DH and I at odds over children

[Anonymous]

Why do people suggest freezing eggs? Not many people want to be the granny-old-mom. It's not natural for a reason.

OP. Divorce. Get a sperm donor or just move on quickly. Don't tie yourself to a deadbeat with a kid. If you do the kid will have traits that constantly remind you of him.

[Anonymous]

I’d be curious what the man hating club would say about a marriage where the man and woman both agreed about wanting kids before marriage - but a few years in, the woman was unable or unwilling to have kids. Would this be grounds for a divorce? Would there be so much vitriol for the woman?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’d be curious what the man hating club would say about a marriage where the man and woman both agreed about wanting kids before marriage - but a few years in, the woman was unable or unwilling to have kids. Would this be grounds for a divorce? Would there be so much vitriol for the woman?

I don't hate men at all, and do think OP should consider divorce here. People seem to have a primal urge to want kids - a yearning that I do think can sort of overcome your whole life, if it's not fulfilled. I've never felt that urge - I'd have been ok having a kid if my spouse wanted one, but I'm cool that he didn't. But talking to people who desperately want kids - I don't see this as being something you can just sort of decide you're ok with not doing.

Re: what if OP were a man? I think people would also counsel divorce - but maybe not with the same urgency. Men just have longer to make it happen. It's just how it is.

[Anonymous]

Kids only make a marriage harder. Do not have children unless you are both 100% on board. It's not fair to whatever child/ren you bring into this world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’d be curious what the man hating club would say about a marriage where the man and woman both agreed about wanting kids before marriage - but a few years in, the woman was unable or unwilling to have kids. Would this be grounds for a divorce? Would there be so much vitriol for the woman?

Unable is very different than unwilling. If OP's DH was infertile nobody would be calling him a liar. But if either party convinces the other to get married on the basis of wanting to build a family with them, and then a couple of years later says, "turns out: nah", that person sucks and the deceived party should cut bait.

It's worse when a man does it because in your "a few years in" hypothetical, he's usually using up his fiancee/wife's fertile years while he lies, and just "deciding" that he actually doesn't want kids right when she's running out of time to find someone new and make the life she wanted and he agreed to make with her happen with anyone, or at all. It's very calculating and selfish, bordering on hateful. Men who divorce because they want kids and their wife did not can just: go date, meet someone, and eventually have some. There's no automatic IVF or ART or end-of-the-road angst or just-one-if-you-get-lucky or adoption or donors. Just another woman, probably 5-10 years younger than the first one was, and the family he wanted. So what you're seeing as man-hating vitriol is a reaction to the fact that even gender-swapping this scenario doesn't create the same burdens on your imaginary duped DH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’d be curious what the man hating club would say about a marriage where the man and woman both agreed about wanting kids before marriage - but a few years in, the woman was unable or unwilling to have kids. Would this be grounds for a divorce? Would there be so much vitriol for the woman?

I mean, I know men in this exact situation (first wife didn't want kids). He divorced, remarried and became a dad. This is one of those issues where you really have to divorce -- you can't force someone to have a kid, and if you want one you shouldn't be kept from experiencing that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d be curious what the man hating club would say about a marriage where the man and woman both agreed about wanting kids before marriage - but a few years in, the woman was unable or unwilling to have kids. Would this be grounds for a divorce? Would there be so much vitriol for the woman?

I mean, I know men in this exact situation (first wife didn't want kids). He divorced, remarried and became a dad. This is one of those issues where you really have to divorce -- you can't force someone to have a kid, and if you want one you shouldn't be kept from experiencing that.

This. It is not a situation where compromise is possible. I don't see how you can possibly have a happy marriage where one person very much wants children and the other does not. Either you have kids and the no-kids parent resents them and the spouse or you don't and the kid-wanting spouse regrets that loss all their life.

I would tell a man in same situation to leave and find a partner who wants the same thing.

Infertility is a different discussion - then you want kids and it's about figuring out the path to get there, IVF, donor eggs, adoption, or agreeing together that you will have a life without them. If the wife decided she wasn't open to alternative options and would rather not have kids then I think it's totally reasonable for the husband to decide kids are too important to him and he has to find a different partner. And I'd say the same if an infertile husband wanted to remain childless rather than use donor sperm.

DH and I talked about desire for kids on our 2nd date. I was 30 and he was 35 and we both understood we were not looking to waste time with someone who didn't have the same life goals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He's not going to have an epiphany over the weekend. That was his way of blowing you off. Your choices are go off birth control or get a divorce. In fact I would say "I am going off birth control as my personal choice. If you choose to have sex with me, be aware I may become pregnant. If that is a problem for you, I understand if you need anything file for divorce."

I’ve seen this advice on here before and it’s absolutely bonkers.

People are allowed to change their mind about kids. Kids are a huge f’ing deal. People who act flippant about the decision to have kids are not the kind of people you want to have kids with. I don’t know any men who are particularly happy with their marriages and lives post kids (the nicer husbands accept it, but aren’t happy about it). It is rational for men to be wary about this decision.

On the flip side, op is entitled to use the info and make her own decisions.

But don’t stop using BC. You’re insane if you do that.

WTF?? My marriage and three kids are the best things that have ever happened to me, followed closely by being born to great parents. I don’t deserve what I have, but I’m definitely extremely happy about it.

My dh is much happier post kids. He was made to be a dad.

I hate when people speak for their spouses. You really don't know.

[Anonymous]

Just start working on your exit plan. He knows how desperately you want this. He is not able/willing to give you the answer you want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having kids is so overrated, and I love my child. OP, try to think more creatively about life. You promised to love your spouse forever.

I think it’s underrated. I have a reasonably successful career, I have some hobbies, I like to read, I’m involved in our community. DW and I love each other.

But nothing compares to raising our kids. I could walk off my job right now, I’d be replaced in a week and largely forgotten in a year.

Rearing a successive generation is pretty much the only thing 99.999% of us are going to do that holds any significance.

Agree! Always thought I’d have kids but then DH and I were enjoying the DINK like so much we considered skipping the whole kids/parenting thing. So glad we didn’t. Our two kids (now teen and tween) are our everything. It’s hard work but by far the most rewarding thing I’ve ever done!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He's not going to have an epiphany over the weekend. That was his way of blowing you off. Your choices are go off birth control or get a divorce. In fact I would say "I am going off birth control as my personal choice. If you choose to have sex with me, be aware I may become pregnant. If that is a problem for you, I understand if you need anything file for divorce."

I’ve seen this advice on here before and it’s absolutely bonkers.

People are allowed to change their mind about kids. Kids are a huge f’ing deal. People who act flippant about the decision to have kids are not the kind of people you want to have kids with. I don’t know any men who are particularly happy with their marriages and lives post kids (the nicer husbands accept it, but aren’t happy about it). It is rational for men to be wary about this decision.

On the flip side, op is entitled to use the info and make her own decisions.

But don’t stop using BC. You’re insane if you do that.

WTF?? My marriage and three kids are the best things that have ever happened to me, followed closely by being born to great parents. I don’t deserve what I have, but I’m definitely extremely happy about it.

My dh is much happier post kids. He was made to be a dad.

I hate when people speak for their spouses. You really don't know.

In a good or even decent marriage, most people can pretty adequately assess their spouse’s level of happiness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am always fascinated by women who are willing to divorce to have a baby. Presumably you loved your DH a ton to marry them and commit to spending your life with them. And now you’d rather not have that person in your life for the theoretical baby that doesn’t yet exist?

If you’re willing to divorce over this, I’m guessing you weren’t that into your DH when you married, and saw it as transactional.

The purpose of my marriage was to provide the best environment…to have kids. It was fundamental to the decision to marry and its entire purpose. Trying to have kids was nonnegotiable for me because it was my understanding of our decision to get married.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP's DH has every right to change his mind about becoming a father after marriage but then he should include cost of freezing and storing her eggs until she finds a partner who actually knows what he wants and can stick to it.

As far as advice about just stopping birth control goes, that's stupid and fraudulent. It would ruin not one but three lives.

I don’t think she should go off birth control but I do think if he is the one that doesn’t wants children, he should be considering a vasectomy. Most of the options, freezing eggs, staying on birth control every month for something he wants, not her, delaying even more years to see if he changes his mind again to have children moving her to a high risk pregnancy category due to age - it’s putting the burden on her, with little impact on him, for his decision.

Agree about the burden. I was the PP who said she should inform him she's going off BC.

Right now they have the marriage he wants with an active sex life and no kids. She is the one who has the burden of her fertility waning. She has to ask Dh, convince him, gently cajole, and figure out how to remind him to think about his decion. She has the burden of figuring out if he's ever going to agree and if it's worth a divorce, and when to file for divorce. All he has to do is say he's still thinking about it.

If she chooses, openly, to stop taking a medication, which she has every right to do, suddenly the burden is on him. He has to decide if it's worth risking pregnancy when he wants sex. He has to decide on condoms or a vasectomy. A vasectomy is a commitment to deciding not to have children so now he's the one who has to confront his fertility. He's got to decide if he can deal with her plan or if this is worth a divorce, and start looking for an attorney. Or maybe having a kid isn't that bad of a risk afterall. But now he's actually got to take an active part in making a decision.

The problem is what happens next.
What happens when you have a baby with someone who didn’t want one? Will he support you during your pregnancy, be an active co parent, help manage the chores and tasks a child brings, be emotionally attentive to his child? How would this strain impact your marriage? How would a divorce impact a child? There’s so much more to this train of thought than just the pregnancy. It’s the dynamic you are entering into for the next 18 years if a child results from it and whether that’s the road you want to go down, with someone who is not interested in fatherhood.

And why is that exclusively the problem of OP? Seems to me that her DH, should he not take any actions to avoid pregnancy (use a condom, have a vasectomy), is equally responsible for the strain, divorce, chores etc. It is not OPs job to medicate herself for his convenience.

The problem is the child’s not OP’s. Does she want to bring a child into the world in that dynamic? I’d suggest no. Stomping your feet and saying it’s not fair isn’t going to make OP’s spouse take up his half or the strain and chores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP's DH has every right to change his mind about becoming a father after marriage but then he should include cost of freezing and storing her eggs until she finds a partner who actually knows what he wants and can stick to it.

As far as advice about just stopping birth control goes, that's stupid and fraudulent. It would ruin not one but three lives.

I don’t think she should go off birth control but I do think if he is the one that doesn’t wants children, he should be considering a vasectomy. Most of the options, freezing eggs, staying on birth control every month for something he wants, not her, delaying even more years to see if he changes his mind again to have children moving her to a high risk pregnancy category due to age - it’s putting the burden on her, with little impact on him, for his decision.

Agree about the burden. I was the PP who said she should inform him she's going off BC.

Right now they have the marriage he wants with an active sex life and no kids. She is the one who has the burden of her fertility waning. She has to ask Dh, convince him, gently cajole, and figure out how to remind him to think about his decion. She has the burden of figuring out if he's ever going to agree and if it's worth a divorce, and when to file for divorce. All he has to do is say he's still thinking about it.

If she chooses, openly, to stop taking a medication, which she has every right to do, suddenly the burden is on him. He has to decide if it's worth risking pregnancy when he wants sex. He has to decide on condoms or a vasectomy. A vasectomy is a commitment to deciding not to have children so now he's the one who has to confront his fertility. He's got to decide if he can deal with her plan or if this is worth a divorce, and start looking for an attorney. Or maybe having a kid isn't that bad of a risk afterall. But now he's actually got to take an active part in making a decision.

The problem is what happens next.
What happens when you have a baby with someone who didn’t want one? Will he support you during your pregnancy, be an active co parent, help manage the chores and tasks a child brings, be emotionally attentive to his child? How would this strain impact your marriage? How would a divorce impact a child? There’s so much more to this train of thought than just the pregnancy. It’s the dynamic you are entering into for the next 18 years if a child results from it and whether that’s the road you want to go down, with someone who is not interested in fatherhood.

OK, so he'd be a lame half-assed father like the majority of men I know. Worst case, they divorce, and at least she'd still have a kid. If she divorces now, she could be left with neither a husband or kid.

She could, or she could find someone willing to have a child with her and raise that child in a healthier, happier family. Life is about risks but it’s also about decision making and deciding what’s right for both you and your future children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’d be curious what the man hating club would say about a marriage where the man and woman both agreed about wanting kids before marriage - but a few years in, the woman was unable or unwilling to have kids. Would this be grounds for a divorce? Would there be so much vitriol for the woman?

I don’t see any man hating in this thread. This is about a dealbreaker in marriage for at least one of the parties, and a fair one.