4 y.o. niece is wonderful birth control. Tell sibling their kid is out of control?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you have kids? Four is a tough age, even if she didn't have her schedule disrupted by (possible travel and) an adult event. The parents should not have brought her, or should have left the room with her, but her antics do not in themselves mean she's a brat. Nor is it clear how spanking would help here.

Four is not a tough age.

YMMV. Lucky you to have easy kids. Four was tough for my kid.

First, I would not take my 4 yo to a funeral service. I'd hire a sitter or send only 1 parent.
2nd, if I chose to take my 4yo (or kid at any age) to a public event, I would remove them from said event if they could not behave. Nobody else at the funeral or dining out or the movies wants to spend their time with your kid recklessly running around screaming, rolling on floor etc.

When our kids were young, we didn't dine out much, because it was a pain in the ass if the kids decided not to behave (one of us would spend dinner outside walking the kid around or sitting in the car), so you know what---we didn't do it much with the kids in tow, or we did it on a day when we knew they were well rested/in a good mood. Or more importantly, we did it at a kid friendly restaurant so that anyone going there should expect there will be lots of kids, not expect complete quiet. However we always removed them from the situation if they were misbehaving.

Just last weekend, we went to a fancy/higher end restaurant that does not have a kid's menu, is largely a tasting menu and fancy drinks menu. Place seats 30-40 total, including the bar. Great place, but not likely a good place for most kids under 10 (unless very adventurous). We arrived at 7pm and there was a table just clearing out who had two kids under 4/5 and both were obnoxious, screaming and misbehaving. In that case I blame the parents---it simply isn't a place to take a kid that age, doesn't matter if Grandma and grandpa (or the parents) wanted to dine here. the adults dining there have a logical expectation that the other guests will be well behaved and relatively quiet. Half the tables were filled with couples on dates/couple nights out it seemed. So yeah I don't take my kids to places like that because it's common sense and common courtesy to everyone else. And damn, I'm not paying $150 for food for two adults if I cannot sit down and enjoy my dinner with a nice drink without interruption.
Now I was glad the obnoxious kids left just as we arrived because I'd be pissed if I had been there while this all went down

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I knew a situation where the aunts were gossiping about a small child's behavior. Yes, the kid was a little wild. Then, the gossipy aunts had children. Their kids were easily 5x wilder than the kid they had criticized a few years prior. So wild they were asked to leave everything from restaurants to church services.

Y'all have the same gene pool, OP. Chances are the parents are exhausted and at their wit's end. Why don't you step out with the child to the parking lot and run in circles for a bit to let off some energy? The parents will appreciate the respite.

We actually did take her outside to run around and lifted her up at one point, only to get smacked in the face because she has zero qualms about hitting adults.

she hit you because she’s 4 and sensorily overwhelmed and you invaded her space.

clearly she needs more support but you sound like a bad, bad person.

I taught 3 and 4 year olds for years and I was never once slapped in the face. And I had plenty of kids with sensory issues.

Kids need more structure and parents are afraid of enforcing boundaries. It’s gotten really bad because there always always excuses “it’s sensory overload, not his fault!” and rarely “do not hit, hitting hurts. No hutting”

Why have parents become SO afraid of parenting?

you probably didn’t suddenly grab one of them and pick them up during a meltdown.

This happened repeatedly with different adults. Stop pretending that this level of physical hitting and tantrumming is expected or normal.

Says the person with no kids. Your opinion is useless.

Quite the opposite. The person insisting this is how all special needs kids behave is completely clueless.

No one said that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you have kids? Four is a tough age, even if she didn't have her schedule disrupted by (possible travel and) an adult event. The parents should not have brought her, or should have left the room with her, but her antics do not in themselves mean she's a brat. Nor is it clear how spanking would help here.

Four is not a tough age.

YMMV. Lucky you to have easy kids. Four was tough for my kid.

First, I would not take my 4 yo to a funeral service. I'd hire a sitter or send only 1 parent.
2nd, if I chose to take my 4yo (or kid at any age) to a public event, I would remove them from said event if they could not behave. Nobody else at the funeral or dining out or the movies wants to spend their time with your kid recklessly running around screaming, rolling on floor etc.

When our kids were young, we didn't dine out much, because it was a pain in the ass if the kids decided not to behave (one of us would spend dinner outside walking the kid around or sitting in the car), so you know what---we didn't do it much with the kids in tow, or we did it on a day when we knew they were well rested/in a good mood. Or more importantly, we did it at a kid friendly restaurant so that anyone going there should expect there will be lots of kids, not expect complete quiet. However we always removed them from the situation if they were misbehaving.

Just last weekend, we went to a fancy/higher end restaurant that does not have a kid's menu, is largely a tasting menu and fancy drinks menu. Place seats 30-40 total, including the bar. Great place, but not likely a good place for most kids under 10 (unless very adventurous). We arrived at 7pm and there was a table just clearing out who had two kids under 4/5 and both were obnoxious, screaming and misbehaving. In that case I blame the parents---it simply isn't a place to take a kid that age, doesn't matter if Grandma and grandpa (or the parents) wanted to dine here. the adults dining there have a logical expectation that the other guests will be well behaved and relatively quiet. Half the tables were filled with couples on dates/couple nights out it seemed. So yeah I don't take my kids to places like that because it's common sense and common courtesy to everyone else. And damn, I'm not paying $150 for food for two adults if I cannot sit down and enjoy my dinner with a nice drink without interruption.
Now I was glad the obnoxious kids left just as we arrived because I'd be pissed if I had been there while this all went down

That's you. How do you know the whole family wasn't expected to show up for the funeral?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you have kids? Four is a tough age, even if she didn't have her schedule disrupted by (possible travel and) an adult event. The parents should not have brought her, or should have left the room with her, but her antics do not in themselves mean she's a brat. Nor is it clear how spanking would help here.

Four is not a tough age.

YMMV. Lucky you to have easy kids. Four was tough for my kid.

First, I would not take my 4 yo to a funeral service. I'd hire a sitter or send only 1 parent.
2nd, if I chose to take my 4yo (or kid at any age) to a public event, I would remove them from said event if they could not behave. Nobody else at the funeral or dining out or the movies wants to spend their time with your kid recklessly running around screaming, rolling on floor etc.

When our kids were young, we didn't dine out much, because it was a pain in the ass if the kids decided not to behave (one of us would spend dinner outside walking the kid around or sitting in the car), so you know what---we didn't do it much with the kids in tow, or we did it on a day when we knew they were well rested/in a good mood. Or more importantly, we did it at a kid friendly restaurant so that anyone going there should expect there will be lots of kids, not expect complete quiet. However we always removed them from the situation if they were misbehaving.

Just last weekend, we went to a fancy/higher end restaurant that does not have a kid's menu, is largely a tasting menu and fancy drinks menu. Place seats 30-40 total, including the bar. Great place, but not likely a good place for most kids under 10 (unless very adventurous). We arrived at 7pm and there was a table just clearing out who had two kids under 4/5 and both were obnoxious, screaming and misbehaving. In that case I blame the parents---it simply isn't a place to take a kid that age, doesn't matter if Grandma and grandpa (or the parents) wanted to dine here. the adults dining there have a logical expectation that the other guests will be well behaved and relatively quiet. Half the tables were filled with couples on dates/couple nights out it seemed. So yeah I don't take my kids to places like that because it's common sense and common courtesy to everyone else. And damn, I'm not paying $150 for food for two adults if I cannot sit down and enjoy my dinner with a nice drink without interruption.
Now I was glad the obnoxious kids left just as we arrived because I'd be pissed if I had been there while this all went down

It's easy to say you wouldn't take your kid to a funeral in the abstract, but what are you supposed to do when the funeral is out of town and you can't find a babysitter last minute to stay for a few nights with the kids, because people don't die on a schedule? Often both parents would like to participate in the funeral and family time and I think most people understand that. These aren't easy things. That's another issue entirely from managing behavior at the funeral, but the point is that deaths in the family are a hard thing and people are grieving and parenting and often doing the best they can under the circumstances. And those circumstances are very individual.

[Anonymous]

OP if you don't have kids, just keep this to yourself. Even your phrasing in the title is so pejorative that it was hard to read your first post description as anything objective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you have kids? Four is a tough age, even if she didn't have her schedule disrupted by (possible travel and) an adult event. The parents should not have brought her, or should have left the room with her, but her antics do not in themselves mean she's a brat. Nor is it clear how spanking would help here.

Four is not a tough age.

YMMV. Lucky you to have easy kids. Four was tough for my kid.

First, I would not take my 4 yo to a funeral service. I'd hire a sitter or send only 1 parent.
2nd, if I chose to take my 4yo (or kid at any age) to a public event, I would remove them from said event if they could not behave. Nobody else at the funeral or dining out or the movies wants to spend their time with your kid recklessly running around screaming, rolling on floor etc.

When our kids were young, we didn't dine out much, because it was a pain in the ass if the kids decided not to behave (one of us would spend dinner outside walking the kid around or sitting in the car), so you know what---we didn't do it much with the kids in tow, or we did it on a day when we knew they were well rested/in a good mood. Or more importantly, we did it at a kid friendly restaurant so that anyone going there should expect there will be lots of kids, not expect complete quiet. However we always removed them from the situation if they were misbehaving.

Just last weekend, we went to a fancy/higher end restaurant that does not have a kid's menu, is largely a tasting menu and fancy drinks menu. Place seats 30-40 total, including the bar. Great place, but not likely a good place for most kids under 10 (unless very adventurous). We arrived at 7pm and there was a table just clearing out who had two kids under 4/5 and both were obnoxious, screaming and misbehaving. In that case I blame the parents---it simply isn't a place to take a kid that age, doesn't matter if Grandma and grandpa (or the parents) wanted to dine here. the adults dining there have a logical expectation that the other guests will be well behaved and relatively quiet. Half the tables were filled with couples on dates/couple nights out it seemed. So yeah I don't take my kids to places like that because it's common sense and common courtesy to everyone else. And damn, I'm not paying $150 for food for two adults if I cannot sit down and enjoy my dinner with a nice drink without interruption.
Now I was glad the obnoxious kids left just as we arrived because I'd be pissed if I had been there while this all went down

It's easy to say you wouldn't take your kid to a funeral in the abstract, but what are you supposed to do when the funeral is out of town and you can't find a babysitter last minute to stay for a few nights with the kids, because people don't die on a schedule? Often both parents would like to participate in the funeral and family time and I think most people understand that. These aren't easy things. That's another issue entirely from managing behavior at the funeral, but the point is that deaths in the family are a hard thing and people are grieving and parenting and often doing the best they can under the circumstances. And those circumstances are very individual.

Exactly.

Be sure to tell the parents that she's not invited to your funeral.

Better yet, offer to babysit next time

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you have kids? Four is a tough age, even if she didn't have her schedule disrupted by (possible travel and) an adult event. The parents should not have brought her, or should have left the room with her, but her antics do not in themselves mean she's a brat. Nor is it clear how spanking would help here.

Four is not a tough age.

YMMV. Lucky you to have easy kids. Four was tough for my kid.

First, I would not take my 4 yo to a funeral service. I'd hire a sitter or send only 1 parent.
2nd, if I chose to take my 4yo (or kid at any age) to a public event, I would remove them from said event if they could not behave. Nobody else at the funeral or dining out or the movies wants to spend their time with your kid recklessly running around screaming, rolling on floor etc.

When our kids were young, we didn't dine out much, because it was a pain in the ass if the kids decided not to behave (one of us would spend dinner outside walking the kid around or sitting in the car), so you know what---we didn't do it much with the kids in tow, or we did it on a day when we knew they were well rested/in a good mood. Or more importantly, we did it at a kid friendly restaurant so that anyone going there should expect there will be lots of kids, not expect complete quiet. However we always removed them from the situation if they were misbehaving.

Just last weekend, we went to a fancy/higher end restaurant that does not have a kid's menu, is largely a tasting menu and fancy drinks menu. Place seats 30-40 total, including the bar. Great place, but not likely a good place for most kids under 10 (unless very adventurous). We arrived at 7pm and there was a table just clearing out who had two kids under 4/5 and both were obnoxious, screaming and misbehaving. In that case I blame the parents---it simply isn't a place to take a kid that age, doesn't matter if Grandma and grandpa (or the parents) wanted to dine here. the adults dining there have a logical expectation that the other guests will be well behaved and relatively quiet. Half the tables were filled with couples on dates/couple nights out it seemed. So yeah I don't take my kids to places like that because it's common sense and common courtesy to everyone else. And damn, I'm not paying $150 for food for two adults if I cannot sit down and enjoy my dinner with a nice drink without interruption.
Now I was glad the obnoxious kids left just as we arrived because I'd be pissed if I had been there while this all went down

It's easy to say you wouldn't take your kid to a funeral in the abstract, but what are you supposed to do when the funeral is out of town and you can't find a babysitter last minute to stay for a few nights with the kids, because people don't die on a schedule? Often both parents would like to participate in the funeral and family time and I think most people understand that. These aren't easy things. That's another issue entirely from managing behavior at the funeral, but the point is that deaths in the family are a hard thing and people are grieving and parenting and often doing the best they can under the circumstances. And those circumstances are very individual.

Exactly.

Be sure to tell the parents that she's not invited to your funeral.

Better yet, offer to babysit next time

Not even just the babysitter issues. When my husband's grandfather died, we had a toddler. DH told his grandmother that I would stay back with the toddler. She insisted that the toddler and I both attend. She went on and on about how her DH just loved being a great-grandfather and the great-grandchildren just had to be in attendance (the others were 5 and 7).

So we attended. It was a large Catholic church that actually had what my FIL called "a crying room" so when DS started making some noise, I hightailed it to that room where I could still hear the funeral mass but nobody could hear him.

My point, though, is that some people would want a 4 year old, even a misbehaving one, to attend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you have kids? Four is a tough age, even if she didn't have her schedule disrupted by (possible travel and) an adult event. The parents should not have brought her, or should have left the room with her, but her antics do not in themselves mean she's a brat. Nor is it clear how spanking would help here.

Four is not a tough age.

YMMV. Lucky you to have easy kids. Four was tough for my kid.

First, I would not take my 4 yo to a funeral service. I'd hire a sitter or send only 1 parent.
2nd, if I chose to take my 4yo (or kid at any age) to a public event, I would remove them from said event if they could not behave. Nobody else at the funeral or dining out or the movies wants to spend their time with your kid recklessly running around screaming, rolling on floor etc.

When our kids were young, we didn't dine out much, because it was a pain in the ass if the kids decided not to behave (one of us would spend dinner outside walking the kid around or sitting in the car), so you know what---we didn't do it much with the kids in tow, or we did it on a day when we knew they were well rested/in a good mood. Or more importantly, we did it at a kid friendly restaurant so that anyone going there should expect there will be lots of kids, not expect complete quiet. However we always removed them from the situation if they were misbehaving.

Just last weekend, we went to a fancy/higher end restaurant that does not have a kid's menu, is largely a tasting menu and fancy drinks menu. Place seats 30-40 total, including the bar. Great place, but not likely a good place for most kids under 10 (unless very adventurous). We arrived at 7pm and there was a table just clearing out who had two kids under 4/5 and both were obnoxious, screaming and misbehaving. In that case I blame the parents---it simply isn't a place to take a kid that age, doesn't matter if Grandma and grandpa (or the parents) wanted to dine here. the adults dining there have a logical expectation that the other guests will be well behaved and relatively quiet. Half the tables were filled with couples on dates/couple nights out it seemed. So yeah I don't take my kids to places like that because it's common sense and common courtesy to everyone else. And damn, I'm not paying $150 for food for two adults if I cannot sit down and enjoy my dinner with a nice drink without interruption.
Now I was glad the obnoxious kids left just as we arrived because I'd be pissed if I had been there while this all went down

That's you. How do you know the whole family wasn't expected to show up for the funeral?

Taking them to a funeral is one thing but not removing them when they were disturbing others is the crux of the matter. My grandfather’s funeral was ruined for many because my cousin’s wife wouldn’t remove their daughter. No one could hear or focus on the sermon and it could have been avoided if they had simply carried her out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe she has special needs? I’d say something, but consider if that might be the case.

This or consider 4 years ago your sibling was pregnant when there was a global crisis going on and that does a number to the neurochemistry of en utero growth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you have kids? Four is a tough age, even if she didn't have her schedule disrupted by (possible travel and) an adult event. The parents should not have brought her, or should have left the room with her, but her antics do not in themselves mean she's a brat. Nor is it clear how spanking would help here.

Four is not a tough age.

YMMV. Lucky you to have easy kids. Four was tough for my kid.

First, I would not take my 4 yo to a funeral service. I'd hire a sitter or send only 1 parent.
2nd, if I chose to take my 4yo (or kid at any age) to a public event, I would remove them from said event if they could not behave. Nobody else at the funeral or dining out or the movies wants to spend their time with your kid recklessly running around screaming, rolling on floor etc.

When our kids were young, we didn't dine out much, because it was a pain in the ass if the kids decided not to behave (one of us would spend dinner outside walking the kid around or sitting in the car), so you know what---we didn't do it much with the kids in tow, or we did it on a day when we knew they were well rested/in a good mood. Or more importantly, we did it at a kid friendly restaurant so that anyone going there should expect there will be lots of kids, not expect complete quiet. However we always removed them from the situation if they were misbehaving.

Just last weekend, we went to a fancy/higher end restaurant that does not have a kid's menu, is largely a tasting menu and fancy drinks menu. Place seats 30-40 total, including the bar. Great place, but not likely a good place for most kids under 10 (unless very adventurous). We arrived at 7pm and there was a table just clearing out who had two kids under 4/5 and both were obnoxious, screaming and misbehaving. In that case I blame the parents---it simply isn't a place to take a kid that age, doesn't matter if Grandma and grandpa (or the parents) wanted to dine here. the adults dining there have a logical expectation that the other guests will be well behaved and relatively quiet. Half the tables were filled with couples on dates/couple nights out it seemed. So yeah I don't take my kids to places like that because it's common sense and common courtesy to everyone else. And damn, I'm not paying $150 for food for two adults if I cannot sit down and enjoy my dinner with a nice drink without interruption.
Now I was glad the obnoxious kids left just as we arrived because I'd be pissed if I had been there while this all went down

It's easy to say you wouldn't take your kid to a funeral in the abstract, but what are you supposed to do when the funeral is out of town and you can't find a babysitter last minute to stay for a few nights with the kids, because people don't die on a schedule? Often both parents would like to participate in the funeral and family time and I think most people understand that. These aren't easy things. That's another issue entirely from managing behavior at the funeral, but the point is that deaths in the family are a hard thing and people are grieving and parenting and often doing the best they can under the circumstances. And those circumstances are very individual.

Exactly.

Be sure to tell the parents that she's not invited to your funeral.

Better yet, offer to babysit next time

Not even just the babysitter issues. When my husband's grandfather died, we had a toddler. DH told his grandmother that I would stay back with the toddler. She insisted that the toddler and I both attend. She went on and on about how her DH just loved being a great-grandfather and the great-grandchildren just had to be in attendance (the others were 5 and 7).

So we attended. It was a large Catholic church that actually had what my FIL called "a crying room" so when DS started making some noise, I hightailed it to that room where I could still hear the funeral mass but nobody could hear him.

My point, though, is that some people would want a 4 year old, even a misbehaving one, to attend.

This is another good point. I posted upthread about my kids being rowdy at my dad's wake, but my mom asked us to bring them as they were his only grandchildren. So I went alone for the private family time, and my DH brought our 1 and 3 year old after the casket was closed and when the wake officially started. They ran around and we kept taking them out in the hall but it was an emotionally taxing day and we had driven 6 hours to get there. At the burial the next day, my 3 year old sat still and was quiet and my DH walked the 1 year old around the cemetery. Kids are so unpredictable, and you never know who was asked to attend and what conversations happened ahead of time.

[Anonymous]

^^^ Oh and one more thing: my 1 year old will never remember any of this, but my 3 year old vaguely understood what was going on and why she wouldn't see her Grandpa anymore, and 6 months later she talks about him being in heaven and with Jesus, and she remembers burying him. It was meaningful for HER to be there, at least in some way. I'm not claiming she gets it all, but she got something out of being included. Death is a part of life and so are kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you have kids? Four is a tough age, even if she didn't have her schedule disrupted by (possible travel and) an adult event. The parents should not have brought her, or should have left the room with her, but her antics do not in themselves mean she's a brat. Nor is it clear how spanking would help here.

Four is not a tough age.

YMMV. Lucky you to have easy kids. Four was tough for my kid.

First, I would not take my 4 yo to a funeral service. I'd hire a sitter or send only 1 parent.
2nd, if I chose to take my 4yo (or kid at any age) to a public event, I would remove them from said event if they could not behave. Nobody else at the funeral or dining out or the movies wants to spend their time with your kid recklessly running around screaming, rolling on floor etc.

When our kids were young, we didn't dine out much, because it was a pain in the ass if the kids decided not to behave (one of us would spend dinner outside walking the kid around or sitting in the car), so you know what---we didn't do it much with the kids in tow, or we did it on a day when we knew they were well rested/in a good mood. Or more importantly, we did it at a kid friendly restaurant so that anyone going there should expect there will be lots of kids, not expect complete quiet. However we always removed them from the situation if they were misbehaving.

Just last weekend, we went to a fancy/higher end restaurant that does not have a kid's menu, is largely a tasting menu and fancy drinks menu. Place seats 30-40 total, including the bar. Great place, but not likely a good place for most kids under 10 (unless very adventurous). We arrived at 7pm and there was a table just clearing out who had two kids under 4/5 and both were obnoxious, screaming and misbehaving. In that case I blame the parents---it simply isn't a place to take a kid that age, doesn't matter if Grandma and grandpa (or the parents) wanted to dine here. the adults dining there have a logical expectation that the other guests will be well behaved and relatively quiet. Half the tables were filled with couples on dates/couple nights out it seemed. So yeah I don't take my kids to places like that because it's common sense and common courtesy to everyone else. And damn, I'm not paying $150 for food for two adults if I cannot sit down and enjoy my dinner with a nice drink without interruption.
Now I was glad the obnoxious kids left just as we arrived because I'd be pissed if I had been there while this all went down

It's easy to say you wouldn't take your kid to a funeral in the abstract, but what are you supposed to do when the funeral is out of town and you can't find a babysitter last minute to stay for a few nights with the kids, because people don't die on a schedule? Often both parents would like to participate in the funeral and family time and I think most people understand that. These aren't easy things. That's another issue entirely from managing behavior at the funeral, but the point is that deaths in the family are a hard thing and people are grieving and parenting and often doing the best they can under the circumstances. And those circumstances are very individual.

Then you do not attend funeral if you cannot find a babysitter. One very good reason OZp's relative could not find a sitter is child is feral and no one can stand her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you have kids? Four is a tough age, even if she didn't have her schedule disrupted by (possible travel and) an adult event. The parents should not have brought her, or should have left the room with her, but her antics do not in themselves mean she's a brat. Nor is it clear how spanking would help here.

Four is not a tough age.

YMMV. Lucky you to have easy kids. Four was tough for my kid.

First, I would not take my 4 yo to a funeral service. I'd hire a sitter or send only 1 parent.
2nd, if I chose to take my 4yo (or kid at any age) to a public event, I would remove them from said event if they could not behave. Nobody else at the funeral or dining out or the movies wants to spend their time with your kid recklessly running around screaming, rolling on floor etc.

When our kids were young, we didn't dine out much, because it was a pain in the ass if the kids decided not to behave (one of us would spend dinner outside walking the kid around or sitting in the car), so you know what---we didn't do it much with the kids in tow, or we did it on a day when we knew they were well rested/in a good mood. Or more importantly, we did it at a kid friendly restaurant so that anyone going there should expect there will be lots of kids, not expect complete quiet. However we always removed them from the situation if they were misbehaving.

Just last weekend, we went to a fancy/higher end restaurant that does not have a kid's menu, is largely a tasting menu and fancy drinks menu. Place seats 30-40 total, including the bar. Great place, but not likely a good place for most kids under 10 (unless very adventurous). We arrived at 7pm and there was a table just clearing out who had two kids under 4/5 and both were obnoxious, screaming and misbehaving. In that case I blame the parents---it simply isn't a place to take a kid that age, doesn't matter if Grandma and grandpa (or the parents) wanted to dine here. the adults dining there have a logical expectation that the other guests will be well behaved and relatively quiet. Half the tables were filled with couples on dates/couple nights out it seemed. So yeah I don't take my kids to places like that because it's common sense and common courtesy to everyone else. And damn, I'm not paying $150 for food for two adults if I cannot sit down and enjoy my dinner with a nice drink without interruption.
Now I was glad the obnoxious kids left just as we arrived because I'd be pissed if I had been there while this all went down

It's easy to say you wouldn't take your kid to a funeral in the abstract, but what are you supposed to do when the funeral is out of town and you can't find a babysitter last minute to stay for a few nights with the kids, because people don't die on a schedule? Often both parents would like to participate in the funeral and family time and I think most people understand that. These aren't easy things. That's another issue entirely from managing behavior at the funeral, but the point is that deaths in the family are a hard thing and people are grieving and parenting and often doing the best they can under the circumstances. And those circumstances are very individual.

Then you do not attend funeral if you cannot find a babysitter. One very good reason OZp's relative could not find a sitter is child is feral and no one can stand her.

Haha not attending a parent's funeral would be insane. You're funny.

[Anonymous]

Oh, puleez! I am so sick of the same old excuse of "special needs" for horribly behaved children. I know people with special needs children and their children are taught manners and how to behave in public. They also know when NOT to bring their children. No one needs or expects a 4 year old to be the at a funeral!

Stop .among excuses incompetent parents and their horrible brats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kids can be very difficult and it is not always the parents’ fault…that said, the parents should be managing behavior in such a way that it doesn’t disrupt others (in this case, removing her from the service if she cannot behave reasonably).

Our 3rd and youngest child was absolutely terribly behaved as a toddler/preschooler. Could barely get through a casual restaurant meal with him at age 4. This after kids #1 and #2 were fairly easy- same parenting for all but standard methods didn’t work with kid #3.

He grew out of it and is a wonderful preteen now- but we had to be a bit more creative and employ some different parenting methods over the years. I don’t think this is super unusual. For some kids, it may turn out to be something like ADHD also…and 4 is usually too young to diagnose if memory serves.

Heck look at your typical family with grown kids- it isn’t unusual for “good parents” to have one kid with major issues (while the other kids are doing well)

But yes- the parents should be removing any kid who is being disruptive. BTDT many times…if a family event for DH’s side I would remove child and let DH stay (and vice versa with my side of the family)

Of course it was your parenting failure. If for no other reason that you knew he was unable to behave in public and, instead of getting a sitter, you chose to ruin the dining experience of everyone else with your feral brat.