Donor eggs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp here. Egg donor children are biologically your children if you carry them, they are not genetically but they are biologically. The carrier will turn on the genetic markers though so the child technically ends up with 3 people’s DNA the sperm carrier, the egg donor and the surrogate.

Rationalizing it that way is definitely easier but we all know that's simply not the truth.

You can’t rationalize science, pal.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3259508/Scientists-hail-amazing-discovery-s-revealed-infertile-mothers-use-donor-eggs-pass-DNA-children.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp here. Egg donor children are biologically your children if you carry them, they are not genetically but they are biologically. The carrier will turn on the genetic markers though so the child technically ends up with 3 people’s DNA the sperm carrier, the egg donor and the surrogate.

Rationalizing it that way is definitely easier but we all know that's simply not the truth.

You can’t rationalize science, pal.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3259508/Scientists-hail-amazing-discovery-s-revealed-infertile-mothers-use-donor-eggs-pass-DNA-children.html

Right, because a British tabloid is an authoritative source of scientific information.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp here. Egg donor children are biologically your children if you carry them, they are not genetically but they are biologically. The carrier will turn on the genetic markers though so the child technically ends up with 3 people’s DNA the sperm carrier, the egg donor and the surrogate.

Rationalizing it that way is definitely easier but we all know that's simply not the truth.

You can’t rationalize science, pal.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3259508/Scientists-hail-amazing-discovery-s-revealed-infertile-mothers-use-donor-eggs-pass-DNA-children.html

Right, because a British tabloid is an authoritative source of scientific information.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here - there is one more point I wish to make about DEs. Note that I already made the first two points:

1. DE practice is cruel to children if it is not an open donation and if a donor does not agree to contact. Withholding any information from DE child is cruel. Lying to a child about it is unimaginable.

2. This is just for me personally: I would not carry a child of another women and my husband. I would feel like a surrogate for them. Please don't hate me for being honest.

3. Infertility clinics disgust me. They earn unimaginable amounts of money off people desperate for children. Now, don't get me wrong, I am all for business and making money. But prices are outrageous, many times thousands percentages over the cost of labor, equipment, supplies, utilities, leases, rentals, and other operating costs. But I guess that fits well within the outrageous cost structure of the US health care system. And since ART is considered a "luxury" prices are even more outrageous. Drug prices for IVF go hand in hand with that trend, exceeding average prices in the world by thousands of percents.
But this is not the worst part. Overall, IVF clinics are not in the business of making scientific breakthroughs to make IVF less costly financially, emotionally, and physically. They all sell what they agree to be "the current best practice". There is no effort to actually help patient, there is a huge effort to increase the bottom line. Many executives of infertility clinics are multi-millionaires and even REs live in luxury, driving Porsche, living in $2.5 million houses in Bethesda, having separate entrance for catering staff, buying luxury vacations. You get the picture. That is just not a picture of people who are in business to help people. Real breakthroughs happen in scientific labs like that one at MIT, usually by students living on student assistant salaries and student loans. IVF industry is quick to buy licenses on such inventions and sell them at a really high price. By now, IVF industry could have figured out better protocols for DOR patients and older patients, as well as other more complicated reproductive scenarios, but that is not in their business interest. With combined number of infertility clinics in the US alone, their purported "expertise", and number of years they have been in the business it should be natural to come up with more advanced methods. But because infertility is increasing among younger population they can just use old protocols to earn more money. Why reinvent the wheel when the current state serves them well.
They do not invest any extended effort into DOR patients and older women by customizing protocols and trying again. It simply doesn't pay off. DEs are a perfect business solution for increasing success rates while using age-old IVF methods on young and reproductively healthy donors. They only care to get that success rates through conception/live births with little regard for financial, ethical, moral, and emotional implications of those pregnancies.

TBH, this reads like you're having a tantrum that the world is not how you think it ought to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp here. Egg donor children are biologically your children if you carry them, they are not genetically but they are biologically. The carrier will turn on the genetic markers though so the child technically ends up with 3 people’s DNA the sperm carrier, the egg donor and the surrogate.

Rationalizing it that way is definitely easier but we all know that's simply not the truth.

You can’t rationalize science, pal.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3259508/Scientists-hail-amazing-discovery-s-revealed-infertile-mothers-use-donor-eggs-pass-DNA-children.html

talk about grasping at straws

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - there is one more point I wish to make about DEs. Note that I already made the first two points:

1. DE practice is cruel to children if it is not an open donation and if a donor does not agree to contact. Withholding any information from DE child is cruel. Lying to a child about it is unimaginable.

2. This is just for me personally: I would not carry a child of another women and my husband. I would feel like a surrogate for them. Please don't hate me for being honest.

3. Infertility clinics disgust me. They earn unimaginable amounts of money off people desperate for children. Now, don't get me wrong, I am all for business and making money. But prices are outrageous, many times thousands percentages over the cost of labor, equipment, supplies, utilities, leases, rentals, and other operating costs. But I guess that fits well within the outrageous cost structure of the US health care system. And since ART is considered a "luxury" prices are even more outrageous. Drug prices for IVF go hand in hand with that trend, exceeding average prices in the world by thousands of percents.
But this is not the worst part. Overall, IVF clinics are not in the business of making scientific breakthroughs to make IVF less costly financially, emotionally, and physically. They all sell what they agree to be "the current best practice". There is no effort to actually help patient, there is a huge effort to increase the bottom line. Many executives of infertility clinics are multi-millionaires and even REs live in luxury, driving Porsche, living in $2.5 million houses in Bethesda, having separate entrance for catering staff, buying luxury vacations. You get the picture. That is just not a picture of people who are in business to help people. Real breakthroughs happen in scientific labs like that one at MIT, usually by students living on student assistant salaries and student loans. IVF industry is quick to buy licenses on such inventions and sell them at a really high price. By now, IVF industry could have figured out better protocols for DOR patients and older patients, as well as other more complicated reproductive scenarios, but that is not in their business interest. With combined number of infertility clinics in the US alone, their purported "expertise", and number of years they have been in the business it should be natural to come up with more advanced methods. But because infertility is increasing among younger population they can just use old protocols to earn more money. Why reinvent the wheel when the current state serves them well.
They do not invest any extended effort into DOR patients and older women by customizing protocols and trying again. It simply doesn't pay off. DEs are a perfect business solution for increasing success rates while using age-old IVF methods on young and reproductively healthy donors. They only care to get that success rates through conception/live births with little regard for financial, ethical, moral, and emotional implications of those pregnancies.

TBH, this reads like you're having a tantrum that the world is not how you think it ought to be.

OP here - no, just basing my opinions on what I consider morally right (1), what doesn't work for me personally (2), and the realistic state of the IVF industry (3). I am not interested in sugar coating DE process. I am especially not interested in making infertility clinics rich for little effort they invest to truly help people. If you are an RE and if you have done 100 egg retrievals and have used cookie cutter protocols you will be skilled at it even if you are of lower IQ. So, really they have no reason whatsoever to justify their costs. Inventing new methods for DOR, older women, and those with complicated scenarios and making it possible for those populations to have their own genetic children would make me respect those clinics and "experts" more. I am not fond of Walmart packaged and sold as Whole Foods.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
OP here - no, just basing my opinions on what I consider morally right (1), what doesn't work for me personally (2), and the realistic state of the IVF industry (3). I am not interested in sugar coating DE process. I am especially not interested in making infertility clinics rich for little effort they invest to truly help people. If you are an RE and if you have done 100 egg retrievals and have used cookie cutter protocols you will be skilled at it even if you are of lower IQ. So, really they have no reason whatsoever to justify their costs. Inventing new methods for DOR, older women, and those with complicated scenarios and making it possible for those populations to have their own genetic children would make me respect those clinics and "experts" more. I am not fond of Walmart packaged and sold as Whole Foods.

Again, it sounds like you think the IVF industry should follow a vision you have for them. And they just really don't care. They have their own view on how they ought to operate, and it works for them and thousands of women. Are you that resentful that no one has invented a cure for cancer yet? You think medicine has an answer for everything and they just keep it under lock and key for some evil reasons of their own? There isn't currently a way to make women produce viable eggs regardless of age. If there was, believe me, they'd find a way to make you buy it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP here - no, just basing my opinions on what I consider morally right (1), what doesn't work for me personally (2), and the realistic state of the IVF industry (3). I am not interested in sugar coating DE process. I am especially not interested in making infertility clinics rich for little effort they invest to truly help people. If you are an RE and if you have done 100 egg retrievals and have used cookie cutter protocols you will be skilled at it even if you are of lower IQ. So, really they have no reason whatsoever to justify their costs. Inventing new methods for DOR, older women, and those with complicated scenarios and making it possible for those populations to have their own genetic children would make me respect those clinics and "experts" more. I am not fond of Walmart packaged and sold as Whole Foods.

Again, it sounds like you think the IVF industry should follow a vision you have for them. And they just really don't care. They have their own view on how they ought to operate, and it works for them and thousands of women. Are you that resentful that no one has invented a cure for cancer yet? You think medicine has an answer for everything and they just keep it under lock and key for some evil reasons of their own? There isn't currently a way to make women produce viable eggs regardless of age. If there was, believe me, they'd find a way to make you buy it.

Well said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP here - no, just basing my opinions on what I consider morally right (1), what doesn't work for me personally (2), and the realistic state of the IVF industry (3). I am not interested in sugar coating DE process. I am especially not interested in making infertility clinics rich for little effort they invest to truly help people. If you are an RE and if you have done 100 egg retrievals and have used cookie cutter protocols you will be skilled at it even if you are of lower IQ. So, really they have no reason whatsoever to justify their costs. Inventing new methods for DOR, older women, and those with complicated scenarios and making it possible for those populations to have their own genetic children would make me respect those clinics and "experts" more. I am not fond of Walmart packaged and sold as Whole Foods.

Again, it sounds like you think the IVF industry should follow a vision you have for them. And they just really don't care. They have their own view on how they ought to operate, and it works for them and thousands of women. Are you that resentful that no one has invented a cure for cancer yet? You think medicine has an answer for everything and they just keep it under lock and key for some evil reasons of their own? There isn't currently a way to make women produce viable eggs regardless of age. If there was, believe me, they'd find a way to make you buy it.

OP here - why would they invest any time, effort, and money (from huge profits) to get women viable eggs? Substituting DEs works without any investment, just use age-old protocols and dugs on donors. Yeah, they are so well-intentioned towards patients. Give me a break.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP here - no, just basing my opinions on what I consider morally right (1), what doesn't work for me personally (2), and the realistic state of the IVF industry (3). I am not interested in sugar coating DE process. I am especially not interested in making infertility clinics rich for little effort they invest to truly help people. If you are an RE and if you have done 100 egg retrievals and have used cookie cutter protocols you will be skilled at it even if you are of lower IQ. So, really they have no reason whatsoever to justify their costs. Inventing new methods for DOR, older women, and those with complicated scenarios and making it possible for those populations to have their own genetic children would make me respect those clinics and "experts" more. I am not fond of Walmart packaged and sold as Whole Foods.

Again, it sounds like you think the IVF industry should follow a vision you have for them. And they just really don't care. They have their own view on how they ought to operate, and it works for them and thousands of women. Are you that resentful that no one has invented a cure for cancer yet? You think medicine has an answer for everything and they just keep it under lock and key for some evil reasons of their own? There isn't currently a way to make women produce viable eggs regardless of age. If there was, believe me, they'd find a way to make you buy it.

OP here - why would they invest any time, effort, and money (from huge profits) to get women viable eggs?

Because you will be delighted to pay for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP here - no, just basing my opinions on what I consider morally right (1), what doesn't work for me personally (2), and the realistic state of the IVF industry (3). I am not interested in sugar coating DE process. I am especially not interested in making infertility clinics rich for little effort they invest to truly help people. If you are an RE and if you have done 100 egg retrievals and have used cookie cutter protocols you will be skilled at it even if you are of lower IQ. So, really they have no reason whatsoever to justify their costs. Inventing new methods for DOR, older women, and those with complicated scenarios and making it possible for those populations to have their own genetic children would make me respect those clinics and "experts" more. I am not fond of Walmart packaged and sold as Whole Foods.

Again, it sounds like you think the IVF industry should follow a vision you have for them. And they just really don't care. They have their own view on how they ought to operate, and it works for them and thousands of women. Are you that resentful that no one has invented a cure for cancer yet? You think medicine has an answer for everything and they just keep it under lock and key for some evil reasons of their own? There isn't currently a way to make women produce viable eggs regardless of age. If there was, believe me, they'd find a way to make you buy it.

OP here - why would they invest any time, effort, and money (from huge profits) to get women viable eggs? [/quote

Because you will be delighted to pay for it.

OP here - They don't invest money in new innovations to get women their own viable eggs because it is cheaper to substitute DEs by using old drugs and protocols on donors. You probably work for infertility industry and are threatened when people start speaking up the real truth. If you are RE you are scared to lose your 350k salary, $2.5 mortgage on Bethesda home, vacation to Bahamas, and tutors for your kids. I get it. You have too much at stake for too little that you give to people that you rip off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In my view my husband would have a child with another woman not me. No matter how blasé REs are about that and how much uproar comes from the group that says that genetic connection doesn't matter, no matter how nicely packaged the offer of donor egg, the plain truth is that my husband would be procreating with another woman. That's why I could never do it.

I know that people are nicer on this forum than on the other DCUMs forums, but I think you are crazy. Or maybe a troll.

I was in my early 40s when I was ready to start a family. Nobody pushed donor eggs on me, but I was given some sobering stats about my odds of conceiving with my own eggs. If you are willing to try, go through multiple rounds of IVF, bank embryos, test, and then see if it works, then more power to you. Quite frankly, this is the more lucrative path for the fertility clinics. But if that does not work, DE may be the only way to become pregnant. Please don't even try to take the joy of parenting away from women who went the DE route. This may not be for you, but those who gave birth with DE, gave birth to THEIR children and they love them from the bottom of their heart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP here - no, just basing my opinions on what I consider morally right (1), what doesn't work for me personally (2), and the realistic state of the IVF industry (3). I am not interested in sugar coating DE process. I am especially not interested in making infertility clinics rich for little effort they invest to truly help people. If you are an RE and if you have done 100 egg retrievals and have used cookie cutter protocols you will be skilled at it even if you are of lower IQ. So, really they have no reason whatsoever to justify their costs. Inventing new methods for DOR, older women, and those with complicated scenarios and making it possible for those populations to have their own genetic children would make me respect those clinics and "experts" more. I am not fond of Walmart packaged and sold as Whole Foods.

Again, it sounds like you think the IVF industry should follow a vision you have for them. And they just really don't care. They have their own view on how they ought to operate, and it works for them and thousands of women. Are you that resentful that no one has invented a cure for cancer yet? You think medicine has an answer for everything and they just keep it under lock and key for some evil reasons of their own? There isn't currently a way to make women produce viable eggs regardless of age. If there was, believe me, they'd find a way to make you buy it.

OP here - why would they invest any time, effort, and money (from huge profits) to get women viable eggs? [/quote

Because you will be delighted to pay for it.

OP here - They don't invest money in new innovations to get women their own viable eggs because it is cheaper to substitute DEs by using old drugs and protocols on donors. You probably work for infertility industry and are threatened when people start speaking up the real truth. If you are RE you are scared to lose your 350k salary, $2.5 mortgage on Bethesda home, vacation to Bahamas, and tutors for your kids. I get it. You have too much at stake for too little that you give to people that you rip off.

Now you're going into the crazy category. I understand that infertility is hurtful but what you're doing is not productive.

I am a 44-year old RE patient who had two kids with my own eggs at 41 and 44. No one pushed DEs on me because they were happy with my numbers - for a good reason, since I was able to conceive and carry term with my own material. If my numbers did not stack up, they would probably suggest DEs because that's what's available right now for women who cannot produce their own eggs. It's not personal. You have this weird delusion that the RE industry owes it to you to invest in whatever you think will give you your own eggs (even if science doesn't know of anything to produce this result). Like if you stomp your feet loud enough and somehow force them to pour enough money into it, you'd get the result you want?

Do you also think medicine didn't yet find a cure for cancer because multiple rounds of radiation and chemo are more lucrative? If there was a way to make older women produce their own eggs, they would happily pay DE-level costs for them. (DE patients - would you?)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my view my husband would have a child with another woman not me. No matter how blasé REs are about that and how much uproar comes from the group that says that genetic connection doesn't matter, no matter how nicely packaged the offer of donor egg, the plain truth is that my husband would be procreating with another woman. That's why I could never do it.

I know that people are nicer on this forum than on the other DCUMs forums, but I think you are crazy. Or maybe a troll.

I was in my early 40s when I was ready to start a family. Nobody pushed donor eggs on me, but I was given some sobering stats about my odds of conceiving with my own eggs. If you are willing to try, go through multiple rounds of IVF, bank embryos, test, and then see if it works, then more power to you. Quite frankly, this is the more lucrative path for the fertility clinics. But if that does not work, DE may be the only way to become pregnant. Please don't even try to take the joy of parenting away from women who went the DE route. This may not be for you, but those who gave birth with DE, gave birth to THEIR children and they love them from the bottom of their heart.

OP here - maybe you are a crazy or a troll (I never called anyone any names in my posts, I simply expressed an opinion that you don't like, that doesn't fit your idea of your reality, so you are quick to insult.). For the record: I am not taking anything away from you. Especially not your joys. If you are so assured about your DE choice you would not be here trying to insult me. But I am certainly not taking anything anything from anyone. You are living with your choice and if you are content than there is nothing for you to discuss. Unless you are having a self-reassuring monolog. You are welcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my view my husband would have a child with another woman not me. No matter how blasé REs are about that and how much uproar comes from the group that says that genetic connection doesn't matter, no matter how nicely packaged the offer of donor egg, the plain truth is that my husband would be procreating with another woman. That's why I could never do it.

I know that people are nicer on this forum than on the other DCUMs forums, but I think you are crazy. Or maybe a troll.

I was in my early 40s when I was ready to start a family. Nobody pushed donor eggs on me, but I was given some sobering stats about my odds of conceiving with my own eggs. If you are willing to try, go through multiple rounds of IVF, bank embryos, test, and then see if it works, then more power to you. Quite frankly, this is the more lucrative path for the fertility clinics. But if that does not work, DE may be the only way to become pregnant. Please don't even try to take the joy of parenting away from women who went the DE route. This may not be for you, but those who gave birth with DE, gave birth to THEIR children and they love them from the bottom of their heart.

OP here - maybe you are a crazy or a troll (I never called anyone any names in my posts, I simply expressed an opinion that you don't like, that doesn't fit your idea of your reality, so you are quick to insult.). For the record: I am not taking anything away from you. Especially not your joys. If you are so assured about your DE choice you would not be here trying to insult me. But I am certainly not taking anything anything from anyone. You are living with your choice and if you are content than there is nothing for you to discuss. Unless you are having a self-reassuring monolog. You are welcome.