Wife constantly talking about how much men suck

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Several years ago I went through a phase like this. My poor husband was so patient at the time. What was really going on was that after the birth of my sons, I was forced to confront childhood sexual assaults I had essentially compartmentalized before that time. But having my little boys be the same age I was when I was assaulted and realizing just how vulnerable I was made me enormously angry, not just at my assaulter but at the world that coddled and protected him while leaving me vulnerable.

There are so, so many women with sex abuse in their histories, and we are taught not to talk about it. I didn’t tell anyone for years, not even my husband. But it festers and harms. And we don’t always handle it well.

I had to get therapy. And honestly, some days it is still a fight within myself not to be angry at what happened to me. But I don’t lash out at all men and in fact I am very careful not to because I have sons who are good boys and men, and I am married to a good man.

So maybe ask her what is going on? There might be more than you know.

This is a very interesting insight. My wife does have an history of being on the receiving end of sexual harassment if not necessarily sexual assault. The timing might have a correlation with our daughter reaching a similar age as when my wife had begun experiencing sexual harassment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think the main thing you need to do is take a minute and imagine how these things are making her feel, putting the “all” statements out of your head, and offer her some real sympathy. Same as if her dog died or her boss yelled at her. Just feeling understood and validated by somebody you live and care about can make you so much happier.

Let her work her own shit out. I am pretty sure she won’t be feeling heightened emotions about this forever. I had a phase like this too when I learned just how awful many men are. Let her manage her own feelings.

And don’t feel bad saying that you need a break from talking about it. If she knows you are in the same page and she feels heard and validated, any anger she might feel about you not being able to be a constant validation machine is her problem.

I don't think my validation has done much, if anything, to make her feel better about the world. Given the scope of the problem, it's a little like spitting in the ocean. I'm sure if I invalidated her feelings, it would be terrible. So, it's one of those "I could hurt but I can't help much" situations. I'd say her antipathy toward "men" has been a pretty consistent topic of conversation for the last six or seven years. So, I don't think it's a phase.

You know she thinks the same of you. It’s not like there are “good” men. Read through the posts here. “Men” are all the same and when she talks about these other men she is talking about you. She hates you because you are a man. She hates the boy at the pool, the boys at school, the man driving Uber, etc just as mush as she hates you. You really need to wake up.

Nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, they do suck.

My male friends say that men suck all the time.

My male friends do too. They also say that women are crazy. There's a reason I mainly stick to talking sports with a lot of these guys.

PP. Mine don’t say women are crazy. We do talk about sports a lot though. Went to a ball game with my friend on the weekend. There were a bunch of drunk hecklers behind us, throwing food and spilling beer everywhere. He kept apologizing to me for men being “such gross monkeys”.
Lots of guys are over toxic male behavior.

That's good to hear. I think men and boys getting the message that they also suffer from toxic masculinity, the patriarchy, etc. helps with this. Under our current patriarchal structures, a relatively small segment of men benefit from these toxic, aggressive behaviors. Most men and almost all women lose.

That’s what I try to do! Like my son is short and gets teased for it. It’s awful. But I explain to him that this is one result of toxic masculinity. We have an idea about how the ideal man should be (tall, for instance) and men and boys who don’t conform to that are denied that little bit of male privilege. Plus being small is a trait associated with women, and we teach men that female traits are bad, so any trait in a man that gets close to something feminine is ridiculed.

Women are worse at teasing short men than other guys are. Ever try to be in the dating scene at a 5’7 guy? You’ll get all sorts of insults. I feel bad for my brother in law. I’m 6’3 but my wife’s brother is 5’7 tops. He works out to compensate but it doesn’t matter. If your height begins with a 5 and you’re a guy have fun trying to score a girlfriend.

Obviously I know this. Everyone who has lived in a patriarchal society has seen both men and women ridicule short men for their height. I am married to a guy who is 5’7, my brother is 5’6, and my dad is 5’6. They all got teased in school.

Here is the thing: women have internalized Misogyny too. You see this all the time, not just in height but in the way some are turned on by the idea of a man making a lot of money (🤢) the way some women are turned off by a man crying or being a SAHD, etc. This is why if patriarchy were to be gone, it would be better for everybody.

By the way your wife’s brother should compensate with a better personality instead of trying to get more muscles. Lots of muscles is what men think women want, not what most women want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think the main thing you need to do is take a minute and imagine how these things are making her feel, putting the “all” statements out of your head, and offer her some real sympathy. Same as if her dog died or her boss yelled at her. Just feeling understood and validated by somebody you live and care about can make you so much happier.

Let her work her own shit out. I am pretty sure she won’t be feeling heightened emotions about this forever. I had a phase like this too when I learned just how awful many men are. Let her manage her own feelings.

And don’t feel bad saying that you need a break from talking about it. If she knows you are in the same page and she feels heard and validated, any anger she might feel about you not being able to be a constant validation machine is her problem.

I don't think my validation has done much, if anything, to make her feel better about the world. Given the scope of the problem, it's a little like spitting in the ocean. I'm sure if I invalidated her feelings, it would be terrible. So, it's one of those "I could hurt but I can't help much" situations. I'd say her antipathy toward "men" has been a pretty consistent topic of conversation for the last six or seven years. So, I don't think it's a phase.

She has been constantly complaining talking about how much men suck for six or seven years?

"Constantly" is an overstatement on my part. Something along those lines probably comes up at least two or three times a week and probably has been for something like six or seven years. It got much more frequent with the advent of #MeToo and during the Trump administration.

This will just get worst with age. The mental pathways get locked in and it very hard to change unless you get help. It turns into verbal abuse against you. Had a friend like this. She divorced her DH. Everyone could see it coming but the DH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Several years ago I went through a phase like this. My poor husband was so patient at the time. What was really going on was that after the birth of my sons, I was forced to confront childhood sexual assaults I had essentially compartmentalized before that time. But having my little boys be the same age I was when I was assaulted and realizing just how vulnerable I was made me enormously angry, not just at my assaulter but at the world that coddled and protected him while leaving me vulnerable.

There are so, so many women with sex abuse in their histories, and we are taught not to talk about it. I didn’t tell anyone for years, not even my husband. But it festers and harms. And we don’t always handle it well.

I had to get therapy. And honestly, some days it is still a fight within myself not to be angry at what happened to me. But I don’t lash out at all men and in fact I am very careful not to because I have sons who are good boys and men, and I am married to a good man.

So maybe ask her what is going on? There might be more than you know.

This is a very interesting insight. My wife does have an history of being on the receiving end of sexual harassment if not necessarily sexual assault. The timing might have a correlation with our daughter reaching a similar age as when my wife had begun experiencing sexual harassment.

PP here. I would seriously consider that as a possible trigger. For women with a history of assault and harassment, it can be extremely difficult to come to grips with seeing your children reach the same age you were when you were assaulted or harassed. It forces you to confront what happened, because you have a concrete example of just exactly how vulnerable you were right in front of you. And you have to live with the fear of that happening to your kids because the world has not changed, not really. I suspect your wife is looking at your daughter and is terrified for her, and isn’t handling it well.

Did she ever get therapy for the harassment, or attend a support group, or anything like that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, they do suck.

My male friends say that men suck all the time.

My male friends do too. They also say that women are crazy. There's a reason I mainly stick to talking sports with a lot of these guys.

PP. Mine don’t say women are crazy. We do talk about sports a lot though. Went to a ball game with my friend on the weekend. There were a bunch of drunk hecklers behind us, throwing food and spilling beer everywhere. He kept apologizing to me for men being “such gross monkeys”.
Lots of guys are over toxic male behavior.

That's good to hear. I think men and boys getting the message that they also suffer from toxic masculinity, the patriarchy, etc. helps with this. Under our current patriarchal structures, a relatively small segment of men benefit from these toxic, aggressive behaviors. Most men and almost all women lose.

That’s what I try to do! Like my son is short and gets teased for it. It’s awful. But I explain to him that this is one result of toxic masculinity. We have an idea about how the ideal man should be (tall, for instance) and men and boys who don’t conform to that are denied that little bit of male privilege. Plus being small is a trait associated with women, and we teach men that female traits are bad, so any trait in a man that gets close to something feminine is ridiculed.

Women are worse at teasing short men than other guys are. Ever try to be in the dating scene at a 5’7 guy? You’ll get all sorts of insults. I feel bad for my brother in law. I’m 6’3 but my wife’s brother is 5’7 tops. He works out to compensate but it doesn’t matter. If your height begins with a 5 and you’re a guy have fun trying to score a girlfriend.

Obviously I know this. Everyone who has lived in a patriarchal society has seen both men and women ridicule short men for their height. I am married to a guy who is 5’7, my brother is 5’6, and my dad is 5’6. They all got teased in school.

Here is the thing: [i]women have internalized Misogyny too. [b]You see this all the time, not just in height but in the way some are turned on by the idea of a man making a lot of money (🤢) the way some women are turned off by a man crying or being a SAHD, etc. This is why if patriarchy were to be gone, it would be better for everybody.

By the way your wife’s brother should compensate with a better personality instead of trying to get more muscles. Lots of muscles is what men think women want, not what most women want.

No. It’s what women want. It’s not the patriarchal society. Also tall kids get teased just like short kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think the main thing you need to do is take a minute and imagine how these things are making her feel, putting the “all” statements out of your head, and offer her some real sympathy. Same as if her dog died or her boss yelled at her. Just feeling understood and validated by somebody you live and care about can make you so much happier.

Let her work her own shit out. I am pretty sure she won’t be feeling heightened emotions about this forever. I had a phase like this too when I learned just how awful many men are. Let her manage her own feelings.

And don’t feel bad saying that you need a break from talking about it. If she knows you are in the same page and she feels heard and validated, any anger she might feel about you not being able to be a constant validation machine is her problem.

I don't think my validation has done much, if anything, to make her feel better about the world. Given the scope of the problem, it's a little like spitting in the ocean. I'm sure if I invalidated her feelings, it would be terrible. So, it's one of those "I could hurt but I can't help much" situations. I'd say her antipathy toward "men" has been a pretty consistent topic of conversation for the last six or seven years. So, I don't think it's a phase.

Can I ask you - as a good guy - what exactly do you do beyond “validate” her? Do you vote? March? Gove lots of money or volunteer time to pro-choice candidates? Are you proactively fully and equally sharing in parenting and running the household? Are you actively teaching your kids not to accept or dish out shitty male behavior? Do you oppose others explicitly and vocally in your friendship and work circles when they say/do shitty male stuff? Are you actively lifting up and supporting women to accomplish their personal and career goals? Are you a real ally, in deeds, or just someone who says with their words that they are an ally?

If you are not actively and vocally part of the solution 24-7, you are part of the problem. And, frankly, in the wake of the Dobbs draft release, many women just have an even more limited tolerance for shitty male behavior. It’s wrecking our lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think the main thing you need to do is take a minute and imagine how these things are making her feel, putting the “all” statements out of your head, and offer her some real sympathy. Same as if her dog died or her boss yelled at her. Just feeling understood and validated by somebody you live and care about can make you so much happier.

Let her work her own shit out. I am pretty sure she won’t be feeling heightened emotions about this forever. I had a phase like this too when I learned just how awful many men are. Let her manage her own feelings.

And don’t feel bad saying that you need a break from talking about it. If she knows you are in the same page and she feels heard and validated, any anger she might feel about you not being able to be a constant validation machine is her problem.

I don't think my validation has done much, if anything, to make her feel better about the world. Given the scope of the problem, it's a little like spitting in the ocean. I'm sure if I invalidated her feelings, it would be terrible. So, it's one of those "I could hurt but I can't help much" situations. I'd say her antipathy toward "men" has been a pretty consistent topic of conversation for the last six or seven years. So, I don't think it's a phase.

You know she thinks the same of you. It’s not like there are “good” men. Read through the posts here. “Men” are all the same and when she talks about these other men she is talking about you. She hates you because you are a man. She hates the boy at the pool, the boys at school, the man driving Uber, etc just as mush as she hates you. You really need to wake up.

Nonsense.

Denial

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, they do suck.

My male friends say that men suck all the time.

My male friends do too. They also say that women are crazy. There's a reason I mainly stick to talking sports with a lot of these guys.

PP. Mine don’t say women are crazy. We do talk about sports a lot though. Went to a ball game with my friend on the weekend. There were a bunch of drunk hecklers behind us, throwing food and spilling beer everywhere. He kept apologizing to me for men being “such gross monkeys”.
Lots of guys are over toxic male behavior.

That's good to hear. I think men and boys getting the message that they also suffer from toxic masculinity, the patriarchy, etc. helps with this. Under our current patriarchal structures, a relatively small segment of men benefit from these toxic, aggressive behaviors. Most men and almost all women lose.

That’s what I try to do! Like my son is short and gets teased for it. It’s awful. But I explain to him that this is one result of toxic masculinity. We have an idea about how the ideal man should be (tall, for instance) and men and boys who don’t conform to that are denied that little bit of male privilege. Plus being small is a trait associated with women, and we teach men that female traits are bad, so any trait in a man that gets close to something feminine is ridiculed.

Women are worse at teasing short men than other guys are. Ever try to be in the dating scene at a 5’7 guy? You’ll get all sorts of insults. I feel bad for my brother in law. I’m 6’3 but my wife’s brother is 5’7 tops. He works out to compensate but it doesn’t matter. If your height begins with a 5 and you’re a guy have fun trying to score a girlfriend.

I literally swipe left on anything that begins with a 6. 5'10" is the absolute tallest I can stand. My shortest boyfriend was 5'2". Most have been around 5'6" or 7".
The men in my family are all around 5'5". All doctors, all wealthy, all with beautiful wives for 20+ years.
It's about confidence and treating women right. And not viewing finding a partner as "scoring a girlfriend".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Several years ago I went through a phase like this. My poor husband was so patient at the time. What was really going on was that after the birth of my sons, I was forced to confront childhood sexual assaults I had essentially compartmentalized before that time. But having my little boys be the same age I was when I was assaulted and realizing just how vulnerable I was made me enormously angry, not just at my assaulter but at the world that coddled and protected him while leaving me vulnerable.

There are so, so many women with sex abuse in their histories, and we are taught not to talk about it. I didn’t tell anyone for years, not even my husband. But it festers and harms. And we don’t always handle it well.

I had to get therapy. And honestly, some days it is still a fight within myself not to be angry at what happened to me. But I don’t lash out at all men and in fact I am very careful not to because I have sons who are good boys and men, and I am married to a good man.

So maybe ask her what is going on? There might be more than you know.

This is a very interesting insight. My wife does have an history of being on the receiving end of sexual harassment if not necessarily sexual assault. The timing might have a correlation with our daughter reaching a similar age as when my wife had begun experiencing sexual harassment.

PP here. I would seriously consider that as a possible trigger. For women with a history of assault and harassment, it can be extremely difficult to come to grips with seeing your children reach the same age you were when you were assaulted or harassed. It forces you to confront what happened, because you have a concrete example of just exactly how vulnerable you were right in front of you. And you have to live with the fear of that happening to your kids because the world has not changed, not really. I suspect your wife is looking at your daughter and is terrified for her, and isn’t handling it well.

Did she ever get therapy for the harassment, or attend a support group, or anything like that?

She's in therapy right now. She started that about a year ago.

It's a little different, but I went through something like that triggering experience quite a while ago. My dad left our family when I was little. I didn't think it bothered me that much. But when my son reached the age I was when my dad left, I started feeling very angry about my father. When I thought about him leaving us, it somehow felt like he was doing it to my son. So, in that sense, I get it. Thanks for raising it as a possibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

If you are not actively and vocally part of the solution 24-7, you are part of the problem.

Stop it. This "with us or against us" ultimatum was bullshit when George W. Bush said it. It was bullshit when Ibram Kendi said it. And it's no better when you say it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I literally swipe left on anything that begins with a 6. 5'10" is the absolute tallest I can stand. My shortest boyfriend was 5'2". Most have been around 5'6" or 7".
The men in my family are all around 5'5". All doctors, all wealthy, all with beautiful wives for 20+ years.
It's about confidence and treating women right. And not viewing finding a partner as "scoring a girlfriend".

(Manlet pretending to be a woman who loves manlets and only knows other women who also love manlets. Cope and seethe all you want, manlet, women don't care about your "confidence" they care about your height.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, they do suck.

My male friends say that men suck all the time.

My male friends do too. They also say that women are crazy. There's a reason I mainly stick to talking sports with a lot of these guys.

PP. Mine don’t say women are crazy. We do talk about sports a lot though. Went to a ball game with my friend on the weekend. There were a bunch of drunk hecklers behind us, throwing food and spilling beer everywhere. He kept apologizing to me for men being “such gross monkeys”.
Lots of guys are over toxic male behavior.

That's good to hear. I think men and boys getting the message that they also suffer from toxic masculinity, the patriarchy, etc. helps with this. Under our current patriarchal structures, a relatively small segment of men benefit from these toxic, aggressive behaviors. Most men and almost all women lose.

That’s what I try to do! Like my son is short and gets teased for it. It’s awful. But I explain to him that this is one result of toxic masculinity. We have an idea about how the ideal man should be (tall, for instance) and men and boys who don’t conform to that are denied that little bit of male privilege. Plus being small is a trait associated with women, and we teach men that female traits are bad, so any trait in a man that gets close to something feminine is ridiculed.

Women are worse at teasing short men than other guys are. Ever try to be in the dating scene at a 5’7 guy? You’ll get all sorts of insults. I feel bad for my brother in law. I’m 6’3 but my wife’s brother is 5’7 tops. He works out to compensate but it doesn’t matter. If your height begins with a 5 and you’re a guy have fun trying to score a girlfriend.

Obviously I know this. Everyone who has lived in a patriarchal society has seen both men and women ridicule short men for their height. I am married to a guy who is 5’7, my brother is 5’6, and my dad is 5’6. They all got teased in school.

Here is the thing: [i]women have internalized Misogyny too. [b]You see this all the time, not just in height but in the way some are turned on by the idea of a man making a lot of money (🤢) the way some women are turned off by a man crying or being a SAHD, etc. This is why if patriarchy were to be gone, it would be better for everybody.

By the way your wife’s brother should compensate with a better personality instead of trying to get more muscles. Lots of muscles is what men think women want, not what most women want.

No. It’s what women want. It’s not the patriarchal society. Also tall kids get teased just like short kids.

I’m a woman and a guy who lifts weights is not what I wanted. I wanted a guy who cuddles and makes me laugh. And I am like the vast majority of women. Actually short men trying to compensate with weights has become a bit of a trope because those types can be sooooo obnoxious. I have seen so many tinder profiles of short men (clearly lying about their height) using shameless gym selfies and say things like “I’m looking for somebody who doesn’t take herself too seriously and my most controversial opinion is pineapples belong on pizza 🤪🤪🤪” and it’s just sad.

I highly recommend this article about a guy who got way more swipes after he took down his gym selfies.

https://www.refinery29.com/en-gb/2021/08/10577988/tik-tok-dating-app-profile-feedback

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think people often get stuck in complaint loops with this stuff. The PPs who talked about spouses who became obsessed about ranting about Trump are onto something. My DH is like this and even though I agree with him, I really hit a wall with having to hear for the 4000th how mad DH was about something or other Trump had done. Or wanting to watch the Daily Show or Seth Myers just to be able to nod along with the jokes about how bad Trump is. Again, I agree, but I can't steep myself in the misery of it. It seems masochistic.

I think ranting about how men are awful is similar. I think this became a loop a lot of women got stuck in after #MeToo, just something they could turn to when frustrated or a mini-philosophy about the world. So now when they see or experiencing something bad, they turn to "men suck" and it makes them feel better because at least they can explain it.

I agree it's way too simplistic and really doesn't capture what is going on with misogyny and patriarchy. For starters, women reinforce misogyny and patriarchy ALL THE TIME. Even women who describe themselves as feminists do this. I know women who went to the women's march and proudly declare themselves feminists, but who will say things about women they know like, "Well of course her husband doesn't help around the house -- she's really let herself go since they had kids and he doesn't feel appreciated." That's a direct quote, by the way. Many women have become kind of knee jerk feminists who want to cheerlead women in general, and can get very angry on their own behalf when they sense misogyny at play, but otherwise just blindly buy into lots of misogynist notions about women and relationships without much introspection.

OP, maybe you can start pointing out when women reinforce patriarchy to your wife. Start with easy ones, like Kelly Ann Conway or Johnny Depp's lawyer. It might force your wife to start recognizing that patriarchy is actually a lot more complicated than just "men suck" and that there are actually plenty of women in positions of power or authority who benefit from patriarchy more than certain men do, often because of their class status, their whiteness, or their willingness to betray other women. Eventually maybe your wife will evolve her philosophy to something a bit more accurate, like "people suck, especially when doing so helps them oppress others." Or "systems of oppression suck." Not as catchy but a lot more accurate. Good luck!

A few more:

Amy Coney Barrett
Susan Collins
Ginny Thomas

There are so many terrible, terrible women in the world, I just don't understand how you can maintain "men suck" as a viable opinion unless you are willing to concede that both genders suck?

If you wanted examples of "terrible" women, you could have named somebody who is actually awful based on her actions, such as Ghislaine Maxwell. You named famous, successful, women who happen to be on the opposite side of political issues than you. Tell me this - is Patrisse Cullers, the founder of Black Lives Matter who was arrested for embezzling donation money, a "terrible" woman in your book?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I literally swipe left on anything that begins with a 6. 5'10" is the absolute tallest I can stand. My shortest boyfriend was 5'2". Most have been around 5'6" or 7".
The men in my family are all around 5'5". All doctors, all wealthy, all with beautiful wives for 20+ years.
It's about confidence and treating women right. And not viewing finding a partner as "scoring a girlfriend".

(Manlet pretending to be a woman who loves manlets and only knows other women who also love manlets. Cope and seethe all you want, manlet, women don't care about your "confidence" they care about your height.)

You are definitely a bitter man. Plenty of women don’t want to be with somebody who is 12 inches taller. DH has six inches on me, which makes him 5’7 and it’s perfect. Also, Google “short king”.

Lots and lots of women do want taller men but many of us don’t.

It’s amazing how women can tell men what they want until we are blue in the face and they’ll be like “nah, I know what these ladies are really after.”