New situation to talk about with my teen son...

[Anonymous]

Haven't read all the responses. Perhaps she was drunk (or they both were) when they had sex. She didn't remember they now had a sexual relationship so she freaked out when he was giving her oral?

If a make woke up to oral sex what are the chances he would freak out and claim assault?

Thank you for sharing OP. I have a son and am worried about this sort of thing. Look at the whole UVA fiasco. Yes, women get assaulted and this sort of thing just deflects from things like rape. He made a mistake. IMO that was not sexual assault. If however, they never had sex and he found a passed out woman at a frat party and performed oral-then yes. For this, it was very poor judgment because he didn't know her long enough to know what turns her on and what freaks her out.. I would hire a lawyer.

[Anonymous]

Sorry MALE not make.

[Anonymous]

It is highly unlikely that this is the whole story if there was an arrest and the young man was expelled from his college.

Is there a link to a news article about this story?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He may have been arrested, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he'll be charged with a crime, that's up to the DA's office. Being arrested & being charged are two VERY different things (which makes the universities decision to expel even more shocking, bit I'll get to that later).

It will all depend on credibility & circumstances, since there's likely not to be any evidence (they were together the night before, so DNA would most likely be ruled out), so they're going to have to rely heavily on the credibility of the victims testimony (because the defense attorney WILL try to rip her credibility & her testimony to shreds and the DA knows this ahead of time). Especially if it was truly a misunderstanding or a lack of judgement on his part, if there are any holes in her story, they won't embarrass themselves by pressing charges.

Certainly from the story told it doesn't sound like there was any malice on his part, or intent to do harm.

The DA may not feel like they have a strong enough case to press charges or the victim may refuse to testify (because THEN it becomes a matter of public record, the local & most likely national newspapers latch on to the story seeing that this is (as you said) a new "situation" that hasn't been discussed before).

She's going to have to really think about whether she wants to testify, because even if Jane Doe is used, people already know who she is & college students talk & will talk to the press & anyone else that will listen. Let's just assume the story that the OP told is entirely true & nothing is being left out, I don't see any jury convicting this boy & potentially ruining his life on these basis (and if she perjurs herself, enhances the story, or lies in any way to make herself appear more credible, they could make an example out of her & she could be forced to have to pay for his attorneys fees). Then this story doesn't only follow him for life, it follows her too.

If the DA does in fact drop all charges, you should tell your friend to move to have the arrest expunged from his record (and if he's a minor, have that record sealed), because if it remains in his record regardless that he wasn't charged, it can be used against him for the rest of gooyd life (from background checks for employment, to his name being encompassed in a search for possible sexual predators in a crime).

I'm also very surprised that the university already expelled him without the boy even being charged with a crime yet!
That boy is entitled to due process & it is absurd that they would make themselves the forensics investigators, prosecutors, judge & jury without determining ALL of the facts first.

If that's the case & they did jump the gun, there very well could be a legal case against the university as well (if he's not charged with a crime).

Before anyone jumps down my throat for being insensitive to the victim, I'm basing my opinions as someone who has worked in the court & legal system for over 10 years & on this story being in fact TRUE & nothing is being left out, because that's all we have to go on.

If this story is true, nothing being left out & it truly was a misunderstanding or lack of good judgement on his part, the DA won't press charges & the boy will have gotten the scare & the life lesson of a lifetime.

+1
I agree with everything you just said. I don'tt see any jury convicting him from this story and the prosecutor wouldn't attempt to try him if they know that they will definitely lose.

In the meantime, his terrified parents are frantically forking over money to lawyers to save their son from what could be a life ruining misunderstanding. They have no clue that the prosecutor (haha!) would never bring this case to trial....

Guess the jokes on them, right?

[Anonymous]

And the young man has been arrested in front of his roommates and neighbors or even classmates and hauled off to jail....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He may have been arrested, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he'll be charged with a crime, that's up to the DA's office. Being arrested & being charged are two VERY different things (which makes the universities decision to expel even more shocking, bit I'll get to that later).

It will all depend on credibility & circumstances, since there's likely not to be any evidence (they were together the night before, so DNA would most likely be ruled out), so they're going to have to rely heavily on the credibility of the victims testimony (because the defense attorney WILL try to rip her credibility & her testimony to shreds and the DA knows this ahead of time). Especially if it was truly a misunderstanding or a lack of judgement on his part, if there are any holes in her story, they won't embarrass themselves by pressing charges.

Certainly from the story told it doesn't sound like there was any malice on his part, or intent to do harm.

The DA may not feel like they have a strong enough case to press charges or the victim may refuse to testify (because THEN it becomes a matter of public record, the local & most likely national newspapers latch on to the story seeing that this is (as you said) a new "situation" that hasn't been discussed before).

She's going to have to really think about whether she wants to testify, because even if Jane Doe is used, people already know who she is & college students talk & will talk to the press & anyone else that will listen. Let's just assume the story that the OP told is entirely true & nothing is being left out, I don't see any jury convicting this boy & potentially ruining his life on these basis (and if she perjurs herself, enhances the story, or lies in any way to make herself appear more credible, they could make an example out of her & she could be forced to have to pay for his attorneys fees). Then this story doesn't only follow him for life, it follows her too.

If the DA does in fact drop all charges, you should tell your friend to move to have the arrest expunged from his record (and if he's a minor, have that record sealed), because if it remains in his record regardless that he wasn't charged, it can be used against him for the rest of gooyd life (from background checks for employment, to his name being encompassed in a search for possible sexual predators in a crime).

I'm also very surprised that the university already expelled him without the boy even being charged with a crime yet!
That boy is entitled to due process & it is absurd that they would make themselves the forensics investigators, prosecutors, judge & jury without determining ALL of the facts first.

If that's the case & they did jump the gun, there very well could be a legal case against the university as well (if he's not charged with a crime).

Before anyone jumps down my throat for being insensitive to the victim, I'm basing my opinions as someone who has worked in the court & legal system for over 10 years & on this story being in fact TRUE & nothing is being left out, because that's all we have to go on.

If this story is true, nothing being left out & it truly was a misunderstanding or lack of good judgement on his part, the DA won't press charges & the boy will have gotten the scare & the life lesson of a lifetime.

+1
I agree with everything you just said. I don'tt see any jury convicting him from this story and the prosecutor wouldn't attempt to try him if they know that they will definitely lose.

In the meantime, his terrified parents are frantically forking over money to lawyers to save their son from what could be a life ruining misunderstanding. They have no clue that the prosecutor (haha!) would never bring this case to trial....

Guess the jokes on them, right?

God, I love a troll.
Where exactly did I post that they shouldn't be worried or hire a defense attorney???

This is a very serious claim, one that can ruin this boys life.
However, as I stated from my experience working 10+ years in the court system, the DA will not press charges over a misunderstanding or a lack of good judgement if there was NO malicious intent... especially if there's no prior arrests or a history of violence or abuse. Prosecutors are very wary of pursuing charges based on circumstantial evidence alone. Direct evidence leads to immediate charged being filled after arrest (which is why her friends son hasn't been charged yet, all of the evidence is circumstantial).

The DA may get him to try to plead down to a misdemeanor to avoid a trial, but that's up to the family whether or not that's something they want to entertain.

[Anonymous]

At a certain point I feel like we are going to be just hovering over them while they are doing it.

If there is not more to this story and he stopped, yes sometimes a rose is a rose and it IS a misunderstanding. If there is more, well then the whole story here doesn't necessarily matter

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He may have been arrested, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he'll be charged with a crime, that's up to the DA's office. Being arrested & being charged are two VERY different things (which makes the universities decision to expel even more shocking, bit I'll get to that later).

It will all depend on credibility & circumstances, since there's likely not to be any evidence (they were together the night before, so DNA would most likely be ruled out), so they're going to have to rely heavily on the credibility of the victims testimony (because the defense attorney WILL try to rip her credibility & her testimony to shreds and the DA knows this ahead of time). Especially if it was truly a misunderstanding or a lack of judgement on his part, if there are any holes in her story, they won't embarrass themselves by pressing charges.

Certainly from the story told it doesn't sound like there was any malice on his part, or intent to do harm.

The DA may not feel like they have a strong enough case to press charges or the victim may refuse to testify (because THEN it becomes a matter of public record, the local & most likely national newspapers latch on to the story seeing that this is (as you said) a new "situation" that hasn't been discussed before).

She's going to have to really think about whether she wants to testify, because even if Jane Doe is used, people already know who she is & college students talk & will talk to the press & anyone else that will listen. Let's just assume the story that the OP told is entirely true & nothing is being left out, I don't see any jury convicting this boy & potentially ruining his life on these basis (and if she perjurs herself, enhances the story, or lies in any way to make herself appear more credible, they could make an example out of her & she could be forced to have to pay for his attorneys fees). Then this story doesn't only follow him for life, it follows her too.

If the DA does in fact drop all charges, you should tell your friend to move to have the arrest expunged from his record (and if he's a minor, have that record sealed), because if it remains in his record regardless that he wasn't charged, it can be used against him for the rest of gooyd life (from background checks for employment, to his name being encompassed in a search for possible sexual predators in a crime).

I'm also very surprised that the university already expelled him without the boy even being charged with a crime yet!
That boy is entitled to due process & it is absurd that they would make themselves the forensics investigators, prosecutors, judge & jury without determining ALL of the facts first.

If that's the case & they did jump the gun, there very well could be a legal case against the university as well (if he's not charged with a crime).

Before anyone jumps down my throat for being insensitive to the victim, I'm basing my opinions as someone who has worked in the court & legal system for over 10 years & on this story being in fact TRUE & nothing is being left out, because that's all we have to go on.

If this story is true, nothing being left out & it truly was a misunderstanding or lack of good judgement on his part, the DA won't press charges & the boy will have gotten the scare & the life lesson of a lifetime.

+1
I agree with everything you just said. I don'tt see any jury convicting him from this story and the prosecutor wouldn't attempt to try him if they know that they will definitely lose.

In the meantime, his terrified parents are frantically forking over money to lawyers to save their son from what could be a life ruining misunderstanding. They have no clue that the prosecutor (haha!) would never bring this case to trial....

Guess the jokes on them, right?

God, I love a troll.
Where exactly did I post that they shouldn't be worried or hire a defense attorney???

This is a very serious claim, one that can ruin this boys life.
However, as I stated from my experience working 10+ years in the court system, the DA will not press charges over a misunderstanding or a lack of good judgement if there was NO malicious intent... especially if there's no prior arrests or a history of violence or abuse. Prosecutors are very wary of pursuing charges based on circumstantial evidence alone. Direct evidence leads to immediate charged being filled after arrest (which is why her friends son hasn't been charged yet, all of the evidence is circumstantial).

The DA may get him to try to plead down to a misdemeanor to avoid a trial, but that's up to the family whether or not that's something they want to entertain.

Sounds like there was no malicious intent on this young man's part. But WTH about everyone else? If the facts as stated are accurate - that is really terrible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He may have been arrested, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he'll be charged with a crime, that's up to the DA's office. Being arrested & being charged are two VERY different things (which makes the universities decision to expel even more shocking, bit I'll get to that later).

It will all depend on credibility & circumstances, since there's likely not to be any evidence (they were together the night before, so DNA would most likely be ruled out), so they're going to have to rely heavily on the credibility of the victims testimony (because the defense attorney WILL try to rip her credibility & her testimony to shreds and the DA knows this ahead of time). Especially if it was truly a misunderstanding or a lack of judgement on his part, if there are any holes in her story, they won't embarrass themselves by pressing charges.

Certainly from the story told it doesn't sound like there was any malice on his part, or intent to do harm.

The DA may not feel like they have a strong enough case to press charges or the victim may refuse to testify (because THEN it becomes a matter of public record, the local & most likely national newspapers latch on to the story seeing that this is (as you said) a new "situation" that hasn't been discussed before).

She's going to have to really think about whether she wants to testify, because even if Jane Doe is used, people already know who she is & college students talk & will talk to the press & anyone else that will listen. Let's just assume the story that the OP told is entirely true & nothing is being left out, I don't see any jury convicting this boy & potentially ruining his life on these basis (and if she perjurs herself, enhances the story, or lies in any way to make herself appear more credible, they could make an example out of her & she could be forced to have to pay for his attorneys fees). Then this story doesn't only follow him for life, it follows her too.

If the DA does in fact drop all charges, you should tell your friend to move to have the arrest expunged from his record (and if he's a minor, have that record sealed), because if it remains in his record regardless that he wasn't charged, it can be used against him for the rest of gooyd life (from background checks for employment, to his name being encompassed in a search for possible sexual predators in a crime).

I'm also very surprised that the university already expelled him without the boy even being charged with a crime yet!
That boy is entitled to due process & it is absurd that they would make themselves the forensics investigators, prosecutors, judge & jury without determining ALL of the facts first.

If that's the case & they did jump the gun, there very well could be a legal case against the university as well (if he's not charged with a crime).

Before anyone jumps down my throat for being insensitive to the victim, I'm basing my opinions as someone who has worked in the court & legal system for over 10 years & on this story being in fact TRUE & nothing is being left out, because that's all we have to go on.

If this story is true, nothing being left out & it truly was a misunderstanding or lack of good judgement on his part, the DA won't press charges & the boy will have gotten the scare & the life lesson of a lifetime.

+1
I agree with everything you just said. I don'tt see any jury convicting him from this story and the prosecutor wouldn't attempt to try him if they know that they will definitely lose.

In the meantime, his terrified parents are frantically forking over money to lawyers to save their son from what could be a life ruining misunderstanding. They have no clue that the prosecutor (haha!) would never bring this case to trial....

Guess the jokes on them, right?

God, I love a troll.
Where exactly did I post that they shouldn't be worried or hire a defense attorney???

This is a very serious claim, one that can ruin this boys life.
However, as I stated from my experience working 10+ years in the court system, the DA will not press charges over a misunderstanding or a lack of good judgement if there was NO malicious intent... especially if there's no prior arrests or a history of violence or abuse. Prosecutors are very wary of pursuing charges based on circumstantial evidence alone. Direct evidence leads to immediate charged being filled after arrest (which is why her friends son hasn't been charged yet, all of the evidence is circumstantial).

The DA may get him to try to plead down to a misdemeanor to avoid a trial, but that's up to the family whether or not that's something they want to entertain.

Sounds like there was no malicious intent on this young man's part. But WTH about everyone else? If the facts as stated are accurate - that is really terrible.

I'm the previous poster who wrote that & you are EXACTLY right, I could not agree more. It's the exact reason why more victims don't come forward & it's an antiqued way of pursuing justice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and I have covered sex, consent, no means no, etc. with our teen son, but now we have a new scenario to teach him about.

My friend's teen son in college was arrested for sexual assault recently. She shared with me and a few other close friends what happened so that we could use her son's mistake to educate our kids. It's honestly not a scenario I'd thought to cover with him.

He met a girl at a football game and they hit it off. They exchanged info. and went on some dates. They began exclusively dating and having a sexual relationship and things were fine. They had sex one evening and she stayed the night with him. He thought it would be "cute and romantic" to wake her up the next morning with oral sex. She was angry when she woke up and told him that was not okay with her. He apologized and she said she needed to re-evaluate their relationship. No contact happened for a little over a week and then he was called in by one of the dean's because the assault was reported by her. Interviews happened and the case was turned over to the local authorities. More interviews and investigating happened and he was arrested by the local police in his college town. He was released on bond and was told to have no contact with her until the school finished their investigation process. He got called before the disciplinary committee right before school let out for winter break and was expelled from college for violating the university's integrity code.

We had the talk with our son that if a woman gives consent and during the act says she'd like to stop, you stop. If during the act she seems like she's in pain or uncomfortable but doesn't say anything, you stop. We've told him that kissing doesn't equal permission to be handsy. Agreeing to oral sex doesn't equal permission to have sex. And now we're going to talk to him about this type of situation this weekend. I was raped, which DH knows, and so we've been a bit more explicit with our kids than maybe other people are. Stressing the importance of consent, drinking, boundaries, emotions, etc. But this scenario is honestly never one that crossed my mind.

I used to think having a teen girl was more stressful, but as my son gets older, I realize that having a teen that could possibly be (or is) sexually active is the most stressful of all, regardless of gender.

A lot going on here.

For starters, if this had happened to me very early in a relationship with someone, I would be completely freaked out and would ABSOLUTELY consider it sexual assault. When you are in a long term relationship with someone, you get an understanding of what they like and what they don't like. My husband would not be okay with me waking him up this way, despite usually liking BJs as much as the next red-blooded straight male. I wouldn't like it either. Oral? When I'm sleeping? No thanks. But we've been married for years and we know that if one of us decided to experiment with something like that, it wouldn't portent anything creepy and serious. In this case, where a young man has known a young woman for a matter of weeks and had only been in a relationship for a few weeks, I would be worried that he now thinks that because we've had sex, he can do whatever he wants to me, whether I'm conscious or not.

Additionally, depending on how this got reported and the state, it could be that she told a mandated reporter and that process got triggered. Either way, it sounds like your friend's son grossly misread what was appropriate in this situation, with the result that his girlfriend felt that she'd been assaulted. That would not have happened if he had stuck to the cardinal rule which is DO NOT HAVE SEXUAL CONTACT WITH ANYONE WHO IS UNCONSCIOUS.

HOW did you achieve this level of understanding with your husband about what you like and don't like? How was the college kid supposed to guess that she wouldn't like it? Why couldn't she have just told him to stop and that be the end of it? Either she wanted out and this made it easy or he wasn't telling the whole truth.

NP. If you don't already *know* that your partner is okay with/likes a certain act, you don't just spring it on them especially when they're asleep and don't even realize that intimacy is about to begin. You talk, you suggest, you ask, or, in a moment where you're both equally engaged in intimacy together you start slowly doing whatever it is and you pay attention to signals that they're receptive or that they want you to back off. Because every person deserves to have final say over whether a sexual act happens to them or not, and if you just suddenly out of the blue start something with someone, at least some part of the physical intimacy has happened before they can give or withdraw their consent at all. If the girl woke up and said, "stop", the consent violation had already happened.

Do people really think that's okay??

[Anonymous]

I think what you should tell your son is don't talk to the police without a lawyer, and never, NEVER EVER confess to anything. This is a he said, she said, and should not go anywhere because there is simply no proof.

The situation described in the OP simply isn't criminal, and it's mind boggling that so many think it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and I have covered sex, consent, no means no, etc. with our teen son, but now we have a new scenario to teach him about.

My friend's teen son in college was arrested for sexual assault recently. She shared with me and a few other close friends what happened so that we could use her son's mistake to educate our kids. It's honestly not a scenario I'd thought to cover with him.

He met a girl at a football game and they hit it off. They exchanged info. and went on some dates. They began exclusively dating and having a sexual relationship and things were fine. They had sex one evening and she stayed the night with him. He thought it would be "cute and romantic" to wake her up the next morning with oral sex. She was angry when she woke up and told him that was not okay with her. He apologized and she said she needed to re-evaluate their relationship. No contact happened for a little over a week and then he was called in by one of the dean's because the assault was reported by her. Interviews happened and the case was turned over to the local authorities. More interviews and investigating happened and he was arrested by the local police in his college town. He was released on bond and was told to have no contact with her until the school finished their investigation process. He got called before the disciplinary committee right before school let out for winter break and was expelled from college for violating the university's integrity code.

We had the talk with our son that if a woman gives consent and during the act says she'd like to stop, you stop. If during the act she seems like she's in pain or uncomfortable but doesn't say anything, you stop. We've told him that kissing doesn't equal permission to be handsy. Agreeing to oral sex doesn't equal permission to have sex. And now we're going to talk to him about this type of situation this weekend. I was raped, which DH knows, and so we've been a bit more explicit with our kids than maybe other people are. Stressing the importance of consent, drinking, boundaries, emotions, etc. But this scenario is honestly never one that crossed my mind.

I used to think having a teen girl was more stressful, but as my son gets older, I realize that having a teen that could possibly be (or is) sexually active is the most stressful of all, regardless of gender.

A lot going on here.

For starters, if this had happened to me very early in a relationship with someone, I would be completely freaked out and would ABSOLUTELY consider it sexual assault. When you are in a long term relationship with someone, you get an understanding of what they like and what they don't like. My husband would not be okay with me waking him up this way, despite usually liking BJs as much as the next red-blooded straight male. I wouldn't like it either. Oral? When I'm sleeping? No thanks. But we've been married for years and we know that if one of us decided to experiment with something like that, it wouldn't portent anything creepy and serious. In this case, where a young man has known a young woman for a matter of weeks and had only been in a relationship for a few weeks, I would be worried that he now thinks that because we've had sex, he can do whatever he wants to me, whether I'm conscious or not.

Additionally, depending on how this got reported and the state, it could be that she told a mandated reporter and that process got triggered. Either way, it sounds like your friend's son grossly misread what was appropriate in this situation, with the result that his girlfriend felt that she'd been assaulted. That would not have happened if he had stuck to the cardinal rule which is DO NOT HAVE SEXUAL CONTACT WITH ANYONE WHO IS UNCONSCIOUS.

HOW did you achieve this level of understanding with your husband about what you like and don't like? How was the college kid supposed to guess that she wouldn't like it? Why couldn't she have just told him to stop and that be the end of it? Either she wanted out and this made it easy or he wasn't telling the whole truth.

NP. If you don't already *know* that your partner is okay with/likes a certain act, you don't just spring it on them especially when they're asleep and don't even realize that intimacy is about to begin. You talk, you suggest, you ask, or, in a moment where you're both equally engaged in intimacy together you start slowly doing whatever it is and you pay attention to signals that they're receptive or that they want you to back off. Because every person deserves to have final say over whether a sexual act happens to them or not, and if you just suddenly out of the blue start something with someone, at least some part of the physical intimacy has happened before they can give or withdraw their consent at all. If the girl woke up and said, "stop", the consent violation had already happened.

Do people really think that's okay??

How far does this garbage go???

May I hold your hand? May I kiss you? May I french kiss you? May I put my arms around you? May I touch your breast? May I squeeze your breast? May I touch your thigh? etc. etc. etc.

[Anonymous]

Tell your son not to have any sort of physical contact with anyone.


Sexual desires are only to met with toys and robots.

[Anonymous]

I am wondering what would be used as evidence. A pubic hair with both their DNA? Is she claiming the sex wasn't consensual the night before? If someone heard her screaming then that would make sense to me as having some evidence. I assume a vaginal exam isn't going to indicate forced oral sex the way it would with a rape? She was in bed with him naked by consent I assume? If she was passed out drunk I could see a case, but asleep? That sounds like she woke up and felt violated, but wasn't assaulted presuming he stopped when asked. Would he ever consider pressing charges if he woke up to a blow job he had formally consented to?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is highly unlikely that this is the whole story if there was an arrest and the young man was expelled from his college.

Is there a link to a news article about this story?

That's because this story isn't real. OP wanted to do a PSA on teaching teens about consent etc, but that was boring so she decided to post a cautionary tale of a friend like an 80s afterschool special.