Gender Tropes, Reluctant Truths

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women don’t really have the option to slack off in school. Most trades and construction careers require physical strength that the average women doesn’t have. It just seems like there are a lot more viable options for a man to forgo attending college.

Are you a man?

No I’m a woman. Additionally, I don’t think women are as likely to be taken seriously if we lack a bachelor’s degree. That is, if one of us attempts to get a white-collar job without one, such as in tech for example.

Oh ok. So are these your "reluctant truths"?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Women who sincerely believe that men are irrelevant and useless, and who are in an economic position to accurately say this, are a very small percentage of the overall population, maybe top 1-2%. 99% of women, ESPECIALLY of child bearing age, are not wealthy enough and will never be wealthy enough to comfortably care for children without outside help. The welfare state helps somewhat with this but at the end of the day nobody who makes the typical young single female salary of like 50k/yr can raise a family on that. Most women need men if they want kids, and even without kids most women are too poor to live a decent lifestyle without a second income. A few rich women bragging about their self made millions on here and dissing the male gender doesn’t change the cold hard truth that the average woman is broke AF.

Even then, men still predominately develop the technologies, fight the wars, do the dirty odd jobs, construction and other thankless jobs and work the law enforcement that make their lives so comfortable in the first place. These men are nameless and faceless to these corporate, rent seeking drones until they need them or something goes wrong though. Calling men irrelevant just shows how far up their own arses these women are. Congrats on making partner!!

Women perform the thankless jobs of childcare, nursing, cooking, teaching, cleaning and are the ones who give birth.

Why can’t we just admit that both genders perform essential tasks and more or less need one another to live a happy, healthy, prosperous life (outside of a few delusional elites who can insulate themselves from reality with $$$)

People perform essential tasks. They shouldn't be limited to certain tasks based on their sex organs.

But they aren't. There is no limitation. That doesn't mean certain things that are based on their sex organs are off limits. Being able to work out of the house doesn't mean you now can't work in the house anymore.

There is in “traditional gender roles”.

And out. According to you, the minute a mom thinks maybe she should make dinner, it's time to think about going out so she's not stuck in the house.

Just referring to the PP who explained that her and her DH have “traditional gender roles”. So in their case there are certain expectations and limitations. If there weren’t they wouldn’t be “traditional”.

I think you're conflating traditional with "expected" or "required". Who knows whether that's the case. It sounds like she likes being in that role -- whether because of social norms, biology, too many Disney movies, enjoying taking care of the family -- and it doesn't sound like she is confined at all.

If she is taking on non-traditional roles then she’s non-traditional. It’s confining by definition; there isn’t someone actually confining her. It’s how she has defined herself.

Woman you are referring to here. I use the word traditional because
- I cook most of the time
- Do most of the laundry
- Handle day to day logistics of the house
- I don’t like using the word submissive, but it is accurate, we have rules
- I make sure I am “presentable“ ever day.
- I defer to my husband on most major decisions out of trust but I also don’t need his permission to make decisions or spend money
- I have various roles in our relationship, wife, lover, friend, muse, sub
- I happily will say I am housewife
- I know my husbands preferences with just about everything and make sure they are met

Among other things

Are you ok doing this while your husband goes away on business trips and has sex with other women? Or men? This is how Ive seen many of these relationships work out. Or like the Stepford wives where they just become robots. Just because you do all these things doesn’t mean you get a loving faithful and high earning husband

I do have a loving, loyal, high earning husband .

He doesn’t cheat on business trips. He has never been a hookup type of man, and he wouldn’t get what he wants out of a quick fling. We always have a long call late evening and typically is on FaceTime with DS helping with homework. Plus we typically have video/phone sex.

My question was would you be? Because right now men make less than women in this country. Men have more addictions and crime. Men still have more infidelity and sex than women. So even if you play a submissive stay at home mom role you are rolling the dice with the person you are with. A great majority of men aren't interested in being high earners, monogamous or controlling their other impulses, and loving to their wives. They like the control too much and don't like to control themselves.

I 100% agree with your assessments. That is why I married DH. I wouldn’t feel that I could be this open and secure with any man. DH feels the same way, I know one of his long term exes and asked him if they had a similar dynamic. He pointed out that she wasn’t strong enough to handle it. Which I was confused by. As he explained though, she was going through the motions for his gratification and to receive the material benefits of the relationship. He said that is the biggest turn off in the world. There is a lot more to that conversation but that is what it came down to. She wasn’t getting emotional benefit out of it, but would never say that. That is why he broke up with her. She wanted to please and please in a sexual way, but that wasn’t where he found pleasure and didn’t want a relationship where sex was the foundation.

He finds pleasure in non sexual ways?

He doesn. But my point was he didn’t did just want the relationship to be about the physical act of sex, he wanted and desires more depth and deeper connection. Having sex for an immediate gratification doesn’t really do anything for him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women who sincerely believe that men are irrelevant and useless, and who are in an economic position to accurately say this, are a very small percentage of the overall population, maybe top 1-2%. 99% of women, ESPECIALLY of child bearing age, are not wealthy enough and will never be wealthy enough to comfortably care for children without outside help. The welfare state helps somewhat with this but at the end of the day nobody who makes the typical young single female salary of like 50k/yr can raise a family on that. Most women need men if they want kids, and even without kids most women are too poor to live a decent lifestyle without a second income. A few rich women bragging about their self made millions on here and dissing the male gender doesn’t change the cold hard truth that the average woman is broke AF.

Even then, men still predominately develop the technologies, fight the wars, do the dirty odd jobs, construction and other thankless jobs and work the law enforcement that make their lives so comfortable in the first place. These men are nameless and faceless to these corporate, rent seeking drones until they need them or something goes wrong though. Calling men irrelevant just shows how far up their own arses these women are. Congrats on making partner!!

Women perform the thankless jobs of childcare, nursing, cooking, teaching, cleaning and are the ones who give birth.

Why can’t we just admit that both genders perform essential tasks and more or less need one another to live a happy, healthy, prosperous life (outside of a few delusional elites who can insulate themselves from reality with $$$)

People perform essential tasks. They shouldn't be limited to certain tasks based on their sex organs.

But they aren't. There is no limitation. That doesn't mean certain things that are based on their sex organs are off limits. Being able to work out of the house doesn't mean you now can't work in the house anymore.

There is in “traditional gender roles”.

And out. According to you, the minute a mom thinks maybe she should make dinner, it's time to think about going out so she's not stuck in the house.

Just referring to the PP who explained that her and her DH have “traditional gender roles”. So in their case there are certain expectations and limitations. If there weren’t they wouldn’t be “traditional”.

I think you're conflating traditional with "expected" or "required". Who knows whether that's the case. It sounds like she likes being in that role -- whether because of social norms, biology, too many Disney movies, enjoying taking care of the family -- and it doesn't sound like she is confined at all.

If she is taking on non-traditional roles then she’s non-traditional. It’s confining by definition; there isn’t someone actually confining her. It’s how she has defined herself.

Woman you are referring to here. I use the word traditional because
- I cook most of the time
- Do most of the laundry
- Handle day to day logistics of the house
- I don’t like using the word submissive, but it is accurate, we have rules
- I make sure I am “presentable“ ever day.
- I defer to my husband on most major decisions out of trust but I also don’t need his permission to make decisions or spend money
- I have various roles in our relationship, wife, lover, friend, muse, sub
- I happily will say I am housewife
- I know my husbands preferences with just about everything and make sure they are met

Among other things

Are you ok doing this while your husband goes away on business trips and has sex with other women? Or men? This is how Ive seen many of these relationships work out. Or like the Stepford wives where they just become robots. Just because you do all these things doesn’t mean you get a loving faithful and high earning husband

I do have a loving, loyal, high earning husband .

He doesn’t cheat on business trips. He has never been a hookup type of man, and he wouldn’t get what he wants out of a quick fling. We always have a long call late evening and typically is on FaceTime with DS helping with homework. Plus we typically have video/phone sex.

My question was would you be? Because right now men make less than women in this country. Men have more addictions and crime. Men still have more infidelity and sex than women. So even if you play a submissive stay at home mom role you are rolling the dice with the person you are with. A great majority of men aren't interested in being high earners, monogamous or controlling their other impulses, and loving to their wives. They like the control too much and don't like to control themselves.

I 100% agree with your assessments. That is why I married DH. I wouldn’t feel that I could be this open and secure with any man. DH feels the same way, I know one of his long term exes and asked him if they had a similar dynamic. He pointed out that she wasn’t strong enough to handle it. Which I was confused by. As he explained though, she was going through the motions for his gratification and to receive the material benefits of the relationship. He said that is the biggest turn off in the world. There is a lot more to that conversation but that is what it came down to. She wasn’t getting emotional benefit out of it, but would never say that. That is why he broke up with her. She wanted to please and please in a sexual way, but that wasn’t where he found pleasure and didn’t want a relationship where sex was the foundation.

What is "it". The only guy I know who has this dynamic with his spouse that I dated previously is someone who was very controlling and sexual and seemed to have lack of control himself so this intrigues me. I know men who are very kind to their wives who stay home, but I don't have a close up relationship with them. I just see them on the outside as being very fair minded.

The “it” is being able to just let go and known everything will be more than ok. Deep vulnerability for both of us. Knowing that every thing he does is dine with a deliberate intent to make your life better and to please. Knowing that the drama that consumes other relationships is something you will never have to deal with. For me “It” is knowing that you are loved and appreciated every minute of everyday. The “it” that his ex didn’t understand was that it wasn’t role-play and that he loves very deeply. There is no ambiguity, you know exactly what he wants and needs. When he tells me I am the most beautiful woman in the world, they are just words, there is a look, and a tone that reassures and makes me take pause to acknowledge internally that this idiot really truly believes that. Dates are perfectly, planned, vacations are thoroughly planned, even on short notice and he makes it look effortless: Some of the deeper details would probably get this thread deleted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women who sincerely believe that men are irrelevant and useless, and who are in an economic position to accurately say this, are a very small percentage of the overall population, maybe top 1-2%. 99% of women, ESPECIALLY of child bearing age, are not wealthy enough and will never be wealthy enough to comfortably care for children without outside help. The welfare state helps somewhat with this but at the end of the day nobody who makes the typical young single female salary of like 50k/yr can raise a family on that. Most women need men if they want kids, and even without kids most women are too poor to live a decent lifestyle without a second income. A few rich women bragging about their self made millions on here and dissing the male gender doesn’t change the cold hard truth that the average woman is broke AF.

Even then, men still predominately develop the technologies, fight the wars, do the dirty odd jobs, construction and other thankless jobs and work the law enforcement that make their lives so comfortable in the first place. These men are nameless and faceless to these corporate, rent seeking drones until they need them or something goes wrong though. Calling men irrelevant just shows how far up their own arses these women are. Congrats on making partner!!

Women perform the thankless jobs of childcare, nursing, cooking, teaching, cleaning and are the ones who give birth.

Why can’t we just admit that both genders perform essential tasks and more or less need one another to live a happy, healthy, prosperous life (outside of a few delusional elites who can insulate themselves from reality with $$$)

People perform essential tasks. They shouldn't be limited to certain tasks based on their sex organs.

But they aren't. There is no limitation. That doesn't mean certain things that are based on their sex organs are off limits. Being able to work out of the house doesn't mean you now can't work in the house anymore.

There is in “traditional gender roles”.

And out. According to you, the minute a mom thinks maybe she should make dinner, it's time to think about going out so she's not stuck in the house.

Just referring to the PP who explained that her and her DH have “traditional gender roles”. So in their case there are certain expectations and limitations. If there weren’t they wouldn’t be “traditional”.

I think you're conflating traditional with "expected" or "required". Who knows whether that's the case. It sounds like she likes being in that role -- whether because of social norms, biology, too many Disney movies, enjoying taking care of the family -- and it doesn't sound like she is confined at all.

If she is taking on non-traditional roles then she’s non-traditional. It’s confining by definition; there isn’t someone actually confining her. It’s how she has defined herself.

Woman you are referring to here. I use the word traditional because
- I cook most of the time
- Do most of the laundry
- Handle day to day logistics of the house
- I don’t like using the word submissive, but it is accurate, we have rules
- I make sure I am “presentable“ ever day.
- I defer to my husband on most major decisions out of trust but I also don’t need his permission to make decisions or spend money
- I have various roles in our relationship, wife, lover, friend, muse, sub
- I happily will say I am housewife
- I know my husbands preferences with just about everything and make sure they are met

Among other things

Are you ok doing this while your husband goes away on business trips and has sex with other women? Or men? This is how Ive seen many of these relationships work out. Or like the Stepford wives where they just become robots. Just because you do all these things doesn’t mean you get a loving faithful and high earning husband

I do have a loving, loyal, high earning husband .

He doesn’t cheat on business trips. He has never been a hookup type of man, and he wouldn’t get what he wants out of a quick fling. We always have a long call late evening and typically is on FaceTime with DS helping with homework. Plus we typically have video/phone sex.

My question was would you be? Because right now men make less than women in this country. Men have more addictions and crime. Men still have more infidelity and sex than women. So even if you play a submissive stay at home mom role you are rolling the dice with the person you are with. A great majority of men aren't interested in being high earners, monogamous or controlling their other impulses, and loving to their wives. They like the control too much and don't like to control themselves.

I 100% agree with your assessments. That is why I married DH. I wouldn’t feel that I could be this open and secure with any man. DH feels the same way, I know one of his long term exes and asked him if they had a similar dynamic. He pointed out that she wasn’t strong enough to handle it. Which I was confused by. As he explained though, she was going through the motions for his gratification and to receive the material benefits of the relationship. He said that is the biggest turn off in the world. There is a lot more to that conversation but that is what it came down to. She wasn’t getting emotional benefit out of it, but would never say that. That is why he broke up with her. She wanted to please and please in a sexual way, but that wasn’t where he found pleasure and didn’t want a relationship where sex was the foundation.

He finds pleasure in non sexual ways?

He doesn. But my point was he didn’t did just want the relationship to be about the physical act of sex, he wanted and desires more depth and deeper connection. Having sex for an immediate gratification doesn’t really do anything for him.

Definitely BDSM/fetish territory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women who sincerely believe that men are irrelevant and useless, and who are in an economic position to accurately say this, are a very small percentage of the overall population, maybe top 1-2%. 99% of women, ESPECIALLY of child bearing age, are not wealthy enough and will never be wealthy enough to comfortably care for children without outside help. The welfare state helps somewhat with this but at the end of the day nobody who makes the typical young single female salary of like 50k/yr can raise a family on that. Most women need men if they want kids, and even without kids most women are too poor to live a decent lifestyle without a second income. A few rich women bragging about their self made millions on here and dissing the male gender doesn’t change the cold hard truth that the average woman is broke AF.

Even then, men still predominately develop the technologies, fight the wars, do the dirty odd jobs, construction and other thankless jobs and work the law enforcement that make their lives so comfortable in the first place. These men are nameless and faceless to these corporate, rent seeking drones until they need them or something goes wrong though. Calling men irrelevant just shows how far up their own arses these women are. Congrats on making partner!!

Women perform the thankless jobs of childcare, nursing, cooking, teaching, cleaning and are the ones who give birth.

Why can’t we just admit that both genders perform essential tasks and more or less need one another to live a happy, healthy, prosperous life (outside of a few delusional elites who can insulate themselves from reality with $$$)

People perform essential tasks. They shouldn't be limited to certain tasks based on their sex organs.

But they aren't. There is no limitation. That doesn't mean certain things that are based on their sex organs are off limits. Being able to work out of the house doesn't mean you now can't work in the house anymore.

There is in “traditional gender roles”.

And out. According to you, the minute a mom thinks maybe she should make dinner, it's time to think about going out so she's not stuck in the house.

Just referring to the PP who explained that her and her DH have “traditional gender roles”. So in their case there are certain expectations and limitations. If there weren’t they wouldn’t be “traditional”.

I think you're conflating traditional with "expected" or "required". Who knows whether that's the case. It sounds like she likes being in that role -- whether because of social norms, biology, too many Disney movies, enjoying taking care of the family -- and it doesn't sound like she is confined at all.

If she is taking on non-traditional roles then she’s non-traditional. It’s confining by definition; there isn’t someone actually confining her. It’s how she has defined herself.

Woman you are referring to here. I use the word traditional because
- I cook most of the time
- Do most of the laundry
- Handle day to day logistics of the house
- I don’t like using the word submissive, but it is accurate, we have rules
- I make sure I am “presentable“ ever day.
- I defer to my husband on most major decisions out of trust but I also don’t need his permission to make decisions or spend money
- I have various roles in our relationship, wife, lover, friend, muse, sub
- I happily will say I am housewife
- I know my husbands preferences with just about everything and make sure they are met

Among other things

Are you ok doing this while your husband goes away on business trips and has sex with other women? Or men? This is how Ive seen many of these relationships work out. Or like the Stepford wives where they just become robots. Just because you do all these things doesn’t mean you get a loving faithful and high earning husband

I do have a loving, loyal, high earning husband .

He doesn’t cheat on business trips. He has never been a hookup type of man, and he wouldn’t get what he wants out of a quick fling. We always have a long call late evening and typically is on FaceTime with DS helping with homework. Plus we typically have video/phone sex.

My question was would you be? Because right now men make less than women in this country. Men have more addictions and crime. Men still have more infidelity and sex than women. So even if you play a submissive stay at home mom role you are rolling the dice with the person you are with. A great majority of men aren't interested in being high earners, monogamous or controlling their other impulses, and loving to their wives. They like the control too much and don't like to control themselves.

I 100% agree with your assessments. That is why I married DH. I wouldn’t feel that I could be this open and secure with any man. DH feels the same way, I know one of his long term exes and asked him if they had a similar dynamic. He pointed out that she wasn’t strong enough to handle it. Which I was confused by. As he explained though, she was going through the motions for his gratification and to receive the material benefits of the relationship. He said that is the biggest turn off in the world. There is a lot more to that conversation but that is what it came down to. She wasn’t getting emotional benefit out of it, but would never say that. That is why he broke up with her. She wanted to please and please in a sexual way, but that wasn’t where he found pleasure and didn’t want a relationship where sex was the foundation.

What is "it". The only guy I know who has this dynamic with his spouse that I dated previously is someone who was very controlling and sexual and seemed to have lack of control himself so this intrigues me. I know men who are very kind to their wives who stay home, but I don't have a close up relationship with them. I just see them on the outside as being very fair minded.

The “it” is being able to just let go and known everything will be more than ok. Deep vulnerability for both of us. Knowing that every thing he does is dine with a deliberate intent to make your life better and to please. Knowing that the drama that consumes other relationships is something you will never have to deal with. For me “It” is knowing that you are loved and appreciated every minute of everyday. The “it” that his ex didn’t understand was that it wasn’t role-play and that he loves very deeply. There is no ambiguity, you know exactly what he wants and needs. When he tells me I am the most beautiful woman in the world, they are just words, there is a look, and a tone that reassures and makes me take pause to acknowledge internally that this idiot really truly believes that. Dates are perfectly, planned, vacations are thoroughly planned, even on short notice and he makes it look effortless: Some of the deeper details would probably get this thread deleted.

Maybe he just didn't love her the same way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women who sincerely believe that men are irrelevant and useless, and who are in an economic position to accurately say this, are a very small percentage of the overall population, maybe top 1-2%. 99% of women, ESPECIALLY of child bearing age, are not wealthy enough and will never be wealthy enough to comfortably care for children without outside help. The welfare state helps somewhat with this but at the end of the day nobody who makes the typical young single female salary of like 50k/yr can raise a family on that. Most women need men if they want kids, and even without kids most women are too poor to live a decent lifestyle without a second income. A few rich women bragging about their self made millions on here and dissing the male gender doesn’t change the cold hard truth that the average woman is broke AF.

Even then, men still predominately develop the technologies, fight the wars, do the dirty odd jobs, construction and other thankless jobs and work the law enforcement that make their lives so comfortable in the first place. These men are nameless and faceless to these corporate, rent seeking drones until they need them or something goes wrong though. Calling men irrelevant just shows how far up their own arses these women are. Congrats on making partner!!

Women perform the thankless jobs of childcare, nursing, cooking, teaching, cleaning and are the ones who give birth.

Why can’t we just admit that both genders perform essential tasks and more or less need one another to live a happy, healthy, prosperous life (outside of a few delusional elites who can insulate themselves from reality with $$$)

People perform essential tasks. They shouldn't be limited to certain tasks based on their sex organs.

But they aren't. There is no limitation. That doesn't mean certain things that are based on their sex organs are off limits. Being able to work out of the house doesn't mean you now can't work in the house anymore.

There is in “traditional gender roles”.

And out. According to you, the minute a mom thinks maybe she should make dinner, it's time to think about going out so she's not stuck in the house.

Just referring to the PP who explained that her and her DH have “traditional gender roles”. So in their case there are certain expectations and limitations. If there weren’t they wouldn’t be “traditional”.

I think you're conflating traditional with "expected" or "required". Who knows whether that's the case. It sounds like she likes being in that role -- whether because of social norms, biology, too many Disney movies, enjoying taking care of the family -- and it doesn't sound like she is confined at all.

If she is taking on non-traditional roles then she’s non-traditional. It’s confining by definition; there isn’t someone actually confining her. It’s how she has defined herself.

Woman you are referring to here. I use the word traditional because
- I cook most of the time
- Do most of the laundry
- Handle day to day logistics of the house
- I don’t like using the word submissive, but it is accurate, we have rules
- I make sure I am “presentable“ ever day.
- I defer to my husband on most major decisions out of trust but I also don’t need his permission to make decisions or spend money
- I have various roles in our relationship, wife, lover, friend, muse, sub
- I happily will say I am housewife
- I know my husbands preferences with just about everything and make sure they are met

Among other things

Are you ok doing this while your husband goes away on business trips and has sex with other women? Or men? This is how Ive seen many of these relationships work out. Or like the Stepford wives where they just become robots. Just because you do all these things doesn’t mean you get a loving faithful and high earning husband

I do have a loving, loyal, high earning husband .

He doesn’t cheat on business trips. He has never been a hookup type of man, and he wouldn’t get what he wants out of a quick fling. We always have a long call late evening and typically is on FaceTime with DS helping with homework. Plus we typically have video/phone sex.

My question was would you be? Because right now men make less than women in this country. Men have more addictions and crime. Men still have more infidelity and sex than women. So even if you play a submissive stay at home mom role you are rolling the dice with the person you are with. A great majority of men aren't interested in being high earners, monogamous or controlling their other impulses, and loving to their wives. They like the control too much and don't like to control themselves.

I 100% agree with your assessments. That is why I married DH. I wouldn’t feel that I could be this open and secure with any man. DH feels the same way, I know one of his long term exes and asked him if they had a similar dynamic. He pointed out that she wasn’t strong enough to handle it. Which I was confused by. As he explained though, she was going through the motions for his gratification and to receive the material benefits of the relationship. He said that is the biggest turn off in the world. There is a lot more to that conversation but that is what it came down to. She wasn’t getting emotional benefit out of it, but would never say that. That is why he broke up with her. She wanted to please and please in a sexual way, but that wasn’t where he found pleasure and didn’t want a relationship where sex was the foundation.

He finds pleasure in non sexual ways?

He doesn. But my point was he didn’t did just want the relationship to be about the physical act of sex, he wanted and desires more depth and deeper connection. Having sex for an immediate gratification doesn’t really do anything for him.

Deeper connection = total power over another human being.

Obviously, it’s working for you guys and think it’s great the universe has brought you together. But I think it’s a dangerous ideal for all marriages. There is a real risk of abuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP said it was about having rules & rituals (“scenes”) as well as being submissive. And then also said there actually is some BM. Question is who is submissive in the bedroom.

So…very much like BDSM.

Semantics. My point is that while gender is mostly a social construct it's not entirely inextricable from biology either. Whether you're getting tied up or not, women, on avg, are attracted to guys who can take charge and having clearly defined roles of who is responsible for what is helpful for that.

Wanting to have the power taken away is an extremely common sexual fantasy. Whether it's some sort of role play where you're some low level employee that's been told to "earn that promotion", a prostitute fantasy, or even a rape fantasy. If you have any of those fantasies or a myriad of others where your power is being taken away, congrats, you're just kind of basic. But that's okay. Role play can be fun. That being said, you're conflating role play fantasy with real life. Someone might have a rape or prostitution fantasy but that doesn't mean that they literally want to be raped or a prostitute. When it comes to real life, people have dreams and goals that are rooted in reality, not fantasy. Many people want to do something they feel will make their life meaningful, whatever that means for themselves. For some people it's working a career. For others it's raising children and not working. None of this means that all or even most women want a power imbalance in their daily lives. If you get turned on by scrubbing the toilets every day and never having your husband do it, by all means go for it but I don't think that's a common thing people want. If you are aroused by having no job and spouse that has one then go for it but that doesn't mean everyone (or most people) want that. And sexual fantasy has it's place but it's not rooted in real life.

It isn’t a sexual gratification/arousal exercise for me. It is a role I am comfortable with and brings me joy. I love being a housewife/stay at home mom/stepford wife/dutiful wife whatever tag society wants to put on it or describe it.

It is who I am at my core. It allows me a great amount freedom and it allows for a very intense and satisfying intimate relationship with my husband but my daily activities are motivated by sex or sexual thoughts.

Who you are is absolutely fine BUT there were people here making the claim that all women (or nearly all?) are happier in this dynamic which is absolutely not true.

There are PLENTY of men who want to be submissive to their wives. It's usually the wives who don't want it. Trust me. I have first hand experience.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Women who sincerely believe that men are irrelevant and useless, and who are in an economic position to accurately say this, are a very small percentage of the overall population, maybe top 1-2%. 99% of women, ESPECIALLY of child bearing age, are not wealthy enough and will never be wealthy enough to comfortably care for children without outside help. The welfare state helps somewhat with this but at the end of the day nobody who makes the typical young single female salary of like 50k/yr can raise a family on that. Most women need men if they want kids, and even without kids most women are too poor to live a decent lifestyle without a second income. A few rich women bragging about their self made millions on here and dissing the male gender doesn’t change the cold hard truth that the average woman is broke AF.

Even then, men still predominately develop the technologies, fight the wars, do the dirty odd jobs, construction and other thankless jobs and work the law enforcement that make their lives so comfortable in the first place. These men are nameless and faceless to these corporate, rent seeking drones until they need them or something goes wrong though. Calling men irrelevant just shows how far up their own arses these women are. Congrats on making partner!!

Women perform the thankless jobs of childcare, nursing, cooking, teaching, cleaning and are the ones who give birth.

Why can’t we just admit that both genders perform essential tasks and more or less need one another to live a happy, healthy, prosperous life (outside of a few delusional elites who can insulate themselves from reality with $$$)

People perform essential tasks. They shouldn't be limited to certain tasks based on their sex organs.

But they aren't. There is no limitation. That doesn't mean certain things that are based on their sex organs are off limits. Being able to work out of the house doesn't mean you now can't work in the house anymore.

There is in “traditional gender roles”.

And out. According to you, the minute a mom thinks maybe she should make dinner, it's time to think about going out so she's not stuck in the house.

Just referring to the PP who explained that her and her DH have “traditional gender roles”. So in their case there are certain expectations and limitations. If there weren’t they wouldn’t be “traditional”.

I think you're conflating traditional with "expected" or "required". Who knows whether that's the case. It sounds like she likes being in that role -- whether because of social norms, biology, too many Disney movies, enjoying taking care of the family -- and it doesn't sound like she is confined at all.

If she is taking on non-traditional roles then she’s non-traditional. It’s confining by definition; there isn’t someone actually confining her. It’s how she has defined herself.

Woman you are referring to here. I use the word traditional because
- I cook most of the time
- Do most of the laundry
- Handle day to day logistics of the house
- I don’t like using the word submissive, but it is accurate, we have rules
- I make sure I am “presentable“ ever day.
- I defer to my husband on most major decisions out of trust but I also don’t need his permission to make decisions or spend money
- I have various roles in our relationship, wife, lover, friend, muse, sub
- I happily will say I am housewife
- I know my husbands preferences with just about everything and make sure they are met

Among other things

Are you ok doing this while your husband goes away on business trips and has sex with other women? Or men? This is how Ive seen many of these relationships work out. Or like the Stepford wives where they just become robots. Just because you do all these things doesn’t mean you get a loving faithful and high earning husband

I do have a loving, loyal, high earning husband .

He doesn’t cheat on business trips. He has never been a hookup type of man, and he wouldn’t get what he wants out of a quick fling. We always have a long call late evening and typically is on FaceTime with DS helping with homework. Plus we typically have video/phone sex.

My question was would you be? Because right now men make less than women in this country. Men have more addictions and crime. Men still have more infidelity and sex than women. So even if you play a submissive stay at home mom role you are rolling the dice with the person you are with. A great majority of men aren't interested in being high earners, monogamous or controlling their other impulses, and loving to their wives. They like the control too much and don't like to control themselves.

I 100% agree with your assessments. That is why I married DH. I wouldn’t feel that I could be this open and secure with any man. DH feels the same way, I know one of his long term exes and asked him if they had a similar dynamic. He pointed out that she wasn’t strong enough to handle it. Which I was confused by. As he explained though, she was going through the motions for his gratification and to receive the material benefits of the relationship. He said that is the biggest turn off in the world. There is a lot more to that conversation but that is what it came down to. She wasn’t getting emotional benefit out of it, but would never say that. That is why he broke up with her. She wanted to please and please in a sexual way, but that wasn’t where he found pleasure and didn’t want a relationship where sex was the foundation.

He finds pleasure in non sexual ways?

He doesn. But my point was he didn’t did just want the relationship to be about the physical act of sex, he wanted and desires more depth and deeper connection. Having sex for an immediate gratification doesn’t really do anything for him.

Deeper connection = total power over another human being.

Obviously, it’s working for you guys and think it’s great the universe has brought you together. But I think it’s a dangerous ideal for all marriages. There is a real risk of abuse.

And most people don’t have this relationship fetish.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:PP said it was about having rules & rituals (“scenes”) as well as being submissive. And then also said there actually is some BM. Question is who is submissive in the bedroom.

So…very much like BDSM.

Semantics. My point is that while gender is mostly a social construct it's not entirely inextricable from biology either. Whether you're getting tied up or not, women, on avg, are attracted to guys who can take charge and having clearly defined roles of who is responsible for what is helpful for that.

Wanting to have the power taken away is an extremely common sexual fantasy. Whether it's some sort of role play where you're some low level employee that's been told to "earn that promotion", a prostitute fantasy, or even a rape fantasy. If you have any of those fantasies or a myriad of others where your power is being taken away, congrats, you're just kind of basic. But that's okay. Role play can be fun. That being said, you're conflating role play fantasy with real life. Someone might have a rape or prostitution fantasy but that doesn't mean that they literally want to be raped or a prostitute. When it comes to real life, people have dreams and goals that are rooted in reality, not fantasy. Many people want to do something they feel will make their life meaningful, whatever that means for themselves. For some people it's working a career. For others it's raising children and not working. None of this means that all or even most women want a power imbalance in their daily lives. If you get turned on by scrubbing the toilets every day and never having your husband do it, by all means go for it but I don't think that's a common thing people want. If you are aroused by having no job and spouse that has one then go for it but that doesn't mean everyone (or most people) want that. And sexual fantasy has it's place but it's not rooted in real life.

It isn’t a sexual gratification/arousal exercise for me. It is a role I am comfortable with and brings me joy. I love being a housewife/stay at home mom/stepford wife/dutiful wife whatever tag society wants to put on it or describe it.

It is who I am at my core. It allows me a great amount freedom and it allows for a very intense and satisfying intimate relationship with my husband but my daily activities are motivated by sex or sexual thoughts.

Who you are is absolutely fine BUT there were people here making the claim that all women (or nearly all?) are happier in this dynamic which is absolutely not true.

There are PLENTY of men who want to be submissive to their wives. It's usually the wives who don't want it. Trust me. I have first hand experience.

Are you the traditional roles PP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP said it was about having rules & rituals (“scenes”) as well as being submissive. And then also said there actually is some BM. Question is who is submissive in the bedroom.

So…very much like BDSM.

Semantics. My point is that while gender is mostly a social construct it's not entirely inextricable from biology either. Whether you're getting tied up or not, women, on avg, are attracted to guys who can take charge and having clearly defined roles of who is responsible for what is helpful for that.

Wanting to have the power taken away is an extremely common sexual fantasy. Whether it's some sort of role play where you're some low level employee that's been told to "earn that promotion", a prostitute fantasy, or even a rape fantasy. If you have any of those fantasies or a myriad of others where your power is being taken away, congrats, you're just kind of basic. But that's okay. Role play can be fun. That being said, you're conflating role play fantasy with real life. Someone might have a rape or prostitution fantasy but that doesn't mean that they literally want to be raped or a prostitute. When it comes to real life, people have dreams and goals that are rooted in reality, not fantasy. Many people want to do something they feel will make their life meaningful, whatever that means for themselves. For some people it's working a career. For others it's raising children and not working. None of this means that all or even most women want a power imbalance in their daily lives. If you get turned on by scrubbing the toilets every day and never having your husband do it, by all means go for it but I don't think that's a common thing people want. If you are aroused by having no job and spouse that has one then go for it but that doesn't mean everyone (or most people) want that. And sexual fantasy has it's place but it's not rooted in real life.

It isn’t a sexual gratification/arousal exercise for me. It is a role I am comfortable with and brings me joy. I love being a housewife/stay at home mom/stepford wife/dutiful wife whatever tag society wants to put on it or describe it.

It is who I am at my core. It allows me a great amount freedom and it allows for a very intense and satisfying intimate relationship with my husband but my daily activities are motivated by sex or sexual thoughts.

Who you are is absolutely fine BUT there were people here making the claim that all women (or nearly all?) are happier in this dynamic which is absolutely not true.

There are PLENTY of men who want to be submissive to their wives. It's usually the wives who don't want it. Trust me. I have first hand experience.

Are you the traditional roles PP?

LOL. NO. Definitely not.

[Anonymous]

I never take out the trash

-woman

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women who sincerely believe that men are irrelevant and useless, and who are in an economic position to accurately say this, are a very small percentage of the overall population, maybe top 1-2%. 99% of women, ESPECIALLY of child bearing age, are not wealthy enough and will never be wealthy enough to comfortably care for children without outside help. The welfare state helps somewhat with this but at the end of the day nobody who makes the typical young single female salary of like 50k/yr can raise a family on that. Most women need men if they want kids, and even without kids most women are too poor to live a decent lifestyle without a second income. A few rich women bragging about their self made millions on here and dissing the male gender doesn’t change the cold hard truth that the average woman is broke AF.

Even then, men still predominately develop the technologies, fight the wars, do the dirty odd jobs, construction and other thankless jobs and work the law enforcement that make their lives so comfortable in the first place. These men are nameless and faceless to these corporate, rent seeking drones until they need them or something goes wrong though. Calling men irrelevant just shows how far up their own arses these women are. Congrats on making partner!!

Women perform the thankless jobs of childcare, nursing, cooking, teaching, cleaning and are the ones who give birth.

Why can’t we just admit that both genders perform essential tasks and more or less need one another to live a happy, healthy, prosperous life (outside of a few delusional elites who can insulate themselves from reality with $$$)

People perform essential tasks. They shouldn't be limited to certain tasks based on their sex organs.

But they aren't. There is no limitation. That doesn't mean certain things that are based on their sex organs are off limits. Being able to work out of the house doesn't mean you now can't work in the house anymore.

There is in “traditional gender roles”.

And out. According to you, the minute a mom thinks maybe she should make dinner, it's time to think about going out so she's not stuck in the house.

Just referring to the PP who explained that her and her DH have “traditional gender roles”. So in their case there are certain expectations and limitations. If there weren’t they wouldn’t be “traditional”.

I think you're conflating traditional with "expected" or "required". Who knows whether that's the case. It sounds like she likes being in that role -- whether because of social norms, biology, too many Disney movies, enjoying taking care of the family -- and it doesn't sound like she is confined at all.

If she is taking on non-traditional roles then she’s non-traditional. It’s confining by definition; there isn’t someone actually confining her. It’s how she has defined herself.

Woman you are referring to here. I use the word traditional because
- I cook most of the time
- Do most of the laundry
- Handle day to day logistics of the house
- I don’t like using the word submissive, but it is accurate, we have rules
- I make sure I am “presentable“ ever day.
- I defer to my husband on most major decisions out of trust but I also don’t need his permission to make decisions or spend money
- I have various roles in our relationship, wife, lover, friend, muse, sub
- I happily will say I am housewife
- I know my husbands preferences with just about everything and make sure they are met

Among other things

Are you ok doing this while your husband goes away on business trips and has sex with other women? Or men? This is how Ive seen many of these relationships work out. Or like the Stepford wives where they just become robots. Just because you do all these things doesn’t mean you get a loving faithful and high earning husband

I do have a loving, loyal, high earning husband .

He doesn’t cheat on business trips. He has never been a hookup type of man, and he wouldn’t get what he wants out of a quick fling. We always have a long call late evening and typically is on FaceTime with DS helping with homework. Plus we typically have video/phone sex.

My question was would you be? Because right now men make less than women in this country. Men have more addictions and crime. Men still have more infidelity and sex than women. So even if you play a submissive stay at home mom role you are rolling the dice with the person you are with. A great majority of men aren't interested in being high earners, monogamous or controlling their other impulses, and loving to their wives. They like the control too much and don't like to control themselves.

I 100% agree with your assessments. That is why I married DH. I wouldn’t feel that I could be this open and secure with any man. DH feels the same way, I know one of his long term exes and asked him if they had a similar dynamic. He pointed out that she wasn’t strong enough to handle it. Which I was confused by. As he explained though, she was going through the motions for his gratification and to receive the material benefits of the relationship. He said that is the biggest turn off in the world. There is a lot more to that conversation but that is what it came down to. She wasn’t getting emotional benefit out of it, but would never say that. That is why he broke up with her. She wanted to please and please in a sexual way, but that wasn’t where he found pleasure and didn’t want a relationship where sex was the foundation.

He finds pleasure in non sexual ways?

He doesn. But my point was he didn’t did just want the relationship to be about the physical act of sex, he wanted and desires more depth and deeper connection. Having sex for an immediate gratification doesn’t really do anything for him.

Deeper connection = total power over another human being.

Obviously, it’s working for you guys and think it’s great the universe has brought you together. But I think it’s a dangerous ideal for all marriages. There is a real risk of abuse.

PP here, deeper connection does not equal total power over another human being. He has a much control as I am willing to give. That hasn’t change and I don’t think he would like it any other way.

[Anonymous]

Women are generally better looking than men. And the average woman has many more tools to make herself better looking than the average man - hair, makeup, and clothing options.