SAHMs with no retirement or college savings

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do you feel the need to judge others? Are you just insecure about the choices you have made for yourself? Maybe she is dealing with health issues of a parent or other family member. Especially in the area of mental health, people don’t always share that sort of thing. Maybe she felt like her mother didn’t spend enough time with her when she was growing up, and doesn’t want to make the same mistake with her own kids. Maybe she feels like her marriage will be more successful if both spouses aren’t stressed out all the time with work. Maybe, maybe, maybe…you have no idea why she has made the choices she has made, nor should you care.

THis!

Or maybe the spouse would not be as successful at work if they had to stay home with sick kids, leave work at exactly 5:30pm X days per week to get to daycare/afterschool care pickup on time (or be docked $10/min for each min late). Maybe the spouse would have to turn down key projects that involve travel if both spouses were workings. I know for a fact that my spouse got to where they did in part because they DID NOT have any of those responsibilities at home. They could stay until 8pm for meetings, travel without worrying how to manage the kids, etc. We also both agreed the kids need stability and (in our opinion), we wanted that to be one of us. Wouldn't change what we did at all. But it's what worked for us. Spouse grew their career and by age 35 we did not have to worry about finances much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mom was like this. It was really annoying. They then refused to pay for college but I had to pick up their tab due to the expected family contribution and due to my dad's income, I could not get grants. My dad was not loaded but had enough that I was not grant eligible. I took out private loans at 9% and had 70k in debt from undergrad in 1999.

It really derailed my adult life. I did okay but I could have done better if I did not have that debt because I felt I could not consider professional school. It took all the joy out of my 20s...I worked 3 jobs until 33 to pay it off.

I felt my mom was lazy and had no excuse.

I will never every do that to my kids.

I work full time and have since they were born.

It is not your mom’s responsibility to pay for your college. She can live her life. I think this is incredibly selfish to expect your mom to work for years to serve you into adulthood.

And frankly, all of this conversation is only happening because some MC or LMC immigrant family is living very frugally to pay for their kids education. Otherwise, kids take loans to get a college education. That is American as Apple Pie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:most people do t save anything for college. i grew up lower middle class and my parents saved nothing.

i didn’t realize saving for college was a thing until i started working with affluent people.

my brother and i got scholarships and financial aid and graduated debt free.

Affluent people and Asian immigrants pay for their kids education. Otherwise, it is not a thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I swear you people are among the most gullible or the Internet. The OP is trolling. She made this up. Don’t people have better things to do with a Friday night?

Op here. I did not make this up. I would not talk about this to other people in real life so I posted here. I have young kids I put to bed at 8.

I’m a sahm so I meet a lot of other SAHMs. It is one thing to be a sahm when your spouse is a high earner or your child has special needs. I don’t understand why a mother would not go back to work if your family needed the money.

Maybe the family does NOT "need money". How do you know they don't have a plan for college? There are plenty of colleges kids can go to that only cost $20K/year----especially if their kid is a high achiever and willing to search out merit. Not gonna happen at a T40 school, but there are plenty of schools that a 1450+ and 3.8+ student can attend with great merit. My own kid could have gone to 2 of our state schools for less than $15K/year with merit and our state premier flagship (T50 school) for $30K. If we had needed merit, there are tons of smaller/non-elite schools that those scores can earn you nearly full tuition.
SO maybe the family has a plan to afford college and it's called not focusing on elite schools. $30K/year means the kid can earn $10K (summers/breaks/PT in college), take $5K in loans and they are left with $15K/year. Perhaps the parents have a plan for that---that can be done fairly easily on $150K-200K/year income. But if not, the kid picks a school that is only $15-20K. They actually exist if you have a decent student not focused on Elite schools.
One of my kids had a 25ACT, 3.4GPA (UW) and got 65% of tuition awarded at a T140 school (tuition was ~$40k, we would have paid $14K the first year, so with R&B it would have been ~$30K). We were not merit seeking, but if we had been, even that kid could have found a great place that was very affordable.

So yeah, it's not T20 but excellent schools that are affordable. Families without that T20/elite obsession know there are affordable choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you're a troll, but I'l answer why I probably won't go back to work even though I might not even be able to pay for tuition at a state school.

I have applied to many, many jobs, and I can't get any that will work with a flexible-ish schedule that would actually make a decent amount of money. I am being picky, I know, but I would like medical and maybe 60K. The only thing I can think of that would get me some marketable skills are going back to school (which would require money upfront) or doing something very low-paying in the hopes that it would eventually lead to something more. I'm not sure I'd be better off doing that than I would be focusing on saving money at home.

Right now, I like being able to do all my home tasks while the kids are at school so we can all just chill on the weekends, and I like spending after-school time with my kids since they are going to be gone so soon. At this point I'm not going to get a job that wouldn't let me do those things so they can go to a more expensive school. That is just my choice.

Also, some people don't realize just how expensive college has become. They think that the way to afford college is pretty much the same as what it was when they went, and that every single person complaining about student loans is just an idiot who went to a college that can change lives for a degree in gender studies.

Totally get it. The value of a SAHP is that the "shit to get done around the home" is most often done while everyone else is away (once kids are school aged). SO that translates to quality family time in the evenings and weekends---no 10 loads of laundry on a Saturday/clean the entire house Sat morning. it means game time/sporting events/whatever activities your family likes to do.
We have saved enough for college (and can cash flow any grad school needed). But the value of a SAHP is huge IMO. I was making 6 figures when I quit to be a SAHP 23+ years ago. Could have easily "afforded" to hire a nanny and continue working, but I wanted to be with my kids and my oldest would not have adjusted easily to it---literally never took a bottle, would just get extremely hungry and pissed off whenever we attempted it even with me out of the house, severe separation anxiety that was really just ADHD/Anxiety/social issues manifesting itself in early life.

While I would work anything if actually financially necessary, I don't need a job at Target/retail/fast food/menial office work just to have a job. The $10-15/hr would translate to me paying 50%+ in taxes overall. So I'm not working for $5-7/hr just to say I'm working. I can cut luxuries in our budget to easily get me to $300/month instead of working for $5/hr.
And yes, after 20+ years out of the professional workforce, it would be challenging to find a job in my field. And even then, I do not need to and dont' want to work 40+ hours/week. My kids are at college and beyond. I want to be able to travel when partner travels for work. It's hard enough to plan around their schedule, I don't need to be tied to another work schedule

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you're a troll, but I'l answer why I probably won't go back to work even though I might not even be able to pay for tuition at a state school.

I have applied to many, many jobs, and I can't get any that will work with a flexible-ish schedule that would actually make a decent amount of money. I am being picky, I know, but I would like medical and maybe 60K. The only thing I can think of that would get me some marketable skills are going back to school (which would require money upfront) or doing something very low-paying in the hopes that it would eventually lead to something more. I'm not sure I'd be better off doing that than I would be focusing on saving money at home.

Right now, I like being able to do all my home tasks while the kids are at school so we can all just chill on the weekends, and I like spending after-school time with my kids since they are going to be gone so soon. At this point I'm not going to get a job that wouldn't let me do those things so they can go to a more expensive school. That is just my choice.

Also, some people don't realize just how expensive college has become. They think that the way to afford college is pretty much the same as what it was when they went, and that every single person complaining about student loans is just an idiot who went to a college that can change lives for a degree in gender studies.

Going to an expensive private college is not worth it for 80% of people. Just attend in state college. If my parents saved 300k for me for college, I would ask them to give me 200k of that for a down payment on a first house. Forget paying 50-70k a year for college, that is BS.

Smart! Or use it for graduate school, which is often not funded unless it's a PHD program.

People need to realize it's not worth the debt to attend an elite school. What you do in college is so much more important that where you do it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mom was like this. It was really annoying. They then refused to pay for college but I had to pick up their tab due to the expected family contribution and due to my dad's income, I could not get grants. My dad was not loaded but had enough that I was not grant eligible. I took out private loans at 9% and had 70k in debt from undergrad in 1999.

It really derailed my adult life. I did okay but I could have done better if I did not have that debt because I felt I could not consider professional school. It took all the joy out of my 20s...I worked 3 jobs until 33 to pay it off.

I felt my mom was lazy and had no excuse.

I will never every do that to my kids.

I work full time and have since they were born.

Similar here. My parents saved nothing. So they had or earned too much for me to get financial aid yet didn’t have any college savings.

As a result, I had no choice in colleges. It all worked out yet I’d been accepted to other schools I would have liked to attend.

But as you stated, it all worked out. You attended college and got an education that is what's most important. hopefully will save for your kids.

[Anonymous]

Most people in low wage jobs cannot afford to save and even if a SAHM went back to work and earned minimum wage, they are not making enough after taxes and expenses to save that much. Also, if you are on benefits like medicaid, it can take away those benefits and you be in much worse shape financially.

I highly doubt OP, as wealthy as she is, is paying a good working wage to her housekeeper, nanny, landscaper, etc. so they can comfortably afford to send their kids to a $80K school like she can out of pocket.

We have saved since birth to pay for a state school. We live way under our means, tiny house (1000 square feet) fixer upper in a not expensive neighborhood, rarely vacation, etc. But, if we had less income than we do we could not do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What’s interesting to me is that a lot of SAHMs don’t seem to realize they aren’t contributing to retirement. They will often say their husband is saving in other accounts, but they don’t recognize how the benefit of a 401k is bankruptcy, tax deferred etc. They also don’t seem to understand that their husband’s 401k is only in his name. My own mother stayed home and I have power of attorney for my dad. She can’t even call up the brokerage firm to make a transaction since her name isn’t on the account. SAHms are truly screwed on the retirement front.

No, you contribute to an IRA yearly. And should divorce happen, you get a good lawyer as you are entitled to half of the working spouses retirement funds. Really not that difficult to get 50% if you were a SAHP.

Quite frankly, I'm the SAHP and my spouse has no clue where our money is. I manage everything along with our financial advisor. We trust each other so it's not an issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you're a troll, but I'l answer why I probably won't go back to work even though I might not even be able to pay for tuition at a state school.

I have applied to many, many jobs, and I can't get any that will work with a flexible-ish schedule that would actually make a decent amount of money. I am being picky, I know, but I would like medical and maybe 60K. The only thing I can think of that would get me some marketable skills are going back to school (which would require money upfront) or doing something very low-paying in the hopes that it would eventually lead to something more. I'm not sure I'd be better off doing that than I would be focusing on saving money at home.

Right now, I like being able to do all my home tasks while the kids are at school so we can all just chill on the weekends, and I like spending after-school time with my kids since they are going to be gone so soon. At this point I'm not going to get a job that wouldn't let me do those things so they can go to a more expensive school. That is just my choice.

Also, some people don't realize just how expensive college has become. They think that the way to afford college is pretty much the same as what it was when they went, and that every single person complaining about student loans is just an idiot who went to a college that can change lives for a degree in gender studies.

Going to an expensive private college is not worth it for 80% of people. Just attend in state college. If my parents saved 300k for me for college, I would ask them to give me 200k of that for a down payment on a first house. Forget paying 50-70k a year for college, that is BS.

Totally agree. It always amazes me how parents are sending their kids to college far away to study most of the time for degrees like sociology, biology or so that could easily be finished in the nearest town for 80% less. I am an immigrant who went to community college, then in-state college while working around the clock and paid cash for each semester. I was debt free and got a job that pays me 100K annually. I had no help from my parents whatsoever.

College obviously can be affordable for most---you just need to rethink the process and realize the ultimate goal is to get a degree. Where you get it does not matter. I've always said there are affordable options---but "keeping up with the joneses" parents do not like them. CC then transfer is the cheapest, especially if you can live at home for the CC part. But most states have in-state schools that you can be All in for ~$25K. If kid works, they can earn $10-12K/year, take $5K in loans. That leaves only $10K/year. Many parents can assist with that. If not, go to CC which is often $5-7K/year, live at home, still work and earn the $10-12K and save the extra$5K/year. Then your 3rd year is paid for and you just have $10-15K extra for 4th year. And you come out of college with $30K in loans.
But in reality, a good student can get $4-5K merit awards at many state schools and if you live off campus it is cheaper than $25K (apartments are more affordable than Room &Board). So it is possible to put yourself thru college, just not at Harvard and that's really ok

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not a SAHM but I work PT even though I only have one kid who is school age. My take is that people often overestimate how easy it is for middle class people to find reliable childcare when they both work, if they don’t have nearby family or other resources. It’s really challenging and right now we make it work by me being PT. It would be great for us financially if I could go FT, plus obviously very good for my retirement fund. But it would come at a major cost to family stability. I probably am still going to do it, but I dread what it will mean for our day-to-day. My current schedule makes everything so much easier. We never feel hectic. Our relationship are all really solid.

When you are wealthy and can always afford the extra help you need, or to pay for conveniences that make things easier, you may not realize how valuable that is to family stability and well being. But as a family that has had to sacrifice income to get that peace of mind, I realize how valuable it is. Yes, when I am FT we’ll be putting away way more for college/retirement than now. But that will be the only financial shift. It’s not like my FT salary will enable us to do that AND pay for housecleaners, meal prep, household admin, vacation planning, childcare on school sick days and in the summer, and all the other stuff I currently do. We’ll have to do all that, plus work, in order to get the extra savings. Probably worth it in the end but still: not fun. Which is why we’ve put it off a bit, accepting a few extra years of lower savings in exchange for an easier like during a pandemic.

So maybe before judging a SAHM whose household income is a fraction of yours, you should step back and be grateful that’s not a trade off you ever have to navigate.

High school students don't need childcare. At that age they should be making some contribution to the family they are a part of, be in charge of a meal one night a week, do their own laundry, some simple household tasks. There seems to be a real fear in the middle class that asking 15 or 16 year old kids to take on some responsibility is somehow harmful. It's not. Raising entitled children benefits no one.

Most of us are not afraid to have our kids take on responsibilities around the home. So yes while it's technically "easier" to work when kids are HS aged, study after study shows it's actually more important to have a parent around/avaiable during MS/HS years than 0-5 or ES. MS/HS is a challenging time for many and just the presence of a parent is important. So there are key advantages to having less stress at home that can be provided by having one parent working only PT or being Stay at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’ll, people just prioritize different things. Your friend prioritizes being home with kids over paying for college. I don’t think it’s selfish or not. I definitely don’t personally find any good reason why a woman would stay home bar a child with severe disabilities (even the ones w 7 figure husbands, but it doesn’t matter what I think. Every person gets to make their own life choices and set their own priorities.

Perhaps she has a “silent disease” like anxiety, depression, ADHD, or a rare disorder. That’s why I stay home; I can manage better that way, I am mentally healthier without the stress and conflicting demands of the workplace. Granted, I had a high level job, so maybe I would do better in a simpler job, but honestly, having two teens is still a lot of work - making sure they have proper meals, all that they need for school, ferrying them places, and keeping up with the house and other responsibilities is a big job in and of itself. Some superstars, well organized people can do it all - but in reality, few can.

Most cannot---something has to give in households with 2 parents trying to do it all. A lot is learned about your kids and their friends when you do the "ferrying them places" run to activities---favorite part of my day in MS/HS was just sitting there and listening to the 2-5 kids in my car talk, you learn alot about what's going on in their lives---and yeah, often times your teen doesn't communicate directly with the parents---you get "yeah", "fine", "right" and other one word responses, so being around them and their friends, you learn a great deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s interesting to me is that a lot of SAHMs don’t seem to realize they aren’t contributing to retirement. They will often say their husband is saving in other accounts, but they don’t recognize how the benefit of a 401k is bankruptcy, tax deferred etc. They also don’t seem to understand that their husband’s 401k is only in his name. My own mother stayed home and I have power of attorney for my dad. She can’t even call up the brokerage firm to make a transaction since her name isn’t on the account. SAHms are truly screwed on the retirement front.

SAHM can contribute to IRAs and should. I stopped working 16 years ago but still have more money in my 401ks and IRAs than my husband because I contributed more in my 20s and 30s.

And should divorce happen, you are entitled to an amount so that you both get 50% of the total family retirement (and future value if you get the right lawyer). If you have been a SAHP, any decent lawyer will get you a fair settlement for retirement and other assets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s interesting to me is that a lot of SAHMs don’t seem to realize they aren’t contributing to retirement. They will often say their husband is saving in other accounts, but they don’t recognize how the benefit of a 401k is bankruptcy, tax deferred etc. They also don’t seem to understand that their husband’s 401k is only in his name. My own mother stayed home and I have power of attorney for my dad. She can’t even call up the brokerage firm to make a transaction since her name isn’t on the account. SAHms are truly screwed on the retirement front.

SAHM can contribute to IRAs and should. I stopped working 16 years ago but still have more money in my 401ks and IRAs than my husband because I contributed more in my 20s and 30s.

It’s limited to what, 7k a year? Sorry but that’s hardly going to fund retirement for most women.

SAHP are entitled to half of the couples retirement savings should divorce happen. Only need a halfway decent lawyer to ensure that happens. A good one will get you a bit more, since you have been out of the workforce and wont step into a high paying job immediately.

[Anonymous]

It’s not only SAHMs that are clueless about finances. It’s women in general. I am a SAHM that plays an active role in managing the money. I have friends who work and has no clue where their DHs have squirreled away the money or what the family’s wealth (or lack of) is invested in.