Wife constantly talking about how much men suck

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I literally swipe left on anything that begins with a 6. 5'10" is the absolute tallest I can stand. My shortest boyfriend was 5'2". Most have been around 5'6" or 7".
The men in my family are all around 5'5". All doctors, all wealthy, all with beautiful wives for 20+ years.
It's about confidence and treating women right. And not viewing finding a partner as "scoring a girlfriend".

(Manlet pretending to be a woman who loves manlets and only knows other women who also love manlets. Cope and seethe all you want, manlet, women don't care about your "confidence" they care about your height.)

No, I'm just a woman who's 5'4" and doesn't want a guy hulking over me.

The only people who use the word "manlet" are self-hating incels. Yes, lots of women are nasty about height, and it isn't right, but even they and your precious "Chad"s don't have the hatred for shorter men that you do for yourselves. "Cope" and "manlet" are classic incel giveaways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It’s amazing how women can tell men what they want until we are blue in the face and they’ll be like “nah, I know what these ladies are really after.”

DP. Not trying to justify the guy ranting about women liking tall guys. But I will say that there is some background for guys being somewhat dismissive of what women say they want. A lot of us were watching in high school and college and what women said they wanted didn't seem to line up too well with the guys they actually seemed to be going out with. The good looking jocks who treated everyone like crap (except, temporarily, the girl he was trying to get with) seemed to always have an attractive girl to date. The sensitive guys with a sense of humor (but no athletic ability) were frequently dateless despite ranking high in some of the categories women said they wanted.

I think some of this can be chalked up to women not feeling free to be forthcoming about some of their more shallow desires. Also, the societal expectation that men make the first move made it to where the assertive assholes were the path of least resistance for women who were too shy or otherwise reluctant to make the first move themselves. Also, as women mature, so do their tastes in men. So, there are reasons for this other than that women are duplicitous or ignorant of their true desires. But what men hear women say they want doesn't necessarily match a man's lived experience (as the kids say) of the guys women seem to date.

[Anonymous]

Does your wife read DCUM? There are some threads here (like the postpartum one) which give a pretttttty poor showing of men. Maybe have your son read that to understand why so many people come away with a poor opinion or the gender…and what to aspire *not* to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But, many , many, many men do suck - in all corners of women’s lives - male colleagues, bosses, peers, relatives members of the public. It deeply affects the quality and trajectory of our lives. If you can’t recognize that and instead feel threatened by it, think your wife should just keep quiet about it, or if you feel obligated to stick up for sucky men just because they are your male brethren, then, TBH, there is something wrong with you and you should do some serious self-reflection.

And if you’re about to respond - but I don’t suck and I’m a man so why should I tolerate being lumped in with all the men? Well, that means you do not even begin to recognize the immense male privilege you have benefitted from every second of your life since you were born.

I am a woman, a very liberal woman for that matter. But I too don't like this idea that just because some men suck we are allowed to disparage all men. I also think its very unhealthy as a habit that women share with one another to make sweeping generalizations about male spouses (god no man can empty the dishwasher!) that contributes to great household gender inequality. No one should generalize about anyone. If you replaced men with basically anything else (women, trans people, lesbian, black people, chinese people, muslims) it would be universally abhorred. It doesn't feel good to be talked about like a statistic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It’s amazing how women can tell men what they want until we are blue in the face and they’ll be like “nah, I know what these ladies are really after.”

DP. Not trying to justify the guy ranting about women liking tall guys. But I will say that there is some background for guys being somewhat dismissive of what women say they want. A lot of us were watching in high school and college and what women said they wanted didn't seem to line up too well with the guys they actually seemed to be going out with. The good looking jocks who treated everyone like crap (except, temporarily, the girl he was trying to get with) seemed to always have an attractive girl to date. The sensitive guys with a sense of humor (but no athletic ability) were frequently dateless despite ranking high in some of the categories women said they wanted.

I think some of this can be chalked up to women not feeling free to be forthcoming about some of their more shallow desires. Also, the societal expectation that men make the first move made it to where the assertive assholes were the path of least resistance for women who were too shy or otherwise reluctant to make the first move themselves. Also, as women mature, so do their tastes in men. So, there are reasons for this other than that women are duplicitous or ignorant of their true desires. But what men hear women say they want doesn't necessarily match a man's lived experience (as the kids say) of the guys women seem to date.

High school and college? So, like, girls who didn’t yet know themselves, perhaps were still making decisions based on peer pressure, and weren’t looking for long-term relationships?

As you pointed out, women mature. Hopefully men do the same and realize that that women considering long-term relationships are no longer looking for the affirmation of peers by kissing the captain of the football team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But, many , many, many men do suck - in all corners of women’s lives - male colleagues, bosses, peers, relatives members of the public. It deeply affects the quality and trajectory of our lives. If you can’t recognize that and instead feel threatened by it, think your wife should just keep quiet about it, or if you feel obligated to stick up for sucky men just because they are your male brethren, then, TBH, there is something wrong with you and you should do some serious self-reflection.

And if you’re about to respond - but I don’t suck and I’m a man so why should I tolerate being lumped in with all the men? Well, that means you do not even begin to recognize the immense male privilege you have benefitted from every second of your life since you were born.

I am a woman, a very liberal woman for that matter. But I too don't like this idea that just because some men suck we are allowed to disparage all men. I also think its very unhealthy as a habit that women share with one another to make sweeping generalizations about male spouses (god no man can empty the dishwasher!) that contributes to great household gender inequality. No one should generalize about anyone. If you replaced men with basically anything else (women, trans people, lesbian, black people, chinese people, muslims) it would be universally abhorred. It doesn't feel good to be talked about like a statistic.

A) your analysis of what’s appropriate and what’s not needs some refining. You cannot just do a hypothetical and turn the tables to see if something is okay. It’s completely different for a white person to say they hate black people than it is for a black person to say they hate white people. The implications of white hatred toward Black people are violent and oppressive. For a black person to say he hates white people…that’s just kind of understandable.

B) PP didnt disparage all men! She qualified that’s she’s talking about many men, not all. But even the phrase “all men suck” is typically just a figure of speech. It’s hyperbole. It’s a way of saying “everywhere I turn I see a guy being a jerk!” It doesn’t need to be picked apart and taken literally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, they do suck.

My male friends say that men suck all the time.

My male friends do too. They also say that women are crazy. There's a reason I mainly stick to talking sports with a lot of these guys.

PP. Mine don’t say women are crazy. We do talk about sports a lot though. Went to a ball game with my friend on the weekend. There were a bunch of drunk hecklers behind us, throwing food and spilling beer everywhere. He kept apologizing to me for men being “such gross monkeys”.
Lots of guys are over toxic male behavior.

That's good to hear. I think men and boys getting the message that they also suffer from toxic masculinity, the patriarchy, etc. helps with this. Under our current patriarchal structures, a relatively small segment of men benefit from these toxic, aggressive behaviors. Most men and almost all women lose.

That’s what I try to do! Like my son is short and gets teased for it. It’s awful. But I explain to him that this is one result of toxic masculinity. We have an idea about how the ideal man should be (tall, for instance) and men and boys who don’t conform to that are denied that little bit of male privilege. Plus being small is a trait associated with women, and we teach men that female traits are bad, so any trait in a man that gets close to something feminine is ridiculed.

Women are worse at teasing short men than other guys are. Ever try to be in the dating scene at a 5’7 guy? You’ll get all sorts of insults. I feel bad for my brother in law. I’m 6’3 but my wife’s brother is 5’7 tops. He works out to compensate but it doesn’t matter. If your height begins with a 5 and you’re a guy have fun trying to score a girlfriend.

Obviously I know this. Everyone who has lived in a patriarchal society has seen both men and women ridicule short men for their height. I am married to a guy who is 5’7, my brother is 5’6, and my dad is 5’6. They all got teased in school.

Here is the thing: [i]women have internalized Misogyny too. [b]You see this all the time, not just in height but in the way some are turned on by the idea of a man making a lot of money (🤢) the way some women are turned off by a man crying or being a SAHD, etc. This is why if patriarchy were to be gone, it would be better for everybody.

By the way your wife’s brother should compensate with a better personality instead of trying to get more muscles. Lots of muscles is what men think women want, not what most women want.

No. It’s what women want. It’s not the patriarchal society. Also tall kids get teased just like short kids.

No woman is going to go for a short guy with muscles over a short guy with a good personality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It’s amazing how women can tell men what they want until we are blue in the face and they’ll be like “nah, I know what these ladies are really after.”

DP. Not trying to justify the guy ranting about women liking tall guys. But I will say that there is some background for guys being somewhat dismissive of what women say they want. A lot of us were watching in high school and college and what women said they wanted didn't seem to line up too well with the guys they actually seemed to be going out with. The good looking jocks who treated everyone like crap (except, temporarily, the girl he was trying to get with) seemed to always have an attractive girl to date. The sensitive guys with a sense of humor (but no athletic ability) were frequently dateless despite ranking high in some of the categories women said they wanted.

I think some of this can be chalked up to women not feeling free to be forthcoming about some of their more shallow desires. Also, the societal expectation that men make the first move made it to where the assertive assholes were the path of least resistance for women who were too shy or otherwise reluctant to make the first move themselves. Also, as women mature, so do their tastes in men. So, there are reasons for this other than that women are duplicitous or ignorant of their true desires. But what men hear women say they want doesn't necessarily match a man's lived experience (as the kids say) of the guys women seem to date.

High school and college? So, like, girls who didn’t yet know themselves, perhaps were still making decisions based on peer pressure, and weren’t looking for long-term relationships?

As you pointed out, women mature. Hopefully men do the same and realize that that women considering long-term relationships are no longer looking for the affirmation of peers by kissing the captain of the football team.

You're not wrong. But I don't think you can dismiss these formative impressions as irrelevant. A lot of men see this maturing as a shift from selecting for sexual attraction to selecting for material gain. Men want to be the object of sexual desire and don't care so much about being a provider of resources (except insofar as that makes them sexually desirable.) It's entirely possible that men who see it this way are just flat wrong, but I don't think this perspective can be ignored entirely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Several years ago I went through a phase like this. My poor husband was so patient at the time. What was really going on was that after the birth of my sons, I was forced to confront childhood sexual assaults I had essentially compartmentalized before that time. But having my little boys be the same age I was when I was assaulted and realizing just how vulnerable I was made me enormously angry, not just at my assaulter but at the world that coddled and protected him while leaving me vulnerable.

There are so, so many women with sex abuse in their histories, and we are taught not to talk about it. I didn’t tell anyone for years, not even my husband. But it festers and harms. And we don’t always handle it well.

I had to get therapy. And honestly, some days it is still a fight within myself not to be angry at what happened to me. But I don’t lash out at all men and in fact I am very careful not to because I have sons who are good boys and men, and I am married to a good man.

So maybe ask her what is going on? There might be more than you know.

This is a very interesting insight. My wife does have an history of being on the receiving end of sexual harassment if not necessarily sexual assault. The timing might have a correlation with our daughter reaching a similar age as when my wife had begun experiencing sexual harassment.

PP here. I would seriously consider that as a possible trigger. For women with a history of assault and harassment, it can be extremely difficult to come to grips with seeing your children reach the same age you were when you were assaulted or harassed. It forces you to confront what happened, because you have a concrete example of just exactly how vulnerable you were right in front of you. And you have to live with the fear of that happening to your kids because the world has not changed, not really. I suspect your wife is looking at your daughter and is terrified for her, and isn’t handling it well.

Did she ever get therapy for the harassment, or attend a support group, or anything like that?

+1. Also for the people saying "women are just as bad" - yes, on a policy level, there are lots of patriarchy-enabling women. But it's very different from the actual physical fear of men that comes with sexual harrassment/assault. In my 20s I was sexually harassed at work a lot and it really made me resent men, especially the men in the corporate world, many of whom think it's all in good fun/perks of the job to hit on younger women who can't do anything about it without putting their jobs at risk. I've aged out of it now pretty much but I still remember how angry and helpless it made me feel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
A) your analysis of what’s appropriate and what’s not needs some refining. You cannot just do a hypothetical and turn the tables to see if something is okay. It’s completely different for a white person to say they hate black people than it is for a black person to say they hate white people. The implications of white hatred toward Black people are violent and oppressive. For a black person to say he hates white people…that’s just kind of understandable.

Back on page 2: "You would not say the same thing if a man was beset by his female colleagues, bosses, peers, relatives, etc. and abstracted his negative feelings about them onto women as a whole. You'll try to justify the double standard by some hand waving about societal power, but it's still wrong. "

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
No, I'm just a woman who's 5'4" and doesn't want a guy hulking over me.

The only people who use the word "manlet" are self-hating incels. Yes, lots of women are nasty about height, and it isn't right, but even they and your precious "Chad"s don't have the hatred for shorter men that you do for yourselves. "Cope" and "manlet" are classic incel giveaways.

Screeching about incels is a classic obese barren cat lady giveaway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
A) your analysis of what’s appropriate and what’s not needs some refining. You cannot just do a hypothetical and turn the tables to see if something is okay. It’s completely different for a white person to say they hate black people than it is for a black person to say they hate white people. The implications of white hatred toward Black people are violent and oppressive. For a black person to say he hates white people…that’s just kind of understandable.

Back on page 2: "You would not say the same thing if a man was beset by his female colleagues, bosses, peers, relatives, etc. and abstracted his negative feelings about them onto women as a whole. You'll try to justify the double standard by some hand waving about societal power, but it's still wrong. "

I actually responded to that! If the gender tables were *truly* turned, if women did all the bad things to men that men to do women, if men had a harder time in life because of the prejudice of women, if their bodies were regulated by women, etc., I wouldn’t just think it was okay to say “women suck,” I’d say it myself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Plenty of women don’t want to be with somebody who is 12 inches taller. DH has six inches on me, which makes him 5’7 and it’s perfect.

lmao you have no idea how many women on the apps say "you must be over 6 foot" when the woman herself is 5' 0" or 5' 2".

I have never, ever seen a woman on the apps put an upper limit of any kind on men's height - "sorry you can't be over 5' 7" uh huh that sht just don't happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It’s amazing how women can tell men what they want until we are blue in the face and they’ll be like “nah, I know what these ladies are really after.”

DP. Not trying to justify the guy ranting about women liking tall guys. But I will say that there is some background for guys being somewhat dismissive of what women say they want. A lot of us were watching in high school and college and what women said they wanted didn't seem to line up too well with the guys they actually seemed to be going out with. The good looking jocks who treated everyone like crap (except, temporarily, the girl he was trying to get with) seemed to always have an attractive girl to date. The sensitive guys with a sense of humor (but no athletic ability) were frequently dateless despite ranking high in some of the categories women said they wanted.

I think some of this can be chalked up to women not feeling free to be forthcoming about some of their more shallow desires. Also, the societal expectation that men make the first move made it to where the assertive assholes were the path of least resistance for women who were too shy or otherwise reluctant to make the first move themselves. Also, as women mature, so do their tastes in men. So, there are reasons for this other than that women are duplicitous or ignorant of their true desires. But what men hear women say they want doesn't necessarily match a man's lived experience (as the kids say) of the guys women seem to date.

High school and college? So, like, girls who didn’t yet know themselves, perhaps were still making decisions based on peer pressure, and weren’t looking for long-term relationships?

As you pointed out, women mature. Hopefully men do the same and realize that that women considering long-term relationships are no longer looking for the affirmation of peers by kissing the captain of the football team.

You're not wrong. But I don't think you can dismiss these formative impressions as irrelevant. A lot of men see this maturing as a shift from selecting for sexual attraction to selecting for material gain. Men want to be the object of sexual desire and don't care so much about being a provider of resources (except insofar as that makes them sexually desirable.) It's entirely possible that men who see it this way are just flat wrong, but I don't think this perspective can be ignored entirely.

Obviously some women totally do that. Some women aspire to nothing more than marrying a tall rich guy. But when you’re generalizing, it’s totally safe to say that all else being equal, women will take a good personality over big muscles any day of the week. I know that you probably won’t but if you want to see more support for my point, google “female gaze.”

And these guys just have to get over their formative impressions, plus the women who do what they are afraid of and are primarily materialistic. Just like I have to get over my formative impressions of most men being gross douchebags who only value women based on how hot they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Plenty of women don’t want to be with somebody who is 12 inches taller. DH has six inches on me, which makes him 5’7 and it’s perfect.

lmao you have no idea how many women on the apps say "you must be over 6 foot" when the woman herself is 5' 0" or 5' 2".

I have never, ever seen a woman on the apps put an upper limit of any kind on men's height - "sorry you can't be over 5' 7" uh huh that sht just don't happen.

I am not on the apps but I know a lot do have a height minimum. And I think that’s ridiculous, especially because I know a number of woman who met their future husbands after they got rid of their height requirements.

I’m not going to say being short is an asset in the dating world. It does narrow your pool. Just like for some women, having big hips narrows their pool. That doesn’t mean lots of men (and women) don’t want a partner with big hips.

And I said it above but if you’re short, that’s that and you can’t change it. If you decide you need to compensate, you need to compensate with a better personality and not ripped biceps.