The mysterious marriage and dating market

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Other girls who are also pretty and have good jobs keep getting their heart broken and either find low quality partners or wind up single."

First off, most men don't care about your job, or your money. So stop leading with that. Men care first and foremost about your looks, if you're friendly and cooperative, and physically in shape. They want to be with women who smile, laugh and make their lives more peaceful instead of being another competitor. Women who treat them with basic civility and respect. If they want children, they are looking for a childless woman who shows signs of being a good, dedicated mother.

I know a lot of men who have left the dating scene because they cannot seem to find women who tick even half these boxes anymore.

These other women have been snapped up because they have tick all of these boxes, or at least most of them. So what are you doing wrong, OP, and how can you change it? Think about what men want.

My exHusband certainly did. He had an income requirement for dating. A lot of men care about a woman's income if they are considering marriage.

It depends. Most men do not care. If you have one that does that is a red flag that there could be issues. Guys want fun, happy, smart, mother material and while looks are important, the range is extremely wide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Other girls who are also pretty and have good jobs keep getting their heart broken and either find low quality partners or wind up single."

First off, most men don't care about your job, or your money. So stop leading with that. Men care first and foremost about your looks, if you're friendly and cooperative, and physically in shape. They want to be with women who smile, laugh and make their lives more peaceful instead of being another competitor. Women who treat them with basic civility and respect. If they want children, they are looking for a childless woman who shows signs of being a good, dedicated mother.

I know a lot of men who have left the dating scene because they cannot seem to find women who tick even half these boxes anymore.

These other women have been snapped up because they have tick all of these boxes, or at least most of them. So what are you doing wrong, OP, and how can you change it? Think about what men want.

My exHusband certainly did. He had an income requirement for dating. A lot of men care about a woman's income if they are considering marriage.

It depends. Most men do not care. If you have one that does that is a red flag that there could be issues. Guys want fun, happy, smart, mother material and while looks are important, the range is extremely wide.

IME most men DO care. I have known very few men in my life who truly didn’t. And they didn’t tend to think much about the long term, which is a big red flag.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It all seems so random to me. I don’t understand how certain girls attract the perfect partner and live more or less happily married. They also get the good quality guys chasing them when and if they are single.

Other girls who are also pretty and have good jobs keep getting their heart broken and either find low quality partners or wind up single.

Is there a magic sauce to being desirable to men?

I’m not sure if it’s looks as I’ve known plenty of beautiful friends who have attracted poor quality men and relationships.

I am older (early 50s) but it seems like a lot of successful long-term matches are made in college and graduate school. The post-collegiate market dating scene is significantly chancier in that you need to wade through a lot of muck to find that right person. Online dating is its own form of hell.

Wow, I'm in my early fifties too, and nearly every couple I know who met early in life, including college and grad school, is either miserable or divorcing. College and grad school are too early to know who you're going to become in life.

The magic is to focus on your own career. Marriage after you've accomplished things and you're at least self-sufficient. I don't mean you need to wait until 40. But wait at least until your late twenties. I can not emphasize enough how much some of these "college/grad sweetheart couples" DESPISE each other by their fifties. It's frightening.

Maybe we are in different circles and I admit income may be an issue but I do not know a single couple who met in college or grad school that is divorcing. Those are the people who stay together. Again, could be an income issue. Circle is mostly biglaw partners. Only A holes get divorced. The ones you could see coming. Others, quite often two lawyer couples, do just fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tom Hanks & Rita Wilson have been married forever it seems.

Goldie + Kurt are not married but seem to have a solid, long-term relationship.

It all is based on luck.
Not beauty, charm or brains.

It is absolutely not all luck. IME the women who marry best are assertive go-getters with high self esteem and somewhat cutthroat and narcissistic. Then there is another tier of substantive, accomplished women who married medium guys and made it work. I have several friends who are incredible, successful, accomplished people (doctors, entrepreneurs) who do most of the work of parenthood and are the glue keeping their marriage together to guys who earn and contribute less in every way, but who are decedent and faithful and whom they decided to love. This second their are IMO much finer people than the first in every way.

so basically women who don't marry well have no one to blame but themselves. what a bunch of nonsense.

I mean they can definitely also blame the men on the other thread freaking out about the idea that a woman wants to date a man with a decent salary. If that’s the message they’re getting during the dating years I understand how so many people wind up married to underemployed man-children— looking for anything more is portrayed as gold digging.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Other girls who are also pretty and have good jobs keep getting their heart broken and either find low quality partners or wind up single."

First off, most men don't care about your job, or your money. So stop leading with that. Men care first and foremost about your looks, if you're friendly and cooperative, and physically in shape. They want to be with women who smile, laugh and make their lives more peaceful instead of being another competitor. Women who treat them with basic civility and respect. If they want children, they are looking for a childless woman who shows signs of being a good, dedicated mother.

I know a lot of men who have left the dating scene because they cannot seem to find women who tick even half these boxes anymore.

These other women have been snapped up because they have tick all of these boxes, or at least most of them. So what are you doing wrong, OP, and how can you change it? Think about what men want.

My exHusband certainly did. He had an income requirement for dating. A lot of men care about a woman's income if they are considering marriage.

It depends. Most men do not care. If you have one that does that is a red flag that there could be issues. Guys want fun, happy, smart, mother material and while looks are important, the range is extremely wide.

IME most men DO care. I have known very few men in my life who truly didn’t. And they didn’t tend to think much about the long term, which is a big red flag.

Depends on the guy. Most type A high earners, doctors, lawyers really couldn't care less. Now most end up marrying peers but not because they care what the women did -- it was because of where they met them -- mostly in school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Other girls who are also pretty and have good jobs keep getting their heart broken and either find low quality partners or wind up single."

First off, most men don't care about your job, or your money. So stop leading with that. Men care first and foremost about your looks, if you're friendly and cooperative, and physically in shape. They want to be with women who smile, laugh and make their lives more peaceful instead of being another competitor. Women who treat them with basic civility and respect. If they want children, they are looking for a childless woman who shows signs of being a good, dedicated mother.

I know a lot of men who have left the dating scene because they cannot seem to find women who tick even half these boxes anymore.

These other women have been snapped up because they have tick all of these boxes, or at least most of them. So what are you doing wrong, OP, and how can you change it? Think about what men want.

My exHusband certainly did. He had an income requirement for dating. A lot of men care about a woman's income if they are considering marriage.

It depends. Most men do not care. If you have one that does that is a red flag that there could be issues. Guys want fun, happy, smart, mother material and while looks are important, the range is extremely wide.

IME most men DO care. I have known very few men in my life who truly didn’t. And they didn’t tend to think much about the long term, which is a big red flag.

Depends on the guy. Most type A high earners, doctors, lawyers really couldn't care less. Now most end up marrying peers but not because they care what the women did -- it was because of where they met them -- mostly in school.

Well, MOST men I know care and the majority of my circle are high earners. I did go to law school and men there absolutely cared. It wasn’t just about them dating who was around them. They’d discuss it openly. And wanting to date med or MBA students from the same institution. I also know a lot of Wall Street traders and they care too. Could be generational maybe. I think older men didn’t care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Other girls who are also pretty and have good jobs keep getting their heart broken and either find low quality partners or wind up single."

First off, most men don't care about your job, or your money. So stop leading with that. Men care first and foremost about your looks, if you're friendly and cooperative, and physically in shape. They want to be with women who smile, laugh and make their lives more peaceful instead of being another competitor. Women who treat them with basic civility and respect. If they want children, they are looking for a childless woman who shows signs of being a good, dedicated mother.

I know a lot of men who have left the dating scene because they cannot seem to find women who tick even half these boxes anymore.

These other women have been snapped up because they have tick all of these boxes, or at least most of them. So what are you doing wrong, OP, and how can you change it? Think about what men want.

My exHusband certainly did. He had an income requirement for dating. A lot of men care about a woman's income if they are considering marriage.

It depends. Most men do not care. If you have one that does that is a red flag that there could be issues. Guys want fun, happy, smart, mother material and while looks are important, the range is extremely wide.

IME most men DO care. I have known very few men in my life who truly didn’t. And they didn’t tend to think much about the long term, which is a big red flag.

Depends on the guy. Most type A high earners, doctors, lawyers really couldn't care less. Now most end up marrying peers but not because they care what the women did -- it was because of where they met them -- mostly in school.

Well, MOST men I know care and the majority of my circle are high earners. I did go to law school and men there absolutely cared. It wasn’t just about them dating who was around them. They’d discuss it openly. And wanting to date med or MBA students from the same institution. I also know a lot of Wall Street traders and they care too. Could be generational maybe. I think older men didn’t care.

Most men especially in this day and age do care about what women financially bring to the table. UMC men care the most people they are in that weird position of quickly losing their status as the middle class disappears.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP your problem is a vanishingly small percentage of men make over $150k, and they can date women younger and prettier than you. Unless you are in the right circles at the right age, you have to settle for some dork Fed or something.

??? I’m in my 30s and live in the DC metro area and I doubt I know a man here who makes less than $150k.

Do you mean you don’t DATE such men or you don’t know them? Is that even possible? Don’t you have a hair dresser, a friend who works in a restaurant, any friends who are teachers, any friends who are artists or musicians, any friends who are social workers or nurses etc etc etc?

No I mean I don’t know them at all. My hairdresser owns his own salon downtown. I don’t know what his exact salary is but he also lives in my neighborhood so I am sure he does well. I don’t have a friend who works in a restaurant but doesn’t own it. I don’t have any musician friends. Every nurse I know is a woman. The only teachers I know are at the higher ed level (professors or deans). Even my untenured prof friend makes over $150k.

And NONE of these men think they’re rich or entitled to pretty 20 somethings. Those that are single date women their own age and with similar looks.

No, he decidedly does not.

[Anonymous]

Emotional health is a big factor. I spent years in therapy, pulling myself together. Because I was in a good place, I attracted a husband who is emotionally in a good place.

I didn’t meet DH in my twenties, but taking dating seriously during that time was helpful. By the time I met him, I was able to recognize that we would be a good match fairly quickly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP your problem is a vanishingly small percentage of men make over $150k, and they can date women younger and prettier than you. Unless you are in the right circles at the right age, you have to settle for some dork Fed or something.

??? I’m in my 30s and live in the DC metro area and I doubt I know a man here who makes less than $150k.

1) you don’t know any teachers, NGO workers, GS14 Feds? Only lawyers and lobbyists?

2) all those 30s men are looking at 20s women

DP. I know very few men married to younger women (I'm 38 and most of our friends are married). I don't think this is the norm in professional circles. The couples I know are virtually all within four years of each other, and among my college friends the woman is just as likely to be slightly older. I know zero couples with a 10-year age gap.

Who we like to date is often not who we'd prefer to be married to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP your problem is a vanishingly small percentage of men make over $150k, and they can date women younger and prettier than you. Unless you are in the right circles at the right age, you have to settle for some dork Fed or something.

??? I’m in my 30s and live in the DC metro area and I doubt I know a man here who makes less than $150k.

Do you mean you don’t DATE such men or you don’t know them? Is that even possible? Don’t you have a hair dresser, a friend who works in a restaurant, any friends who are teachers, any friends who are artists or musicians, any friends who are social workers or nurses etc etc etc?

No I mean I don’t know them at all. My hairdresser owns his own salon downtown. I don’t know what his exact salary is but he also lives in my neighborhood so I am sure he does well. I don’t have a friend who works in a restaurant but doesn’t own it. I don’t have any musician friends. Every nurse I know is a woman. The only teachers I know are at the higher ed level (professors or deans). Even my untenured prof friend makes over $150k.

And NONE of these men think they’re rich or entitled to pretty 20 somethings. Those that are single date women their own age and with similar looks.

No, he decidedly does not.

+1. There's no way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Other girls who are also pretty and have good jobs keep getting their heart broken and either find low quality partners or wind up single."

First off, most men don't care about your job, or your money. So stop leading with that. Men care first and foremost about your looks, if you're friendly and cooperative, and physically in shape. They want to be with women who smile, laugh and make their lives more peaceful instead of being another competitor. Women who treat them with basic civility and respect. If they want children, they are looking for a childless woman who shows signs of being a good, dedicated mother.

I know a lot of men who have left the dating scene because they cannot seem to find women who tick even half these boxes anymore.

These other women have been snapped up because they have tick all of these boxes, or at least most of them. So what are you doing wrong, OP, and how can you change it? Think about what men want.

My exHusband certainly did. He had an income requirement for dating. A lot of men care about a woman's income if they are considering marriage.

It depends. Most men do not care. If you have one that does that is a red flag that there could be issues. Guys want fun, happy, smart, mother material and while looks are important, the range is extremely wide.

IME most men DO care. I have known very few men in my life who truly didn’t. And they didn’t tend to think much about the long term, which is a big red flag.

Depends on the guy. Most type A high earners, doctors, lawyers really couldn't care less. Now most end up marrying peers but not because they care what the women did -- it was because of where they met them -- mostly in school.

Well, MOST men I know care and the majority of my circle are high earners. I did go to law school and men there absolutely cared. It wasn’t just about them dating who was around them. They’d discuss it openly. And wanting to date med or MBA students from the same institution. I also know a lot of Wall Street traders and they care too. Could be generational maybe. I think older men didn’t care.

PP here. That could be it. I am older. Not a single peer I ever had cared what prospective spouse did. But you may be right, things have changed.

[Anonymous]

1. Never use the phrase “magic sauce”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP your problem is a vanishingly small percentage of men make over $150k, and they can date women younger and prettier than you. Unless you are in the right circles at the right age, you have to settle for some dork Fed or something.

??? I’m in my 30s and live in the DC metro area and I doubt I know a man here who makes less than $150k.

Do you mean you don’t DATE such men or you don’t know them? Is that even possible? Don’t you have a hair dresser, a friend who works in a restaurant, any friends who are teachers, any friends who are artists or musicians, any friends who are social workers or nurses etc etc etc?

No I mean I don’t know them at all. My hairdresser owns his own salon downtown. I don’t know what his exact salary is but he also lives in my neighborhood so I am sure he does well. I don’t have a friend who works in a restaurant but doesn’t own it. I don’t have any musician friends. Every nurse I know is a woman. The only teachers I know are at the higher ed level (professors or deans). Even my untenured prof friend makes over $150k.

And NONE of these men think they’re rich or entitled to pretty 20 somethings. Those that are single date women their own age and with similar looks.

No, he decidedly does not.

+1. There's no way.

+2 Not a chance. He does not.

I'm remarried and in my fifties, but even though my primary hairdresser owns her salon downtown too, I go to a second lovely hairdresser who does not own a salon. I have known many brilliant chefs in my life. And musicians, artists, writers, book editors, journalists, etc. And I've known several male nurses.

And Georgetown, Bethesda, CC, and NWDC are filled with teachers. Yes. some are married to wealthy men; others have family money.

As someone who works at a university and has probably been living in this area longer than you, I suggest that you expand your horizons. Gosh, maybe you should get out there and try to meet some writers and musicians. How about joining a running group or trying hot yoga or a Phillips membership? I feel so sorry for you, but you're your own worst enemy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Other girls who are also pretty and have good jobs keep getting their heart broken and either find low quality partners or wind up single."

First off, most men don't care about your job, or your money. So stop leading with that. Men care first and foremost about your looks, if you're friendly and cooperative, and physically in shape. They want to be with women who smile, laugh and make their lives more peaceful instead of being another competitor. Women who treat them with basic civility and respect. If they want children, they are looking for a childless woman who shows signs of being a good, dedicated mother.

I know a lot of men who have left the dating scene because they cannot seem to find women who tick even half these boxes anymore.

These other women have been snapped up because they have tick all of these boxes, or at least most of them. So what are you doing wrong, OP, and how can you change it? Think about what men want.

My exHusband certainly did. He had an income requirement for dating. A lot of men care about a woman's income if they are considering marriage.

It depends. Most men do not care. If you have one that does that is a red flag that there could be issues. Guys want fun, happy, smart, mother material and while looks are important, the range is extremely wide.

IME most men DO care. I have known very few men in my life who truly didn’t. And they didn’t tend to think much about the long term, which is a big red flag.

Depends on the guy. Most type A high earners, doctors, lawyers really couldn't care less. Now most end up marrying peers but not because they care what the women did -- it was because of where they met them -- mostly in school.

Well, MOST men I know care and the majority of my circle are high earners. I did go to law school and men there absolutely cared. It wasn’t just about them dating who was around them. They’d discuss it openly. And wanting to date med or MBA students from the same institution. I also know a lot of Wall Street traders and they care too. Could be generational maybe. I think older men didn’t care.

PP here. That could be it. I am older. Not a single peer I ever had cared what prospective spouse did. But you may be right, things have changed.

NP. It is a generational shift. It’s a status symbol for an UMC man to marry someone who has the educational credentials and move in the “right” circles. Instead of marrying the pretty hairdresser or nurse, it’s more socially gratifying to marry the pretty accomplished mba student, lawyer, or doctor. They can enjoy the money when they are DINKs, and when the kids come a status symbol for their highly accomplished wives to quit their jobs to be SAHMs.