ICE announcement

[Anonymous]

^^ excuse the typos. I was going to fast. Hopefully you get the point. Plans in flux, but even if colleges are letting students moved into dorms, the big ones are teaching few, or no, classes in person.

SLACs are the only schools that have plans to get most kids some in person classes. But, they are small and in isolated locations and often have no frats, which helps. And, it remains to be seen whether it works. And You can’t just transfer from, say, Michigan Engineering to a SLAC.

[Anonymous]

Also, for the community college question, I have a kid taking a summer class at NOVA— online, with a virtual lab section. NoVA is 100% online right now. Unsure how many, if any, in person classes they will offer in the fall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^ excuse the typos. I was going to fast. Hopefully you get the point. Plans in flux, but even if colleges are letting students moved into dorms, the big ones are teaching few, or no, classes in person.

SLACs are the only schools that have plans to get most kids some in person classes. But, they are small and in isolated locations and often have no frats, which helps. And, it remains to be seen whether it works. And You can’t just transfer from, say, Michigan Engineering to a SLAC.

My youngest kid’s very non-selective lac has elaborate plans for testing in the fall. We shall see.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There was also an article in the NY Times a couple weeks ago saying that flights to China were costing 3-4 times the usual cost which is already pretty high.
Many students cannot afford paying $7000-10,000 for one flight. I feel terrible for international students and their parents right now. What an absolutely horrible situation to be in.

Just checked on Google Flights and it's $2k for a one-way economy ticket from DC to Beijing flying out Thursday, via Hong Kong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many colleges are exclusively online?

I may have some school’s plans wrong. I’m not looking up every plan and plans are evolving. Bit I’ve been following because I have a college freshman.

Lots of Big State Us are teaching 100% online, but inviting some or all student back to campus. I think Michigan just announced this.

Many state Us are putting large electives on line, but having recitations in person. Purdue is doing this.

Many State Us are only letting limited students who must do hands on meet in person— sciences labs and hands on fine arts. If you major in politics, you will likely be entirely online in these schools. But many of the students at these school can live online. can live on campus.

At the flagship school for RI, you only get housing if you are OOS. In state is on their own for housing. Mix of on online and in person.

Harvard is letting freshmen come on campus in the fall and Seniors in the spring, but all classes on line. I think Princeton is also all online, tuition discount given. Yale is looking at getting everyone on in person.

Last I saw, UCs are moving to all classes online except specialties like nursing practicals and some senior lab students. The parallel CA State U system is online, most kids not welcome to live on campus.

SLACs are trying hard to get kids back and in live classes, but getting creative to get kids into single room and planning to test aggressively.. But some are only inviting a limited number of kids back (e.g. freshmen, seniors and lab sciences). Some are only inviting one class of kids at a time for short periods, like Grinnell. Some, like Oberlin, are moving to a trimester system (Freshmen and seniors in fall and spring. Sophomores in fall And summer. Juniors in spring and summer), single rooms, lots of testing and 90% of classes in person or hybrid.

Since SLACs are such a small percent of students, most students will learn 100% online, even if they live on campus. Some will get a class or two in person. A few— mostly in SLACs, are scheduled to get at least one semester with the majority of teaching online. But that could change at anytime, as it did in the spring. What then, deport students partway through.

It runs the gamit. And colleges in FL, AZ, etc may be saying everyone can come back, but that may not be realistic.

But what happen if and when a student who finds a college with in person classes has to go online because COVID spikes? The kid gets deported mid semester?

Single rooms (so no roommates), online classes, grab and go food, and no activities. Sounds like a joy! Totally willing to pay $25-75k/yr for that!

I’m sending a freshman to one of these, and it gave me pause. We discussed a gap year. It’s not what I wanted for him. But here we are, looking at only imperfect options. And developmentally, he’s ready to go to college. Most of his peers are going to college. There are no good gap year programs. We are choosing to keep him on track, even if it’s less than ideal. Because I think stagnating in my basement for a year is a bigger risk to his happiness and development than attending school with a lot of restrictions. And least he will meet new people, take the classes he wants and live away from home.

His SLAC is teaching most classes in person because 80% of classes have 20 kids or less. And is looking at podding by freshmen seminar. All 15 kids from the same seminar on the same hall, allowed to eat together, allowed to socialize with fewer restrictions (ie, in dorm rooms). If one kid gets sick, you know who the primary contacts are. They can hopefully batch test pods. Since freshman seminars are pretty specific, hopefully kids with similar interest end up together.

But yeah— it’s not perfect. Neither is play Ms. Haversham in my basement. Lots of people choosing between two bad options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many colleges are exclusively online?

I may have some school’s plans wrong. I’m not looking up every plan and plans are evolving. Bit I’ve been following because I have a college freshman.

Lots of Big State Us are teaching 100% online, but inviting some or all student back to campus. I think Michigan just announced this.

Many state Us are putting large electives on line, but having recitations in person. Purdue is doing this.

Many State Us are only letting limited students who must do hands on meet in person— sciences labs and hands on fine arts. If you major in politics, you will likely be entirely online in these schools. But many of the students at these school can live online. can live on campus.

At the flagship school for RI, you only get housing if you are OOS. In state is on their own for housing. Mix of on online and in person.

Harvard is letting freshmen come on campus in the fall and Seniors in the spring, but all classes on line. I think Princeton is also all online, tuition discount given. Yale is looking at getting everyone on in person.

Last I saw, UCs are moving to all classes online except specialties like nursing practicals and some senior lab students. The parallel CA State U system is online, most kids not welcome to live on campus.

SLACs are trying hard to get kids back and in live classes, but getting creative to get kids into single room and planning to test aggressively.. But some are only inviting a limited number of kids back (e.g. freshmen, seniors and lab sciences). Some are only inviting one class of kids at a time for short periods, like Grinnell. Some, like Oberlin, are moving to a trimester system (Freshmen and seniors in fall and spring. Sophomores in fall And summer. Juniors in spring and summer), single rooms, lots of testing and 90% of classes in person or hybrid.

Since SLACs are such a small percent of students, most students will learn 100% online, even if they live on campus. Some will get a class or two in person. A few— mostly in SLACs, are scheduled to get at least one semester with the majority of teaching online. But that could change at anytime, as it did in the spring. What then, deport students partway through.

It runs the gamit. And colleges in FL, AZ, etc may be saying everyone can come back, but that may not be realistic.

But what happen if and when a student who finds a college with in person classes has to go online because COVID spikes? The kid gets deported mid semester?

Single rooms (so no roommates), online classes, grab and go food, and no activities. Sounds like a joy! Totally willing to pay $25-75k/yr for that!

I’m sending a freshman to one of these, and it gave me pause. We discussed a gap year. It’s not what I wanted for him. But here we are, looking at only imperfect options. And developmentally, he’s ready to go to college. Most of his peers are going to college. There are no good gap year programs. We are choosing to keep him on track, even if it’s less than ideal. Because I think stagnating in my basement for a year is a bigger risk to his happiness and development than attending school with a lot of restrictions. And least he will meet new people, take the classes he wants and live away from home.

His SLAC is teaching most classes in person because 80% of classes have 20 kids or less. And is looking at podding by freshmen seminar. All 15 kids from the same seminar on the same hall, allowed to eat together, allowed to socialize with fewer restrictions (ie, in dorm rooms). If one kid gets sick, you know who the primary contacts are. They can hopefully batch test pods. Since freshman seminars are pretty specific, hopefully kids with similar interest end up together.

But yeah— it’s not perfect. Neither is play Ms. Haversham in my basement. Lots of people choosing between two bad options.

I’m the pp. My kid is going to college this fall too. I just feel robbed (and so does dc).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, we now think it’s a good idea to force a few hundred thousand international students who are now in the US, a current covid hot spot, onto airplanes to scatter their germs around the world?

There may not even be flights to their home countries. What do they do then?

DP. Eventually we'll see some of those students end up arrested by ICE and put into detention facilities where there is spread of the virus. Like the many other immigrants in those facilities whose plight we seem no longer to recognize. I can only pray that their stories get out and are highly publicized everywhere.

+1. Those students who can’t be immediately deported to their home countries will be detained indefinitely by ICE. The virus will continue to spread in those detention facilities, and some students will die. It is inevitable.

If you support this policy, you also support the utterly avoidable deaths of those students. You can’t separate the two.

Oh sweet Jesus. Stop your overdramatic speculation. They are not going to detain, jail, and mark for death all students who have no flights available as a first line response. There are flights out of the country.

The New Zealand government started limiting flights into NZ yesterday, so kiwi students couldn't get home even if they were told to go. I imagine it is the same thing with other countries. A lot of Australians got stuck in Chile for a while.

[Anonymous]

Here is the actual information from ICE.

https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/sevp-modifies-temporary-exemptions-nonimmigrant-students-taking-online-courses-during

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have they provided *any* rationale for this, other than just being dickwipes?

Yes -- the whole point of the F-1 visa is to come to the US to study in a university. If you can no longer study _in_ the university, then there is no need to come to the US.

Nothing in the F-1 visa rules say you have to be "in a university" it says you have to be a full time student. You also don't have to be "in a university" there are F-1 visa's for Elementary/high school.

There are also exceptions for health, etc.

Yeah and studying online is studying in the University.

But the prior ICE rules have stipulated that international students on F-1 visas can take no more than one class online per semester when in residence in the United States. That provision was waived in the spring semester, and universities were hoping for similar guidance for the fall. A Chinese student could take a course load of all online Harvard classes in China but not in Cambridge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was also an article in the NY Times a couple weeks ago saying that flights to China were costing 3-4 times the usual cost which is already pretty high.
Many students cannot afford paying $7000-10,000 for one flight. I feel terrible for international students and their parents right now. What an absolutely horrible situation to be in.

Just checked on Google Flights and it's $2k for a one-way economy ticket from DC to Beijing flying out Thursday, via Hong Kong.

I saw the same article. I think prices in April and May were crazy. At the height of the panic and China was allowing very few flights in

[Anonymous]

I know everyone is blaming this on the president being racist, but is there any chance that this visa change is coming alongside the urging of the cdc and Trump that schools need to open this fall? Could this be part of an attempt to get colleges to open in order to retain their international students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know everyone is blaming this on the president being racist, but is there any chance that this visa change is coming alongside the urging of the cdc and Trump that schools need to open this fall? Could this be part of an attempt to get colleges to open in order to retain their international students.

It sounds like an awful way to do it. Why mess with these students?
It is incredibly disruptive to their education, their finances etc.
lots of countries are not allowing flights from the US
If they leave and seek a visa to re enter if in person classes resume they might find that the US consulate is closed or backlogged or hard to get to if there are travel restrictions in their home country
They might not have full or reliable internet access in their home countries

Why not just allow them to stay as long as they are enrolled in classes at a US university.
Such pointless cruelty

[Anonymous]

The whole point of this is to destroy the American system of higher education and the economies, particularly, of the small towns where many of the smaller schools and international-heavy state schools reside.

Yes, Donald wants everyone moving back to school full time and in-person, but that is because he doesn't care of about the health and well being of the students, staff or faculty of these schools.

Yes, it doesn't make sense, unless you assume Donald is a traitor to the USA, then it makes perfect sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know everyone is blaming this on the president being racist, but is there any chance that this visa change is coming alongside the urging of the cdc and Trump that schools need to open this fall? Could this be part of an attempt to get colleges to open in order to retain their international students.

It sounds like an awful way to do it. Why mess with these students?
It is incredibly disruptive to their education, their finances etc.
lots of countries are not allowing flights from the US
If they leave and seek a visa to re enter if in person classes resume they might find that the US consulate is closed or backlogged or hard to get to if there are travel restrictions in their home country
They might not have full or reliable internet access in their home countries

Why not just allow them to stay as long as they are enrolled in classes at a US university.
Such pointless cruelty

Colleges have not yet announced their final plans. I assume most will work to accommodate students and ensure they can stay.

[Anonymous]

Most of the international students are not here yet for the new school year. In March the two universities I have personal knowledge of did everything possible to send the international students home safely