11th grade son won't discuss college

[Anonymous]

Agree with the others, yes this is a complicated and expensive process, but even if you are fortunate enough to be able to pay for it, it is still a decision that the student needs to identify and pursue. The parents doing it for them does nothing for their ownership of the choice.

And yes, when I was 17 and making these decisions, I went on the visits by myself (whether by train or plane) and handled all of the applications and financials.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree with the others, yes this is a complicated and expensive process, but even if you are fortunate enough to be able to pay for it, it is still a decision that the student needs to identify and pursue. The parents doing it for them does nothing for their ownership of the choice.

And yes, when I was 17 and making these decisions, I went on the visits by myself (whether by train or plane) and handled all of the applications and financials.

If only my DS were anywhere near this organized! Sigh!

[Anonymous]

My own DC is clearly not as competent as PP and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Parents can certainly help to narrow down the vast array of college choices to a more manageable handful -- my kid can take it from there in terms of "choosing" (assuming hopefully that there are multiple acceptances). I don't think parental input will diminish DC's "ownership" of college choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But PPs make it sound like it's impossible for any kid to manage it themselves these days. I don't buy it.

You were able to figure out how you'd finance the cost of a $240,000 education by yourself at 17? That's really impressive, but very unusual.

Obviously tuition wasn't that much back then (approx $20/yr). But I did the legwork to find and apply to various scholarships/grants (counselor helped me with leads). I ended up with federal grants and loans beyond the scholarships and my parent's contribution. It broke down to approx 1/3 parents, 1/3 scholarships/grants, 1/3 loans. And I got 80% of grad school covered by grants (primarily one corporate grant). Took me 10 years to pay off the loans. I also worked over summers and during the school year for spending money.

Anyway, that just one aspect of college planning/applications.

If you never give your kid the chance to even TRY to manage it then you'll never know if they are capable.

And, even more important -- your kid won't know if s/he is capable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You all are insane. If you have to do this much prep work FOR your kids for them to even think about applying for college, then are you going to be prepared to write their term papers too? Sign them up for their classes? My god, if they can't take the initiative to get the process started on their own, then you tell them that starting in September after graduation, rent will be $750 a month and they will be expected to chip in for food, gas, car insurance etc.

No wonder we have so much support for Trump. Insane.

I think the current college application process is what's insane. In pre-ranking days when kids were only applying to a few colleges, things were more manageable for everyone. Today, kids who apply to less than 10 feel like they still might not get in. The pressure to have top stats, know what you want to study and go to a name college or your life will be over is unrelenting. That's overwhelming to me as an adult. I can't imagine what it feels like to an 18-year-old.

It is true that is it different than it was in the 50's, 70's and 80's, but the fact remains, if parents are this involved with the process, it doesn't bode will for the motivation and independence/ownership of the student. We are the helicopter generation, and need to learn when to step WAY back.

I'm sorry if I am going to spend 40-60K a year for school, I will have a say. My DD picked all her HS classes and made lists of schools she was interested in, but HER PARENTS got to veto schools as well. We were not going to pay for schools which advertised that they are "right next to the beach" or where it takes most kids 6 years to graduate. Just not a good investment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op, it is a very tough time. The kids really do not know much about the colleges (except that they are not getting into the top ones -- they get THAT message) then it looks like there are thousands of colleges to choose from, and where to start? But really, for most people, with a little thought, you realize that there are not thousands of colleges that meat your needs. For example, maybe you can't (like most people) afford the privates. That cuts it right down to the State colleges, of which there are a limited number. The kids look down on the State colleges because teens are natural snobs, so that leaves them thinking: where will I go that is cool? But in reality, most are going to State, or where their parents went. It is very stressful.
If you are living at all comfortably in the DC area, you do not qualify for FA,

This post sums up where we are right now with our junior. It's a bummer.

[Anonymous]

Not everyone needs are unique. Where are his friends going?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, it is a very tough time. The kids really do not know much about the colleges (except that they are not getting into the top ones -- they get THAT message) then it looks like there are thousands of colleges to choose from, and where to start? But really, for most people, with a little thought, you realize that there are not thousands of colleges that meat your needs. For example, maybe you can't (like most people) afford the privates. That cuts it right down to the State colleges, of which there are a limited number. The kids look down on the State colleges because teens are natural snobs, so that leaves them thinking: where will I go that is cool? But in reality, most are going to State, or where their parents went. It is very stressful.
If you are living at all comfortably in the DC area, you do not qualify for FA,

This post sums up where we are right now with our junior. It's a bummer.

Why isn't the logical response to this situation to tell DC that the best state school s/he can get into is the default. If that's not where DC wants to go, s/he needs to find (and get into) either a school that is worth the extra $ (and both how many extra $ the parents are willing/able to spend and what counts as "worth it" need to be made explicit upfront) or an equally good school that costs no more than the state school (e.g. because of FA or merit money). That should narrow the search quickly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You all are insane. If you have to do this much prep work FOR your kids for them to even think about applying for college, then are you going to be prepared to write their term papers too? Sign them up for their classes? My god, if they can't take the initiative to get the process started on their own, then you tell them that starting in September after graduation, rent will be $750 a month and they will be expected to chip in for food, gas, car insurance etc.

No wonder we have so much support for Trump. Insane.

Do you have any teenagers?

My senior in high school manages all his homework without input from me and has for many years. He has a volunteer gig 2 days per week that he manages all on his own, including travel to and from via city bus. He won the "volunteer of the year" award from this organization last year. He has a job two days a week that he also manages on his own, including travel to and from via bike. He is involved with a few student clubs. With all these obligations, he manages his own calendar, no input from me whatsoever. He has a 3.8 UW/4.1 W GPA, excellent references from teachers and bosses. He wrote his college essays on his own, with minimal input from others, and easily met deadlines during the process, including submitting some applications early. He was accepted everywhere he applied and award substantial merit aid at several schools.

But fall of his junior year, he was completely flummoxed by the college process, had no idea what he wanted in a school, what he should want in a school, or how to tell whether schools had what he wanted even if he did know. Even when he began to articulate what he thought he wanted, he had no idea how to rank order those desires. Was it more important to be in an urban area or to be at a small school? Etc. I am a PP who took charge of the process by doing my own thinking about what I thought he would want, identifying schools that offered those things, and drawing up a list of about 30 schools, and then talking to him about why I thought they were good options for him, taking him to visiting some, helping to refine the list, etc. His need for direction, and my involvement in the process, said/says absolutely nothing about his interest in college, his readiness for it, or his ability to handle his own affairs.

I wonder if you considered helping your son "take charge of the process", rather than doing so yourself. Once he started to -- in your words -- "articulate what he thought he wanted," you might have taken that opportunity to coach him along, rather than taking over and making a list yourself. By asking him questions -- and not supplying the answers -- you might have helped him take the lead in shaping his own destiny. And you might have learned that he was capable of doing this himself. As a teacher and parent of teens and young adults, I've found that they know themselves much better than we give them credit for.

Yes, given his great success all on his own, in school, at his job, in his volunteer work, it's obvious that I've done a terrible job of raising him to be capable and confident. I clearly have no idea what I am doing. (P.S., DH is a high school teacher, so knows plenty about what kids are capable of.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, it is a very tough time. The kids really do not know much about the colleges (except that they are not getting into the top ones -- they get THAT message) then it looks like there are thousands of colleges to choose from, and where to start? But really, for most people, with a little thought, you realize that there are not thousands of colleges that meat your needs. For example, maybe you can't (like most people) afford the privates. That cuts it right down to the State colleges, of which there are a limited number. The kids look down on the State colleges because teens are natural snobs, so that leaves them thinking: where will I go that is cool? But in reality, most are going to State, or where their parents went. It is very stressful.
If you are living at all comfortably in the DC area, you do not qualify for FA,

This post sums up where we are right now with our junior. It's a bummer.

Why isn't the logical response to this situation to tell DC that the best state school s/he can get into is the default. If that's not where DC wants to go, s/he needs to find (and get into) either a school that is worth the extra $ (and both how many extra $ the parents are willing/able to spend and what counts as "worth it" need to be made explicit upfront) or an equally good school that costs no more than the state school (e.g. because of FA or merit money). That should narrow the search quickly.

Well, ITA about the default being the state school, but I think you are fooling yourself if you think the average 16-year-old knows how to identify schools that might cost no more than state school. I can't tell you the number of educated parents I talk to who haven't the foggiest idea how financial aid works, what the difference is between merit aid and FA, which colleges offer merit and which don't, which schools offer enough merit aid to bring the cost near to in-state publics, and what kind of stats kids need to get merit at particular schools. I can count the college-admissions-savvy adults I know on just a few hands. You really think a junior in high school is likely to master this? And you want to just let them flounder about, maybe apply to a bunch of schools that a knowledgeable person could predict won't be affordable for that family, and just let the chips fall where they may? What would be the point of this exercise? If your teenager needs dental work, do you turn them loose with the phone book and the internet and let them figure out which dentists are any good and which are covered by your insurance and hope they pick well? If they ask for or need help picking a dentist, does that mean they don't really want their teeth fixed or that they're not ready for it?

[Anonymous]

I didn't say you couldn't help DC, just that the inquiry could be focussed in a way that made it more manageable. And re merit aid, I think that's one where college confidential has good info. And, presumably, there's a college counselor in the mix.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didn't say you couldn't help DC, just that the inquiry could be focussed in a way that made it more manageable. And re merit aid, I think that's one where college confidential has good info. And, presumably, there's a college counselor in the mix.

This reveals clearly that you are one of the many who knows little about the college admissions process. There is little useful advice about merit aid coming out of public school counseling offices. They are too busy worrying about the kids who might not have money to go to college at all to spend much time thinking about the "problem" of merit aid for a kid with a HHI that is too high to qualify for financial aid.

Your comment also raises the questions of why it would be okay for a student to rely on a college counselor for advice and direction but not on a parent.

[Anonymous]

My kid just went through the college admissions process and got her first choice so, in fact, I've BTDT and very recently. Perhaps you're so hostile and off-base because you're assuming I'm some other poster. 21:35 was my first post in this thread and my point was, rather than taking on the daunting task of sorting through thousands of colleges to find the one your DC considers coolest, it would make sense to treat accessible state schools as a benchmark and look at private or OOS options only if they offer more bang for the buck (however you define that).

College counselors vary, of course -- as do the challenges they face at different schools, but they often have access to info parents lack (e.g. track record of admissions from the particular HS at various colleges).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't say you couldn't help DC, just that the inquiry could be focussed in a way that made it more manageable. And re merit aid, I think that's one where college confidential has good info. And, presumably, there's a college counselor in the mix.

This reveals clearly that you are one of the many who knows little about the college admissions process. There is little useful advice about merit aid coming out of public school counseling offices. They are too busy worrying about the kids who might not have money to go to college at all to spend much time thinking about the "problem" of merit aid for a kid with a HHI that is too high to qualify for financial aid.

Your comment also raises the questions of why it would be okay for a student to rely on a college counselor for advice and direction but not on a parent.

This is my question also to those people who seem to think that parents shouldn't be involved in helping their children with the college selection process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid just went through the college admissions process and got her first choice so, in fact, I've BTDT and very recently. Perhaps you're so hostile and off-base because you're assuming I'm some other poster. 21:35 was my first post in this thread and my point was, rather than taking on the daunting task of sorting through thousands of colleges to find the one your DC considers coolest, it would make sense to treat accessible state schools as a benchmark and look at private or OOS options only if they offer more bang for the buck (however you define that).

College counselors vary, of course -- as do the challenges they face at different schools, but they often have access to info parents lack (e.g. track record of admissions from the particular HS at various colleges).

This info is available to parents and students at most large area public schools via Naviance.