Should I try to become more of a sorority girl / PTA mom?

[Anonymous]

I grew up in an immigrant family. My mom and grandma pushed me to be a "real woman" - to get better at clothes/hair/makeup/nails, learn to flirt, be coy and alluring - so that I would one day get a husband.

I was more of a tomboy, really loved reading and debating big ideas. I have a sarcastic personality and big feelings - like, I get really excited about good things and really sad about bad ones. I did have some interest in clothes and boys, but I never mastered any of these "womanly" skills.

My mom's/grandma's constant advice on improving myself led to really low confidence. I didn't fit in at school and no boys were interested in me (probably a self-fulfilling prophecy).

In college, I bounced back and met my husband who is a nerd like me. He has a low sex drive, but overall sex was good and he really did not seem to care about my looks. He would still have sex if I looked like a mess, and on the flip side, if I got really dressed up, it would make no difference in his interest.

Fast forward 15 years, we have 2 kids and I still don't look/act like the PTA moms, former sorority girls, or whatever the right term is for women who look really put together, skinny, with great social skills and feminine mannerisms. I'm not overweight or ugly - just awkward. I have tried to improve myself, but it never seems to work, and money is really tight. I can't really afford regular nails, highlights and wardrobe updates - and honestly what I would need is a professional to make me over which is wildly outside the budget.

My husband recently has been saying that it would be nice to be married to a sorority girl - because it would be easier, more pleasant, etc. But he doesn't like it when I spend money to improve myself on the outside, and as far as changing on the inside, he thinks with my personality it's impossible for me to become bubbly and sweet. He says he loves me the way I am, but it sounds like he's saying it's okay that I'm second best. (And he of course acknowledges that he's not like a Type A "frat guy" himself, but it almost sounds like he's saying we just both need to give up and accept being losers together).

So, were my mom and grandma right? Would learning to be more feminine (either on the outside, inside, or both) have benefits for life/marriage?

[Anonymous]

"I have a sarcastic personality"

Yes, men love women like that. "sarcastic personality" = "I have a big, fat, stupid mouth"

[Anonymous]

I'm like you, I think. I never bothered. You should use your sarcasm to make it clear to your DH that you won't put up with comments like that, that sorority girls are silly. Use your wit to change his mind and appreciate all the trade-offs of dealing with a sorority girl, $$$ being the first thing that comes to mind.

[Anonymous]

Sigh. You're looking at this ALL wrong. Both of you. You've got to highlight the overlap of things you love about yourself and the things you perceive others will love about you. It's a Venn diagram sort of project. Do not force yourself to be something you're not!

You're smart, OP. Take a scientific approach to this. Observe your figure. Don't follow trends. Find clothes that flatter the body you have. Humans are hardwired, not to find the latest fashion attractive, but to find an hourglass figure attractive. Just because the new "it" pants are baggy, it doesn't mean you can't find something that highlights (or creates the illusion of) a slim waist. Or maybe you have long slender legs, and might want to wear shorter skirts, or shorts on weekends. Or maybe you have a lovely hair, and need to condition it better and wear it differently. Maybe your skin care routine isn't making your skin glow as much as it could, so you need to pare down, and test a few products, sleep better, eat cleaner, take a multivitamin.

You don't need to do your nails at a salon or get your hair cut regularly. You don't need to slather on a ton of make-up. You can have a low-maintenance lifestyle and do much of this at home and still look great. Sunscreen and retinol (if you can tolerate it) will go a long way towards making you look ageless for a many years.

I've never stepped foot in a mani-pedi place in my life, but my nails look well-kept all the time. I'm 43 and need to color my greys, which I do at home, no problem. I hate looking like everyone else and know exactly what I like in terms of clothes, so I go on Poshmark and find interesting things that flatter my figure. I happen to have a slim waist, and high-waisted clothes look good on me, so it's high-waisted pants, skirts, and dresses with a structured high waist. I avoid drop waists like the plague, my legs are short enough already. I know what colors suit my skin tone. I have sensitive skin that blushes quickly, which is both good and bad, because I can't use most skin care products, but then again, I'm rosy enough to begin with

I, too, love snark and sarcasm, but I know when to tone it down and when to let it rip.

The goal is to feel confident and happy with what you're doing with your body and personality. Confidence is supremely attractive.

[Anonymous]

You seem so profoundly uncomfortable in your own skin that it breaks my heart. Get therapy, stat. There are low-cost options out there if money is an issue.

And FWIW, I know plenty of “PTA moms” of all shapes and sizes and hair and fashion choices and personalities. I say this gently, but perhaps putting more energy into getting confident with what *you* value would serve you better than trying to pretend you value what some other women do. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm like you, I think. I never bothered. You should use your sarcasm to make it clear to your DH that you won't put up with comments like that, that sorority girls are silly. Use your wit to change his mind and appreciate all the trade-offs of dealing with a sorority girl, $$$ being the first thing that comes to mind.

+1. Although I’d try to do it without tearing down other women.

Maybe say “it would be nice to be married to someone who made $500k a year - because it would be easier, more pleasant, etc”.

Or insert whatever quality that you would appreciate in a spouse that your H doesn’t have, such as

“it would be nice to be married to someone who wasn’t a hypocritical jerk…” or

“it would be nice to be married to someone who would take the lead on the superficial social interactions that he wants, rather than being a schlub who expects his wife to do it, even if she’s not interested…”

[Anonymous]

Has your husband ever met an actual sorority girl?

As one, you can tell him that I said he needs to learn to edit his thoughts. Every single impulse that pops in his head doesn’t need to be encouraged let alone shared.

That’s how a real sorority girl talks.

Also, Google UMD sorority girl rant. I wasn’t there, but it’s a tale as old as time.

[Anonymous]

I think you need to keep yourself the same.

And lose/change the husband.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you need to keep yourself the same.

And lose/change the husband.

Yes.

He also might be having an affair

[Anonymous]

Another incel thread

[Anonymous]

This is a husband issue, not a you issue. Don't change youself. I'm probably what your husband thinks of when he's talking about the sorority girl /PTA mom. At least on the surface. I'm actually a huge nerd and have social anxiety. Luckily our PTA isn't a stereotype of a PTA and everyone is nice and welcoming.

I'd sit down and talk to him about what he means about it being more pleasant and easier. Is your sarcasm causing issues with you guys making friends? Do people find you abrasive? Does he find you abrasive? It seems like there are some other issues going on and maybe you two need to sit down and hash those out

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm like you, I think. I never bothered. You should use your sarcasm to make it clear to your DH that you won't put up with comments like that, that sorority girls are silly. Use your wit to change his mind and appreciate all the trade-offs of dealing with a sorority girl, $$$ being the first thing that comes to mind.

+1. Although I’d try to do it without tearing down other women.

Maybe say “it would be nice to be married to someone who made $500k a year - because it would be easier, more pleasant, etc”.

Or insert whatever quality that you would appreciate in a spouse that your H doesn’t have, such as

“it would be nice to be married to someone who wasn’t a hypocritical jerk…” or

“it would be nice to be married to someone who would take the lead on the superficial social interactions that he wants, rather than being a schlub who expects his wife to do it, even if she’s not interested…”

I would only say these if you want a fight. You can get the same spirit across with different language.

I also grew up in an immigrant house but with a 180 degree upbringing. I was expected to be hard nose, high achieving, independent. and not very soft. Now I am 50 and think that extreme wasn’t great either.

The poster above had nice comments on fashion so I’ll focus on personality. Know when to bring out the sarcasm and when it kept locked down. It is a knife and you want to use a knife with care. As a child of immigrants, you should be familiar with code switching? It’s kind of like that. There are times where showing a softer personality will make things easier for you too. I mean, wouldn’t most people prefer a spouse who is kinder to
them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another incel thread

I agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in an immigrant family. My mom and grandma pushed me to be a "real woman" - to get better at clothes/hair/makeup/nails, learn to flirt, be coy and alluring - so that I would one day get a husband.

I was more of a tomboy, really loved reading and debating big ideas. I have a sarcastic personality and big feelings - like, I get really excited about good things and really sad about bad ones. I did have some interest in clothes and boys, but I never mastered any of these "womanly" skills.

My mom's/grandma's constant advice on improving myself led to really low confidence. I didn't fit in at school and no boys were interested in me (probably a self-fulfilling prophecy).

In college, I bounced back and met my husband who is a nerd like me. He has a low sex drive, but overall sex was good and he really did not seem to care about my looks. He would still have sex if I looked like a mess, and on the flip side, if I got really dressed up, it would make no difference in his interest.

Fast forward 15 years, we have 2 kids and I still don't look/act like the PTA moms, former sorority girls, or whatever the right term is for women who look really put together, skinny, with great social skills and feminine mannerisms. I'm not overweight or ugly - just awkward. I have tried to improve myself, but it never seems to work, and money is really tight. I can't really afford regular nails, highlights and wardrobe updates - and honestly what I would need is a professional to make me over which is wildly outside the budget.

My husband recently has been saying that it would be nice to be married to a sorority girl - because it would be easier, more pleasant, etc. But he doesn't like it when I spend money to improve myself on the outside, and as far as changing on the inside, he thinks with my personality it's impossible for me to become bubbly and sweet. He says he loves me the way I am, but it sounds like he's saying it's okay that I'm second best. (And he of course acknowledges that he's not like a Type A "frat guy" himself, but it almost sounds like he's saying we just both need to give up and accept being losers together).

So, were my mom and grandma right? Would learning to be more feminine (either on the outside, inside, or both) have benefits for life/marriage?

Troll

Too long

Go back to Reddit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another incel thread

I agree.

OP here. I am not an incel, like I said, I've been married for 15 years, and I'm a woman. I post these long things here because whom can I admit this to in real life?

I have talked to my mom about it and she regrets messing up my self confidence, but she herself is a victim of my grandma. Who is still alive and still critical, but we've accepted that she will never ever understand. Grandma had a super traumatic childhood herself (alcoholic father, DV), and her mom had an even worse childhood (dumped in an orphanage), so it's this generations-long trauma that haunts my outwardly great UMC life.

I have been to several therapists, and they've helped me with various issues, but not this overwhelming self-doubt. My DH is not very verbal or expressive, and I think over the years my issues have dragged his self-confidence down too. My job doesn't include much positive feedback by design (though I believe I am pretty competent at it, no one is telling me that.) Obviously, my kids aren't going to compliment me for being a good mom. Between work and kids, I haven't had time to develop any hobbies I am particularly good at. As I said in the OP, I'm not particularly beautiful and don't have poise/personality.

I have not been able to get a group of close girlfriends that I can share all of this with and get support. I've moved around a lot and, again, I don't have the sorority girl personality. I have people to hang out with more or less, but I'm not going to scare them away by dumping this sh*t on them.

So, I thought maybe I could build self-confidence by becoming more feminine inside and out. But honestly the responses calling me a troll make me kind of regret posting this.