What makes a kid popular in middle school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And do the same popular middle school kids stay popular in high school?

I have 12 (7th grade) and 14 (9th grade) year old boys.

My older son has a friend group consisting of smart athletic boys and he is in many academic extracurriculars. These boys are motivated and achievers. DS is an A+ student and always has been.

My younger son just started middle school and is not so interested in school. He currently has a mix of As, Bs and Cs. He seems much more interested in making new friends and hanging out with the cooler kids who seem more popular. In my opinion, these kids just seem like they do stupid things to gain attention.

What makes a kid popular?

Both kids have told me the popular kids go to parties and drink and do drugs. My high school kid doesn’t get invited to these parties (yet?). I’m glad he isn’t in that group. I do worry for my younger son because he seems much more interested in how social life than anything else.

For girls, its if you are slutty and for boys it's if you are athletic.

+1 NP.

[Anonymous]

There are a couple different types of “popular”.

Some kids are “popular” because they’re well respected, are nice & friendly & positive, are smart (and in a community where it’s cool to be smart), and may be very good at a couple things (a sport, music, art). They are mainstream, not dressing up or down or Goth or hip hop or Taylor sweaters. They are comfortable and have a sense of self early on in life.

Then there are the “popular” kids because they rule the roost by being fast, or controlling or act above their age. Kids with nothing to latch on to look up to that and assume it’s cool and popular. Or they are popular because they have tons of lemming followers.

We all know both. Help build your kids’ judgement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And do the same popular middle school kids stay popular in high school?

I have 12 (7th grade) and 14 (9th grade) year old boys.

My older son has a friend group consisting of smart athletic boys and he is in many academic extracurriculars. These boys are motivated and achievers. DS is an A+ student and always has been.

My younger son just started middle school and is not so interested in school. He currently has a mix of As, Bs and Cs. He seems much more interested in making new friends and hanging out with the cooler kids who seem more popular. In my opinion, these kids just seem like they do stupid things to gain attention.

What makes a kid popular?

Both kids have told me the popular kids go to parties and drink and do drugs. My high school kid doesn’t get invited to these parties (yet?). I’m glad he isn’t in that group. I do worry for my younger son because he seems much more interested in how social life than anything else.

For girls, its if you are slutty and for boys it's if you are athletic.

Wait if the girls are “slutty” who are they being “slutty” with if the boys are just innocent athletes?!?

Exactly. Can we please STOP the dated "girls are sluts" sh---? If the girls are SO ARE THE BOYS.

No we can’t stop it. Because there are girl sluts in middle school and there are girl slut wannabes.
They wear too much makeup, they show too much skin, they don’t want good grades or grades better than the boys, they watch rated R movies, they’re on social media all the time.
They’re also LOUD and in your face about it.

I wouldn’t call that popular, buts is a clear dynamic and displayed in several groups of girls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In general, there are two categories of popular kids, and some kids overlap both categories

1. Kids who have a hook - they are athletic, attractive, have access because of wealth or connections, famous parents, etc.

2. Kids who are kind, have positive energy, are trustworthy and respect their friends.

Kids will be attracted to kids in both categories. But it’s helpful for them if you can show them the distinction between the types of popularity. They can decide how they want to treat and be treated by other kids.

I wish there were more of #2.
Some of the "popular" kids who have been mean to mine appear to have watched "mean girls" for instructions rather than as a cautionary tale.

Yeah, don’t we all! I’m PP and I use this paradigm for talking to my kids about other kids. Some kids are mean to other kids in an effort to stay relevant and popular, and I try to point out the difference between these kids and the ones who are genuinely nice and draw people to them. I explained this clumsily, but there are more nuanced and informed articles about it here. Category 2 are “positive pro social kids”.

https://socialsci.libretexts.org/Courses/Rio_Hondo/CD_106%3A_Child_Growth_and_Development_(Andrade)/12%3A_Middle_Childhood_-_Social_Emotional_Development/12.07%3A_Peer_Relationships

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/growing-friendships/201312/popular-kids

Agree.

They’re bullying for power or there’s drawing in people

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My dd is popular, but on the edge of popularity. If there’s a 1%, she’s a 2%er.

She would answer (I didn’t ask her directly):
For girls:
Has all the merch, or access to it, even if they don’t like or buy into it.
The moms are friends and hang out. They even go on exepensive vacations as families.
No concern for modesty in clothes. Just wear whatever they want, even to school.
Get picked up the neighborhood (at the bus stop) in the parent’s or big sister’s Jeep or golf cart or other cool ride.
Many of them have sisters 15 years older. Seriously. It’s like mom had one when she was 20. Broken relationship. Had another when she was 35. Big sister teaches the younger sister how to be popular.
Usually cheerleading or dance.
Most of them blonde.
In my area, it helps to be a longterm local.

My dd has none of those things but, I do buy her some merch. She’s naturally way prettier than these other girls. Even though the other girls seem prettier with blonde hair and expensive clothes, their faces look like their dads’. So it helps them with the family ties, maybe longterm local connection “looks just like her rich grandaddy!” (But just as ugly)

My dd is confident, friendly, has a boyfriend that isn’t there coolest either but a lot of people “like like” him. She and he both have “rizz.”

They’re both super confident which makes up for the less rich thing.

Sounds like dallas

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In general, there are two categories of popular kids, and some kids overlap both categories

1. Kids who have a hook - they are athletic, attractive, have access because of wealth or connections, famous parents, etc.

2. Kids who are kind, have positive energy, are trustworthy and respect their friends.

Kids will be attracted to kids in both categories. But it’s helpful for them if you can show them the distinction between the types of popularity. They can decide how they want to treat and be treated by other kids.

I wish there were more of #2.
Some of the "popular" kids who have been mean to mine appear to have watched "mean girls" for instructions rather than as a cautionary tale.

Yeah, don’t we all! I’m PP and I use this paradigm for talking to my kids about other kids. Some kids are mean to other kids in an effort to stay relevant and popular, and I try to point out the difference between these kids and the ones who are genuinely nice and draw people to them. I explained this clumsily, but there are more nuanced and informed articles about it here. Category 2 are “positive pro social kids”.

https://socialsci.libretexts.org/Courses/Rio_Hondo/CD_106%3A_Child_Growth_and_Development_(Andrade)/12%3A_Middle_Childhood_-_Social_Emotional_Development/12.07%3A_Peer_Relationships

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/growing-friendships/201312/popular-kids

Agree.

They’re bullying for power or there’s drawing in people

Though there’re exceptions, they are just as mean, just more subtle/strategic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I have to explain NPC to a few of you. It doesn’t have anything to do with online.

You’re a main character or an NPC. Like in a video game, you’re the one in the plot. Or you’re a game extra, just walking along the sidewalk or whatever.

They use these terms like
“Buddy thinks he’s the main character.” So if you’re acting too confident and people don’t think of you as a main character.

“Your outfit is NPC” meaning too basic.

“I know having my Stanley and Air
maxes is sort of NPC, but everyone knows I’m not NPC.”

Bumping into a wall “NPC move bruh”

“It’s giving main character vibes” Could be good or bad. Mostly bad, because someone could be putting you in your place.”

“Jackson has main character rizz. He’s always the center of attention. He’s so funny. But Rodney is always trying to be a main character… so dumb..”

Yuck. Just another nomenclature to put people down and not let them try to develop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my observation, popularity still exists, but not in the same way as when I was that age. (I'm 43 now)

There seems to be 2 kinds of popular:

one is athletic, smart kids, this group is mostly boys

the other is "bad kids" who dress inappropriately, spend a lot of time on hair and make up, talk back to teachers and get ISS, this group is majority girls

This school is mostly Black and Latinx, so I think there are different factors at play.

My kid is nerdy and musical, has plenty of friends and is never bullied

The girl bashing on this entire thread is insane

Well, several people have justified calling girls basic, and OP didn't blink when her older son said it in her presence. It sounds like OP is actually more concerned about wanting popularity, despite her protestations. I would have definitely told my sons to not demean girls like that. But, OP is only worried about drugs, not that her kids are sound like total jerks. (Recall her younger dissing former friends.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I have to explain NPC to a few of you. It doesn’t have anything to do with online.

You’re a main character or an NPC. Like in a video game, you’re the one in the plot. Or you’re a game extra, just walking along the sidewalk or whatever.

They use these terms like
“Buddy thinks he’s the main character.” So if you’re acting too confident and people don’t think of you as a main character.

“Your outfit is NPC” meaning too basic.

“I know having my Stanley and Air
maxes is sort of NPC, but everyone knows I’m not NPC.”

Bumping into a wall “NPC move bruh”

“It’s giving main character vibes” Could be good or bad. Mostly bad, because someone could be putting you in your place.”

“Jackson has main character rizz. He’s always the center of attention. He’s so funny. But Rodney is always trying to be a main character… so dumb..”

OP here. I have heard my younger son talk about NPCs. I have also heard my older son call girls basic. They both hang out with the athletic kids since they are both athletes. My older son hangs out with the smart athletes. My younger son hangs out with the cool athletes who are not the best students. When I mention some of the kids I know from elementary, he will often say he doesn’t see him around or that he hangs out in X group, a group he has determined that he doesn’t want to be in.

Wow, sounds like your son ITA.

OP you are insufferable.

Did you ask this question because your kids are popular, and since they said popular kids are doing drugs, wondering if your kids are doing drugs? It sounds like they are to keep this status with jerks.

Basic just means average.

Yup, and if you're girl does all the basic things (stanley cup, black leggins, oversized sweatshirts, love T-Swift, etc), then they are basic.

So “basic” is all about physical clothes and accessories?
Nothing to do with being a good/bag athlete or student or musician, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dd is popular, but on the edge of popularity. If there’s a 1%, she’s a 2%er.

She would answer (I didn’t ask her directly):
For girls:
Has all the merch, or access to it, even if they don’t like or buy into it.
The moms are friends and hang out. They even go on exepensive vacations as families.
No concern for modesty in clothes. Just wear whatever they want, even to school.
Get picked up the neighborhood (at the bus stop) in the parent’s or big sister’s Jeep or golf cart or other cool ride.
Many of them have sisters 15 years older. Seriously. It’s like mom had one when she was 20. Broken relationship. Had another when she was 35. Big sister teaches the younger sister how to be popular.
Usually cheerleading or dance.
Most of them blonde.
In my area, it helps to be a longterm local.

My dd has none of those things but, I do buy her some merch. She’s naturally way prettier than these other girls. Even though the other girls seem prettier with blonde hair and expensive clothes, their faces look like their dads’. So it helps them with the family ties, maybe longterm local connection “looks just like her rich grandaddy!” (But just as ugly)

My dd is confident, friendly, has a boyfriend that isn’t there coolest either but a lot of people “like like” him. She and he both have “rizz.”

They’re both super confident which makes up for the less rich thing.

Sounds like dallas

Or Los Angeles, though oftentimes the much older half sibling (yes, this was common in my high school too) is from dad's first marriage and mom is the upgraded second wife. Mom is usually anywhere from 5 years to 20 years younger than dad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I have to explain NPC to a few of you. It doesn’t have anything to do with online.

You’re a main character or an NPC. Like in a video game, you’re the one in the plot. Or you’re a game extra, just walking along the sidewalk or whatever.

They use these terms like
“Buddy thinks he’s the main character.” So if you’re acting too confident and people don’t think of you as a main character.

“Your outfit is NPC” meaning too basic.

“I know having my Stanley and Air
maxes is sort of NPC, but everyone knows I’m not NPC.”

Bumping into a wall “NPC move bruh”

“It’s giving main character vibes” Could be good or bad. Mostly bad, because someone could be putting you in your place.”

“Jackson has main character rizz. He’s always the center of attention. He’s so funny. But Rodney is always trying to be a main character… so dumb..”

OP here. I have heard my younger son talk about NPCs. I have also heard my older son call girls basic. They both hang out with the athletic kids since they are both athletes. My older son hangs out with the smart athletes. My younger son hangs out with the cool athletes who are not the best students. When I mention some of the kids I know from elementary, he will often say he doesn’t see him around or that he hangs out in X group, a group he has determined that he doesn’t want to be in.

Wow, sounds like your son ITA.

OP you are insufferable.

Did you ask this question because your kids are popular, and since they said popular kids are doing drugs, wondering if your kids are doing drugs? It sounds like they are to keep this status with jerks.

Basic just means average.

Yup, and if you're girl does all the basic things (stanley cup, black leggins, oversized sweatshirts, love T-Swift, etc), then they are basic.

So “basic” is all about physical clothes and accessories?
Nothing to do with being a good/bag athlete or student or musician, etc.

Yes, "basic" just means they dress like everyone else, act like everyone else, are not unique. (I think).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I have to explain NPC to a few of you. It doesn’t have anything to do with online.

You’re a main character or an NPC. Like in a video game, you’re the one in the plot. Or you’re a game extra, just walking along the sidewalk or whatever.

They use these terms like
“Buddy thinks he’s the main character.” So if you’re acting too confident and people don’t think of you as a main character.

“Your outfit is NPC” meaning too basic.

“I know having my Stanley and Air
maxes is sort of NPC, but everyone knows I’m not NPC.”

Bumping into a wall “NPC move bruh”

“It’s giving main character vibes” Could be good or bad. Mostly bad, because someone could be putting you in your place.”

“Jackson has main character rizz. He’s always the center of attention. He’s so funny. But Rodney is always trying to be a main character… so dumb..”

OP here. I have heard my younger son talk about NPCs. I have also heard my older son call girls basic. They both hang out with the athletic kids since they are both athletes. My older son hangs out with the smart athletes. My younger son hangs out with the cool athletes who are not the best students. When I mention some of the kids I know from elementary, he will often say he doesn’t see him around or that he hangs out in X group, a group he has determined that he doesn’t want to be in.

Wow, sounds like your son ITA.

OP you are insufferable.

Did you ask this question because your kids are popular, and since they said popular kids are doing drugs, wondering if your kids are doing drugs? It sounds like they are to keep this status with jerks.

Basic just means average.

Yup, and if you're girl does all the basic things (stanley cup, black leggins, oversized sweatshirts, love T-Swift, etc), then they are basic.

So “basic” is all about physical clothes and accessories?
Nothing to do with being a good/bag athlete or student or musician, etc.

Yes, "basic" just means they dress like everyone else, act like everyone else, are not unique. (I think).

Weird
How can you know if someone is "basic" if you don't really know them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I have to explain NPC to a few of you. It doesn’t have anything to do with online.

You’re a main character or an NPC. Like in a video game, you’re the one in the plot. Or you’re a game extra, just walking along the sidewalk or whatever.

They use these terms like
“Buddy thinks he’s the main character.” So if you’re acting too confident and people don’t think of you as a main character.

“Your outfit is NPC” meaning too basic.

“I know having my Stanley and Air
maxes is sort of NPC, but everyone knows I’m not NPC.”

Bumping into a wall “NPC move bruh”

“It’s giving main character vibes” Could be good or bad. Mostly bad, because someone could be putting you in your place.”

“Jackson has main character rizz. He’s always the center of attention. He’s so funny. But Rodney is always trying to be a main character… so dumb..”

OP here. I have heard my younger son talk about NPCs. I have also heard my older son call girls basic. They both hang out with the athletic kids since they are both athletes. My older son hangs out with the smart athletes. My younger son hangs out with the cool athletes who are not the best students. When I mention some of the kids I know from elementary, he will often say he doesn’t see him around or that he hangs out in X group, a group he has determined that he doesn’t want to be in.

Wow, sounds like your son ITA.

OP you are insufferable.

Did you ask this question because your kids are popular, and since they said popular kids are doing drugs, wondering if your kids are doing drugs? It sounds like they are to keep this status with jerks.

Basic just means average.

Yup, and if you're girl does all the basic things (stanley cup, black leggins, oversized sweatshirts, love T-Swift, etc), then they are basic.

So “basic” is all about physical clothes and accessories?
Nothing to do with being a good/bag athlete or student or musician, etc.

Basic is does not stand out in any way. Not "known" for anything - like being a good athlete, or known to be trendy. Kids that do music/drama are "weird" (coming from my DD who is a good musician), so not basic, but also not someone you'd want to associate with. Emos and furries are another outlier group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I have to explain NPC to a few of you. It doesn’t have anything to do with online.

You’re a main character or an NPC. Like in a video game, you’re the one in the plot. Or you’re a game extra, just walking along the sidewalk or whatever.

They use these terms like
“Buddy thinks he’s the main character.” So if you’re acting too confident and people don’t think of you as a main character.

“Your outfit is NPC” meaning too basic.

“I know having my Stanley and Air
maxes is sort of NPC, but everyone knows I’m not NPC.”

Bumping into a wall “NPC move bruh”

“It’s giving main character vibes” Could be good or bad. Mostly bad, because someone could be putting you in your place.”

“Jackson has main character rizz. He’s always the center of attention. He’s so funny. But Rodney is always trying to be a main character… so dumb..”

OP here. I have heard my younger son talk about NPCs. I have also heard my older son call girls basic. They both hang out with the athletic kids since they are both athletes. My older son hangs out with the smart athletes. My younger son hangs out with the cool athletes who are not the best students. When I mention some of the kids I know from elementary, he will often say he doesn’t see him around or that he hangs out in X group, a group he has determined that he doesn’t want to be in.

Wow, sounds like your son ITA.

OP you are insufferable.

Did you ask this question because your kids are popular, and since they said popular kids are doing drugs, wondering if your kids are doing drugs? It sounds like they are to keep this status with jerks.

Basic just means average.

Yup, and if you're girl does all the basic things (stanley cup, black leggins, oversized sweatshirts, love T-Swift, etc), then they are basic.

So “basic” is all about physical clothes and accessories?
Nothing to do with being a good/bag athlete or student or musician, etc.

Yes, "basic" just means they dress like everyone else, act like everyone else, are not unique. (I think).

Weird
How can you know if someone is "basic" if you don't really know them?

Appearances, mostly. MS kids are HIGHLY judgmental, IME.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are a couple different types of “popular”.

Some kids are “popular” because they’re well respected, are nice & friendly & positive, are smart (and in a community where it’s cool to be smart), and may be very good at a couple things (a sport, music, art). They are mainstream, not dressing up or down or Goth or hip hop or Taylor sweaters. They are comfortable and have a sense of self early on in life.

Then there are the “popular” kids because they rule the roost by being fast, or controlling or act above their age. Kids with nothing to latch on to look up to that and assume it’s cool and popular. Or they are popular because they have tons of lemming followers.

We all know both. Help build your kids’ judgement.

This is so true.

The second kind have much more power in MS and maybe freshman year of HS. At least from what I'm seeing, it seems to dissipate in HS. There were some mean girl jackasses on DD's sports team last year. They were nasty towards DD and some other girls. But none of them wanted to do the hard work required for the team, so they left. 10th grade is much better and now it's DD and other girls who care about academics and athletics. Of course some of them have boyfriends and care about fashion too, but it's not the incessant obsession over boys, critiquing other girls, etc. that happened with some girls last year.

I made sure that DD trusted her own judgment regarding who's worth being friends with and who isn't. This can be tricky territory and IME it's much more than a one-time conversation.