Having kids sucks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Team OP but this is why I made a conscious decision not to have kids despite all the crap I get from DH’s family, society, even “friends”.

+1

I have a friend with a 3min th old whose husband told her this week that he dreads coming home to the baby. My heart broke for her.

Truthfully a lot of men don’t enjoy babies but do enjoy kids when they are older.

Truthfully a lot of men should share their ugly thoughts with their therapists.

Truthfully, a lot of men should not have kids, period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Team OP but this is why I made a conscious decision not to have kids despite all the crap I get from DH’s family, society, even “friends”.

+1

I have a friend with a 3min th old whose husband told her this week that he dreads coming home to the baby. My heart broke for her.

Men really need to start speaking up for themselves if they don't want kids and stop just going along with her plans. I think if more guys were honest these situations would happen a lot less.

I’m a happy mom by choice and I think anyone who tells you they never felt dread when returning to a three month old is a liar. That’s a perfectly valid thing to feel. You don’t have to love being a parent every minute of every stage to be committed to it.

Interesting. No, the baby years were hard but dread would not be the word I would use when I got to take care of my baby every second when she was a baby. But that 0-5 years range is one of the most difficult for sure. I don't know how I survived it mentally and physically with the demands with no proper sleep!

It’s funny because I agree 0-5 is by far the hardest age but if you mention that to parents of teenagers, they insist those are the hardest years and hell on earth. Certainly doesn’t make me look forward to that time!

If it helps, mine are 16 and 18 and it has been much, much easier than dealing with young kids. Hard at times, but nothing like as relentlessly exhausting.

Of course, most American parents make life much harder than it needs to be by not having their kids cook, clean, and get around by bike/public transport, and signing up for too many activities.

American parents have to compensate for underinvestment in children, unlike any other rich, industrialized country:

https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2024/01/america-failed-parents-rich-countries-raising-kids/677023/

(sorry there's a paywall, but maybe someone can post a paywall free link, I don't know how)

I think parents now have to move back towards a better balance. Children should fit into the lives of their parents, not be catered to every moment. Of course some activities are great, but everything needs to be taken into account.

But on this forum, we see this desperation to maintain the UMC lifestyles that require higher and higher levels of investment to achieve. And I think that correlates pretty strongly with misery for parents. Particularly when both parents are working. Because that's 3.5 jobs for two people (2 paying jobs and 1.5 jobs parenting and running the house--I give the machines half a job weight).

Plus, we start off with "Safe Sleep" advice that is very effective from a public health standpoint in reducing infant mortality AND very effective in making sure parents start off their parenting journey on 3-4 hours per night. Talk about a bad mood generator!

At some point, this hedonic treadmill, late stage capitalist nonsense is going to come to an end. And then we are all going to have to live very differently. It's not going to be much fun. And it might result on people having more children again due to labor needs or because people can't access birth control anymore. But I would guess that's at least a century in the future, so I won't be around to see it.

This all sounds dire but I think it's largely correct. American parenting has become much more intensive and time consuming at the same time that economic conditions have shifted to make two-income households not just the norm, but almost unavoidable. Even relatively high earners fear going down to one income because of the high costs of college, healthcare, and retirement. The result is miserable unless you reject some aspects of this dynamic.

For my DH and I, we saw the writing on the wall and made several choices to keep our sanity so we would not wind up like OP and many others on this thread. 1 kid only, one parent working part time only. We make choices to minimize costs so we can hit savings goals faster and the security that brings reduces stress. We make choices about schools and activities for our kid that take our time and energy into account. We reject many of the trappings of UMC parenting because that race feels futile-- very few people win and many people make themselves miserable trying.

There's so little value placed on balance and comfort in American parenting expectations. It's very short sighted. I believe in sacrificing for my child but not sacrificing my own well being. Who does that really benefit? My employer?

Just stop. Opt out. Live in a smaller home, eat out less, slow down. Life doesn't have to look like that.

You're right of course. It's the only solution we're left with. But swimming against the cultural tide is very difficult. People are shaped by their culture. So you can't purely "opt out." You can be aware.

Yes, you can. You choose not to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There I said it. I'm a father of two and I'm just beside myself at the sacrifices that I'm having to make to raise two kids. If I'd known it was going to be this much work I would've had 1 child or none at all.
I've been telling most of my childless friends not to have kids (when they ask). DW overheard me saying that and
got mad and claimed that "I don't love our family". We had a spirited discussion and now she's giving me funny looks. But I can't be the only one that things having kids is way too much work and might not be worth it.

Your kids will be saying "having the father I did sucked". You sound selfish. Did you think life would always be all about uou?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP of this thread. First off I love my kids. But to pretend that I'm not making huge sacrifices everyday would just be straight up delusional.
My kids are 7 and 5 and it's hard! I work a full time job, and DW works we have kids sports, homework, housework, enrichment activities. It's a lot.
My father didn't do half the stuff that I'm doing. When he came home from work we knew to leave him alone. I do not have that luxury. It's like I start a second shift when I get home.
So yes I tell my friends when they ask that it sucks. Will it get better maybe but for now it's pretty rough.

You want a medal or something?

Who exactly did you think did all “this stuff” your dad didn’t do half of? Moms have been working double shifts and then some forever whether they work outside the home or not. Caring for kids / working while they are in school or daycare = job 1. Cooking, cleaning, running the house, planning the BD party, making Christmas Magic, etc. = job 2. Getting your kids to sports and activities and fulfilling your volunteer commitments to support those activities- that part is actually optional. You can sign your kids up for fewer things.

In the OP’s defense I would point out that most of us moms complain about the second shift too.

Indeed, but do you regret having kids, and tell your childless friends to not have them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So stop having kids then, let all the migrants and immigrants in and take over the country.

You mean like the migrants and immigrants who have been taking over this country since my great grandfather arrived in 1620?

[Anonymous]

It's hard, it sucks, but this morning my children ran downstairs and jumped on me with a hug attack, and that was worth all the struggle and 9am basketball games.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP of this thread. First off I love my kids. But to pretend that I'm not making huge sacrifices everyday would just be straight up delusional.
My kids are 7 and 5 and it's hard! I work a full time job, and DW works we have kids sports, homework, housework, enrichment activities. It's a lot.
My father didn't do half the stuff that I'm doing. When he came home from work we knew to leave him alone. I do not have that luxury. It's like I start a second shift when I get home.
So yes I tell my friends when they ask that it sucks. Will it get better maybe but for now it's pretty rough.

You want a medal or something?

Who exactly did you think did all “this stuff” your dad didn’t do half of? Moms have been working double shifts and then some forever whether they work outside the home or not. Caring for kids / working while they are in school or daycare = job 1. Cooking, cleaning, running the house, planning the BD party, making Christmas Magic, etc. = job 2. Getting your kids to sports and activities and fulfilling your volunteer commitments to support those activities- that part is actually optional. You can sign your kids up for fewer things.

In the OP’s defense I would point out that most of us moms complain about the second shift too.

Indeed, but do you regret having kids, and tell your childless friends to not have them?

What's your point? Those feelings aren't valid? Because everyone should want kids? I don't get what you're suggesting here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Team OP but this is why I made a conscious decision not to have kids despite all the crap I get from DH’s family, society, even “friends”.

+1

I have a friend with a 3min th old whose husband told her this week that he dreads coming home to the baby. My heart broke for her.

Men really need to start speaking up for themselves if they don't want kids and stop just going along with her plans. I think if more guys were honest these situations would happen a lot less.

I’m a happy mom by choice and I think anyone who tells you they never felt dread when returning to a three month old is a liar. That’s a perfectly valid thing to feel. You don’t have to love being a parent every minute of every stage to be committed to it.

Interesting. No, the baby years were hard but dread would not be the word I would use when I got to take care of my baby every second when she was a baby. But that 0-5 years range is one of the most difficult for sure. I don't know how I survived it mentally and physically with the demands with no proper sleep!

It’s funny because I agree 0-5 is by far the hardest age but if you mention that to parents of teenagers, they insist those are the hardest years and hell on earth. Certainly doesn’t make me look forward to that time!

If it helps, mine are 16 and 18 and it has been much, much easier than dealing with young kids. Hard at times, but nothing like as relentlessly exhausting.

Of course, most American parents make life much harder than it needs to be by not having their kids cook, clean, and get around by bike/public transport, and signing up for too many activities.

American parents have to compensate for underinvestment in children, unlike any other rich, industrialized country:

https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2024/01/america-failed-parents-rich-countries-raising-kids/677023/

(sorry there's a paywall, but maybe someone can post a paywall free link, I don't know how)

I think parents now have to move back towards a better balance. Children should fit into the lives of their parents, not be catered to every moment. Of course some activities are great, but everything needs to be taken into account.

But on this forum, we see this desperation to maintain the UMC lifestyles that require higher and higher levels of investment to achieve. And I think that correlates pretty strongly with misery for parents. Particularly when both parents are working. Because that's 3.5 jobs for two people (2 paying jobs and 1.5 jobs parenting and running the house--I give the machines half a job weight).

Plus, we start off with "Safe Sleep" advice that is very effective from a public health standpoint in reducing infant mortality AND very effective in making sure parents start off their parenting journey on 3-4 hours per night. Talk about a bad mood generator!

At some point, this hedonic treadmill, late stage capitalist nonsense is going to come to an end. And then we are all going to have to live very differently. It's not going to be much fun. And it might result on people having more children again due to labor needs or because people can't access birth control anymore. But I would guess that's at least a century in the future, so I won't be around to see it.

This all sounds dire but I think it's largely correct. American parenting has become much more intensive and time consuming at the same time that economic conditions have shifted to make two-income households not just the norm, but almost unavoidable. Even relatively high earners fear going down to one income because of the high costs of college, healthcare, and retirement. The result is miserable unless you reject some aspects of this dynamic.

For my DH and I, we saw the writing on the wall and made several choices to keep our sanity so we would not wind up like OP and many others on this thread. 1 kid only, one parent working part time only. We make choices to minimize costs so we can hit savings goals faster and the security that brings reduces stress. We make choices about schools and activities for our kid that take our time and energy into account. We reject many of the trappings of UMC parenting because that race feels futile-- very few people win and many people make themselves miserable trying.

There's so little value placed on balance and comfort in American parenting expectations. It's very short sighted. I believe in sacrificing for my child but not sacrificing my own well being. Who does that really benefit? My employer?

Just stop. Opt out. Live in a smaller home, eat out less, slow down. Life doesn't have to look like that.

You're right of course. It's the only solution we're left with. But swimming against the cultural tide is very difficult. People are shaped by their culture. So you can't purely "opt out." You can be aware.

Yes, you can. You choose not to.

DP here. I love my kids and don’t feel like OP. But we too actively try to avoid many of the traps people fall into. But unlike you I acknowledge that it’s very very hard to do so and you have to continuously choose it over and over again against a society telling you to do otherwise. In itself it can be exhausting.

[Anonymous]

OP’s post is very refreshing and hopefully will raise awareness about the difficulties and expensiveness of Modern Day parenting. Dads are expected to be more involved now days. So I understand why older generations had more children. OP’s experience is his truth. And PP is correct that he should not have had kids, so hopefully his sharing will help others when deciding to have kids. Society has bern lopsided for years encouraging adults to have kids. I have two myself but I am happy people are sharing the downsides of parenting that were not shared in the past.

It’s not for everyone so encourage OP to keep sharing his truth for others as you can continue sharing yours. There are two sides to a story…and then the truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DH left over this. He’s actually a really good Dad but he decided he’d rather not have any constraints on his time.

I hope you have him the 50/50 custody he deserved!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP of this thread. First off I love my kids. But to pretend that I'm not making huge sacrifices everyday would just be straight up delusional.
My kids are 7 and 5 and it's hard! I work a full time job, and DW works we have kids sports, homework, housework, enrichment activities. It's a lot.
My father didn't do half the stuff that I'm doing. When he came home from work we knew to leave him alone. I do not have that luxury. It's like I start a second shift when I get home.
So yes I tell my friends when they ask that it sucks. Will it get better maybe but for now it's pretty rough.

You want a medal or something?

Who exactly did you think did all “this stuff” your dad didn’t do half of? Moms have been working double shifts and then some forever whether they work outside the home or not. Caring for kids / working while they are in school or daycare = job 1. Cooking, cleaning, running the house, planning the BD party, making Christmas Magic, etc. = job 2. Getting your kids to sports and activities and fulfilling your volunteer commitments to support those activities- that part is actually optional. You can sign your kids up for fewer things.

In the OP’s defense I would point out that most of us moms complain about the second shift too.

Indeed, but do you regret having kids, and tell your childless friends to not have them?

What's your point? Those feelings aren't valid? Because everyone should want kids? I don't get what you're suggesting here.

People do regret having kids sweetie. You may not, but people do…it’s an unfortunate reality of parenting.

[Anonymous]

Just have one. It's totally manageable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Team OP but this is why I made a conscious decision not to have kids despite all the crap I get from DH’s family, society, even “friends”.

+1

I have a friend with a 3min th old whose husband told her this week that he dreads coming home to the baby. My heart broke for her.

Truthfully a lot of men don’t enjoy babies but do enjoy kids when they are older.

Truthfully a lot of men should share their ugly thoughts with their therapists.

Truthfully, a lot of men should not have kids, period.

Ok Captain Obvious. As well as some women…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP of this thread. First off I love my kids. But to pretend that I'm not making huge sacrifices everyday would just be straight up delusional.
My kids are 7 and 5 and it's hard! I work a full time job, and DW works we have kids sports, homework, housework, enrichment activities. It's a lot.
My father didn't do half the stuff that I'm doing. When he came home from work we knew to leave him alone. I do not have that luxury. It's like I start a second shift when I get home.
So yes I tell my friends when they ask that it sucks. Will it get better maybe but for now it's pretty rough.

If it is taking a toll on your marriage and relationships, STOP with the crazy train of sports and enrichment. Make your activity a nightly walk around the neighborhood together. Go out for ice cream

Your father didn't do stuff because, let me guess, you had a stay at home mom? Would you like your wife to quit her job and SAH so you can expect to relax in the evenings?

Also I was a single mom who worked outside the home and commuted for years, now my kids are flown. Trust me the days are hard and drag, but the years fly by. Your life is not over - this is temporary. Try to slow down and find a way to enjoy your kids while you can.

Also, please get a vasectomy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We had just written our New Year’s letters to our future selves and I wrote “I hope I always remember how fun my kids were at these ages (7 and 9)”. No sooner had I sealed it, they were fighting and whining and my husband and I just looked at each other and laughed. I’m sure these little squabbles will seem like nothing when I have 12 and 14yr olds.

Kids are expensive, time consuming and often ungrateful. I am not sure why that would be a surprise when so much pop culture reinforces that trope. Was it a surprise, OP, that you also as a man had to make sacrifices and expend effort? Did you think being a dad was just playing catch, grilling out, and making money?

Maybe it’s your marriage, not the kids that’s the issue. My kids can be jerks for sure, but they can also be sweet and loving. What makes it worth it is that my husband and I are in it together.

That’s what is used to be for Dad’s. Im not sure when all these demands started happening for Dad’s. Now that women can work they are expecting to much of men as dad’s. That is mistake number one. Lower your expectations.