New situation to talk about with my teen son...

[Anonymous]

I agree that this is one side of a story, but as you told it, I'm quite surprised that criminal charges were filed.

Remember that Julian Assange decided to have anal sex with a sleeping woman he had consensual sex with the night before. Much creepier and more violent but maybe something similarly forceful happened with your friend's son and he hasn't told her about that.

As a mother of 3 sons who are approaching their teens, I appreciate your post. While I plan to give the a lecture about consent, especially when people are under the influence, it never occurred to me to say no touching while sleeping. Thank you and good luck to your friend.

[Anonymous]

OP, just watch this with him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZwvrxVavnQ

[Anonymous]

2:25 in that video explains this completely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stupid. I almost wish that girl would experience a real no consent situation. Sorry for your friend's son.

You almost wish that a girl you don't know would be forcibly raped? You're sorry for a boy who had sexual contact with an unconscious girl? Wow.

FYI, being asleep is not the same as being unconscious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stupid. I almost wish that girl would experience a real no consent situation. Sorry for your friend's son.

You almost wish that a girl you don't know would be forcibly raped? You're sorry for a boy who had sexual contact with an unconscious girl? Wow.

FYI, being asleep is not the same as being unconscious.

Because she was able to wake up and tell him to stop touching her without her permission? You are a piece of work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, just watch this with him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZwvrxVavnQ

I tried to watch that video & received this message

"This video is restricted. It must be approved for you to view it."

Is that because I have restrictions on Youtube for my younger kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, just watch this with him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZwvrxVavnQ

I tried to watch that video & received this message

"This video is restricted. It must be approved for you to view it."

Is that because I have restrictions on Youtube for my younger kids?

Perhaps. I had no problem watching it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Stupid. I almost wish that girl would experience a real no consent situation. Sorry for your friend's son.

Whoa! Out of line!

[Anonymous]

You might also want to teach him how to recognize a crazy girl. Nonsense - in this case the pendulum has swung too far and it takes away from credible cases.

[Anonymous]

I'm wondering if they were drunk the night before when they had sex. Just seems like there is another side to this story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and I have covered sex, consent, no means no, etc. with our teen son, but now we have a new scenario to teach him about.

My friend's teen son in college was arrested for sexual assault recently. She shared with me and a few other close friends what happened so that we could use her son's mistake to educate our kids. It's honestly not a scenario I'd thought to cover with him.

He met a girl at a football game and they hit it off. They exchanged info. and went on some dates. They began exclusively dating and having a sexual relationship and things were fine. They had sex one evening and she stayed the night with him. He thought it would be "cute and romantic" to wake her up the next morning with oral sex. She was angry when she woke up and told him that was not okay with her. He apologized and she said she needed to re-evaluate their relationship. No contact happened for a little over a week and then he was called in by one of the dean's because the assault was reported by her. Interviews happened and the case was turned over to the local authorities. More interviews and investigating happened and he was arrested by the local police in his college town. He was released on bond and was told to have no contact with her until the school finished their investigation process. He got called before the disciplinary committee right before school let out for winter break and was expelled from college for violating the university's integrity code.

We had the talk with our son that if a woman gives consent and during the act says she'd like to stop, you stop. If during the act she seems like she's in pain or uncomfortable but doesn't say anything, you stop. We've told him that kissing doesn't equal permission to be handsy. Agreeing to oral sex doesn't equal permission to have sex. And now we're going to talk to him about this type of situation this weekend. I was raped, which DH knows, and so we've been a bit more explicit with our kids than maybe other people are. Stressing the importance of consent, drinking, boundaries, emotions, etc. But this scenario is honestly never one that crossed my mind.

I used to think having a teen girl was more stressful, but as my son gets older, I realize that having a teen that could possibly be (or is) sexually active is the most stressful of all, regardless of gender.

A lot going on here.

For starters, if this had happened to me very early in a relationship with someone, I would be completely freaked out and would ABSOLUTELY consider it sexual assault. When you are in a long term relationship with someone, you get an understanding of what they like and what they don't like. My husband would not be okay with me waking him up this way, despite usually liking BJs as much as the next red-blooded straight male. I wouldn't like it either. Oral? When I'm sleeping? No thanks. But we've been married for years and we know that if one of us decided to experiment with something like that, it wouldn't portent anything creepy and serious. In this case, where a young man has known a young woman for a matter of weeks and had only been in a relationship for a few weeks, I would be worried that he now thinks that because we've had sex, he can do whatever he wants to me, whether I'm conscious or not.

Additionally, depending on how this got reported and the state, it could be that she told a mandated reporter and that process got triggered. Either way, it sounds like your friend's son grossly misread what was appropriate in this situation, with the result that his girlfriend felt that she'd been assaulted. That would not have happened if he had stuck to the cardinal rule which is DO NOT HAVE SEXUAL CONTACT WITH ANYONE WHO IS UNCONSCIOUS.

HOW did you achieve this level of understanding with your husband about what you like and don't like? How was the college kid supposed to guess that she wouldn't like it? Why couldn't she have just told him to stop and that be the end of it? Either she wanted out and this made it easy or he wasn't telling the whole truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm wondering if they were drunk the night before when they had sex. Just seems like there is another side to this story.

There must be more than what has been reported. According to this story, he did something, she woke up and said stop, and he stopped. Perhaps, he didn't really stop or maybe it was more than just oral sex. Maybe she was drunk or impaired and passed out only to wake up and find him crawling all over her (this has happened to so many women).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stupid. I almost wish that girl would experience a real no consent situation. Sorry for your friend's son.

You almost wish that a girl you don't know would be forcibly raped? You're sorry for a boy who had sexual contact with an unconscious girl? Wow.

FYI, being asleep is not the same as being unconscious.

Because she was able to wake up and tell him to stop touching her without her permission? You are a piece of work.

New person. No, because initiating sexual activity with a sleeping partner is playful. Initiating sexual activity with an unconscious partner is sickening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:HOW did you achieve this level of understanding with your husband about what you like and don't like? How was the college kid supposed to guess that she wouldn't like it? Why couldn't she have just told him to stop and that be the end of it? Either she wanted out and this made it easy or he wasn't telling the whole truth.

How did my husband and I learn what is and is not okay with us? Being together for years and having sex thousands of times. Plus, you know, TALKING about it. Trust takes time to be built. If my husband did what this kid did (as described by the OP), I wouldn't be happy about it, but the history we have together and the trust that we have between us would make me more likely to talk to him about it and less likely to report him for sexual assault.

The college kid should err on the side of not having sexual contact with someone he barely knows unless she is a) awake, b) actively participating and consenting to the activity, and c) sober.

I don't know the girl, so I don't know why she didn't just tell him to stop and let it go. It sounds like a scary experience for a young girl to have and "...then I woke up and he was going down on me" doesn't really sound like something with a lot of nuance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stupid. I almost wish that girl would experience a real no consent situation. Sorry for your friend's son.

You almost wish that a girl you don't know would be forcibly raped? You're sorry for a boy who had sexual contact with an unconscious girl? Wow.

FYI, being asleep is not the same as being unconscious.

Because she was able to wake up and tell him to stop touching her without her permission? You are a piece of work.

New person. No, because initiating sexual activity with a sleeping partner is playful. Initiating sexual activity with an unconscious partner is sickening.

Maybe you think it's playful. We're not talking about a kiss on the neck. He was giving her oral. That's skipping how many bases??