Having kids sucks!

[Anonymous]

We had just written our New Year’s letters to our future selves and I wrote “I hope I always remember how fun my kids were at these ages (7 and 9)”. No sooner had I sealed it, they were fighting and whining and my husband and I just looked at each other and laughed. I’m sure these little squabbles will seem like nothing when I have 12 and 14yr olds.

Kids are expensive, time consuming and often ungrateful. I am not sure why that would be a surprise when so much pop culture reinforces that trope. Was it a surprise, OP, that you also as a man had to make sacrifices and expend effort? Did you think being a dad was just playing catch, grilling out, and making money?

Maybe it’s your marriage, not the kids that’s the issue. My kids can be jerks for sure, but they can also be sweet and loving. What makes it worth it is that my husband and I are in it together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP of this thread. First off I love my kids. But to pretend that I'm not making huge sacrifices everyday would just be straight up delusional.
My kids are 7 and 5 and it's hard! I work a full time job, and DW works we have kids sports, homework, housework, enrichment activities. It's a lot.
My father didn't do half the stuff that I'm doing. When he came home from work we knew to leave him alone. I do not have that luxury. It's like I start a second shift when I get home.
So yes I tell my friends when they ask that it sucks. Will it get better maybe but for now it's pretty rough.

You want a medal or something?

Who exactly did you think did all “this stuff” your dad didn’t do half of? Moms have been working double shifts and then some forever whether they work outside the home or not. Caring for kids / working while they are in school or daycare = job 1. Cooking, cleaning, running the house, planning the BD party, making Christmas Magic, etc. = job 2. Getting your kids to sports and activities and fulfilling your volunteer commitments to support those activities- that part is actually optional. You can sign your kids up for fewer things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are yours still young? The young years are super hard. They get fun most of the time though.

It can be a slog all the way through college. Just depends on the kids.

[Anonymous]

My husband feels like OP and that’s why we have an only.

Basically he’s just more selfish than I ever realized. He just can’t stand to give up his free time to diddle around on his phone. Or clean anything up or be annoyed or uncomfortable for more than a few minutes.

He has a lot of virtues too. Parenting small kids is just not for him.

It’s okay. I married him, and I have one beautiful amazing child. I’m sad about not having more, but everyone’s sad about something. I try to count my blessings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Team OP but this is why I made a conscious decision not to have kids despite all the crap I get from DH’s family, society, even “friends”.

+1

I have a friend with a 3min th old whose husband told her this week that he dreads coming home to the baby. My heart broke for her.

Men really need to start speaking up for themselves if they don't want kids and stop just going along with her plans. I think if more guys were honest these situations would happen a lot less.

I’m a happy mom by choice and I think anyone who tells you they never felt dread when returning to a three month old is a liar. That’s a perfectly valid thing to feel. You don’t have to love being a parent every minute of every stage to be committed to it.

Interesting. No, the baby years were hard but dread would not be the word I would use when I got to take care of my baby every second when she was a baby. But that 0-5 years range is one of the most difficult for sure. I don't know how I survived it mentally and physically with the demands with no proper sleep!

It’s funny because I agree 0-5 is by far the hardest age but if you mention that to parents of teenagers, they insist those are the hardest years and hell on earth. Certainly doesn’t make me look forward to that time!

If it helps, mine are 16 and 18 and it has been much, much easier than dealing with young kids. Hard at times, but nothing like as relentlessly exhausting.

Of course, most American parents make life much harder than it needs to be by not having their kids cook, clean, and get around by bike/public transport, and signing up for too many activities.

American parents have to compensate for underinvestment in children, unlike any other rich, industrialized country:

https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2024/01/america-failed-parents-rich-countries-raising-kids/677023/

(sorry there's a paywall, but maybe someone can post a paywall free link, I don't know how)

I think parents now have to move back towards a better balance. Children should fit into the lives of their parents, not be catered to every moment. Of course some activities are great, but everything needs to be taken into account.

But on this forum, we see this desperation to maintain the UMC lifestyles that require higher and higher levels of investment to achieve. And I think that correlates pretty strongly with misery for parents. Particularly when both parents are working. Because that's 3.5 jobs for two people (2 paying jobs and 1.5 jobs parenting and running the house--I give the machines half a job weight).

Plus, we start off with "Safe Sleep" advice that is very effective from a public health standpoint in reducing infant mortality AND very effective in making sure parents start off their parenting journey on 3-4 hours per night. Talk about a bad mood generator!

At some point, this hedonic treadmill, late stage capitalist nonsense is going to come to an end. And then we are all going to have to live very differently. It's not going to be much fun. And it might result on people having more children again due to labor needs or because people can't access birth control anymore. But I would guess that's at least a century in the future, so I won't be around to see it.

This all sounds dire but I think it's largely correct. American parenting has become much more intensive and time consuming at the same time that economic conditions have shifted to make two-income households not just the norm, but almost unavoidable. Even relatively high earners fear going down to one income because of the high costs of college, healthcare, and retirement. The result is miserable unless you reject some aspects of this dynamic.

For my DH and I, we saw the writing on the wall and made several choices to keep our sanity so we would not wind up like OP and many others on this thread. 1 kid only, one parent working part time only. We make choices to minimize costs so we can hit savings goals faster and the security that brings reduces stress. We make choices about schools and activities for our kid that take our time and energy into account. We reject many of the trappings of UMC parenting because that race feels futile-- very few people win and many people make themselves miserable trying.

There's so little value placed on balance and comfort in American parenting expectations. It's very short sighted. I believe in sacrificing for my child but not sacrificing my own well being. Who does that really benefit? My employer?

Just stop. Opt out. Live in a smaller home, eat out less, slow down. Life doesn't have to look like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP of this thread. First off I love my kids. But to pretend that I'm not making huge sacrifices everyday would just be straight up delusional.
My kids are 7 and 5 and it's hard! I work a full time job, and DW works we have kids sports, homework, housework, enrichment activities. It's a lot.
My father didn't do half the stuff that I'm doing. When he came home from work we knew to leave him alone. I do not have that luxury. It's like I start a second shift when I get home.
So yes I tell my friends when they ask that it sucks. Will it get better maybe but for now it's pretty rough.

You want a medal or something?

Who exactly did you think did all “this stuff” your dad didn’t do half of? Moms have been working double shifts and then some forever whether they work outside the home or not. Caring for kids / working while they are in school or daycare = job 1. Cooking, cleaning, running the house, planning the BD party, making Christmas Magic, etc. = job 2. Getting your kids to sports and activities and fulfilling your volunteer commitments to support those activities- that part is actually optional. You can sign your kids up for fewer things.

In the OP’s defense I would point out that most of us moms complain about the second shift too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Team OP but this is why I made a conscious decision not to have kids despite all the crap I get from DH’s family, society, even “friends”.

SAME! I'm childfree and very happy with my decision. "Friends" tried to suck me in the the lies and bs and they are the ones who are miserable! No thanks! Good luck to you! A real friend would have been honest.

Enjoy your lonely, miserable family-less life, Chelsea Handler.

[Anonymous]

Maybe you can rehome your kids, OP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP of this thread. First off I love my kids. But to pretend that I'm not making huge sacrifices everyday would just be straight up delusional.
My kids are 7 and 5 and it's hard! I work a full time job, and DW works we have kids sports, homework, housework, enrichment activities. It's a lot.
My father didn't do half the stuff that I'm doing. When he came home from work we knew to leave him alone. I do not have that luxury. It's like I start a second shift when I get home.
So yes I tell my friends when they ask that it sucks. Will it get better maybe but for now it's pretty rough.

You want a medal or something?

Who exactly did you think did all “this stuff” your dad didn’t do half of? Moms have been working double shifts and then some forever whether they work outside the home or not. Caring for kids / working while they are in school or daycare = job 1. Cooking, cleaning, running the house, planning the BD party, making Christmas Magic, etc. = job 2. Getting your kids to sports and activities and fulfilling your volunteer commitments to support those activities- that part is actually optional. You can sign your kids up for fewer things.

In the OP’s defense I would point out that most of us moms complain about the second shift too.

But unless OP was blind to all the sitcom jokes and “mommy needs wine” coffee mugs, he was 100% ok with his wife taking on the burden and making sacrifices. But boo boo. He’s “beside himself” over the sacrifices he’s making LOL! It’s just car pool, Daryl. Suck it up or stop signing your kids up for stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are yours still young? The young years are super hard. They get fun most of the time though.

It can be a slog all the way through college. Just depends on the kids.

Not just through college these days. Young adults living in their parents’ basements and/or moving back in with parents after failing at life is more and more common. Not to mention the kids that turn about to be addicts, abusers, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Team OP but this is why I made a conscious decision not to have kids despite all the crap I get from DH’s family, society, even “friends”.

SAME! I'm childfree and very happy with my decision. "Friends" tried to suck me in the the lies and bs and they are the ones who are miserable! No thanks! Good luck to you! A real friend would have been honest.

Enjoy your lonely, miserable family-less life, Chelsea Handler.

My husband and I enjoy our family very much, thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How did you not know before having kids that it'd be hard and expensive?

I didnt know it would be this hard. Every kid is different. Get off your high horse.

But you knew after kid 1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Team OP but this is why I made a conscious decision not to have kids despite all the crap I get from DH’s family, society, even “friends”.

+1

I have a friend with a 3min th old whose husband told her this week that he dreads coming home to the baby. My heart broke for her.

Men really need to start speaking up for themselves if they don't want kids and stop just going along with her plans. I think if more guys were honest these situations would happen a lot less.

I’m a happy mom by choice and I think anyone who tells you they never felt dread when returning to a three month old is a liar. That’s a perfectly valid thing to feel. You don’t have to love being a parent every minute of every stage to be committed to it.

Interesting. No, the baby years were hard but dread would not be the word I would use when I got to take care of my baby every second when she was a baby. But that 0-5 years range is one of the most difficult for sure. I don't know how I survived it mentally and physically with the demands with no proper sleep!

It’s funny because I agree 0-5 is by far the hardest age but if you mention that to parents of teenagers, they insist those are the hardest years and hell on earth. Certainly doesn’t make me look forward to that time!

If it helps, mine are 16 and 18 and it has been much, much easier than dealing with young kids. Hard at times, but nothing like as relentlessly exhausting.

Of course, most American parents make life much harder than it needs to be by not having their kids cook, clean, and get around by bike/public transport, and signing up for too many activities.

American parents have to compensate for underinvestment in children, unlike any other rich, industrialized country:

https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2024/01/america-failed-parents-rich-countries-raising-kids/677023/

(sorry there's a paywall, but maybe someone can post a paywall free link, I don't know how)

I think parents now have to move back towards a better balance. Children should fit into the lives of their parents, not be catered to every moment. Of course some activities are great, but everything needs to be taken into account.

But on this forum, we see this desperation to maintain the UMC lifestyles that require higher and higher levels of investment to achieve. And I think that correlates pretty strongly with misery for parents. Particularly when both parents are working. Because that's 3.5 jobs for two people (2 paying jobs and 1.5 jobs parenting and running the house--I give the machines half a job weight).

Plus, we start off with "Safe Sleep" advice that is very effective from a public health standpoint in reducing infant mortality AND very effective in making sure parents start off their parenting journey on 3-4 hours per night. Talk about a bad mood generator!

At some point, this hedonic treadmill, late stage capitalist nonsense is going to come to an end. And then we are all going to have to live very differently. It's not going to be much fun. And it might result on people having more children again due to labor needs or because people can't access birth control anymore. But I would guess that's at least a century in the future, so I won't be around to see it.

This all sounds dire but I think it's largely correct. American parenting has become much more intensive and time consuming at the same time that economic conditions have shifted to make two-income households not just the norm, but almost unavoidable. Even relatively high earners fear going down to one income because of the high costs of college, healthcare, and retirement. The result is miserable unless you reject some aspects of this dynamic.

For my DH and I, we saw the writing on the wall and made several choices to keep our sanity so we would not wind up like OP and many others on this thread. 1 kid only, one parent working part time only. We make choices to minimize costs so we can hit savings goals faster and the security that brings reduces stress. We make choices about schools and activities for our kid that take our time and energy into account. We reject many of the trappings of UMC parenting because that race feels futile-- very few people win and many people make themselves miserable trying.

There's so little value placed on balance and comfort in American parenting expectations. It's very short sighted. I believe in sacrificing for my child but not sacrificing my own well being. Who does that really benefit? My employer?

Just stop. Opt out. Live in a smaller home, eat out less, slow down. Life doesn't have to look like that.

You're right of course. It's the only solution we're left with. But swimming against the cultural tide is very difficult. People are shaped by their culture. So you can't purely "opt out." You can be aware.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe you can rehome your kids, OP?

Not OP, but that is incredibly hard to do. It's wildly implausible to be allowed to relinquish rights to the state, and very, very hard to get them adopted if they are old or have special needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP of this thread. First off I love my kids. But to pretend that I'm not making huge sacrifices everyday would just be straight up delusional.
My kids are 7 and 5 and it's hard! I work a full time job, and DW works we have kids sports, homework, housework, enrichment activities. It's a lot.
My father didn't do half the stuff that I'm doing. When he came home from work we knew to leave him alone. I do not have that luxury. It's like I start a second shift when I get home.
So yes I tell my friends when they ask that it sucks. Will it get better maybe but for now it's pretty rough.

Facts! Dad’s back in the didn’t do half the sh#t dads do today. It makes a difference and no wonder they had 10 kids back then. Dads are expected to split half the duties now days! Im glad OP is telling his friends the truth!

oh ffs, women have been doing double duty for decades.

you men are such wusses.

Don't have kids.