but what does that have to do with what we're talking about? Or do you think that an eval means meds? That's not what an evaluation is for. All you are doing is showing you have no idea what you're talking about.

I think it is quite obviously you who is out of her depth, as shown by your immediate and vicious personal attack a few posts back.

You don’t seem to understand the pipeline issues involved, or the massively higher likelihood of medicalized treatment for ADHD for kids who are young for grade.

So your answer is for kids to just never be evaluated on the slim chance they might be medicated? Do you hear yourself?

[Anonymous]

You can bet your bottom dollar that a neuropsych is needed

[Anonymous]

My son is in 4th and in his grade and the 3rd grade as well, there are A LOT of old for grade/redshirted kids (largely due to people holding their kids back during Covid due to not wanting to do virtual kindergarten). The gifted program for these 2 grades is also much larger than for other grades. Go figure. 😂

I think the kids being older definitely factors into the larger numbers of kids in the gifted program but I think it may also co-relate to kids having more time at home/with parents in those key years of pre-k and k. At least for my son (who went to school on time so is not redshirted) I think he really benefited academically (not socially, of course) from being homeschooled during Covid because my DH and I were able to work 1-1 with him on things and read to him a lot…I know this obviously wasn’t the case for a lot of kids but for kids in our area/our school I am guessing it was true of a lot of kids in my child’s cohort who tend to have very involved parents. May contribute to the academic success of this particular group of kids. (There are 60 kids in his grade and 1/3 of them are in the gifted program!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son is in 4th and in his grade and the 3rd grade as well, there are A LOT of old for grade/redshirted kids (largely due to people holding their kids back during Covid due to not wanting to do virtual kindergarten). The gifted program for these 2 grades is also much larger than for other grades. Go figure. 😂

I think the kids being older definitely factors into the larger numbers of kids in the gifted program but I think it may also co-relate to kids having more time at home/with parents in those key years of pre-k and k. At least for my son (who went to school on time so is not redshirted) I think he really benefited academically (not socially, of course) from being homeschooled during Covid because my DH and I were able to work 1-1 with him on things and read to him a lot…I know this obviously wasn’t the case for a lot of kids but for kids in our area/our school I am guessing it was true of a lot of kids in my child’s cohort who tend to have very involved parents. May contribute to the academic success of this particular group of kids. (There are 60 kids in his grade and 1/3 of them are in the gifted program!)

The redshirt moms are like the boymoms are like the anticircumcision mama bears and from their poor writing skills, it’s probably a few posters who are all 3 things. They are damaged, dumb, and are obsessed with trying to advantage their boys in the earliest stages and grades in ways that wind up being very zero sum to a deeply antisocial degree. That proportion of G&T is crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I only held back when my child was socially immature and in concert with her preK teachers. She’s done very well since then. I’d never hold back a gifted child as I’d be focused on making sure he or she could thrive.

Lol! My child’s PreK teacher suggested repeating. Same ridiculous abstract reason-“socially immature.” I refused and knew this was just a thoughtless and lazy “reason” that is thrown around for convenience.
Years later, his gpa very high is and he thriving and is in a leadership role.
The PreK teacher was profoundly wrong and so is yours.

I have a gifted kid who was very young for her grade (1 day before the cutoff) and socially immature but went on time. Kindergarten was a disaster. She hated all of the desk work, would get wiggly and disruptive and be sent to the principal's office daily. She came to distrust teachers and considered herself a bad kid because she was always in trouble. She hated school and cried herself to sleep every night and then sobbed all the next morning about having to go to school where the teachers hated her. She had trouble resolving problems with friends and spent a lot of time upset. It was really, really terrible. It's so hard seeing your sweet kid crumble and seem themselves a bad person and morn their loss of time to "just play." We were very lucky that she had an excellent 1st grade teacher who started to heal the trauma from the prior year. She was still wiggly and immature but the teacher gave her classroom jobs to keep her busy and put her on group projects only with kids she knew would be a good fit. Then covid hit and she was home for 1.5 years. By the time she was back a lot of the wiggly immaturity was gone, but then we got hit with mean girl dynamics and social engineering and bullying. She's still immature and struggles socially. All of her friends are well into puberty and she hasn't started at all yet. Academically she has 100% scores in every middle school class (or higher if there's extra credit), takes all honors and accelerated classes, but really should be a grade back socially. And no, she doesn't have ADHD or anything diagnosable. It's maturity.

Your preK teacher may have been wrong, but social maturity is a real thing and it can be awful if a kid really isn't ready for kindergarten but is forced.

This sounds more like behavioral issues and sounds like you didn’t model social skills for her if she struggled this much. A lot of times the parents of kids who are testing high ignore teaching and modeling the skills that will actually bring success and happiness as an adult. Work on EQ. It’s going to make no difference if she’s 99 percent in anything if she can’t make and keep relationships and cooperate with others.

Oh boy. I promise you that EQ has been a focus her whole life. It's like me asking why your 50th percentile math student isn't getting 99th percentile scores?!? Don't you practice math with them? Kids have different strengths and weaknesses. Developmentally they arrive at different skills at different times. She's a kid who was walking at 8.5 months, climping the big slide at the playground and going down independently at 10 months and going on 2+ mile bike rides at 3 yo. She was reading chapter books at 4 yo. But the social stuff is a bit behind. It always has been. She eventually gets there, but when she gets to it. Kids come as they come and you can't force them to be who you want them to be.

She went to a very well respected preschool for the two years before kindergarten. That's how kids typically learn classroom skills. She had some skills, but was not ready for the pace of kindergarten day. She really just needed more free playtime, more playground time, and less desk time--just like the schedule she had in pre-K, which shouldn't be super surprising as she was still 4 yo for the beginning of kindergarten.

She's not very far outside of norms, but she is the very youngest in her grade. So when she's around all older kids she seems especially young. She would be totally average behavior and maturity wise for the class below.

Social maturity is a real thing. That's all I'm saying.

I can just tell what kind of mom you are by what you posted. Not many people talk like that … walked at 8.5 months.. I can’t even remember when my kids first walked let alone the 2 week mark. You sound really competitive about this stuff. I bet she struggles socially because you do and you’re not modeling the right behavior that makes her a likable kid. It’s not normal to have that many behavioral issues. Both of my children and myself were youngest in the grade and had zero issues. You bring up the percentiles for math. I’ll give an example. My son was in 30 percentile all through K and I started working with him 10 min a day with an online program and he’s in the 95 now in 1st based on testing first semester. So yes I absolutely believe you can supplement especially early elementary and that’s often what you see with testing, kids who receive supplemental help from a parent or had a really strong teacher.

Yeah, I think you're missing the impact of asymmetrical development. It stands out when kids do things very out of order--that's why I remember. Beginning as a baby she had some big gaps (language and frustration tolerance) and things that were off the charts ahead all at the same time. Those gaps eventually narrowed, but she came a certain way.

She had no actual behavioral issues by the second half of kindergarten and hasn't gotten in trouble since. But she also found holding it together in kindergarten to be extremely emotionally exhausting, and really struggled with expectations. It also doesn't mean that she doesn't struggle socially now and is often frustrated and sad, especially when kids gang up or she doesn't get the joke. She gets along best with kids a year younger and all her friends are on the youngest side in her class.

I mean, if age and maturity don't matter, why don't all the Sept and October birthday parents just push their kids ahead? Surely they'll be just fine if they just practice EQ and study more, right? They don't because maturity matters. And it's not something you can just teach or force any more so than you could have taught or forced your 9 mo to walk.

Look I'm not going to diagnose a stranger online, but I really hope you have gotten a neuropsych evaluation by now.

-pediatric mental health professional

Troll.

Np. Why would that be a troll?

I have a neurodivergent, young for their grade, gifted child too. The pp with a child who has social problems seems to be writing off big red flags, and it’s not clear that she’s actually had a neuropsych done before coming to the conclusion that it’s simply “immaturity.” Having an evaluation done can help give her a better framework for understanding and helping her child.

If you trust the evaluator. I’m not sure I would. The push to meds for young-for-grade kids is real and well-documented.

You're the only person on this thread who's mentioned meds. Maybe you should take yours?

Your unwarranted personal attack is noted. Since you are incapable of rational discussion, I’ll leave a link to a meta article discussing the issue from NPR.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/11/28/671614909/youngest-children-in-a-class-are-most-likely-to-get-adhd-diagnosis

I could provide links to the many worldwide studies that replicate the phenomenon as well (I have read them all), but I am not sure you have the numerical analysis background to get through the dense statistical analysis involved, so I would just start with an article from NPR.

Again, you are the only person talking about medication! That's not what evaluations are for! I'm glad you are on a crusade against medicating children, that's literally not the discussion.

You are out of your depth here, I think.

I'm a child psychologist. There are about a dozen steps between a neuropsych eval and medication. OT, IEPs, 504s, therapy, ABA, social skills groups, parent coaching, talk therapy etc etc etc. To say an evaluation is used solely for medication is incorrect. There are many reasons PP should be pursuing one, none of which have to do with medication.

Nobody said an evaluation is used solely for medication. And I’m quite familiar with all the steps involved. I’m also very familiar with what happens once a school gets its hands on the outcome of that evaluation.

I’m also very familiar with the shockingly high level of power people like you hold over families, and would counsel any parent to be quite cautious about engaging in an evaluation. You don’t seem to be aware of some of the abuses perpetrated by your profession on vulnerable kids.

And before you attack me and my kids personally, as you seem inclined to do, I know all of this not because of my own kids but because I’ve been an advocate for working class non-English-speaking families in the school system for years. You can’t snow me, in other words, no matter how much you attack me personally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I only held back when my child was socially immature and in concert with her preK teachers. She’s done very well since then. I’d never hold back a gifted child as I’d be focused on making sure he or she could thrive.

Lol! My child’s PreK teacher suggested repeating. Same ridiculous abstract reason-“socially immature.” I refused and knew this was just a thoughtless and lazy “reason” that is thrown around for convenience.
Years later, his gpa very high is and he thriving and is in a leadership role.
The PreK teacher was profoundly wrong and so is yours.

I have a gifted kid who was very young for her grade (1 day before the cutoff) and socially immature but went on time. Kindergarten was a disaster. She hated all of the desk work, would get wiggly and disruptive and be sent to the principal's office daily. She came to distrust teachers and considered herself a bad kid because she was always in trouble. She hated school and cried herself to sleep every night and then sobbed all the next morning about having to go to school where the teachers hated her. She had trouble resolving problems with friends and spent a lot of time upset. It was really, really terrible. It's so hard seeing your sweet kid crumble and seem themselves a bad person and morn their loss of time to "just play." We were very lucky that she had an excellent 1st grade teacher who started to heal the trauma from the prior year. She was still wiggly and immature but the teacher gave her classroom jobs to keep her busy and put her on group projects only with kids she knew would be a good fit. Then covid hit and she was home for 1.5 years. By the time she was back a lot of the wiggly immaturity was gone, but then we got hit with mean girl dynamics and social engineering and bullying. She's still immature and struggles socially. All of her friends are well into puberty and she hasn't started at all yet. Academically she has 100% scores in every middle school class (or higher if there's extra credit), takes all honors and accelerated classes, but really should be a grade back socially. And no, she doesn't have ADHD or anything diagnosable. It's maturity.

Your preK teacher may have been wrong, but social maturity is a real thing and it can be awful if a kid really isn't ready for kindergarten but is forced.

This sounds more like behavioral issues and sounds like you didn’t model social skills for her if she struggled this much. A lot of times the parents of kids who are testing high ignore teaching and modeling the skills that will actually bring success and happiness as an adult. Work on EQ. It’s going to make no difference if she’s 99 percent in anything if she can’t make and keep relationships and cooperate with others.

Oh boy. I promise you that EQ has been a focus her whole life. It's like me asking why your 50th percentile math student isn't getting 99th percentile scores?!? Don't you practice math with them? Kids have different strengths and weaknesses. Developmentally they arrive at different skills at different times. She's a kid who was walking at 8.5 months, climping the big slide at the playground and going down independently at 10 months and going on 2+ mile bike rides at 3 yo. She was reading chapter books at 4 yo. But the social stuff is a bit behind. It always has been. She eventually gets there, but when she gets to it. Kids come as they come and you can't force them to be who you want them to be.

She went to a very well respected preschool for the two years before kindergarten. That's how kids typically learn classroom skills. She had some skills, but was not ready for the pace of kindergarten day. She really just needed more free playtime, more playground time, and less desk time--just like the schedule she had in pre-K, which shouldn't be super surprising as she was still 4 yo for the beginning of kindergarten.

She's not very far outside of norms, but she is the very youngest in her grade. So when she's around all older kids she seems especially young. She would be totally average behavior and maturity wise for the class below.

Social maturity is a real thing. That's all I'm saying.

I can just tell what kind of mom you are by what you posted. Not many people talk like that … walked at 8.5 months.. I can’t even remember when my kids first walked let alone the 2 week mark. You sound really competitive about this stuff. I bet she struggles socially because you do and you’re not modeling the right behavior that makes her a likable kid. It’s not normal to have that many behavioral issues. Both of my children and myself were youngest in the grade and had zero issues. You bring up the percentiles for math. I’ll give an example. My son was in 30 percentile all through K and I started working with him 10 min a day with an online program and he’s in the 95 now in 1st based on testing first semester. So yes I absolutely believe you can supplement especially early elementary and that’s often what you see with testing, kids who receive supplemental help from a parent or had a really strong teacher.

Yeah, I think you're missing the impact of asymmetrical development. It stands out when kids do things very out of order--that's why I remember. Beginning as a baby she had some big gaps (language and frustration tolerance) and things that were off the charts ahead all at the same time. Those gaps eventually narrowed, but she came a certain way.

She had no actual behavioral issues by the second half of kindergarten and hasn't gotten in trouble since. But she also found holding it together in kindergarten to be extremely emotionally exhausting, and really struggled with expectations. It also doesn't mean that she doesn't struggle socially now and is often frustrated and sad, especially when kids gang up or she doesn't get the joke. She gets along best with kids a year younger and all her friends are on the youngest side in her class.

I mean, if age and maturity don't matter, why don't all the Sept and October birthday parents just push their kids ahead? Surely they'll be just fine if they just practice EQ and study more, right? They don't because maturity matters. And it's not something you can just teach or force any more so than you could have taught or forced your 9 mo to walk.

Look I'm not going to diagnose a stranger online, but I really hope you have gotten a neuropsych evaluation by now.

-pediatric mental health professional

Troll.

Np. Why would that be a troll?

I have a neurodivergent, young for their grade, gifted child too. The pp with a child who has social problems seems to be writing off big red flags, and it’s not clear that she’s actually had a neuropsych done before coming to the conclusion that it’s simply “immaturity.” Having an evaluation done can help give her a better framework for understanding and helping her child.

If you trust the evaluator. I’m not sure I would. The push to meds for young-for-grade kids is real and well-documented.

The attacking is definitely unnecessary from whoever is jumping on this thread.

I’m the pp from above, and hearing the descriptions upthread make me wonder about issues other than ADHD. That’s why an evaluation would be helpful. It could help shed light on what some of the issues are, and provide a starting place for figuring out those supports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is in 4th and in his grade and the 3rd grade as well, there are A LOT of old for grade/redshirted kids (largely due to people holding their kids back during Covid due to not wanting to do virtual kindergarten). The gifted program for these 2 grades is also much larger than for other grades. Go figure. 😂

I think the kids being older definitely factors into the larger numbers of kids in the gifted program but I think it may also co-relate to kids having more time at home/with parents in those key years of pre-k and k. At least for my son (who went to school on time so is not redshirted) I think he really benefited academically (not socially, of course) from being homeschooled during Covid because my DH and I were able to work 1-1 with him on things and read to him a lot…I know this obviously wasn’t the case for a lot of kids but for kids in our area/our school I am guessing it was true of a lot of kids in my child’s cohort who tend to have very involved parents. May contribute to the academic success of this particular group of kids. (There are 60 kids in his grade and 1/3 of them are in the gifted program!)

The redshirt moms are like the boymoms are like the anticircumcision mama bears and from their poor writing skills, it’s probably a few posters who are all 3 things. They are damaged, dumb, and are obsessed with trying to advantage their boys in the earliest stages and grades in ways that wind up being very zero sum to a deeply antisocial degree. That proportion of G&T is crazy.

Stop day drinking, honey.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I only held back when my child was socially immature and in concert with her preK teachers. She’s done very well since then. I’d never hold back a gifted child as I’d be focused on making sure he or she could thrive.

Lol! My child’s PreK teacher suggested repeating. Same ridiculous abstract reason-“socially immature.” I refused and knew this was just a thoughtless and lazy “reason” that is thrown around for convenience.
Years later, his gpa very high is and he thriving and is in a leadership role.
The PreK teacher was profoundly wrong and so is yours.

I have a gifted kid who was very young for her grade (1 day before the cutoff) and socially immature but went on time. Kindergarten was a disaster. She hated all of the desk work, would get wiggly and disruptive and be sent to the principal's office daily. She came to distrust teachers and considered herself a bad kid because she was always in trouble. She hated school and cried herself to sleep every night and then sobbed all the next morning about having to go to school where the teachers hated her. She had trouble resolving problems with friends and spent a lot of time upset. It was really, really terrible. It's so hard seeing your sweet kid crumble and seem themselves a bad person and morn their loss of time to "just play." We were very lucky that she had an excellent 1st grade teacher who started to heal the trauma from the prior year. She was still wiggly and immature but the teacher gave her classroom jobs to keep her busy and put her on group projects only with kids she knew would be a good fit. Then covid hit and she was home for 1.5 years. By the time she was back a lot of the wiggly immaturity was gone, but then we got hit with mean girl dynamics and social engineering and bullying. She's still immature and struggles socially. All of her friends are well into puberty and she hasn't started at all yet. Academically she has 100% scores in every middle school class (or higher if there's extra credit), takes all honors and accelerated classes, but really should be a grade back socially. And no, she doesn't have ADHD or anything diagnosable. It's maturity.

Your preK teacher may have been wrong, but social maturity is a real thing and it can be awful if a kid really isn't ready for kindergarten but is forced.

This sounds more like behavioral issues and sounds like you didn’t model social skills for her if she struggled this much. A lot of times the parents of kids who are testing high ignore teaching and modeling the skills that will actually bring success and happiness as an adult. Work on EQ. It’s going to make no difference if she’s 99 percent in anything if she can’t make and keep relationships and cooperate with others.

Oh boy. I promise you that EQ has been a focus her whole life. It's like me asking why your 50th percentile math student isn't getting 99th percentile scores?!? Don't you practice math with them? Kids have different strengths and weaknesses. Developmentally they arrive at different skills at different times. She's a kid who was walking at 8.5 months, climping the big slide at the playground and going down independently at 10 months and going on 2+ mile bike rides at 3 yo. She was reading chapter books at 4 yo. But the social stuff is a bit behind. It always has been. She eventually gets there, but when she gets to it. Kids come as they come and you can't force them to be who you want them to be.

She went to a very well respected preschool for the two years before kindergarten. That's how kids typically learn classroom skills. She had some skills, but was not ready for the pace of kindergarten day. She really just needed more free playtime, more playground time, and less desk time--just like the schedule she had in pre-K, which shouldn't be super surprising as she was still 4 yo for the beginning of kindergarten.

She's not very far outside of norms, but she is the very youngest in her grade. So when she's around all older kids she seems especially young. She would be totally average behavior and maturity wise for the class below.

Social maturity is a real thing. That's all I'm saying.

I can just tell what kind of mom you are by what you posted. Not many people talk like that … walked at 8.5 months.. I can’t even remember when my kids first walked let alone the 2 week mark. You sound really competitive about this stuff. I bet she struggles socially because you do and you’re not modeling the right behavior that makes her a likable kid. It’s not normal to have that many behavioral issues. Both of my children and myself were youngest in the grade and had zero issues. You bring up the percentiles for math. I’ll give an example. My son was in 30 percentile all through K and I started working with him 10 min a day with an online program and he’s in the 95 now in 1st based on testing first semester. So yes I absolutely believe you can supplement especially early elementary and that’s often what you see with testing, kids who receive supplemental help from a parent or had a really strong teacher.

Yeah, I think you're missing the impact of asymmetrical development. It stands out when kids do things very out of order--that's why I remember. Beginning as a baby she had some big gaps (language and frustration tolerance) and things that were off the charts ahead all at the same time. Those gaps eventually narrowed, but she came a certain way.

She had no actual behavioral issues by the second half of kindergarten and hasn't gotten in trouble since. But she also found holding it together in kindergarten to be extremely emotionally exhausting, and really struggled with expectations. It also doesn't mean that she doesn't struggle socially now and is often frustrated and sad, especially when kids gang up or she doesn't get the joke. She gets along best with kids a year younger and all her friends are on the youngest side in her class.

I mean, if age and maturity don't matter, why don't all the Sept and October birthday parents just push their kids ahead? Surely they'll be just fine if they just practice EQ and study more, right? They don't because maturity matters. And it's not something you can just teach or force any more so than you could have taught or forced your 9 mo to walk.

Look I'm not going to diagnose a stranger online, but I really hope you have gotten a neuropsych evaluation by now.

-pediatric mental health professional

Troll.

Np. Why would that be a troll?

I have a neurodivergent, young for their grade, gifted child too. The pp with a child who has social problems seems to be writing off big red flags, and it’s not clear that she’s actually had a neuropsych done before coming to the conclusion that it’s simply “immaturity.” Having an evaluation done can help give her a better framework for understanding and helping her child.

If you trust the evaluator. I’m not sure I would. The push to meds for young-for-grade kids is real and well-documented.

You're the only person on this thread who's mentioned meds. Maybe you should take yours?

Your unwarranted personal attack is noted. Since you are incapable of rational discussion, I’ll leave a link to a meta article discussing the issue from NPR.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/11/28/671614909/youngest-children-in-a-class-are-most-likely-to-get-adhd-diagnosis

I could provide links to the many worldwide studies that replicate the phenomenon as well (I have read them all), but I am not sure you have the numerical analysis background to get through the dense statistical analysis involved, so I would just start with an article from NPR.

Again, you are the only person talking about medication! That's not what evaluations are for! I'm glad you are on a crusade against medicating children, that's literally not the discussion.

You are out of your depth here, I think.

I'm a child psychologist. There are about a dozen steps between a neuropsych eval and medication. OT, IEPs, 504s, therapy, ABA, social skills groups, parent coaching, talk therapy etc etc etc. To say an evaluation is used solely for medication is incorrect. There are many reasons PP should be pursuing one, none of which have to do with medication.

Nobody said an evaluation is used solely for medication. And I’m quite familiar with all the steps involved. I’m also very familiar with what happens once a school gets its hands on the outcome of that evaluation.

I’m also very familiar with the shockingly high level of power people like you hold over families, and would counsel any parent to be quite cautious about engaging in an evaluation. You don’t seem to be aware of some of the abuses perpetrated by your profession on vulnerable kids.

And before you attack me and my kids personally, as you seem inclined to do, I know all of this not because of my own kids but because I’ve been an advocate for working class non-English-speaking families in the school system for years. You can’t snow me, in other words, no matter how much you attack me personally.

Do. Isn’t that issue easily resolved by not giving the school the report?

I gave the school our child’s report because it was helpful for them to understand our child. I did that on my own. I didn’t have to provide it. If I was concerned about misuse, I could have easily not have done so. Having the information for myself, as the parent, would still have been helpful.

[Anonymous]

So a child psychologist is the one who, when faced with mild disagreement, immediately went to a “take your meds” attack? Is that correct?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I only held back when my child was socially immature and in concert with her preK teachers. She’s done very well since then. I’d never hold back a gifted child as I’d be focused on making sure he or she could thrive.

Lol! My child’s PreK teacher suggested repeating. Same ridiculous abstract reason-“socially immature.” I refused and knew this was just a thoughtless and lazy “reason” that is thrown around for convenience.
Years later, his gpa very high is and he thriving and is in a leadership role.
The PreK teacher was profoundly wrong and so is yours.

I have a gifted kid who was very young for her grade (1 day before the cutoff) and socially immature but went on time. Kindergarten was a disaster. She hated all of the desk work, would get wiggly and disruptive and be sent to the principal's office daily. She came to distrust teachers and considered herself a bad kid because she was always in trouble. She hated school and cried herself to sleep every night and then sobbed all the next morning about having to go to school where the teachers hated her. She had trouble resolving problems with friends and spent a lot of time upset. It was really, really terrible. It's so hard seeing your sweet kid crumble and seem themselves a bad person and morn their loss of time to "just play." We were very lucky that she had an excellent 1st grade teacher who started to heal the trauma from the prior year. She was still wiggly and immature but the teacher gave her classroom jobs to keep her busy and put her on group projects only with kids she knew would be a good fit. Then covid hit and she was home for 1.5 years. By the time she was back a lot of the wiggly immaturity was gone, but then we got hit with mean girl dynamics and social engineering and bullying. She's still immature and struggles socially. All of her friends are well into puberty and she hasn't started at all yet. Academically she has 100% scores in every middle school class (or higher if there's extra credit), takes all honors and accelerated classes, but really should be a grade back socially. And no, she doesn't have ADHD or anything diagnosable. It's maturity.

Your preK teacher may have been wrong, but social maturity is a real thing and it can be awful if a kid really isn't ready for kindergarten but is forced.

This sounds more like behavioral issues and sounds like you didn’t model social skills for her if she struggled this much. A lot of times the parents of kids who are testing high ignore teaching and modeling the skills that will actually bring success and happiness as an adult. Work on EQ. It’s going to make no difference if she’s 99 percent in anything if she can’t make and keep relationships and cooperate with others.

Oh boy. I promise you that EQ has been a focus her whole life. It's like me asking why your 50th percentile math student isn't getting 99th percentile scores?!? Don't you practice math with them? Kids have different strengths and weaknesses. Developmentally they arrive at different skills at different times. She's a kid who was walking at 8.5 months, climping the big slide at the playground and going down independently at 10 months and going on 2+ mile bike rides at 3 yo. She was reading chapter books at 4 yo. But the social stuff is a bit behind. It always has been. She eventually gets there, but when she gets to it. Kids come as they come and you can't force them to be who you want them to be.

She went to a very well respected preschool for the two years before kindergarten. That's how kids typically learn classroom skills. She had some skills, but was not ready for the pace of kindergarten day. She really just needed more free playtime, more playground time, and less desk time--just like the schedule she had in pre-K, which shouldn't be super surprising as she was still 4 yo for the beginning of kindergarten.

She's not very far outside of norms, but she is the very youngest in her grade. So when she's around all older kids she seems especially young. She would be totally average behavior and maturity wise for the class below.

Social maturity is a real thing. That's all I'm saying.

I can just tell what kind of mom you are by what you posted. Not many people talk like that … walked at 8.5 months.. I can’t even remember when my kids first walked let alone the 2 week mark. You sound really competitive about this stuff. I bet she struggles socially because you do and you’re not modeling the right behavior that makes her a likable kid. It’s not normal to have that many behavioral issues. Both of my children and myself were youngest in the grade and had zero issues. You bring up the percentiles for math. I’ll give an example. My son was in 30 percentile all through K and I started working with him 10 min a day with an online program and he’s in the 95 now in 1st based on testing first semester. So yes I absolutely believe you can supplement especially early elementary and that’s often what you see with testing, kids who receive supplemental help from a parent or had a really strong teacher.

Yeah, I think you're missing the impact of asymmetrical development. It stands out when kids do things very out of order--that's why I remember. Beginning as a baby she had some big gaps (language and frustration tolerance) and things that were off the charts ahead all at the same time. Those gaps eventually narrowed, but she came a certain way.

She had no actual behavioral issues by the second half of kindergarten and hasn't gotten in trouble since. But she also found holding it together in kindergarten to be extremely emotionally exhausting, and really struggled with expectations. It also doesn't mean that she doesn't struggle socially now and is often frustrated and sad, especially when kids gang up or she doesn't get the joke. She gets along best with kids a year younger and all her friends are on the youngest side in her class.

I mean, if age and maturity don't matter, why don't all the Sept and October birthday parents just push their kids ahead? Surely they'll be just fine if they just practice EQ and study more, right? They don't because maturity matters. And it's not something you can just teach or force any more so than you could have taught or forced your 9 mo to walk.

Look I'm not going to diagnose a stranger online, but I really hope you have gotten a neuropsych evaluation by now.

-pediatric mental health professional

Troll.

Np. Why would that be a troll?

I have a neurodivergent, young for their grade, gifted child too. The pp with a child who has social problems seems to be writing off big red flags, and it’s not clear that she’s actually had a neuropsych done before coming to the conclusion that it’s simply “immaturity.” Having an evaluation done can help give her a better framework for understanding and helping her child.

If you trust the evaluator. I’m not sure I would. The push to meds for young-for-grade kids is real and well-documented.

You're the only person on this thread who's mentioned meds. Maybe you should take yours?

Your unwarranted personal attack is noted. Since you are incapable of rational discussion, I’ll leave a link to a meta article discussing the issue from NPR.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/11/28/671614909/youngest-children-in-a-class-are-most-likely-to-get-adhd-diagnosis

I could provide links to the many worldwide studies that replicate the phenomenon as well (I have read them all), but I am not sure you have the numerical analysis background to get through the dense statistical analysis involved, so I would just start with an article from NPR.

Again, you are the only person talking about medication! That's not what evaluations are for! I'm glad you are on a crusade against medicating children, that's literally not the discussion.

You are out of your depth here, I think.

I'm a child psychologist. There are about a dozen steps between a neuropsych eval and medication. OT, IEPs, 504s, therapy, ABA, social skills groups, parent coaching, talk therapy etc etc etc. To say an evaluation is used solely for medication is incorrect. There are many reasons PP should be pursuing one, none of which have to do with medication.

Nobody said an evaluation is used solely for medication. And I’m quite familiar with all the steps involved. I’m also very familiar with what happens once a school gets its hands on the outcome of that evaluation.

I’m also very familiar with the shockingly high level of power people like you hold over families, and would counsel any parent to be quite cautious about engaging in an evaluation. You don’t seem to be aware of some of the abuses perpetrated by your profession on vulnerable kids.

And before you attack me and my kids personally, as you seem inclined to do, I know all of this not because of my own kids but because I’ve been an advocate for working class non-English-speaking families in the school system for years. You can’t snow me, in other words, no matter how much you attack me personally.

Do. Isn’t that issue easily resolved by not giving the school the report?

I gave the school our child’s report because it was helpful for them to understand our child. I did that on my own. I didn’t have to provide it. If I was concerned about misuse, I could have easily not have done so. Having the information for myself, as the parent, would still have been helpful.

That’s assuming private pay evaluations. Also, if you are trying to get services in public schools you are often asked about prior evaluations. You can say no, but good luck trying to get through the system of they’ve deemed you oppositional.

I read all those blithe “just get evaluated!” posts on DCUM and I wonder if it’s just naïveté or privilege speaking, but it certainly seems ignorant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I only held back when my child was socially immature and in concert with her preK teachers. She’s done very well since then. I’d never hold back a gifted child as I’d be focused on making sure he or she could thrive.

Lol! My child’s PreK teacher suggested repeating. Same ridiculous abstract reason-“socially immature.” I refused and knew this was just a thoughtless and lazy “reason” that is thrown around for convenience.
Years later, his gpa very high is and he thriving and is in a leadership role.
The PreK teacher was profoundly wrong and so is yours.

I have a gifted kid who was very young for her grade (1 day before the cutoff) and socially immature but went on time. Kindergarten was a disaster. She hated all of the desk work, would get wiggly and disruptive and be sent to the principal's office daily. She came to distrust teachers and considered herself a bad kid because she was always in trouble. She hated school and cried herself to sleep every night and then sobbed all the next morning about having to go to school where the teachers hated her. She had trouble resolving problems with friends and spent a lot of time upset. It was really, really terrible. It's so hard seeing your sweet kid crumble and seem themselves a bad person and morn their loss of time to "just play." We were very lucky that she had an excellent 1st grade teacher who started to heal the trauma from the prior year. She was still wiggly and immature but the teacher gave her classroom jobs to keep her busy and put her on group projects only with kids she knew would be a good fit. Then covid hit and she was home for 1.5 years. By the time she was back a lot of the wiggly immaturity was gone, but then we got hit with mean girl dynamics and social engineering and bullying. She's still immature and struggles socially. All of her friends are well into puberty and she hasn't started at all yet. Academically she has 100% scores in every middle school class (or higher if there's extra credit), takes all honors and accelerated classes, but really should be a grade back socially. And no, she doesn't have ADHD or anything diagnosable. It's maturity.

Your preK teacher may have been wrong, but social maturity is a real thing and it can be awful if a kid really isn't ready for kindergarten but is forced.

This sounds more like behavioral issues and sounds like you didn’t model social skills for her if she struggled this much. A lot of times the parents of kids who are testing high ignore teaching and modeling the skills that will actually bring success and happiness as an adult. Work on EQ. It’s going to make no difference if she’s 99 percent in anything if she can’t make and keep relationships and cooperate with others.

Oh boy. I promise you that EQ has been a focus her whole life. It's like me asking why your 50th percentile math student isn't getting 99th percentile scores?!? Don't you practice math with them? Kids have different strengths and weaknesses. Developmentally they arrive at different skills at different times. She's a kid who was walking at 8.5 months, climping the big slide at the playground and going down independently at 10 months and going on 2+ mile bike rides at 3 yo. She was reading chapter books at 4 yo. But the social stuff is a bit behind. It always has been. She eventually gets there, but when she gets to it. Kids come as they come and you can't force them to be who you want them to be.

She went to a very well respected preschool for the two years before kindergarten. That's how kids typically learn classroom skills. She had some skills, but was not ready for the pace of kindergarten day. She really just needed more free playtime, more playground time, and less desk time--just like the schedule she had in pre-K, which shouldn't be super surprising as she was still 4 yo for the beginning of kindergarten.

She's not very far outside of norms, but she is the very youngest in her grade. So when she's around all older kids she seems especially young. She would be totally average behavior and maturity wise for the class below.

Social maturity is a real thing. That's all I'm saying.

I can just tell what kind of mom you are by what you posted. Not many people talk like that … walked at 8.5 months.. I can’t even remember when my kids first walked let alone the 2 week mark. You sound really competitive about this stuff. I bet she struggles socially because you do and you’re not modeling the right behavior that makes her a likable kid. It’s not normal to have that many behavioral issues. Both of my children and myself were youngest in the grade and had zero issues. You bring up the percentiles for math. I’ll give an example. My son was in 30 percentile all through K and I started working with him 10 min a day with an online program and he’s in the 95 now in 1st based on testing first semester. So yes I absolutely believe you can supplement especially early elementary and that’s often what you see with testing, kids who receive supplemental help from a parent or had a really strong teacher.

Yeah, I think you're missing the impact of asymmetrical development. It stands out when kids do things very out of order--that's why I remember. Beginning as a baby she had some big gaps (language and frustration tolerance) and things that were off the charts ahead all at the same time. Those gaps eventually narrowed, but she came a certain way.

She had no actual behavioral issues by the second half of kindergarten and hasn't gotten in trouble since. But she also found holding it together in kindergarten to be extremely emotionally exhausting, and really struggled with expectations. It also doesn't mean that she doesn't struggle socially now and is often frustrated and sad, especially when kids gang up or she doesn't get the joke. She gets along best with kids a year younger and all her friends are on the youngest side in her class.

I mean, if age and maturity don't matter, why don't all the Sept and October birthday parents just push their kids ahead? Surely they'll be just fine if they just practice EQ and study more, right? They don't because maturity matters. And it's not something you can just teach or force any more so than you could have taught or forced your 9 mo to walk.

Look I'm not going to diagnose a stranger online, but I really hope you have gotten a neuropsych evaluation by now.

-pediatric mental health professional

Troll.

Np. Why would that be a troll?

I have a neurodivergent, young for their grade, gifted child too. The pp with a child who has social problems seems to be writing off big red flags, and it’s not clear that she’s actually had a neuropsych done before coming to the conclusion that it’s simply “immaturity.” Having an evaluation done can help give her a better framework for understanding and helping her child.

If you trust the evaluator. I’m not sure I would. The push to meds for young-for-grade kids is real and well-documented.

You're the only person on this thread who's mentioned meds. Maybe you should take yours?

Your unwarranted personal attack is noted. Since you are incapable of rational discussion, I’ll leave a link to a meta article discussing the issue from NPR.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/11/28/671614909/youngest-children-in-a-class-are-most-likely-to-get-adhd-diagnosis

I could provide links to the many worldwide studies that replicate the phenomenon as well (I have read them all), but I am not sure you have the numerical analysis background to get through the dense statistical analysis involved, so I would just start with an article from NPR.

Again, you are the only person talking about medication! That's not what evaluations are for! I'm glad you are on a crusade against medicating children, that's literally not the discussion.

You are out of your depth here, I think.

I'm a child psychologist. There are about a dozen steps between a neuropsych eval and medication. OT, IEPs, 504s, therapy, ABA, social skills groups, parent coaching, talk therapy etc etc etc. To say an evaluation is used solely for medication is incorrect. There are many reasons PP should be pursuing one, none of which have to do with medication.

Nobody said an evaluation is used solely for medication. And I’m quite familiar with all the steps involved. I’m also very familiar with what happens once a school gets its hands on the outcome of that evaluation.

I’m also very familiar with the shockingly high level of power people like you hold over families, and would counsel any parent to be quite cautious about engaging in an evaluation. You don’t seem to be aware of some of the abuses perpetrated by your profession on vulnerable kids.

And before you attack me and my kids personally, as you seem inclined to do, I know all of this not because of my own kids but because I’ve been an advocate for working class non-English-speaking families in the school system for years. You can’t snow me, in other words, no matter how much you attack me personally.

The original PP (you?) said "If you trust the evaluator. I’m not sure I would. The push to meds for young-for-grade kids is real and well-documented." This is implying evaluators push for drugs, and I am telling you this is simply not the case. Evaluators do not recommend drugs, they do not prescribe drugs, they have nothing to do with drugs. Doing so is out of their scope of practice. Their only job is to evaluate, diagnose and refer. It sounds like maybe you have a problem with pediatric psychiatrists, but again psychiatrists do not evaluate.

What you are essentially advocating for is for children to miss out on potentially life changing services because you believe there is an epidemic of over prescriptions. That is true and documented, I'm not arguing with you on that. What I am saying is that that's not a reason to not trust an evaluator, who has no say in medication management nor shouldn't. And I really do take issue with the idea that psychologists are abusing vulnerable children. In what possible way? To what possible end? You do realize that we are in a historical mental health crisis for children in America and practitioners are stretched incredibly thin. Do you believe there's this evil cabal of pediatric mental health professionals just chomping at the bit to...what exactly? What am I getting out of this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So a child psychologist is the one who, when faced with mild disagreement, immediately went to a “take your meds” attack? Is that correct?

No, I think there’s another poster on here saying inflammatory things for “fun.”

[Anonymous]

It's amazing there is so much resistance to the idea that kids can naturally have different levels of social maturity for their age, and that the youngest in a grade may struggle with being less mature. Really astounding. Not everything is diagnosable.

A kid who is comfortably within the norms for the grade that they are within 1 day of the cutoff of being in is likely just immature. Really. They may not be socially advanced for their age, but completely within the bounds of normal behavior and development.

A kid with perfect marks in school, who keeps track of all of their things, and hasn't gotten in trouble for behavior in school in >5.5 years doesn't have ADHD. Really. There is zero reason to medicate them. Not understanding or participating in mean girl exclusionary behavior, and occasionally being the target or the friend of a target, doesn't make one have ADHD or anything else diagnosable. Getting along with kids who similarly are younger for the grade or a grade below and not yet chasing boys or social engineering isn't diagnosable either. It's all age appropriate for a kid who is young for the grade. Just like a 4 yo wanting to play instead of sitting for long periods doing academic seat work is entirely normal, even if that's what was expected at our highly respected DMV public school.

This thread is looney tunes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's amazing there is so much resistance to the idea that kids can naturally have different levels of social maturity for their age, and that the youngest in a grade may struggle with being less mature. Really astounding. Not everything is diagnosable.

A kid who is comfortably within the norms for the grade that they are within 1 day of the cutoff of being in is likely just immature. Really. They may not be socially advanced for their age, but completely within the bounds of normal behavior and development.

A kid with perfect marks in school, who keeps track of all of their things, and hasn't gotten in trouble for behavior in school in >5.5 years doesn't have ADHD. Really. There is zero reason to medicate them. Not understanding or participating in mean girl exclusionary behavior, and occasionally being the target or the friend of a target, doesn't make one have ADHD or anything else diagnosable. Getting along with kids who similarly are younger for the grade or a grade below and not yet chasing boys or social engineering isn't diagnosable either. It's all age appropriate for a kid who is young for the grade. Just like a 4 yo wanting to play instead of sitting for long periods doing academic seat work is entirely normal, even if that's what was expected at our highly respected DMV public school.

This thread is looney tunes.

We're not talking about OP's kid. We're talking about a PP whose kid has a lot of red flags that she is ignoring.