Sexless-ness is an acceptable negative outcome from marriage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Another thing I find odd is when people say "we had kids and then never had sex again." I think in many cases men get frustrated when sex doesn't return to its previous frequency quickly enough after children come along. Men seem to think things can be back to "normal" within a year or less. This reflects the very different levels of parenting responsibility men and women have, especially for young kids.

I dare men in this situation to spend a week doing as much caregiving as their wives do and then see what happens to their sex drives. For me, it didn't come back until kids were in school. That was how long it took before I started to feel like I could be an independent person again. Before that, I was so tired all the time from work and childcare, and my kids just seemed to need so much from me physically and emotionally. Sex was a really difficult thing to add to that mix. Once a month, if that. But once the kids were in school? Back to normal. Maybe even better than normal. It wasn't a blip but it wasn't the end of our sex life either.

This is a bunch of bullshit. Ask any man who has multiple kids. Somehow, when she wants to get pregnant with kid #2/3/4, she doesn’t care about being “tired” and doing “more caregiving”. Nope, then it’s “get in here and f*ck me, buster!” In short, when she wants to have sex, she will find a way, and at other times she’s just making excuses.

This is funny because it’s true.

Wait, you mean when a woman wants to have sex, she does, and when she doesn't want to have sex, she.... doesn't? What voodoo is this? Ladies be crazy.

Wanting to have a kid is a valid reason to have sex. Being tired is a valid reason to not have sex. This isn't complicated.

After our first child was born, my husband thought our sex life would be the same as before, including the fact that before we had kids we regularly stayed up until midnight or later and still had sex before going to sleep. After we had a kid, it took him literally 2 years to figure out that if we didn't have sex before 9pm, it wasn't going to happen. It took him this long, despite me telling him, repeatedly, that I wanted to have sex I just couldn't stay up that late anymore because the kid was wearing me out.

Now we have sex at 8pm after the kid goes to bed, before we even eat dinner. But boy did it take him way too long to latch onto this idea. For months I almost felt as if he didn't want to have sex anymore because it was SO bizarre that he kept insisting on trying to have sex at like midnight when I was catatonic. I thought, what is going on? Can't he see I am literally asleep? What is going on?

Nope, turned out he did want to have sex. He's just really set in his ways, and doesn't always listen very well when I tell him things. Oh well, still love him.

+1 So well said

[Anonymous]

My husband married me knowing i have a very high sex drive. He knows I could not do without it even if something happened to him. We discussed all this prior to marriage 28 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP Here. Thanks for the responses. As a single woman, I meet divorced men from sexless marriages.

I meant to add that many are really emotionally damaged from being in sexless marriages.

I used to think that way before I was married. Poor guys! It’s not fair they were denied sex, sex is awesome!

Then I got married and I understand it now. It’s not that these women are secretly horny and denying their husbands as punishment, or that they consciously flip the off switch.

Sex is just as much of a biological drive for women as it is for men - but works the opposite as it does in men since the consequences (pregnancy) are much greater. For most of human history, women who got pregnant from men who were poor partners couldn’t care for the child alone, and the child would die. Several months or years of a woman’s fertile years would then be wasted, while a man could impregnate dozens of women in that time, and odds are one child would survive.

So the female brain looks for reasons NOT to have sex. It pays to be very picky about who you sleep with. Even though we now have birth control and resources for single moms, our biology is still the same.

Every single woman I know who lost interest in sex (including me) did so because their body recognized it wasn’t safe. Their husbands were poor fathers, emotionally unavailable (which makes the bonding aspect of sex painful), abusive, entitled, etc. Once they get out of that relationship and into a good one, sex drive comes roaring back.

When I dated divorced men after my own divorce, every time a man has mentioned his wife lost interest, I could immediately see why. Most left their kids to pursue their career or lifestyle (seriously....one guy abandoned his kids so he could live somewhere with snowboarding). Or they let most of the childcare fall on their wives and couldn’t even feed a toddler. Or they didn’t respect boundaries, or had a drinking problem, or couldn’t control their temper.

Unfortunately we’re socialized to believe that men are entitled to sex (every woman I know has put out on a date because she felt obliged, not because she wanted to). But we’re not taught that it’s a two way street, and that men need to meet women’s needs as well. If you talked to those men’s’ wives, you’d find that the men contributed very little to the health of their marriage.

FYI....I’d be very cautious dating a man who blames his ex wife for the end of their marriage, and especially any man who claims to be emotionally damaged. Healthy people recognize the role they played in ending their marriage and they address their emotional issues in therapy. It’s not your job to heal their wounds.

This whole comment is so accurate (especially the bolded part). Thanks to the author for articulating it so well.

You’re welcome

I remember feeling crazy because I didn’t want sex, and everything I read told me I was the problem (didn’t help that I started reading red pill/MRA stuff. Don’t do that). I went to doctors and therapists because something was obviously “wrong” with me for not wanting sex. I was basically told to relax, psych myself up beforehand, just do it and maybe I’ll get into it, etc.

Finally, someone said to me “I wouldn’t want to have sex under those circumstances, either” and it was like a weight being lifted from my shoulders. I learned that my body was functioning perfectly and actually protecting me, not betraying me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP Here. Thanks for the responses. As a single woman, I meet divorced men from sexless marriages.

I meant to add that many are really emotionally damaged from being in sexless marriages.

I used to think that way before I was married. Poor guys! It’s not fair they were denied sex, sex is awesome!

Then I got married and I understand it now. It’s not that these women are secretly horny and denying their husbands as punishment, or that they consciously flip the off switch.

Sex is just as much of a biological drive for women as it is for men - but works the opposite as it does in men since the consequences (pregnancy) are much greater. For most of human history, women who got pregnant from men who were poor partners couldn’t care for the child alone, and the child would die. Several months or years of a woman’s fertile years would then be wasted, while a man could impregnate dozens of women in that time, and odds are one child would survive.

So the female brain looks for reasons NOT to have sex. It pays to be very picky about who you sleep with. Even though we now have birth control and resources for single moms, our biology is still the same.

Every single woman I know who lost interest in sex (including me) did so because their body recognized it wasn’t safe. Their husbands were poor fathers, emotionally unavailable (which makes the bonding aspect of sex painful), abusive, entitled, etc. Once they get out of that relationship and into a good one, sex drive comes roaring back.

When I dated divorced men after my own divorce, every time a man has mentioned his wife lost interest, I could immediately see why. Most left their kids to pursue their career or lifestyle (seriously....one guy abandoned his kids so he could live somewhere with snowboarding). Or they let most of the childcare fall on their wives and couldn’t even feed a toddler. Or they didn’t respect boundaries, or had a drinking problem, or couldn’t control their temper.

Unfortunately we’re socialized to believe that men are entitled to sex (every woman I know has put out on a date because she felt obliged, not because she wanted to). But we’re not taught that it’s a two way street, and that men need to meet women’s needs as well. If you talked to those men’s’ wives, you’d find that the men contributed very little to the health of their marriage.

FYI....I’d be very cautious dating a man who blames his ex wife for the end of their marriage, and especially any man who claims to be emotionally damaged. Healthy people recognize the role they played in ending their marriage and they address their emotional issues in therapy. It’s not your job to heal their wounds.

This whole comment is so accurate (especially the bolded part). Thanks to the author for articulating it so well.

You’re welcome

I remember feeling crazy because I didn’t want sex, and everything I read told me I was the problem (didn’t help that I started reading red pill/MRA stuff. Don’t do that). I went to doctors and therapists because something was obviously “wrong” with me for not wanting sex. I was basically told to relax, psych myself up beforehand, just do it and maybe I’ll get into it, etc.

Finally, someone said to me “I wouldn’t want to have sex under those circumstances, either” and it was like a weight being lifted from my shoulders. I learned that my body was functioning perfectly and actually protecting me, not betraying me.

NP but this pressure on women to have sex whenever men want to be a "good wife" really irks me. There is so much pathologization of women who dont want to have frequent sex. People say she has a "low libido" as if it's a medical issue. But how about talking about men who have high libidos, and giving them pills for that? Women that dont want to have sex get questioned about whether they were sexually abused or traumatized, as if it's this horrible thing. How about questioning the men about why they constantly want to have sex?

it's because we literally set the norm for almost everyhting based on what men think. The norm for how often a woman wants to have sex would typially be much lower. And that's fine! There's nothing wrong with it at all! But because we base and center so much around men, women having a different libido gets ostracized and looked down upon, when in fact she's perfectly normal, in touch with herself and her body, and actually honoring her own sexuality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP Here. Thanks for the responses. As a single woman, I meet divorced men from sexless marriages.

I meant to add that many are really emotionally damaged from being in sexless marriages.

I used to think that way before I was married. Poor guys! It’s not fair they were denied sex, sex is awesome!

Then I got married and I understand it now. It’s not that these women are secretly horny and denying their husbands as punishment, or that they consciously flip the off switch.

Sex is just as much of a biological drive for women as it is for men - but works the opposite as it does in men since the consequences (pregnancy) are much greater. For most of human history, women who got pregnant from men who were poor partners couldn’t care for the child alone, and the child would die. Several months or years of a woman’s fertile years would then be wasted, while a man could impregnate dozens of women in that time, and odds are one child would survive.

So the female brain looks for reasons NOT to have sex. It pays to be very picky about who you sleep with. Even though we now have birth control and resources for single moms, our biology is still the same.

Every single woman I know who lost interest in sex (including me) did so because their body recognized it wasn’t safe. Their husbands were poor fathers, emotionally unavailable (which makes the bonding aspect of sex painful), abusive, entitled, etc. Once they get out of that relationship and into a good one, sex drive comes roaring back.

When I dated divorced men after my own divorce, every time a man has mentioned his wife lost interest, I could immediately see why. Most left their kids to pursue their career or lifestyle (seriously....one guy abandoned his kids so he could live somewhere with snowboarding). Or they let most of the childcare fall on their wives and couldn’t even feed a toddler. Or they didn’t respect boundaries, or had a drinking problem, or couldn’t control their temper.

Unfortunately we’re socialized to believe that men are entitled to sex (every woman I know has put out on a date because she felt obliged, not because she wanted to). But we’re not taught that it’s a two way street, and that men need to meet women’s needs as well. If you talked to those men’s’ wives, you’d find that the men contributed very little to the health of their marriage.

FYI....I’d be very cautious dating a man who blames his ex wife for the end of their marriage, and especially any man who claims to be emotionally damaged. Healthy people recognize the role they played in ending their marriage and they address their emotional issues in therapy. It’s not your job to heal their wounds.

This whole comment is so accurate (especially the bolded part). Thanks to the author for articulating it so well.

You’re welcome

I remember feeling crazy because I didn’t want sex, and everything I read told me I was the problem (didn’t help that I started reading red pill/MRA stuff. Don’t do that). I went to doctors and therapists because something was obviously “wrong” with me for not wanting sex. I was basically told to relax, psych myself up beforehand, just do it and maybe I’ll get into it, etc.

Finally, someone said to me “I wouldn’t want to have sex under those circumstances, either” and it was like a weight being lifted from my shoulders. I learned that my body was functioning perfectly and actually protecting me, not betraying me.

The part that jumped out at me in the bolded paragraph was definitely the last sentence. If you’re a guy and you enjoy sex, marriage may not be the right institution for you. Keep dating, be the new/exciting guy - don’t be the guy who’s devoted their life to a person.

[Anonymous]

^if you're an entitled guy looking for sex on demand, yes- please dont get married cause you think it wll be sex, sex, sex! The last thing a woman needs is that kind of infantile, childish, self centered entitlement directed her way. No wonder men's quality of life tends to go up during marriage whereas womens' go down!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The part that jumped out at me in the bolded paragraph was definitely the last sentence. If you’re a guy and you enjoy sex, marriage may not be the right institution for you. Keep dating, be the new/exciting guy - don’t be the guy who’s devoted their life to a person.

The point isn't to always be the exciting new guy. The point is to provide a safe and attractive context so your partner wants to have sex with you. Despite what the MRA sites tell you, most women don't need new partners to want sex. We just need partners that don't suck.

If you aren't interested in that, then yes, don't get married. But be honest with yourself - that you don't like doing any actual work in a relationship and just want women to cater to your needs with no expectation of reciprocity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The part that jumped out at me in the bolded paragraph was definitely the last sentence. If you’re a guy and you enjoy sex, marriage may not be the right institution for you. Keep dating, be the new/exciting guy - don’t be the guy who’s devoted their life to a person.

The point isn't to always be the exciting new guy. The point is to provide a safe and attractive context so your partner wants to have sex with you. Despite what the MRA sites tell you, most women don't need new partners to want sex. We just need partners that don't suck.

If you aren't interested in that, then yes, don't get married. But be honest with yourself - that you don't like doing any actual work in a relationship and just want women to cater to your needs with no expectation of reciprocity.

Yeah but he's angry at the premise that men should have to do any emotional work in a relationship, so he's essentially throwing a tantrum, picking up his toys and leaving! Best not to try to reason with him, just smile and wave as they walk away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The part that jumped out at me in the bolded paragraph was definitely the last sentence. If you’re a guy and you enjoy sex, marriage may not be the right institution for you. Keep dating, be the new/exciting guy - don’t be the guy who’s devoted their life to a person.

The point isn't to always be the exciting new guy. The point is to provide a safe and attractive context so your partner wants to have sex with you. Despite what the MRA sites tell you, most women don't need new partners to want sex. We just need partners that don't suck.

If you aren't interested in that, then yes, don't get married. But be honest with yourself - that you don't like doing any actual work in a relationship and just want women to cater to your needs with no expectation of reciprocity.

Completely understandable that women want to have sex with partners who don't suck. But realistically, there are a lot of reasons women end up not wanting sex that don't involve their partner being substandard in some way. A woman's sexual desire isn't a morality play where if a guy is good, his wife will want to have sex with him and where, if a guy is bad, his wife won't want to have sex. I think it's important to emphasize this so that husbands realize that his wife not wanting to have sex with him isn't necessarily a judgment on his worth as a person. That's where a lot of resentment comes from.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The part that jumped out at me in the bolded paragraph was definitely the last sentence. If you’re a guy and you enjoy sex, marriage may not be the right institution for you. Keep dating, be the new/exciting guy - don’t be the guy who’s devoted their life to a person.

The point isn't to always be the exciting new guy. The point is to provide a safe and attractive context so your partner wants to have sex with you. Despite what the MRA sites tell you, most women don't need new partners to want sex. We just need partners that don't suck.

If you aren't interested in that, then yes, don't get married. But be honest with yourself - that you don't like doing any actual work in a relationship and just want women to cater to your needs with no expectation of reciprocity.

Completely understandable that women want to have sex with partners who don't suck. But realistically, there are a lot of reasons women end up not wanting sex that don't involve their partner being substandard in some way. A woman's sexual desire isn't a morality play where if a guy is good, his wife will want to have sex with him and where, if a guy is bad, his wife won't want to have sex. I think it's important to emphasize this so that husbands realize that his wife not wanting to have sex with him isn't necessarily a judgment on his worth as a person. That's where a lot of resentment comes from.

This, this, this!

In the endless search for equality (a noble goal) we have perpetuated a myth that women are the same as men. Equal, yes. Same, no. Of course there are exceptions, but men on average want sex way, way more than women and women lose desire over time way, way faster than men. This is almost always going to result in a libido gap, and if you love each other, you compromise. If one of you doesn't want to compromise, that's where the infidelity or divorce happens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The part that jumped out at me in the bolded paragraph was definitely the last sentence. If you’re a guy and you enjoy sex, marriage may not be the right institution for you. Keep dating, be the new/exciting guy - don’t be the guy who’s devoted their life to a person.

The point isn't to always be the exciting new guy. The point is to provide a safe and attractive context so your partner wants to have sex with you. Despite what the MRA sites tell you, most women don't need new partners to want sex. We just need partners that don't suck.

If you aren't interested in that, then yes, don't get married. But be honest with yourself - that you don't like doing any actual work in a relationship and just want women to cater to your needs with no expectation of reciprocity.

Completely understandable that women want to have sex with partners who don't suck. But realistically, there are a lot of reasons women end up not wanting sex that don't involve their partner being substandard in some way. A woman's sexual desire isn't a morality play where if a guy is good, his wife will want to have sex with him and where, if a guy is bad, his wife won't want to have sex. I think it's important to emphasize this so that husbands realize that his wife not wanting to have sex with him isn't necessarily a judgment on his worth as a person. That's where a lot of resentment comes from.

This, this, this!

In the endless search for equality (a noble goal) we have perpetuated a myth that women are the same as men. Equal, yes. Same, no. Of course there are exceptions, but men on average want sex way, way more than women and women lose desire over time way, way faster than men. This is almost always going to result in a libido gap, and if you love each other, you compromise. If one of you doesn't want to compromise, that's where the infidelity or divorce happens.

I know that my husband would like to have sex more frequently then I do but after 34 years once a week and sometimes twice seems to be a healthy compromise. He will have sex at the drop of a hat but it takes me a lot longer to get in the mood so he has gotten really good about planting the idea early in the day. He is very good about letting me decide what we do as that always leads to a good time for both of us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The part that jumped out at me in the bolded paragraph was definitely the last sentence. If you’re a guy and you enjoy sex, marriage may not be the right institution for you. Keep dating, be the new/exciting guy - don’t be the guy who’s devoted their life to a person.

The point isn't to always be the exciting new guy. The point is to provide a safe and attractive context so your partner wants to have sex with you. Despite what the MRA sites tell you, most women don't need new partners to want sex. We just need partners that don't suck.

If you aren't interested in that, then yes, don't get married. But be honest with yourself - that you don't like doing any actual work in a relationship and just want women to cater to your needs with no expectation of reciprocity.

This is undoubtedly true. But this also seems to suggest that women who don't want to have sex frequently, in some way have a problem, even if the problem is a DH who sucks. But maybe some women just don't want to have sex.

I was chatting with an ex (who is currently single) who said she hadn't had sex in 7 years and did not miss it. She seemed happy otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Why do we have to define “normal” or “healthy” sexuality by what MEN want or expect? Women’s sexuality is different than men’s. Not abnormal, not unhealthy. Different. And that’s okay. As stated by a PP, loving couples meet in the middle. Which, yes, likely means the man has sex less likely than he’d prefer. Don’t like it, date other men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The part that jumped out at me in the bolded paragraph was definitely the last sentence. If you’re a guy and you enjoy sex, marriage may not be the right institution for you. Keep dating, be the new/exciting guy - don’t be the guy who’s devoted their life to a person.

The point isn't to always be the exciting new guy. The point is to provide a safe and attractive context so your partner wants to have sex with you. Despite what the MRA sites tell you, most women don't need new partners to want sex. We just need partners that don't suck.

If you aren't interested in that, then yes, don't get married. But be honest with yourself - that you don't like doing any actual work in a relationship and just want women to cater to your needs with no expectation of reciprocity.

Listen to what you just said. If the woman loses interest in sex it's because her partner sucks. Ok we believe you!!
Easy to fix: women, if you lose interest in sex, leave your sucky partner.
Men, if she lost interest in you, leave her and find a new woman that you are better matched with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do we have to define “normal” or “healthy” sexuality by what MEN want or expect? Women’s sexuality is different than men’s. Not abnormal, not unhealthy. Different. And that’s okay. As stated by a PP, loving couples meet in the middle. Which, yes, likely means the man has sex less likely than he’d prefer. Don’t like it, date other men.

Or don't expect monogamy if you are a low drive woman paired with a normal libido man.