Catholic Confirmed, but non-believer

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:No -- not lumping them in -- it's easy to distinguish between rapists, supporters of rapists and bystanders. It's hard to understand why the bystanders would continute to stand by, not to mention actively support the putative organization, when they could walk away and meet their spiritual needs elsewhere without the sleaze factor

And that's your second logical fallacy. You keep asserting the PP you're sparring with is "standing by" or "actively supporting", the rapists. You're lying, because you know that PP doesn't "actively support" the rapists. Bigots like you depersonalize the objects of their bigotry.

Third of your logical fallacies: wouldn't working for change from within be as, or more, effective than "walking away"?

So basically you're relying on sleazy lies to lump PP in with the rapists. Of course, that's what bigots and fascists do.... You're playing straight from the bigot playbook.

No logical fallacy: The original reads "actively support the putative organization," not the rapists. All Catholics who are pledging members of the church are supporting the organization, irrespective of their view of rapist priests.

You understand that it's a huge organization, right? That there are many good aspects along with the bad.

Your all-or-nothing demands are sleazy and illogical. Would you demand all Muslims abandon their faith because they read the same holy book as ISIS? Would you demand that moderate Republicans leave their party because of Trump (although you sound like a Trump supporter, so maybe that's a bad example). Would you demand Patriots fans abandon the team because of Brady? Of course not, that would be stupid. Blaming moderate Muslims for ISIS and moderate Republicans for Trump is flat-out stupid. Further, you want the moderate Muslims and Republicans to stay in their faith and party, respectively, to work for change.

Stop being deliberately obtuse.

Straw men and False analogies - and the one about Trump is especially off because moderate republicans have not supported Trump from the beginning and are now actively repudiating him and are quite aware (if you read the conservative columnists) that trump could ruin the party.

As for the Catholic church -- the good of the church (e.g., spirituality, traditions, music, ritual) could continue once it was rid of all the corrupt leaders who participated in some way in the pedophilia scandal and after it made retribution to all the children who were abused. That seems only fair and like soemthing an organziation based on the love of Jesus would want to do.

And you'd allow your child to enter the home of a pedophile who's hosting a playdate?

It's the same situation. The church covered up child rape. So while YOUR parish may have been "clean," it could have easily been one to absorb a sick fuck who was being passed around. Do you honestly think these priests overseeing a parish didn't know what was going on?

Here's one excerpt from an LA Times article - http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/10/opinion/la-oe-dantonio-catholic-priest-molestations-20130210

One of the earliest cases to draw nationwide attention involved Gilbert Gauthe, a priest who raped dozens of boys in rural Louisiana. By 1984, when Gauthe was indicted on 34 counts of sex crimes against children, church officials had been aware he was abusing children for at least a decade. But instead of reporting his crimes, they transferred him to another parish, where he continued to have sex with the children in his charge. He was stopped only after a boy he raped wound up in the hospital due to his injuries.

How do you live with yourselves with this information now out in the open?

And again I ask, Would you STILL be faithful to the church if YOUR child had been raped? and in the case above, sent to the hospital b/c he was raped so badly?

You'd STILL thank your God and your Jesus for being your protectors?

doubtful . . .

[Anonymous]

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Bigot: bigotplay
noun big·ot \?bi-g?t\
Simple Definition of bigot
Popularity: Top 1% of lookups
: a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person; especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)

That would be you, PP. You make sweeping generalizations about a whole group of people. Says more about your own sickness than about the PP you're attacking.

Signed, not a Catholic myself

?? pp provided data, not generalizations.

BS, and don't be deliberately obtuse.

You're blinded by your hatred. So blinded that you can't distinguish the bad from the charity and good her church also performs in the world. So blinded that you can't distinguish between the offending priests and the much greater body of individual Catholic Church members like PP.

You embody the very definition of bigotry. You are indeed making sweeping generalizations, about PP and all the other members of her church.

Your sort of blind hatred has been responsible for much evil in the world, too. Nobody is excusing those several thousand priests. But you need to stop indulging your need to spew hate. Instead you need to reflect on the terrible things that blind hatreds like yours have wreaked in the world.

Freud called this projection

Freud wouldn't have called that particular post projection. As a Jew, he would have recognized the anti-Catholic bigot's obvious capacity for fascism and hate crimes.

As a physician and psychoanalyst, Freud would be careful not to diagnose criminal behavior over the internet (had there been an internet).

I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school from K-12. For whatever reason, when you call out the RCC for bad behavior, you get called a bigot.

No, you get called that because you lump all the good Catholics together with the bad priests, you seem rabid, and every time you post we have to wipe the spittle off our screens.

Try not to let someone have that kind of effect on you. It's not good for the soul. Think of the loving grace of god and the precious, centuries-old traditions of the church that Jesus himself asked his diciple Peter to build and find peace knowing that you're blessed to be a part of it.

Tell that to the child who was repeatedly raped by a priest. Was RAPE good for his soul? Did Jesus swoop down from the heavens to prevent that child from being brutally raped by a priest?

The church is filled with hypocritical people like you who worship fairy tales over lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Bigot: bigotplay
noun big·ot \?bi-g?t\
Simple Definition of bigot
Popularity: Top 1% of lookups
: a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person; especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)

That would be you, PP. You make sweeping generalizations about a whole group of people. Says more about your own sickness than about the PP you're attacking.

Signed, not a Catholic myself

?? pp provided data, not generalizations.

BS, and don't be deliberately obtuse.

You're blinded by your hatred. So blinded that you can't distinguish the bad from the charity and good her church also performs in the world. So blinded that you can't distinguish between the offending priests and the much greater body of individual Catholic Church members like PP.

You embody the very definition of bigotry. You are indeed making sweeping generalizations, about PP and all the other members of her church.

Your sort of blind hatred has been responsible for much evil in the world, too. Nobody is excusing those several thousand priests. But you need to stop indulging your need to spew hate. Instead you need to reflect on the terrible things that blind hatreds like yours have wreaked in the world.

Freud called this projection

Freud wouldn't have called that particular post projection. As a Jew, he would have recognized the anti-Catholic bigot's obvious capacity for fascism and hate crimes.

As a physician and psychoanalyst, Freud would be careful not to diagnose criminal behavior over the internet (had there been an internet).

I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school from K-12. For whatever reason, when you call out the RCC for bad behavior, you get called a bigot.

No, you get called that because you lump all the good Catholics together with the bad priests, you seem rabid, and every time you post we have to wipe the spittle off our screens.

Try not to let someone have that kind of effect on you. It's not good for the soul. Think of the loving grace of god and the precious, centuries-old traditions of the church that Jesus himself asked his diciple Peter to build and find peace knowing that you're blessed to be a part of it.

Tell that to the child who was repeatedly raped by a priest. Was RAPE good for his soul? Did Jesus swoop down from the heavens to prevent that child from being brutally raped by a priest?

The church is filled with hypocritical people like you who worship fairy tales over lives.

Christians believe that Jesus was there to comfort the boy afterwards

[Anonymous]

It just doesn't make any sense what you are explaining.
If that's true across the board in every situation then when a teacher molests a child all schools have to shut down.
Every principal and every other teacher is guilty.
Parents who continue to send their child to school are saying they think its ok.
Lawmakers who pass bills to fund these schools are guilty.
And on and on.

You can hate Catholics (and all Christians for that matter) but to keep railing on this (and look up about rape and the NYC synagogues while you're at it) just isn't making the point you think it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Bigot: bigotplay
noun big·ot \?bi-g?t\
Simple Definition of bigot
Popularity: Top 1% of lookups
: a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person; especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)

That would be you, PP. You make sweeping generalizations about a whole group of people. Says more about your own sickness than about the PP you're attacking.

Signed, not a Catholic myself

?? pp provided data, not generalizations.

BS, and don't be deliberately obtuse.

You're blinded by your hatred. So blinded that you can't distinguish the bad from the charity and good her church also performs in the world. So blinded that you can't distinguish between the offending priests and the much greater body of individual Catholic Church members like PP.

You embody the very definition of bigotry. You are indeed making sweeping generalizations, about PP and all the other members of her church.

Your sort of blind hatred has been responsible for much evil in the world, too. Nobody is excusing those several thousand priests. But you need to stop indulging your need to spew hate. Instead you need to reflect on the terrible things that blind hatreds like yours have wreaked in the world.

Freud called this projection

Freud wouldn't have called that particular post projection. As a Jew, he would have recognized the anti-Catholic bigot's obvious capacity for fascism and hate crimes.

As a physician and psychoanalyst, Freud would be careful not to diagnose criminal behavior over the internet (had there been an internet).

I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school from K-12. For whatever reason, when you call out the RCC for bad behavior, you get called a bigot.

No, you get called that because you lump all the good Catholics together with the bad priests, you seem rabid, and every time you post we have to wipe the spittle off our screens.

Try not to let someone have that kind of effect on you. It's not good for the soul. Think of the loving grace of god and the precious, centuries-old traditions of the church that Jesus himself asked his diciple Peter to build and find peace knowing that you're blessed to be a part of it.

Tell that to the child who was repeatedly raped by a priest. Was RAPE good for his soul? Did Jesus swoop down from the heavens to prevent that child from being brutally raped by a priest?

The church is filled with hypocritical people like you who worship fairy tales over lives.

Christians believe that Jesus was there to comfort the boy afterwards

right

b/c why bother being proactive in an effort to prevent the abuse when you can be reactive by saying, "It will be OK. Just remember to love your neighbor."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It just doesn't make any sense what you are explaining.
If that's true across the board in every situation then when a teacher molests a child all schools have to shut down.
Every principal and every other teacher is guilty.
Parents who continue to send their child to school are saying they think its ok.
Lawmakers who pass bills to fund these schools are guilty.
And on and on.

You can hate Catholics (and all Christians for that matter) but to keep railing on this (and look up about rape and the NYC synagogues while you're at it) just isn't making the point you think it is.

But schools don't protect such teachers and send them on to other schools to rape again, meaning that the principal and superintendent, with full knowledge of the teacher's crime, do nothing to protect that boy or other students.

See the difference?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It just doesn't make any sense what you are explaining.
If that's true across the board in every situation then when a teacher molests a child all schools have to shut down.
Every principal and every other teacher is guilty.
Parents who continue to send their child to school are saying they think its ok.
Lawmakers who pass bills to fund these schools are guilty.
And on and on.

You can hate Catholics (and all Christians for that matter) but to keep railing on this (and look up about rape and the NYC synagogues while you're at it) just isn't making the point you think it is.

But schools don't protect such teachers and send them on to other schools to rape again, meaning that the principal and superintendent, with full knowledge of the teacher's crime, do nothing to protect that boy or other students.

See the difference?

I don't "hate" Catholics. I hate the fact that they're so closed-minded, refusing to see beyond their own little protective cocoon. as long as it doesn't affect them, right? They'll just keep on tithing.

FWIW, I spent years in Catholic schools. So I know the church. And to praise the church for its "community" is disturbing. Furthermore, I admitted that there were indeed pedophiles in school systems. teachers, coaches, paras, volunteers - not denying that

Forest Oak in Mo Co had its own scandal when the principal was accused of covering up a sex scandal. It happens. But it's not a "ring" of abuse. Refer to the article below where priests were sent to remote areas.

These are YOUR people who step in for God.


http://www.globalpost.com/article/6650841/2015/09/16/us-priests-accused-sex-abusive-get-second-chance-relocating-south-america
US priests accused of sex abuse get a second chance by relocating to South America

RIO DE JANEIRO, Brazil — The Catholic Church has allowed priests accused of sexually abusing children in the United States and Europe to relocate to poor parishes in South America, a yearlong GlobalPost investigation has found.

Reporters confronted five accused priests in as many countries: Paraguay, Ecuador, Colombia, Brazil and Peru. One priest who relocated to a poor parish in Peru admitted on camera to molesting a 13-year-old boy while working in the Jackson, Mississippi diocese. Another is currently under investigation in Brazil after allegations arose that he abused disadvantaged children living in an orphanage he founded there.

. . .

Victim advocates say that relocating priests to poorer parishes overseas is the church’s latest strategy for protecting its reputation.

This is the church's way of "spreading the good news," eh?

[Anonymous]

If the church really wanted to take care of pedophile priests while not harming children, it could reassign such priests (after treatment) to a situation where children were not involved - an administrative position, a monastery, whatever. But to put them where they have access to and authority over children shows total disregard for the safety of the children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It just doesn't make any sense what you are explaining.
If that's true across the board in every situation then when a teacher molests a child all schools have to shut down.
Every principal and every other teacher is guilty.
Parents who continue to send their child to school are saying they think its ok.
Lawmakers who pass bills to fund these schools are guilty.
And on and on.

You can hate Catholics (and all Christians for that matter) but to keep railing on this (and look up about rape and the NYC synagogues while you're at it) just isn't making the point you think it is.

But schools don't protect such teachers and send them on to other schools to rape again, meaning that the principal and superintendent, with full knowledge of the teacher's crime, do nothing to protect that boy or other students.

See the difference?

How in the world do you know this to be true?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It just doesn't make any sense what you are explaining.
If that's true across the board in every situation then when a teacher molests a child all schools have to shut down.
Every principal and every other teacher is guilty.
Parents who continue to send their child to school are saying they think its ok.
Lawmakers who pass bills to fund these schools are guilty.
And on and on.

You can hate Catholics (and all Christians for that matter) but to keep railing on this (and look up about rape and the NYC synagogues while you're at it) just isn't making the point you think it is.

Your railing is making a point, however -- that you can convince yourself of false and weak arguments to justify your continued allegiance to a corrupt institution.

[Anonymous]

But again, please tell me how any of this means that my little 90 year old Italian grandmother in New Jersey who takes over an hour every day to get to morning mass with her walker, down the same street she has walked since she was a little girl, needs to leave the church inmediately. Or is complicit with this. Or any of the billion plus Catholics around the world that have nothing to do with it.

And again explain to me, since it was admitted above that schools have covered up abuse (and no one wanted to answer why there is no fury against Jewish community in NYC with the same type of crime), why you all haven't pulled your children out of public schools in protest?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It just doesn't make any sense what you are explaining.
If that's true across the board in every situation then when a teacher molests a child all schools have to shut down.
Every principal and every other teacher is guilty.
Parents who continue to send their child to school are saying they think its ok.
Lawmakers who pass bills to fund these schools are guilty.
And on and on.

You can hate Catholics (and all Christians for that matter) but to keep railing on this (and look up about rape and the NYC synagogues while you're at it) just isn't making the point you think it is.

Your railing is making a point, however -- that you can convince yourself of false and weak arguments to justify your continued allegiance to a corrupt institution.

I don't believe them to be false and weak and you haven't compelled anyone to think otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Read about the 2012 Orthodox Jew scandal and start a thread about that. Enough with the Catholic hate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It just doesn't make any sense what you are explaining.
If that's true across the board in every situation then when a teacher molests a child all schools have to shut down.
Every principal and every other teacher is guilty.
Parents who continue to send their child to school are saying they think its ok.
Lawmakers who pass bills to fund these schools are guilty.
And on and on.

You can hate Catholics (and all Christians for that matter) but to keep railing on this (and look up about rape and the NYC synagogues while you're at it) just isn't making the point you think it is.

Your railing is making a point, however -- that you can convince yourself of false and weak arguments to justify your continued allegiance to a corrupt institution.

Well, 1.2 billion Catholics agree with me world wide so I'm okay that you see things differently. Merry Christmas

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It just doesn't make any sense what you are explaining.
If that's true across the board in every situation then when a teacher molests a child all schools have to shut down.
Every principal and every other teacher is guilty.
Parents who continue to send their child to school are saying they think its ok.
Lawmakers who pass bills to fund these schools are guilty.
And on and on.

You can hate Catholics (and all Christians for that matter) but to keep railing on this (and look up about rape and the NYC synagogues while you're at it) just isn't making the point you think it is.

But schools don't protect such teachers and send them on to other schools to rape again, meaning that the principal and superintendent, with full knowledge of the teacher's crime, do nothing to protect that boy or other students.

See the difference?

How in the world do you know this to be true?

Because when a teacher is accused they are suspended and enter the criminal justice system. Their name is publicized, acessible through crime records and if they are guilty, they are punished according to the law. The same goes for higher-up who would cover for them, though I haven't heard of any cases of that.

Have you? Do you know about a massive cover-up of child molestation in schools, starting with a teacher and going right up through the principal, to the superintendent, to the secretary of education? If so, would that justify what the Catholic church has done in your view?