Donor eggs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - previous PPs should not be so angry. I though we could have an open-minded discussion about a touchy subject.

Actually it's increasingly looking like you came here just to stir the pot.

No one is forcing you to read and respond.

Ooh, struck a nerve?

[Anonymous]

I Was told at 35/36 donor eggs were the way to go because of severe DOR. I couldn’t do it for all of the reasons mentioned by OP. Luckily changed RE’s and protocols and gpt my DD at 37. We have 10 bio embryos on ice untested - we start our first FET for #2 next month and if none of them work out we’re done. My DD is all my husband at 14 months (looks and personality) but I know she’s mine - i couldn’t have forseen that and imagine that if she had been via donor egg it would be truly hard for me. Just being honest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I Was told at 35/36 donor eggs were the way to go because of severe DOR. I couldn’t do it for all of the reasons mentioned by OP. Luckily changed RE’s and protocols and gpt my DD at 37. We have 10 bio embryos on ice untested - we start our first FET for #2 next month and if none of them work out we’re done. My DD is all my husband at 14 months (looks and personality) but I know she’s mine - i couldn’t have forseen that and imagine that if she had been via donor egg it would be truly hard for me. Just being honest.

I think most women feel the exact same way as you but don’t want to admit it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, how did you have your children? Have you ever dealt with infertility?

OP here - no children yet. Embryos are frozen. I am dealing with immune issues. DE have been ruled out.

Why did you add that “DE have been ruled out”? You are truly strange.

OP here - because if I do not succeed with my own eggs I will not do DE eggs, which are relentlessly pushed on women 40 and over.

As it happens, DE wasn't relentlessly pushed on me at all. Because I got pregnant so easily, after the fifth loss, most doctors told me IVF would be pointless (elevated fsh and dor), but maybe if I kept getting pregnant I would get lucky. SG certainly pushed DE, but I would never cycle with them because they refuse semi-open donors. It was a long road for me to decide to use a donor, but it struck me that I would likely live in grief and mourning even more babies than the 8 I lost if I didn't do something different. That something was take my own genetics out of the equation.

How high was your FSH and what was your AFC?

After my second m/c (I was 38) my fsh was 8 and my afc was about 14. But then after my third, at 39, my fsh spiked to 18. I don't remember my afc. I think it was less than 10 with one ovary significantly higher. At that point SG did push DE on me saying my high fsh meant I would never carry a healthy baby. Well, then I got pregnant again, with a genetically healthy baby we lost to random birth defects in the second trimester that weren't ama-related at all. They were associated with mthfr (I am homozygous). I was instructed to just keep trying naturally - by now I was 40- and had three more losses.....

That’s really tough, PP. I feel for you. Did anyone give you an explanation why your FSH more than doubled in only one year? Why do you think MTHFR is responsible for it? Thanks a lot. I am also homo for MTHFR and everyone I talked to says it has no effect on eggs but who knows.

No explanation. I recall that My fsh after my first loss at 37 was 3.4. I got The usual dismissal from drs re:mthfr. But my daughter was lost to defects similar to NTDs, which are linked to folate deficiency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think many people who don’t “get” de are childless. As a parent of conceived naturally, I can see how little of being a parent is dependent on a genetic relationship.

Actually, I totally disagree. Children can be frustrating and exhausting, especially if one is dealing with special needs. With your own genetic child, the love and connection is there automatically. If raising a difficult child that is not your own, I can see how it would be much harder to deal with.

Np here. I actually was more open to DE after having a child genetically my own. They are their own little people, with thoughts, feelings and personalities unto themselves. I realized the genetics were less important, not more, once I had my own kid. I did go on to have a second on our own, but truthfully her personality is so different from mine she could have been from another mother. I'm told she looks like me, but again, she's her own person with her own way of doing things.

If you are not comfortable with the idea of DE, you have a choice, you don't have to do it. I do agree some doctors gloss over the emotional component of the decision, much like many people ignore the real difficulties involved when they say "just adopt". There are not enough children looking for homes as there are families looking to adopt. It's expensive and often heartbreaking. Truthfully I think many RE's push IVF without digging in to find the cause of someone's infertility. Thyroid and immune issues in particular are often not well treated before someone is told they need IVF.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think many people who don’t “get” de are childless. As a parent of conceived naturally, I can see how little of being a parent is dependent on a genetic relationship.

Actually, I totally disagree. Children can be frustrating and exhausting, especially if one is dealing with special needs. With your own genetic child, the love and connection is there automatically. If raising a difficult child that is not your own, I can see how it would be much harder to deal with.

Np here. I actually was more open to DE after having a child genetically my own. They are their own little people, with thoughts, feelings and personalities unto themselves. I realized the genetics were less important, not more, once I had my own kid. I did go on to have a second on our own, but truthfully her personality is so different from mine she could have been from another mother. I'm told she looks like me, but again, she's her own person with her own way of doing things.

If you are not comfortable with the idea of DE, you have a choice, you don't have to do it. I do agree some doctors gloss over the emotional component of the decision, much like many people ignore the real difficulties involved when they say "just adopt". There are not enough children looking for homes as there are families looking to adopt. It's expensive and often heartbreaking. Truthfully I think many RE's push IVF without digging in to find the cause of someone's infertility. Thyroid and immune issues in particular are often not well treated before someone is told they need IVF.

children are their own little peole precisely because they have their own genes and come to the world already formed to a great extent. what your example suggests that child's genes are not entirely predictable from their parent's genes. we know thy are not - beautiful actresses have homely children all the time etc. but there have been loads of research in this area and parents' genes matter a great deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I Was told at 35/36 donor eggs were the way to go because of severe DOR. I couldn’t do it for all of the reasons mentioned by OP. Luckily changed RE’s and protocols and gpt my DD at 37. We have 10 bio embryos on ice untested - we start our first FET for #2 next month and if none of them work out we’re done. My DD is all my husband at 14 months (looks and personality) but I know she’s mine - i couldn’t have forseen that and imagine that if she had been via donor egg it would be truly hard for me. Just being honest.

I think most women feel the exact same way as you but don’t want to admit it.

We have an 8 month old from OE IVF. As I'm already 43, my doctor says we will need DE for a sibling. I intend to make a Hail Mary pass at OE IVF this summer and if it doesn't work we will be done. I have no issues at all with DE or sperm donation (which is the exact same thing), but it's not for me after having my own genetic child.

[Anonymous]

OP, since you have embryos frozen maybe you should wait for that outcome before making sweeping statements about DE/ adoption.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think many people who don’t “get” de are childless. As a parent of conceived naturally, I can see how little of being a parent is dependent on a genetic relationship.

Actually, I totally disagree. Children can be frustrating and exhausting, especially if one is dealing with special needs. With your own genetic child, the love and connection is there automatically. If raising a difficult child that is not your own, I can see how it would be much harder to deal with.

Np here. I actually was more open to DE after having a child genetically my own. They are their own little people, with thoughts, feelings and personalities unto themselves. I realized the genetics were less important, not more, once I had my own kid. I did go on to have a second on our own, but truthfully her personality is so different from mine she could have been from another mother. I'm told she looks like me, but again, she's her own person with her own way of doing things.

If you are not comfortable with the idea of DE, you have a choice, you don't have to do it. I do agree some doctors gloss over the emotional component of the decision, much like many people ignore the real difficulties involved when they say "just adopt". There are not enough children looking for homes as there are families looking to adopt. It's expensive and often heartbreaking. Truthfully I think many RE's push IVF without digging in to find the cause of someone's infertility. Thyroid and immune issues in particular are often not well treated before someone is told they need IVF.

children are their own little peole precisely because they have their own genes and come to the world already formed to a great extent. what your example suggests that child's genes are not entirely predictable from their parent's genes. we know thy are not - beautiful actresses have homely children all the time etc. but there have been loads of research in this area and parents' genes matter a great deal.

Well, duh, "genes matter" -- life depends on them. Nobody's saying genes don't matter. Some people here are simply saying that sharing a genetic connection with your child isn't critical to forming the parent-child bond. I happen to agree. OP, you come off as sounding very self-righteous and with a grandiose sense of self, but you're also making very simple-minded points. We hear you, some people agree with you, others disagree, it's probably time to just move on and live in peace with the choices YOU make.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think many people who don’t “get” de are childless. As a parent of conceived naturally, I can see how little of being a parent is dependent on a genetic relationship.

Actually, I totally disagree. Children can be frustrating and exhausting, especially if one is dealing with special needs. With your own genetic child, the love and connection is there automatically. If raising a difficult child that is not your own, I can see how it would be much harder to deal with.

Np here. I actually was more open to DE after having a child genetically my own. They are their own little people, with thoughts, feelings and personalities unto themselves. I realized the genetics were less important, not more, once I had my own kid. I did go on to have a second on our own, but truthfully her personality is so different from mine she could have been from another mother. I'm told she looks like me, but again, she's her own person with her own way of doing things.

If you are not comfortable with the idea of DE, you have a choice, you don't have to do it. I do agree some doctors gloss over the emotional component of the decision, much like many people ignore the real difficulties involved when they say "just adopt". There are not enough children looking for homes as there are families looking to adopt. It's expensive and often heartbreaking. Truthfully I think many RE's push IVF without digging in to find the cause of someone's infertility. Thyroid and immune issues in particular are often not well treated before someone is told they need IVF.

children are their own little peole precisely because they have their own genes and come to the world already formed to a great extent. what your example suggests that child's genes are not entirely predictable from their parent's genes. we know thy are not - beautiful actresses have homely children all the time etc. but there have been loads of research in this area and parents' genes matter a great deal.

I feel sad for you given your limited ability to love — you must have a grinch size heart. Your belief in your own genetic superiority is truly disgusting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think many people who don’t “get” de are childless. As a parent of conceived naturally, I can see how little of being a parent is dependent on a genetic relationship.

Actually, I totally disagree. Children can be frustrating and exhausting, especially if one is dealing with special needs. With your own genetic child, the love and connection is there automatically. If raising a difficult child that is not your own, I can see how it would be much harder to deal with.

Np here. I actually was more open to DE after having a child genetically my own. They are their own little people, with thoughts, feelings and personalities unto themselves. I realized the genetics were less important, not more, once I had my own kid. I did go on to have a second on our own, but truthfully her personality is so different from mine she could have been from another mother. I'm told she looks like me, but again, she's her own person with her own way of doing things.

If you are not comfortable with the idea of DE, you have a choice, you don't have to do it. I do agree some doctors gloss over the emotional component of the decision, much like many people ignore the real difficulties involved when they say "just adopt". There are not enough children looking for homes as there are families looking to adopt. It's expensive and often heartbreaking. Truthfully I think many RE's push IVF without digging in to find the cause of someone's infertility. Thyroid and immune issues in particular are often not well treated before someone is told they need IVF.

children are their own little peole precisely because they have their own genes and come to the world already formed to a great extent. what your example suggests that child's genes are not entirely predictable from their parent's genes. we know thy are not - beautiful actresses have homely children all the time etc. but there have been loads of research in this area and parents' genes matter a great deal.

Well, duh, "genes matter" -- life depends on them. Nobody's saying genes don't matter. Some people here are simply saying that sharing a genetic connection with your child isn't critical to forming the parent-child bond. I happen to agree. OP, you come off as sounding very self-righteous and with a grandiose sense of self, but you're also making very simple-minded points. We hear you, some people agree with you, others disagree, it's probably time to just move on and live in peace with the choices YOU make.

first of all, this is not OP, it's a different poster entirely. i happen to have kids and they are very much like me. a day doesn't pass without me noticing some insane similarity in the way they think about the world, people that is very similar to mine yet something they had no way of learning from me.

that said, there two separate issues here. one is a parent-child bond and the other one is controlling the genes that come from the mothetZ

as for the former, I don't doubt the bond, but at the same time, this is almost nobody's first choice. human psychology is such that peole adapt to whatever they are given. but that doesn't mean some outcomes are not more desirable than others.

as for the latter, trait inheritance has been studied for 50+ years. There is a strong correlation between parents and their bio offspring. this is just a fact. it's not 100% by any means (there are two parents to begin with and it's more complicate than that) but it remains the best way to control your child genes as much as you can control them at all.

now, of course, some of you might not like yourselves all that imuch so this is not much of a concern. some of us are very happy with the genetic ticket we were given and want to pass it along. it is for their own benefit, frankly, to the extent that that benefit can be controlled at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think many people who don’t “get” de are childless. As a parent of conceived naturally, I can see how little of being a parent is dependent on a genetic relationship.

Actually, I totally disagree. Children can be frustrating and exhausting, especially if one is dealing with special needs. With your own genetic child, the love and connection is there automatically. If raising a difficult child that is not your own, I can see how it would be much harder to deal with.

Np here. I actually was more open to DE after having a child genetically my own. They are their own little people, with thoughts, feelings and personalities unto themselves. I realized the genetics were less important, not more, once I had my own kid. I did go on to have a second on our own, but truthfully her personality is so different from mine she could have been from another mother. I'm told she looks like me, but again, she's her own person with her own way of doing things.

If you are not comfortable with the idea of DE, you have a choice, you don't have to do it. I do agree some doctors gloss over the emotional component of the decision, much like many people ignore the real difficulties involved when they say "just adopt". There are not enough children looking for homes as there are families looking to adopt. It's expensive and often heartbreaking. Truthfully I think many RE's push IVF without digging in to find the cause of someone's infertility. Thyroid and immune issues in particular are often not well treated before someone is told they need IVF.

children are their own little peole precisely because they have their own genes and come to the world already formed to a great extent. what your example suggests that child's genes are not entirely predictable from their parent's genes. we know thy are not - beautiful actresses have homely children all the time etc. but there have been loads of research in this area and parents' genes matter a great deal.

I feel sad for you given your limited ability to love — you must have a grinch size heart. Your belief in your own genetic superiority is truly disgusting.

you sound jelalous. you don't have to hate yourself you know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think many people who don’t “get” de are childless. As a parent of conceived naturally, I can see how little of being a parent is dependent on a genetic relationship.

Actually, I totally disagree. Children can be frustrating and exhausting, especially if one is dealing with special needs. With your own genetic child, the love and connection is there automatically. If raising a difficult child that is not your own, I can see how it would be much harder to deal with.

Np here. I actually was more open to DE after having a child genetically my own. They are their own little people, with thoughts, feelings and personalities unto themselves. I realized the genetics were less important, not more, once I had my own kid. I did go on to have a second on our own, but truthfully her personality is so different from mine she could have been from another mother. I'm told she looks like me, but again, she's her own person with her own way of doing things.

If you are not comfortable with the idea of DE, you have a choice, you don't have to do it. I do agree some doctors gloss over the emotional component of the decision, much like many people ignore the real difficulties involved when they say "just adopt". There are not enough children looking for homes as there are families looking to adopt. It's expensive and often heartbreaking. Truthfully I think many RE's push IVF without digging in to find the cause of someone's infertility. Thyroid and immune issues in particular are often not well treated before someone is told they need IVF.

children are their own little peole precisely because they have their own genes and come to the world already formed to a great extent. what your example suggests that child's genes are not entirely predictable from their parent's genes. we know thy are not - beautiful actresses have homely children all the time etc. but there have been loads of research in this area and parents' genes matter a great deal.

Well, duh, "genes matter" -- life depends on them. Nobody's saying genes don't matter. Some people here are simply saying that sharing a genetic connection with your child isn't critical to forming the parent-child bond. I happen to agree. OP, you come off as sounding very self-righteous and with a grandiose sense of self, but you're also making very simple-minded points. We hear you, some people agree with you, others disagree, it's probably time to just move on and live in peace with the choices YOU make.

first of all, this is not OP, it's a different poster entirely. i happen to have kids and they are very much like me. a day doesn't pass without me noticing some insane similarity in the way they think about the world, people that is very similar to mine yet something they had no way of learning from me.

that said, there two separate issues here. one is a parent-child bond and the other one is controlling the genes that come from the mothetZ

as for the former, I don't doubt the bond, but at the same time, this is almost nobody's first choice. human psychology is such that peole adapt to whatever they are given. but that doesn't mean some outcomes are not more desirable than others.

as for the latter, trait inheritance has been studied for 50+ years. There is a strong correlation between parents and their bio offspring. this is just a fact. it's not 100% by any means (there are two parents to begin with and it's more complicate than that) but it remains the best way to control your child genes as much as you can control them at all.

now, of course, some of you might not like yourselves all that imuch so this is not much of a concern. some of us are very happy with the genetic ticket we were given and want to pass it along. it is for their own benefit, frankly, to the extent that that benefit can be controlled at all.

Self-replication - while certainly a biological reality - is not really the driving force behind wanting to love and nurture a child. I happen to love myself and feel pretty proud of my accomplishments (I'm a former professional ballet dancer who graduated phi beta kappa and most importantly - has been lucky enough to raise one incredible child). First and foremost though, I want to mother again. Something is clearly wrong with my fantastic genes, since I have lost 8 babies (so far....). If taking my seemingly amazing, but apparently wonky genetics out of the reproductive equation allows me to love and raise another baby, so be it. I am currently 37 weeks pregnant with a baby that I pray makes it into t he world alive, and after so much heartbreak, I am prepared for the worst. But if epigenetics allows my genes to impact the genes of a baby whose cells came from donated genetics to thrive, so be it. Science also tells me that I carry with me in my blood the DNA of the many babies I have lost. They will also be with me, and the daughter I am lucky to be carrying. A daughter, I have mentioned earlier, who will have full access to her biological history, because she deserves it. I pray daily for my one living OE child that she hasn't inherited a future of miscarriages and dead babies, along with my intelligence and artistic abilities.

[Anonymous]

OP here - there is one more point I wish to make about DEs. Note that I already made the first two points:

1. DE practice is cruel to children if it is not an open donation and if a donor does not agree to contact. Withholding any information from DE child is cruel. Lying to a child about it is unimaginable.

2. This is just for me personally: I would not carry a child of another women and my husband. I would feel like a surrogate for them. Please don't hate me for being honest.

3. Infertility clinics disgust me. They earn unimaginable amounts of money off people desperate for children. Now, don't get me wrong, I am all for business and making money. But prices are outrageous, many times thousands percentages over the cost of labor, equipment, supplies, utilities, leases, rentals, and other operating costs. But I guess that fits well within the outrageous cost structure of the US health care system. And since ART is considered a "luxury" prices are even more outrageous. Drug prices for IVF go hand in hand with that trend, exceeding average prices in the world by thousands of percents.
But this is not the worst part. Overall, IVF clinics are not in the business of making scientific breakthroughs to make IVF less costly financially, emotionally, and physically. They all sell what they agree to be "the current best practice". There is no effort to actually help patient, there is a huge effort to increase the bottom line. Many executives of infertility clinics are multi-millionaires and even REs live in luxury, driving Porsche, living in $2.5 million houses in Bethesda, having separate entrance for catering staff, buying luxury vacations. You get the picture. That is just not a picture of people who are in business to help people. Real breakthroughs happen in scientific labs like that one at MIT, usually by students living on student assistant salaries and student loans. IVF industry is quick to buy licenses on such inventions and sell them at a really high price. By now, IVF industry could have figured out better protocols for DOR patients and older patients, as well as other more complicated reproductive scenarios, but that is not in their business interest. With combined number of infertility clinics in the US alone, their purported "expertise", and number of years they have been in the business it should be natural to come up with more advanced methods. But because infertility is increasing among younger population they can just use old protocols to earn more money. Why reinvent the wheel when the current state serves them well.
They do not invest any extended effort into DOR patients and older women by customizing protocols and trying again. It simply doesn't pay off. DEs are a perfect business solution for increasing success rates while using age-old IVF methods on young and reproductively healthy donors. They only care to get that success rates through conception/live births with little regard for financial, ethical, moral, and emotional implications of those pregnancies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I Was told at 35/36 donor eggs were the way to go because of severe DOR. I couldn’t do it for all of the reasons mentioned by OP. Luckily changed RE’s and protocols and gpt my DD at 37. We have 10 bio embryos on ice untested - we start our first FET for #2 next month and if none of them work out we’re done. My DD is all my husband at 14 months (looks and personality) but I know she’s mine - i couldn’t have forseen that and imagine that if she had been via donor egg it would be truly hard for me. Just being honest.

I think most women feel the exact same way as you but don’t want to admit it.

No one here is saying DE is their primary choice and that making the decision to create a family using a donated egg (or sperm) is easy. It isn’t and good for you for pursuing a second opinion. Most couples who have chosen to use donor eggs/donor sperm have been through hell and back already, so this provides them an option for another chance—it isn’t a guarantee that after 10’s of thousands of dollars are paid that you will finally have success.

As for OP, I can’t read your last post. I just can’t with you. I’m guessing you think gay and lesbian couples have no morals for pursuing their dreams of a family either. You are truly a dispicable, disgusting, hateful, cruel, narrow minded, miserable excuse for a human being.

/done