New situation to talk about with my teen son...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does she not like oral and he kept telling her she would like and pressuring her to do it? Then she wakes up to him performing oral sex on her? This is the only way I would see him getting arrested for this.

What if, the next morning, she had rolled over and started doing that to wake him up and he realized that he really didn't want her to do that. Maybe he suddenly remembered that he already had a girlfriend or maybe he had morning after regrets and was no longer attracted to her. He pushes her away and she stops her advances. But it still happened, she still touched him...

Is that something that he should report to police? Should the young lady be arrested? Should she be threatened with prosecution? Should her frantic parents be called and given these kinds of graphic details about their daughter's sex life? Should she be kicked out of school? Should she be made to feel like a 'rapist"?

IMO yes to the bold in your scenario. Unless in an established relationship where there's precedent that it's desired, I don't think agreeing to a sexual encounter one night [assuming what happened before they went to sleep was consensual and mutually enjoyable] is consent to future sexual encounters. The couple you describe went to sleep after finishing having sex, so to me oral sex after one or both of them wakes up is a second, separate encounter. And yes, it seems like common sense that you'd need consent each time you want to have sex, unless an understanding had been established between the couple beforehand.

- A PP, but not one quoted above. Woman, with only daughters, if it matters.

You don't get how awful what you're saying is? Ruining someone's life by pursuing charges for a sex crime for the scenario you've described? Really? Really?

Not the PP, but yes, in that scenario, where he has clearly asked her to stop touching him in a sexual way and she continues doing it? That is a sex crime. Why should the person committing the crime NOT be charged with the crime?

See this is where DCUM is absurd. It didn't say she asked him to stop and he continued. You made that up. Maybe it happened that way, but you have no proof and your imagination is running wild. I would have to have you on a jury. Stick to the facts you know.

[Anonymous]

When I was in college I got drunk at a frat party and saw a guy I briefly dates who was also drunk. We ended up making out and he ripped my pants trying to go farther. In his defense these pants were pretty old and easy to rip. I initially didn't want to proceed to 3rd base, but enjoyed it. I also experienced oral sex for the first time. Not the ideal situation, but I enjoyed it.

When I got home that night one of my roommates was horrified and felt I had been sexually assaulted seeing my pants. I explained I enjoyed it and didn't consider it assault. I said I will never drink that much again though because I had no interest in being so involved with him since I had already broken up with him. She kept pushing me to report and apparently even discussed it all with her therapist. She thought I should see a therapist because I didn't understand I had been assaulted. I got drunk, hooked up, went farther than I wanted, but then liked it and pants got ripped. I was not a victim.

If he forced himself on me when I was screaming or did forced sex it would be rape. This was not. I am a big girl and was stupid to get so drunk. He is a big boy and was stupid to get so drunk. He is fortunate I am a rational person because that could have ended his college career.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I was in college I got drunk at a frat party and saw a guy I briefly dates who was also drunk. We ended up making out and he ripped my pants trying to go farther. In his defense these pants were pretty old and easy to rip. I initially didn't want to proceed to 3rd base, but enjoyed it. I also experienced oral sex for the first time. Not the ideal situation, but I enjoyed it.

When I got home that night one of my roommates was horrified and felt I had been sexually assaulted seeing my pants. I explained I enjoyed it and didn't consider it assault. I said I will never drink that much again though because I had no interest in being so involved with him since I had already broken up with him. She kept pushing me to report and apparently even discussed it all with her therapist. She thought I should see a therapist because I didn't understand I had been assaulted. I got drunk, hooked up, went farther than I wanted, but then liked it and pants got ripped. I was not a victim.

If he forced himself on me when I was screaming or did forced sex it would be rape. This was not. I am a big girl and was stupid to get so drunk. He is a big boy and was stupid to get so drunk. He is fortunate I am a rational person because that could have ended his college career.

And this is the way it plays out with most college kids....thank goodness.

Out of curiosity, why do you think that your roommate was so vested in you pressing sexual assault charges?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is highly unlikely that this is the whole story if there was an arrest and the young man was expelled from his college.

Is there a link to a news article about this story?

That's because this story isn't real. OP wanted to do a PSA on teaching teens about consent etc, but that was boring so she decided to post a cautionary tale of a friend like an 80s afterschool special.

Well, that is a possibility. If it is true, I would think a case like this would be in the news, especially since there was an arrest and it seems to present a controversial set of facts.

This story is in the news in that state. I can't put all details because it would identify him and unfortunately due to social media, the victim. Because when I searched for his arrest record, I was easily able to find the victims name mentioned along with his in some social media posts. That part really upset me. Young people need to learn boundaries on social media! Posting things like, "did you hear that @FriendsSon and @Victim broke up cuz he got arrested for rape." There's NO reason why their friends needed to comment anything about the incident on Twitter. If my kid Tweeted or Retweeted something that identified the victim in a crime, I'd be irate regardless of their age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a criminal defense attorney and have had probably one or two of these types of cases per year. One of my friends has had several as well. They aren't uncommon. If I were the mother of a son, I would be teaching him a multi-step process to follow before having sex. In this case, it sounds like the son made a statement about what happened. That will be used against him.

These cases are terrifying for my clients and their families. Every kid should be taught to remain silent in the face of any accusation like this and to tell their parents about it and CALL A LAWYER. If this family called me and said thisnaccusation has been made and the school/the police want to talk to him about what happened, I would direct the son not to make any statement to anyone about this. He would attend no meeting and would exercise his right to remain silent.

Yes, he did make his initial statement of his side of the story (which matched hers) to the Dean who was investigating. That statement and their other gathered evidence is what was turned over to the local PD, who then questioned him. My friend said he didn't tell his parents about the questioning until AFTER her met with police and his friend told him that he could be in some serious trouble. Until then he thought it would just be found to be a misunderstanding because in his eyes, he stopped when she freaked out so he didn't do anything wrong. I also think he was trying to hide the incident from his parents thinking it would blow over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is highly unlikely that this is the whole story if there was an arrest and the young man was expelled from his college.

Is there a link to a news article about this story?

That's because this story isn't real. OP wanted to do a PSA on teaching teens about consent etc, but that was boring so she decided to post a cautionary tale of a friend like an 80s afterschool special.

Well, that is a possibility. If it is true, I would think a case like this would be in the news, especially since there was an arrest and it seems to present a controversial set of facts.

This story is in the news in that state. I can't put all details because it would identify him and unfortunately due to social media, the victim. Because when I searched for his arrest record, I was easily able to find the victims name mentioned along with his in some social media posts. That part really upset me. Young people need to learn boundaries on social media! Posting things like, "did you hear that @FriendsSon and @Victim broke up cuz he got arrested for rape." There's NO reason why their friends needed to comment anything about the incident on Twitter. If my kid Tweeted or Retweeted something that identified the victim in a crime, I'd be irate regardless of their age.

I really do not want the details because I think that on this thread we are talking about hypothetical situations and what could happen.

As far as the folks talking about this on social media. It sounds as though this was more of a scandal then an actual crime (I'm assuming charges were dropped) and folks do like to gossip....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is highly unlikely that this is the whole story if there was an arrest and the young man was expelled from his college.

Is there a link to a news article about this story?

That's because this story isn't real. OP wanted to do a PSA on teaching teens about consent etc, but that was boring so she decided to post a cautionary tale of a friend like an 80s afterschool special.

Well, that is a possibility. If it is true, I would think a case like this would be in the news, especially since there was an arrest and it seems to present a controversial set of facts.

This story is in the news in that state. I can't put all details because it would identify him and unfortunately due to social media, the victim. Because when I searched for his arrest record, I was easily able to find the victims name mentioned along with his in some social media posts. That part really upset me. Young people need to learn boundaries on social media! Posting things like, "did you hear that @FriendsSon and @Victim broke up cuz he got arrested for rape." There's NO reason why their friends needed to comment anything about the incident on Twitter. If my kid Tweeted or Retweeted something that identified the victim in a crime, I'd be irate regardless of their age.

I really do not want the details because I think that on this thread we are talking about hypothetical situations and what could happen.

As far as the folks talking about this on social media. It sounds as though this was more of a scandal then an actual crime (I'm assuming charges were dropped) and folks do like to gossip...

I'm confused. If the story is already in the news, how does providing a link to the story identify the defendant? He either is or isn't already identified in the news story.

I just think it is easier to respond to a story that has facts from a news source. No offense to the OP, who is repeating what he or she was told by the mother of the young man involved in the story, but I'd like to see how the story is being told by an objective news source.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is highly unlikely that this is the whole story if there was an arrest and the young man was expelled from his college.

Is there a link to a news article about this story?

That's because this story isn't real. OP wanted to do a PSA on teaching teens about consent etc, but that was boring so she decided to post a cautionary tale of a friend like an 80s afterschool special.

Well, that is a possibility. If it is true, I would think a case like this would be in the news, especially since there was an arrest and it seems to present a controversial set of facts.

This story is in the news in that state. I can't put all details because it would identify him and unfortunately due to social media, the victim. Because when I searched for his arrest record, I was easily able to find the victims name mentioned along with his in some social media posts. That part really upset me. Young people need to learn boundaries on social media! Posting things like, "did you hear that @FriendsSon and @Victim broke up cuz he got arrested for rape." There's NO reason why their friends needed to comment anything about the incident on Twitter. If my kid Tweeted or Retweeted something that identified the victim in a crime, I'd be irate regardless of their age.

I really do not want the details because I think that on this thread we are talking about hypothetical situations and what could happen.

As far as the folks talking about this on social media. It sounds as though this was more of a scandal then an actual crime (I'm assuming charges were dropped) and folks do like to gossip...

I'm confused. If the story is already in the news, how does providing a link to the story identify the defendant? He either is or isn't already identified in the news story.

I just think it is easier to respond to a story that has facts from a news source. No offense to the OP, who is repeating what he or she was told by the mother of the young man involved in the story, but I'd like to see how the story is being told by an objective news source.

I don't know that I feel comfortable knowing either one of their names. It seems like there was a major over reaction on the parts of many in authority over what was essentially a personal dispute...a misunderstanding(?).

I guess if the young woman had stormed straight out to the police station to report this alleged misconduct that would be one thing. Or if she was maliciously trying to get the guy kicked out of college that would be one thing. But it sounds as though this girl was having some kind of emotional breakdown (maybe a mental health issue) and the university felt that it was best for the police to sort through the murky details? It's a shame that this got so far...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is highly unlikely that this is the whole story if there was an arrest and the young man was expelled from his college.

Is there a link to a news article about this story?

That's because this story isn't real. OP wanted to do a PSA on teaching teens about consent etc, but that was boring so she decided to post a cautionary tale of a friend like an 80s afterschool special.

Well, that is a possibility. If it is true, I would think a case like this would be in the news, especially since there was an arrest and it seems to present a controversial set of facts.

This story is in the news in that state. I can't put all details because it would identify him and unfortunately due to social media, the victim. Because when I searched for his arrest record, I was easily able to find the victims name mentioned along with his in some social media posts. That part really upset me. Young people need to learn boundaries on social media! Posting things like, "did you hear that @FriendsSon and @Victim broke up cuz he got arrested for rape." There's NO reason why their friends needed to comment anything about the incident on Twitter. If my kid Tweeted or Retweeted something that identified the victim in a crime, I'd be irate regardless of their age.

I tried googling and there is no news story. Made up BS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is highly unlikely that this is the whole story if there was an arrest and the young man was expelled from his college.

Is there a link to a news article about this story?

That's because this story isn't real. OP wanted to do a PSA on teaching teens about consent etc, but that was boring so she decided to post a cautionary tale of a friend like an 80s afterschool special.

Well, that is a possibility. If it is true, I would think a case like this would be in the news, especially since there was an arrest and it seems to present a controversial set of facts.

This story is in the news in that state. I can't put all details because it would identify him and unfortunately due to social media, the victim. Because when I searched for his arrest record, I was easily able to find the victims name mentioned along with his in some social media posts. That part really upset me. Young people need to learn boundaries on social media! Posting things like, "did you hear that @FriendsSon and @Victim broke up cuz he got arrested for rape." There's NO reason why their friends needed to comment anything about the incident on Twitter. If my kid Tweeted or Retweeted something that identified the victim in a crime, I'd be irate regardless of their age.

I tried googling and there is no news story. Made up BS

Is Op a troll or do you think that her friend made something like this up about her own son? If no crime were committed and they decided not to charge him why would this ever make the news?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is highly unlikely that this is the whole story if there was an arrest and the young man was expelled from his college.

Is there a link to a news article about this story?

That's because this story isn't real. OP wanted to do a PSA on teaching teens about consent etc, but that was boring so she decided to post a cautionary tale of a friend like an 80s afterschool special.

Well, that is a possibility. If it is true, I would think a case like this would be in the news, especially since there was an arrest and it seems to present a controversial set of facts.

This story is in the news in that state. I can't put all details because it would identify him and unfortunately due to social media, the victim. Because when I searched for his arrest record, I was easily able to find the victims name mentioned along with his in some social media posts. That part really upset me. Young people need to learn boundaries on social media! Posting things like, "did you hear that @FriendsSon and @Victim broke up cuz he got arrested for rape." There's NO reason why their friends needed to comment anything about the incident on Twitter. If my kid Tweeted or Retweeted something that identified the victim in a crime, I'd be irate regardless of their age.

I really do not want the details because I think that on this thread we are talking about hypothetical situations and what could happen.

As far as the folks talking about this on social media. It sounds as though this was more of a scandal then an actual crime (I'm assuming charges were dropped) and folks do like to gossip...

I'm confused. If the story is already in the news, how does providing a link to the story identify the defendant? He either is or isn't already identified in the news story.

I just think it is easier to respond to a story that has facts from a news source. No offense to the OP, who is repeating what he or she was told by the mother of the young man involved in the story, but I'd like to see how the story is being told by an objective news source.

I don't know that I feel comfortable knowing either one of their names. It seems like there was a major over reaction on the parts of many in authority over what was essentially a personal dispute...a misunderstanding(?).

I guess if the young woman had stormed straight out to the police station to report this alleged misconduct that would be one thing. Or if she was maliciously trying to get the guy kicked out of college that would be one thing. But it sounds as though this girl was having some kind of emotional breakdown (maybe a mental health issue) and the university felt that it was best for the police to sort through the murky details? It's a shame that this got so far...

It's not a matter of wanting to know the names of the people involved, it is just wanting to hear the facts if the story from an outside source. I think a parent or friend is likely to tell the story in a way that is favorable to their loved one, just out of understandable human nature. I'd rather hear the story from an objective source.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is highly unlikely that this is the whole story if there was an arrest and the young man was expelled from his college.

Is there a link to a news article about this story?

That's because this story isn't real. OP wanted to do a PSA on teaching teens about consent etc, but that was boring so she decided to post a cautionary tale of a friend like an 80s afterschool special.

Well, that is a possibility. If it is true, I would think a case like this would be in the news, especially since there was an arrest and it seems to present a controversial set of facts.

This story is in the news in that state. I can't put all details because it would identify him and unfortunately due to social media, the victim. Because when I searched for his arrest record, I was easily able to find the victims name mentioned along with his in some social media posts. That part really upset me. Young people need to learn boundaries on social media! Posting things like, "did you hear that @FriendsSon and @Victim broke up cuz he got arrested for rape." There's NO reason why their friends needed to comment anything about the incident on Twitter. If my kid Tweeted or Retweeted something that identified the victim in a crime, I'd be irate regardless of their age.

I really do not want the details because I think that on this thread we are talking about hypothetical situations and what could happen.

As far as the folks talking about this on social media. It sounds as though this was more of a scandal then an actual crime (I'm assuming charges were dropped) and folks do like to gossip...

I'm confused. If the story is already in the news, how does providing a link to the story identify the defendant? He either is or isn't already identified in the news story.

I just think it is easier to respond to a story that has facts from a news source. No offense to the OP, who is repeating what he or she was told by the mother of the young man involved in the story, but I'd like to see how the story is being told by an objective news source.

I don't know that I feel comfortable knowing either one of their names. It seems like there was a major over reaction on the parts of many in authority over what was essentially a personal dispute...a misunderstanding(?).

I guess if the young woman had stormed straight out to the police station to report this alleged misconduct that would be one thing. Or if she was maliciously trying to get the guy kicked out of college that would be one thing. But it sounds as though this girl was having some kind of emotional breakdown (maybe a mental health issue) and the university felt that it was best for the police to sort through the murky details? It's a shame that this got so far...

It's not a matter of wanting to know the names of the people involved, it is just wanting to hear the facts if the story from an outside source. I think a parent or friend is likely to tell the story in a way that is favorable to their loved one, just out of understandable human nature. I'd rather hear the story from an objective source.

I would too. But if there were no crime committed then I do not think it's appropriate for that young man's name to be mentioned in particular. Would you want your son's name mentioned in this context if he did nothing wrong? I sure as h*ll wouldn't. And if I had a daughter who was suffering from a major mental health problem which led to an unfortunate personal dispute, I wouldn't want her name blared all over the news either.

Like I said, if this is for real it is a terrible shame that it got so far. The university probably can't talk about it due to privacy concerns and the police won't talk about it because no one was charged with a crime.

In the meantime, my heart goes out to the parents of that young man because they probably are out $$$ over this hiring lawyers. Something this stressful could literally kill a parent. And the girl's parents might be completely oblivious to what is going on with their daughter which is awful.

And, of course, none of us know if this really happened, if the facts are accurate, etc. We're just left to worry that something like this COULD happen to any of our kids - male or female.

[Anonymous]

Not talking about this particular case, but instead the new reality. If a man and woman get totally drunk and have sex why is it the man is expected to have complete cognitive capacity and ask her a detailed line of questions before he puts his penis in even if they are naked and aroused. However, if she didn't give consent she has a right to press charges.

Back to the case. She was in bed, naked and had sex with him. He was a moron for not asking, but plenty of horny men do not think enough about consequences. What if he was still drunk in the morning? Why did she stay over night with him in a state of nakedness? This is not blaming a victim. This is about people taking care of themselves like grownups. If he doesn't want to wake up to someone touching him, then he shouldn't sleep naked with someone he already had sex with either.

It's hard enough to get horny teens and young adults to talk openly about birthcontrol and STDS before sex. If they have access to alcohol it makes things worse. Do we really think these kids will now think to ask when making out-may I touch your breasts? Then after fingering..may I proceed to penile penetration? She might turn to him and say "May I give you oral sex?" What if she accidentally uses teeth? He didn't agree to this? Is that assault?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Not talking about this particular case, but instead the new reality. If a man and woman get totally drunk and have sex why is it the man is expected to have complete cognitive capacity and ask her a detailed line of questions before he puts his penis in even if they are naked and aroused. However, if she didn't give consent she has a right to press charges.

Back to the case. She was in bed, naked and had sex with him. He was a moron for not asking, but plenty of horny men do not think enough about consequences. What if he was still drunk in the morning? Why did she stay over night with him in a state of nakedness? This is not blaming a victim. This is about people taking care of themselves like grownups. If he doesn't want to wake up to someone touching him, then he shouldn't sleep naked with someone he already had sex with either.

It's hard enough to get horny teens and young adults to talk openly about birthcontrol and STDS before sex. If they have access to alcohol it makes things worse. Do we really think these kids will now think to ask when making out-may I touch your breasts? Then after fingering..may I proceed to penile penetration? She might turn to him and say "May I give you oral sex?" What if she accidentally uses teeth? He didn't agree to this? Is that assault?

I hope no prosecutor is stupid enough to take this to trial. This is not assault. I got extremely drunk when i was a teen (don't remember most of it) and slept with a guy. I was not able to consent. But I took that right away from myself when I got drunk. I felt horrible afterwords, but I did not feel like he assaulted me. I do feel i was assaulted when a friend of my ex took all of this clothes off and decided to sit on top of me while trying to stick his penis in my mouth for two hours. I was not drunk, I did not consent and I fought him off luckily. I have a son and hope he never ends up unfortunate enough to encounter someone like the girl from this story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not talking about this particular case, but instead the new reality. If a man and woman get totally drunk and have sex why is it the man is expected to have complete cognitive capacity and ask her a detailed line of questions before he puts his penis in even if they are naked and aroused. However, if she didn't give consent she has a right to press charges.

Back to the case. She was in bed, naked and had sex with him. He was a moron for not asking, but plenty of horny men do not think enough about consequences. What if he was still drunk in the morning? Why did she stay over night with him in a state of nakedness? This is not blaming a victim. This is about people taking care of themselves like grownups. If he doesn't want to wake up to someone touching him, then he shouldn't sleep naked with someone he already had sex with either.

It's hard enough to get horny teens and young adults to talk openly about birthcontrol and STDS before sex. If they have access to alcohol it makes things worse. Do we really think these kids will now think to ask when making out-may I touch your breasts? Then after fingering..may I proceed to penile penetration? She might turn to him and say "May I give you oral sex?" What if she accidentally uses teeth? He didn't agree to this? Is that assault?

I hope no prosecutor is stupid enough to take this to trial. This is not assault. I got extremely drunk when i was a teen (don't remember most of it) and slept with a guy. I was not able to consent. But I took that right away from myself when I got drunk. I felt horrible afterwords, but I did not feel like he assaulted me. I do feel i was assaulted when a friend of my ex took all of this clothes off and decided to sit on top of me while trying to stick his penis in my mouth for two hours. I was not drunk, I did not consent and I fought him off luckily. I have a son and hope he never ends up unfortunate enough to encounter someone like the girl from this story.

This is not true. You were not able to consent, period, so what happened WAS sexual assault, whether you felt like it was or not. Obviously it depends on the state, but many states have laws that specifically state that being intoxicated renders a person UNABLE to give consent, the same way that being mentally incompetent or being under age render a person unable to give consent. I'm glad that you do not feel that this experience was sexual assault, from a psychological perspective, and I'm so sorry for the other assault you experienced, but you are NOT the arbiter of what the definition of sexual assault is.