Women expecting other women to be in charge of all holidays/logistics/family dynamics

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:About 12 years ago, I started attending DH’s family reunion as a guest; then we were engaged, then married. I’ve been going to this reunion every non-COVID year. About 8 of them were married years.

The week after we got married, I was added to a women-only email group to discuss The Family Reunion. It involved what rental properties to secure, menus, who would bring what, how payments would be divided, etc. I was confused and sent it to my husband, who wrote back to the group and asked to be included as the point of contact.

Apparently, before I came on the scene/before we were married, he was just told by his mom (*who is also married-in and not a blood relative of this family*) what the dates were, what food he should bring, and how much he would owe. So like, he was never treated as an adult participant even when he was an adult who was paying his way. And then after he was married, somehow *I* was deemed as a full planning participant, because I have a vagina.

He was told flat-out when he requested to be added as our nuclear family representative that it was a women-only group, and that I would be receiving the emails.

I marked the emails as spam and haven’t seen a single message since. His mom tries telling me details and I tell her to contact her son.

Good for you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

The "source" is the title of the thread topic and that's enough.
We get it - it doesn't apply to you. Mine is pretty good about stepping up but I remember as a kid complaining to my aunts how annoying it was the boys sat around all day and I had to help in the kitchen. I saw the inequity, HATED it, and made sure I would change what I could. Still I recognize this is a significant issue for many women and I admire the ones who call it out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:About 12 years ago, I started attending DH’s family reunion as a guest; then we were engaged, then married. I’ve been going to this reunion every non-COVID year. About 8 of them were married years.

The week after we got married, I was added to a women-only email group to discuss The Family Reunion. It involved what rental properties to secure, menus, who would bring what, how payments would be divided, etc. I was confused and sent it to my husband, who wrote back to the group and asked to be included as the point of contact.

Apparently, before I came on the scene/before we were married, he was just told by his mom (*who is also married-in and not a blood relative of this family*) what the dates were, what food he should bring, and how much he would owe. So like, he was never treated as an adult participant even when he was an adult who was paying his way. And then after he was married, somehow *I* was deemed as a full planning participant, because I have a vagina.

He was told flat-out when he requested to be added as our nuclear family representative that it was a women-only group, and that I would be receiving the emails.

I marked the emails as spam and haven’t seen a single message since. His mom tries telling me details and I tell her to contact her son.

Good for you!

Omg you should go or “go” but bring a book and read in the bar at the golf course. Assuming there is no other day where the men do the work and the women get drunk that’s ridiculous

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tired of the posters here pretending to be "confused" about the topic while flexing about their gourmet chef husbands. Everyone knows this is a source of generational conflict. Boomer women have no problem with planning, cooking and cleaning up while the men watch football. Millennial women feel differently. Why?
My theory is because families are smaller and more spread out now. In my mom's generation she had her sister, mother, sister-in-law and so on all in the kitchen together, drinking wine and chatting while they did their thing. Now the burden is often on one or two women so the men need to step up.

Sure, I enjoy cooking with the women in my family. That hasn't changed.

But maybe millennials realize how sexist and unfair this all is and have been empowered to speak up, so they are?

[Anonymous]

I guess I just never picked up the rope to begin with. When DH's parents visit over the Christmas holidays, I let him do almost all of the planning, though I'll help out with dishes or cooking if he wants to assign me a specific task. Usually it means he picks up some kind of take out at the last minute, which is fine with me. I have enough stress dealing with my own family and creating fun memories with our kids, and I stopped being a people pleaser before we got married.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tired of the posters here pretending to be "confused" about the topic while flexing about their gourmet chef husbands. Everyone knows this is a source of generational conflict. Boomer women have no problem with planning, cooking and cleaning up while the men watch football. Millennial women feel differently. Why?
My theory is because families are smaller and more spread out now. In my mom's generation she had her sister, mother, sister-in-law and so on all in the kitchen together, drinking wine and chatting while they did their thing. Now the burden is often on one or two women so the men need to step up.

Sure, I enjoy cooking with the women in my family. That hasn't changed.

But maybe millennials realize how sexist and unfair this all is and have been empowered to speak up, so they are?

Maybe. I love cooking with the women too. The part I absolutely refuse to do is the cards/gifts for husband's family. No way is that my responsibility and I can't believe older generations of women took that on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

And let me be clear: you're smug and misogynist. Take it elsewhere. Putting other women down under the guise of honesty is utter garbage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You know what also pisses me off? When Dh punts it back to me. His parents will ask what the plans are for the holiday and he’ll say “let me see what wife is planning.” Or “can you ask wife?” Or when he doesn’t want to do something he’ll say “sounds good! Let me see if it’s okay with wife” and then he makes it sound like it’s my fault that we aren’t doing the activity. I had a come to Jesus conversation with Dh around this, but he just can’t stop.

This infuriates me! My husband does this too so I’m ALWAYS the bad guy in his family’s eyes. Even for something so stupidly obvious like “Will you fly across the country with the kids on :insert middle of school week day here: to attend our puppy’s graduation from obedience school?” No, of course we won’t! Just say no! How hard is it? If my parents asked something so asinine of me I’d say no immediately and wouldn’t even bring it up with him. Instead, I get to be the jerk to his family, again. “Let me ask Sally if we can do that. I’ll let you know.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tired of the posters here pretending to be "confused" about the topic while flexing about their gourmet chef husbands. Everyone knows this is a source of generational conflict. Boomer women have no problem with planning, cooking and cleaning up while the men watch football. Millennial women feel differently. Why?
My theory is because families are smaller and more spread out now. In my mom's generation she had her sister, mother, sister-in-law and so on all in the kitchen together, drinking wine and chatting while they did their thing. Now the burden is often on one or two women so the men need to step up.

Sure, I enjoy cooking with the women in my family. That hasn't changed.

But maybe millennials realize how sexist and unfair this all is and have been empowered to speak up, so they are?

+1. “My thing” as a 10-year-old was not to clear the table with my sister and female cousins while my brother and male cousins were allowed to continue to sit and relax. “My thing” today is to cook and clean and plan and make wonderful holidays—right alongside my husband.

We work with our respective families to make a plan. Every adult participates in some way, even if it is my dad going to the grocery store numerous times while my mom does the meal planning and most of the prep. My sister and I (and to some extent, all of our kids) help my mom set up and cook, DH and my BIL do all the clean-up, with my dad taking out trash and dealing with the recycling bins. This is just one example of how holidays go. For both sides of the family, DH and I are full participants, and my kids know that holidays, vacations and family dynamics = everybody helps, everybody participates, everybody benefits. It’s not one exhausted mom making Christmas magic. That’s not how we operate.

[Anonymous]

This thread has taken a weird turn. So women should not handle everything related to holiday planning, demand their husbands step up, drop the rope, only deal with their own side of the family. But also, women who don't handle everything related to holiday planning for their own families, have successfully demanded their husbands step up, have dropped (or never picked up the rope), and deal with their family of origin but not in laws should also STFU and stop commenting on this thread because they're inherently antifeminist for having achieved a stated feminist goal.

Neat?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

And let me be clear: you're smug and misogynist. Take it elsewhere. Putting other women down under the guise of honesty is utter garbage.

Do better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand the people who say that if it wasn't for the women the men would just not do any of this and there would be no Thanksgiving.

My husband is making the turkey and gravy. But also just this morning my 13 year old son was talking about how much he is looking forwad to thanksgiving. This year he is making the pumpkin pie.

I have daughters who have dish assignments too, and I ended up doing all the rest of the sides and most of the table set up. But it is a whole family activity to host a bunch of our extended family.

If it was left up to my husband, we would have just about everything that we have planned except perhaps the brussels sprouts.

You don't understand that in the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older, holidays are considered women's work? Seriously?

Even scarier: you don't understand that people are different than you?

NP. Can you please site your source for the “overwhelming majority of American families…women’s work” statement? I ask as my husband is literally on the way to the grocery store now to get rutabagas and pie crust ingredients—he makes mashed rutabagas, cranberry orange relish, and a pumpkin pie literally from scratch—as in from a pie pumpkin—every year. He also has a list of Christmas dishes that he will make without fail.

Slow clap for you and the PPs on this thread who have better husbands than the rest of us. That's really what your comment is about, isn't it?

Asking for a source that holiday planning and execution typically falls to women in American society is just... I have no words.

I mean, you’re speaking for all of “American society,” so you must have some type of source for that statement, which you are making as a given statement of fact.

And yes, it is nice that I have a good husband who treats me as an equal partner, models family dynamics as a shared responsibility for our kids, and does the basics to celebrate birthdays, holidays and vacations with his family. Pretty basic stuff, really.

I said "the overwhelming majority of American families, especially GenX and older" - I stand by that. Sources are only needed for things that aren't obviously known.

It's ironic that you and other PPs are claiming to be post-gender roles, and yet here you are, crapping on other women whom you perceive have "lesser" husbands than you do. Again, slow clap for you.

Keep “slow-clapping”…maybe the ‘90s will come back!

I’m not “crapping” on other women for having lesser husbands. I am calling out women who perpetuate paternalistic dynamics by not only willingly taking on all the family/emotional labor, but modeling that for their children. Let me be clear: you are just as much a part of the problem as “hapless,” disengaged men are.

I really think you are missing the point of this particular discussion. Women can choose to not do a thing. When they don’t do it, their spouse sometimes does it or sometimes doesn’t. I’m the PP whose DH didn’t get his mom a birthday gift this year. It’s fine. I am having the holiday I want with my own family. If I don’t do certain things, they just don’t get done. Therefore I am doing the things that are important to me and the things that are not are not getting done. It’s the best I can do for my marriage and I’m ok with it (but not ok with his family blaming me for not doing his stuff). Some things will take another generation. My preschool age son already knows how to cook better than my husband does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread has taken a weird turn. So women should not handle everything related to holiday planning, demand their husbands step up, drop the rope, only deal with their own side of the family. But also, women who don't handle everything related to holiday planning for their own families, have successfully demanded their husbands step up, have dropped (or never picked up the rope), and deal with their family of origin but not in laws should also STFU and stop commenting on this thread because they're inherently antifeminist for having achieved a stated feminist goal.

Neat?

A “weird turn”? Did you not read the thread title, and did you not see that the original post literally says “the call is coming from inside the house,” meaning women being an active part of problematic paternalistic dynamics…IS the problem at hand?