Gender Tropes, Reluctant Truths

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Self-confident women don’t want “traditionalism”. That’s a mechanism to control women.

I have a “traditional” marriage there is nothing controlling about it. It was my choice. I have a very good life;

Your poor kids.

Why my poor kids?

Reinforced stereotypes & lack of role models.

How is this reinforcing stereotypes? I like being there/picking kids when kids up from school. I like entertaining/hosting/cooking. I enjoy spoiling my husband and he enjoys spoiling me, we have fun and have a great marriage.

Why I am I not role model? I was successful very young, DH is successful, there is no need for both of us to work. Prioritizing, my family time and doing things I enjoy has improved my mental health dramatically. I am not lazy and sitting around all day watching TV, drinking wine, eating cake.

We are specs in a huge universe, outside of very small group of people no one is gong to remember what we did in our careers or care what we accomplished. And in 1000 years even the legacy of current presidents will be mostly unknown.
Having a career outside of the home doesn’t make you a role model. Being a kind, empathetic and well rounded person is the type of role model I fell that I am.

Your kids are learning that women take care of the kids/home/cooking and men work and “spoil” their families. They don’t see you as an independent, successful person. You are an accessory to your DH.

You are happy with your choices, but you are reinforcing stereotypes and not providing a role model of a strong, independent woman.

Do you think an income separate from your husbands is the only thing that makes you independent. How am I not successful, is have it a job outside of the home the only thing that makes someone successful?

I am no one’s “accessory”. And if you read what I wrote; I said we spoil each other in different ways, I didn’t say what those way were, so stop jumping to conclusions.

You have a very narrow minded view of what can take place in a loving, respectful marriage where roles were disused and expectations were mutual agreed upon. We communicated all of this openly.

Traditional roles that reinforce the gender stereotypes.

You’d be independent if you had your own life with significant responsibilities/achievements outside of the home. But you’ve limited your role to inside your home.

What is with all of the assumptions? What significant responsibilities do you have that I don't? You have no idea what my achievements are. My role is not limited to inside the house, I handle a lot of the day to day stuff, but I am not chained to the house by any means.

Who does the cooking, cleaning, laundry, doctor appts, etc?

Your kids see what they see. “Traditional roles” just reinforce gender stereotypes.

You are triggered by gender stereotypes. They work out well for many people.

Yup. Some people very much like overt displays of stereotypical femininity or masculinity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Self-confident women don’t want “traditionalism”. That’s a mechanism to control women.

I have a “traditional” marriage there is nothing controlling about it. It was my choice. I have a very good life;

Your poor kids.

Why my poor kids?

Reinforced stereotypes & lack of role models.

How is this reinforcing stereotypes? I like being there/picking kids when kids up from school. I like entertaining/hosting/cooking. I enjoy spoiling my husband and he enjoys spoiling me, we have fun and have a great marriage.

Why I am I not role model? I was successful very young, DH is successful, there is no need for both of us to work. Prioritizing, my family time and doing things I enjoy has improved my mental health dramatically. I am not lazy and sitting around all day watching TV, drinking wine, eating cake.

We are specs in a huge universe, outside of very small group of people no one is gong to remember what we did in our careers or care what we accomplished. And in 1000 years even the legacy of current presidents will be mostly unknown.
Having a career outside of the home doesn’t make you a role model. Being a kind, empathetic and well rounded person is the type of role model I fell that I am.

Your kids are learning that women take care of the kids/home/cooking and men work and “spoil” their families. They don’t see you as an independent, successful person. You are an accessory to your DH.

You are happy with your choices, but you are reinforcing stereotypes and not providing a role model of a strong, independent woman.

Do you think an income separate from your husbands is the only thing that makes you independent. How am I not successful, is have it a job outside of the home the only thing that makes someone successful?

I am no one’s “accessory”. And if you read what I wrote; I said we spoil each other in different ways, I didn’t say what those way were, so stop jumping to conclusions.

You have a very narrow minded view of what can take place in a loving, respectful marriage where roles were disused and expectations were mutual agreed upon. We communicated all of this openly.

Traditional roles that reinforce the gender stereotypes.

You’d be independent if you had your own life with significant responsibilities/achievements outside of the home. But you’ve limited your role to inside your home.

What is with all of the assumptions? What significant responsibilities do you have that I don't? You have no idea what my achievements are. My role is not limited to inside the house, I handle a lot of the day to day stuff, but I am not chained to the house by any means.

Who does the cooking, cleaning, laundry, doctor appts, etc?

Your kids see what they see. “Traditional roles” just reinforce gender stereotypes.

Yes, better to simply avoid taking care of your kids lest they get ideas of women being nurturing.

Why women being nurturing and not men?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Self-confident women don’t want “traditionalism”. That’s a mechanism to control women.

I have a “traditional” marriage there is nothing controlling about it. It was my choice. I have a very good life;

Your poor kids.

Why my poor kids?

Reinforced stereotypes & lack of role models.

How is this reinforcing stereotypes? I like being there/picking kids when kids up from school. I like entertaining/hosting/cooking. I enjoy spoiling my husband and he enjoys spoiling me, we have fun and have a great marriage.

Why I am I not role model? I was successful very young, DH is successful, there is no need for both of us to work. Prioritizing, my family time and doing things I enjoy has improved my mental health dramatically. I am not lazy and sitting around all day watching TV, drinking wine, eating cake.

We are specs in a huge universe, outside of very small group of people no one is gong to remember what we did in our careers or care what we accomplished. And in 1000 years even the legacy of current presidents will be mostly unknown.
Having a career outside of the home doesn’t make you a role model. Being a kind, empathetic and well rounded person is the type of role model I fell that I am.

Your kids are learning that women take care of the kids/home/cooking and men work and “spoil” their families. They don’t see you as an independent, successful person. You are an accessory to your DH.

You are happy with your choices, but you are reinforcing stereotypes and not providing a role model of a strong, independent woman.

Do you think an income separate from your husbands is the only thing that makes you independent. How am I not successful, is have it a job outside of the home the only thing that makes someone successful?

I am no one’s “accessory”. And if you read what I wrote; I said we spoil each other in different ways, I didn’t say what those way were, so stop jumping to conclusions.

You have a very narrow minded view of what can take place in a loving, respectful marriage where roles were disused and expectations were mutual agreed upon. We communicated all of this openly.

Traditional roles that reinforce the gender stereotypes.

You’d be independent if you had your own life with significant responsibilities/achievements outside of the home. But you’ve limited your role to inside your home.

What is with all of the assumptions? What significant responsibilities do you have that I don't? You have no idea what my achievements are. My role is not limited to inside the house, I handle a lot of the day to day stuff, but I am not chained to the house by any means.

Who does the cooking, cleaning, laundry, doctor appts, etc?

Your kids see what they see. “Traditional roles” just reinforce gender stereotypes.

You are triggered by gender stereotypes. They work out well for many people.

Gender stereotypes are damaging.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Self-confident women don’t want “traditionalism”. That’s a mechanism to control women.

I have a “traditional” marriage there is nothing controlling about it. It was my choice. I have a very good life;

Your poor kids.

Why my poor kids?

Reinforced stereotypes & lack of role models.

How is this reinforcing stereotypes? I like being there/picking kids when kids up from school. I like entertaining/hosting/cooking. I enjoy spoiling my husband and he enjoys spoiling me, we have fun and have a great marriage.

Why I am I not role model? I was successful very young, DH is successful, there is no need for both of us to work. Prioritizing, my family time and doing things I enjoy has improved my mental health dramatically. I am not lazy and sitting around all day watching TV, drinking wine, eating cake.

We are specs in a huge universe, outside of very small group of people no one is gong to remember what we did in our careers or care what we accomplished. And in 1000 years even the legacy of current presidents will be mostly unknown.
Having a career outside of the home doesn’t make you a role model. Being a kind, empathetic and well rounded person is the type of role model I fell that I am.

Your kids are learning that women take care of the kids/home/cooking and men work and “spoil” their families. They don’t see you as an independent, successful person. You are an accessory to your DH.

You are happy with your choices, but you are reinforcing stereotypes and not providing a role model of a strong, independent woman.

Do you think an income separate from your husbands is the only thing that makes you independent. How am I not successful, is have it a job outside of the home the only thing that makes someone successful?

I am no one’s “accessory”. And if you read what I wrote; I said we spoil each other in different ways, I didn’t say what those way were, so stop jumping to conclusions.

You have a very narrow minded view of what can take place in a loving, respectful marriage where roles were disused and expectations were mutual agreed upon. We communicated all of this openly.

Traditional roles that reinforce the gender stereotypes.

You’d be independent if you had your own life with significant responsibilities/achievements outside of the home. But you’ve limited your role to inside your home.

What is with all of the assumptions? What significant responsibilities do you have that I don't? You have no idea what my achievements are. My role is not limited to inside the house, I handle a lot of the day to day stuff, but I am not chained to the house by any means.

Who does the cooking, cleaning, laundry, doctor appts, etc?

Your kids see what they see. “Traditional roles” just reinforce gender stereotypes.

You are triggered by gender stereotypes. They work out well for many people.

Yup. Some people very much like overt displays of stereotypical femininity or masculinity.

Gross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Self-confident women don’t want “traditionalism”. That’s a mechanism to control women.

I have a “traditional” marriage there is nothing controlling about it. It was my choice. I have a very good life;

Your poor kids.

Why my poor kids?

Reinforced stereotypes & lack of role models.

How is this reinforcing stereotypes? I like being there/picking kids when kids up from school. I like entertaining/hosting/cooking. I enjoy spoiling my husband and he enjoys spoiling me, we have fun and have a great marriage.

Why I am I not role model? I was successful very young, DH is successful, there is no need for both of us to work. Prioritizing, my family time and doing things I enjoy has improved my mental health dramatically. I am not lazy and sitting around all day watching TV, drinking wine, eating cake.

We are specs in a huge universe, outside of very small group of people no one is gong to remember what we did in our careers or care what we accomplished. And in 1000 years even the legacy of current presidents will be mostly unknown.
Having a career outside of the home doesn’t make you a role model. Being a kind, empathetic and well rounded person is the type of role model I fell that I am.

Your kids are learning that women take care of the kids/home/cooking and men work and “spoil” their families. They don’t see you as an independent, successful person. You are an accessory to your DH.

You are happy with your choices, but you are reinforcing stereotypes and not providing a role model of a strong, independent woman.

Do you think an income separate from your husbands is the only thing that makes you independent. How am I not successful, is have it a job outside of the home the only thing that makes someone successful?

I am no one’s “accessory”. And if you read what I wrote; I said we spoil each other in different ways, I didn’t say what those way were, so stop jumping to conclusions.

You have a very narrow minded view of what can take place in a loving, respectful marriage where roles were disused and expectations were mutual agreed upon. We communicated all of this openly.

Traditional roles that reinforce the gender stereotypes.

You’d be independent if you had your own life with significant responsibilities/achievements outside of the home. But you’ve limited your role to inside your home.

What is with all of the assumptions? What significant responsibilities do you have that I don't? You have no idea what my achievements are. My role is not limited to inside the house, I handle a lot of the day to day stuff, but I am not chained to the house by any means.

Who does the cooking, cleaning, laundry, doctor appts, etc?

Your kids see what they see. “Traditional roles” just reinforce gender stereotypes.

You are triggered by gender stereotypes. They work out well for many people.

Yup. Some people very much like overt displays of stereotypical femininity or masculinity.

Gross.

Says the person who is afraid to be their sex by birth and can't find any self worth in it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Self-confident women don’t want “traditionalism”. That’s a mechanism to control women.

I have a “traditional” marriage there is nothing controlling about it. It was my choice. I have a very good life;

Your poor kids.

Why my poor kids?

Reinforced stereotypes & lack of role models.

How is this reinforcing stereotypes? I like being there/picking kids when kids up from school. I like entertaining/hosting/cooking. I enjoy spoiling my husband and he enjoys spoiling me, we have fun and have a great marriage.

Why I am I not role model? I was successful very young, DH is successful, there is no need for both of us to work. Prioritizing, my family time and doing things I enjoy has improved my mental health dramatically. I am not lazy and sitting around all day watching TV, drinking wine, eating cake.

We are specs in a huge universe, outside of very small group of people no one is gong to remember what we did in our careers or care what we accomplished. And in 1000 years even the legacy of current presidents will be mostly unknown.
Having a career outside of the home doesn’t make you a role model. Being a kind, empathetic and well rounded person is the type of role model I fell that I am.

Your kids are learning that women take care of the kids/home/cooking and men work and “spoil” their families. They don’t see you as an independent, successful person. You are an accessory to your DH.

You are happy with your choices, but you are reinforcing stereotypes and not providing a role model of a strong, independent woman.

Do you think an income separate from your husbands is the only thing that makes you independent. How am I not successful, is have it a job outside of the home the only thing that makes someone successful?

I am no one’s “accessory”. And if you read what I wrote; I said we spoil each other in different ways, I didn’t say what those way were, so stop jumping to conclusions.

You have a very narrow minded view of what can take place in a loving, respectful marriage where roles were disused and expectations were mutual agreed upon. We communicated all of this openly.

Traditional roles that reinforce the gender stereotypes.

You’d be independent if you had your own life with significant responsibilities/achievements outside of the home. But you’ve limited your role to inside your home.

What is with all of the assumptions? What significant responsibilities do you have that I don't? You have no idea what my achievements are. My role is not limited to inside the house, I handle a lot of the day to day stuff, but I am not chained to the house by any means.

Who does the cooking, cleaning, laundry, doctor appts, etc?

Your kids see what they see. “Traditional roles” just reinforce gender stereotypes.

You are triggered by gender stereotypes. They work out well for many people.

Yup. Some people very much like overt displays of stereotypical femininity or masculinity.

Gross.

I didn't make the rules. All I know is that girls weren't chasing after the sensitive boys in school. Some of them changed their tune when they grew up and were looking for someone with resources. But back when it was all about attraction, they were writing the names of the bigger, stronger, faster, more masculine guys in their notebooks.

[Anonymous]

And it's not like someone can't be a stay at home mom and also ride a motorcycle and compete in triathlons. You job is not your only means of gender roles. Lots of immature people on here. There are entire countries where everyone is not only in their gender role for their job but their entire lifestyle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And it's not like someone can't be a stay at home mom and also ride a motorcycle and compete in triathlons. You job is not your only means of gender roles. Lots of immature people on here. There are entire countries where everyone is not only in their gender role for their job but their entire lifestyle.

I think it bespeaks a certain level of insecurity by certain women (or perhaps regret) when they try to denigrate the choices that other women have made just because they just so happen to conform with "traditional" gender norms. Like they are duty bound to interject themselves into other people's affairs and arrangements, lest their own preferences and choices be somehow deemed inferior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And it's not like someone can't be a stay at home mom and also ride a motorcycle and compete in triathlons. You job is not your only means of gender roles. Lots of immature people on here. There are entire countries where everyone is not only in their gender role for their job but their entire lifestyle.

I think it bespeaks a certain level of insecurity by certain women (or perhaps regret) when they try to denigrate the choices that other women have made just because they just so happen to conform with "traditional" gender norms. Like they are duty bound to interject themselves into other people's affairs and arrangements, lest their own preferences and choices be somehow deemed inferior.

Cynical take: the more I see this kind of stuff the more I'm certain that 2nd -3rd wave Feminism didn't solve any real problems for women but rather shifted the primary manifestations of our anxieties from anxious-attachment to avoidant-attachment. We work outside the home and earn our own income so now we don't need anyone for anything. Men are irrelevant. And we are SO CONTENT. Every relationship--even our own families--is just a battleground for power so you must position yourself accordingly.

[Anonymous]

It's impossible to get away from our biology. Come to terms with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And it's not like someone can't be a stay at home mom and also ride a motorcycle and compete in triathlons. You job is not your only means of gender roles. Lots of immature people on here. There are entire countries where everyone is not only in their gender role for their job but their entire lifestyle.

I think it bespeaks a certain level of insecurity by certain women (or perhaps regret) when they try to denigrate the choices that other women have made just because they just so happen to conform with "traditional" gender norms. Like they are duty bound to interject themselves into other people's affairs and arrangements, lest their own preferences and choices be somehow deemed inferior.

Cynical take: the more I see this kind of stuff the more I'm certain that 2nd -3rd wave Feminism didn't solve any real problems for women but rather shifted the primary manifestations of our anxieties from anxious-attachment to avoidant-attachment. We work outside the home and earn our own income so now we don't need anyone for anything. Men are irrelevant. And we are SO CONTENT. Every relationship--even our own families--is just a battleground for power so you must position yourself accordingly.

I guess I just don't understand the desire to constantly sh*t on other women's choices, especially if these women are content, as you suggest. Why make someone else's relationship dynamics a part of your battleground? Constantly. It doesn't add up.

The whole battleground thing doesn't sound very fun or pleasant, but I guess that's life. Adjust accordingly. The bolded is a pretty interesting theory and I can definitely see a case for it, but it's also kind of sad b/c it sounds like of alienating. For everyone.

Re contentment: How does that square with the rise of anti-depressant use (women moreso than men) and the absolute and relative declines in self-reported happiness from women. Is it the case that the DCUM demo is more professionally successful and upwardly mobile, so they are not succumbing to these trends as much? There is a certain classed tenor to a statement like "men are irrelevant" that I don't think travels quite as well outside of fora like these.

You raise some interesting thoughts. I'll look into the attachment theories more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's impossible to get away from our biology. Come to terms with it.

Umm, what exactly do you mean by this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And it's not like someone can't be a stay at home mom and also ride a motorcycle and compete in triathlons. You job is not your only means of gender roles. Lots of immature people on here. There are entire countries where everyone is not only in their gender role for their job but their entire lifestyle.

I think it bespeaks a certain level of insecurity by certain women (or perhaps regret) when they try to denigrate the choices that other women have made just because they just so happen to conform with "traditional" gender norms. Like they are duty bound to interject themselves into other people's affairs and arrangements, lest their own preferences and choices be somehow deemed inferior.

+1. A lot of my "look at how cool I am liking fast cars and sports, I'm not like the other girls" was just internalized misogyny, turns out. I was conditioned to hate pink and other feminine things because I got the message loud and clear that girl things were lame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's impossible to get away from our biology. Come to terms with it.

Umm, what exactly do you mean by this?

As a woman, the majority of men will be stronger than you physically. As a woman, you have mechanisms in your body to have children and feed them. As a woman, your brain is slightly different biologically as is your body. It doesn't limit you terribly if you don't let it, but it is something to accept.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Self-confident women don’t want “traditionalism”. That’s a mechanism to control women.

I have a “traditional” marriage there is nothing controlling about it. It was my choice. I have a very good life;

Your poor kids.

Why my poor kids?

Reinforced stereotypes & lack of role models.

How is this reinforcing stereotypes? I like being there/picking kids when kids up from school. I like entertaining/hosting/cooking. I enjoy spoiling my husband and he enjoys spoiling me, we have fun and have a great marriage.

Why I am I not role model? I was successful very young, DH is successful, there is no need for both of us to work. Prioritizing, my family time and doing things I enjoy has improved my mental health dramatically. I am not lazy and sitting around all day watching TV, drinking wine, eating cake.

We are specs in a huge universe, outside of very small group of people no one is gong to remember what we did in our careers or care what we accomplished. And in 1000 years even the legacy of current presidents will be mostly unknown.
Having a career outside of the home doesn’t make you a role model. Being a kind, empathetic and well rounded person is the type of role model I fell that I am.

Your kids are learning that women take care of the kids/home/cooking and men work and “spoil” their families. They don’t see you as an independent, successful person. You are an accessory to your DH.

You are happy with your choices, but you are reinforcing stereotypes and not providing a role model of a strong, independent woman.

Do you think an income separate from your husbands is the only thing that makes you independent. How am I not successful, is have it a job outside of the home the only thing that makes someone successful?

I am no one’s “accessory”. And if you read what I wrote; I said we spoil each other in different ways, I didn’t say what those way were, so stop jumping to conclusions.

You have a very narrow minded view of what can take place in a loving, respectful marriage where roles were disused and expectations were mutual agreed upon. We communicated all of this openly.

Traditional roles that reinforce the gender stereotypes.

You’d be independent if you had your own life with significant responsibilities/achievements outside of the home. But you’ve limited your role to inside your home.

What is with all of the assumptions? What significant responsibilities do you have that I don't? You have no idea what my achievements are. My role is not limited to inside the house, I handle a lot of the day to day stuff, but I am not chained to the house by any means.

Who does the cooking, cleaning, laundry, doctor appts, etc?

Your kids see what they see. “Traditional roles” just reinforce gender stereotypes.

You are triggered by gender stereotypes. They work out well for many people.

Yup. Some people very much like overt displays of stereotypical femininity or masculinity.

Gross.

Says the person who is afraid to be their sex by birth and can't find any self worth in it.

I’m not defined by my gender. I’m much more than a reproductive organ.