Am I wrong?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, the HHI would give a good idea of whether or not helping them is a reasonable request.

Based on the fact you won't give the HHI, I'm going to assume it is sizable.

If you are making under $100K, no, there's no way you can support them if you living in the DC metro.

If, your household income is over $250K, then yes, you should be able to manage some sort of monthly allowance.

Another suggestion would be for them to sell all of the current property they own and move to a condo where they would not need to do to outside maintenance and, depending on where you buy, it might be better for you and your husband to buy the condo and put it in your name. You could cover the HOA fees and they would essentially not have rent.

Could they live on the social security benefits if they drastically cut their living expenses?

There's too many unknown factors in what you've provided to be able to give any practical advice.

While I get you think you shouldn't have to pay anything, I'm not sure this viewpoint is going to get you far in your relationship with your husband.

OP here - Should I buy them a palace and some butlers too? Maybe I should quit my job to wait on them hand and foot. Thanks for posting, but this is ridiculous.

You can buy an inexpensive condo depending on where it's located. Again, there's not enough info to provide helpful info.

I'm going to have say that the more you respond the more obvious it is you are a bitter person with not much generosity of spirit.

Good luck.

OP here - Ah, another lifelong mooch. The way you expertly allocated my income to all sorts of allowances for my in laws tells me you have practice at earmarking others' funds. No doubt you think the hardworking people of the world are just awful when we don't let your ilk reach into our pocketbooks.

I was much more sympathetic to your position until you started replying. You do sound kinda bitchy over and above your legitimate concerns.

My own situation has some things in common. DH and I are both immigrants and now make decent money. DHs parents have made several disastrous decisions that had a major impact on their ability to provide to themselves. They are used to living above their means (not extravagantly but consistently above what they actually can afford), have long ago squandered everything they have inherited, favor their other son, deny to our faces we gave them money we sent just a few months before, totally ignore our advice and protestations and are unrepentant in respect to their decisions and lifestyle. Yet, they are 65 and 70 and love their grandchildren (my children) to death. I had several screaming fights with my MIL but we made up.

We can afford to give them some money though my husband doesn't want to (he makes about 3 times more than I do). But I feel a bit sorry for them and I don't think it's a good example for my kids that they get various extras while their own grandparents are struggling (for which they are 100% responsible but still...). So I promised to give them money for a new car (which due to aforementioned disastrous decisions is an absolute necessity for them) and, since my husband objects, will likely fund that from my personal account. This is not the first time I give them money... but honestly, it makes me feel better about myself and I think it's good for the kids. The fact that they love my kids so much is the bottom line for me. My older daughter is quite willing to forfeit her own gifts so that we can send money to grandma. I think it's a good lesson in priorities. To be sure we are not sending them large sums - they also live abroad where many things are cheaper. So, no, I wouldn't endanger my own livelihood because of them.

Screaming fights with your MIL (no respect for your elders when you're not in the mood, eh?), taking from your kids, giving money behind DH's back just to make yourself feel good, enabling bad decisions. Oy, you are what we call a real shmendrik. You need to be asking for advice, not giving it.

i am not giving money behind my DH's back. he knows about it.

i don't think i actually gave any advice to OP but my life is pretty good. it's ok to give, really, even to those who haven't earned it by being perfect like you.

Like I said, you are a shmendrik. Your situation is a mess and you are too thick to see it. You are robbing your children to satisfy your ego with your in laws. Shuffling about money you don't have and behaving in all sorts of stupid ways. Yuck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Realistically, will your MIL have to be your FIL's caregiver and spend many hours a week on that? I don't know how much she can really work if, say, she has to drive him to appointments, etc.

"His father has been diagnosed with a heart condition that means he will have to scale his hours back considerably."

It doesn't sound like he's at death's door and can work or collect disability.

MIL needs to work more than 15 hrs a week before they should expect help.

OP here - he has been put on a lot of medication and I believe he is being evaluated for some kind of bypass procedure. He is very fit and in shape from years of construction, but he is a heavy, three or four pack a day smoker, and I think that will affect his recovery.

So he smokes 3-4 packs a day?!? Probably why he needs a bypass even though he is fit. Irresponsible all the way around... Your MIL is a princess. She needs to work more hours.

OP here - yes, he is a super heavy smoker who had not been to the doctor in years until his wheezing and shortness of breath and chest pain became unbearable. There are many, many poor decisions at play in my in laws' lives. I really can't begin to detail just how poor their judgment is.

So your in-laws cannot take care of themselves financially, health-wise, etc. Sounds like they need a mommy and daddy to take care of them.

You already have young children to take care of... You can help if you wish but at this point, they sound like a lost cause.

Tell your husband that while you will lend emotional support, the only financial support you are comfortable giving is with funds left over from taking care of your own family, including vacations, cars, etc. since you have worked hard to have the lifestyle you have.

Just keep in mind that your in-laws will not be grateful for any help you give bc they are irresponsible, entitled spoiled brats at heart even if they are old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, the HHI would give a good idea of whether or not helping them is a reasonable request.

Based on the fact you won't give the HHI, I'm going to assume it is sizable.

If you are making under $100K, no, there's no way you can support them if you living in the DC metro.

If, your household income is over $250K, then yes, you should be able to manage some sort of monthly allowance.

Another suggestion would be for them to sell all of the current property they own and move to a condo where they would not need to do to outside maintenance and, depending on where you buy, it might be better for you and your husband to buy the condo and put it in your name. You could cover the HOA fees and they would essentially not have rent.

Could they live on the social security benefits if they drastically cut their living expenses?

There's too many unknown factors in what you've provided to be able to give any practical advice.

While I get you think you shouldn't have to pay anything, I'm not sure this viewpoint is going to get you far in your relationship with your husband.

OP here - Should I buy them a palace and some butlers too? Maybe I should quit my job to wait on them hand and foot. Thanks for posting, but this is ridiculous.

You can buy an inexpensive condo depending on where it's located. Again, there's not enough info to provide helpful info.

I'm going to have say that the more you respond the more obvious it is you are a bitter person with not much generosity of spirit.

Good luck.

oP is hard working and frustrated. She doesn't own her place and people like you expect her to buy her irresponsible inlaws a condo. No. And that's a big hell no

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, the HHI would give a good idea of whether or not helping them is a reasonable request.

Based on the fact you won't give the HHI, I'm going to assume it is sizable.

If you are making under $100K, no, there's no way you can support them if you living in the DC metro.

If, your household income is over $250K, then yes, you should be able to manage some sort of monthly allowance.

Another suggestion would be for them to sell all of the current property they own and move to a condo where they would not need to do to outside maintenance and, depending on where you buy, it might be better for you and your husband to buy the condo and put it in your name. You could cover the HOA fees and they would essentially not have rent.

Could they live on the social security benefits if they drastically cut their living expenses?

There's too many unknown factors in what you've provided to be able to give any practical advice.

While I get you think you shouldn't have to pay anything, I'm not sure this viewpoint is going to get you far in your relationship with your husband.

OP here - Should I buy them a palace and some butlers too? Maybe I should quit my job to wait on them hand and foot. Thanks for posting, but this is ridiculous.

You can buy an inexpensive condo depending on where it's located. Again, there's not enough info to provide helpful info.

I'm going to have say that the more you respond the more obvious it is you are a bitter person with not much generosity of spirit.

Good luck.

oP is hard working and frustrated. She doesn't own her place and people like you expect her to buy her irresponsible inlaws a condo. No. And that's a big hell no

OP here - thank you for injecting some sanity into this, PP. I thought I had entered the twilight zone for a second because I just couldn't understand how a reasonable person could think I should buy someone else a place when I haven't even yet saved up for my own first home.

[Anonymous]

+1. Let them rent like OP does.

An added benefit of renting is that the landlord gets to be the bad guy, not OP. Maybe the possibility of eviction will be a good reality check.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Realistically, will your MIL have to be your FIL's caregiver and spend many hours a week on that? I don't know how much she can really work if, say, she has to drive him to appointments, etc.

"His father has been diagnosed with a heart condition that means he will have to scale his hours back considerably."

It doesn't sound like he's at death's door and can work or collect disability.

MIL needs to work more than 15 hrs a week before they should expect help.

OP here - he has been put on a lot of medication and I believe he is being evaluated for some kind of bypass procedure. He is very fit and in shape from years of construction, but he is a heavy, three or four pack a day smoker, and I think that will affect his recovery.

So he smokes 3-4 packs a day?!? Probably why he needs a bypass even though he is fit. Irresponsible all the way around... Your MIL is a princess. She needs to work more hours.

OP here - yes, he is a super heavy smoker who had not been to the doctor in years until his wheezing and shortness of breath and chest pain became unbearable. There are many, many poor decisions at play in my in laws' lives. I really can't begin to detail just how poor their judgment is.

So your in-laws cannot take care of themselves financially, health-wise, etc. Sounds like they need a mommy and daddy to take care of them.

You already have young children to take care of... You can help if you wish but at this point, they sound like a lost cause.

Tell your husband that while you will lend emotional support, the only financial support you are comfortable giving is with funds left over from taking care of your own family, including vacations, cars, etc. since you have worked hard to have the lifestyle you have.

Just keep in mind that your in-laws will not be grateful for any help you give bc they are irresponsible, entitled spoiled brats at heart even if they are old.

OP here - this is definitely true. My MIL behaves as if others are her serfs. She will not see any reason at all to be grateful if I help her. My FIL will probably think it is his entitlement as a father, even though they have refused to help DH with basic things that one would think are his entitlement as son.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, the HHI would give a good idea of whether or not helping them is a reasonable request.

Based on the fact you won't give the HHI, I'm going to assume it is sizable.

If you are making under $100K, no, there's no way you can support them if you living in the DC metro.

If, your household income is over $250K, then yes, you should be able to manage some sort of monthly allowance.

Another suggestion would be for them to sell all of the current property they own and move to a condo where they would not need to do to outside maintenance and, depending on where you buy, it might be better for you and your husband to buy the condo and put it in your name. You could cover the HOA fees and they would essentially not have rent.

Could they live on the social security benefits if they drastically cut their living expenses?

There's too many unknown factors in what you've provided to be able to give any practical advice.

While I get you think you shouldn't have to pay anything, I'm not sure this viewpoint is going to get you far in your relationship with your husband.

OP here - Should I buy them a palace and some butlers too? Maybe I should quit my job to wait on them hand and foot. Thanks for posting, but this is ridiculous.

You can buy an inexpensive condo depending on where it's located. Again, there's not enough info to provide helpful info.

I'm going to have say that the more you respond the more obvious it is you are a bitter person with not much generosity of spirit.

Good luck.

oP is hard working and frustrated. She doesn't own her place and people like you expect her to buy her irresponsible inlaws a condo. No. And that's a big hell no

At least if the OP buys the condo and keeps the condo in her name it remains an asset. It is a better alternative than giving them a monthly stipend. The in-laws can use their social security to buy food, pay utilities, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

oP is hard working and frustrated. She doesn't own her place and people like you expect her to buy her irresponsible inlaws a condo. No. And that's a big hell no

At least if the OP buys the condo and keeps the condo in her name it remains an asset. It is a better alternative than giving them a monthly stipend. The in-laws can use their social security to buy food, pay utilities, etc.

That's assuming OP has enough money/liquidity to buy the condo, and can fit the real estate risk into her portfolio. And then of course there are all the hassles of home ownership. It might be a lot less work to have them rent. And have them pay their own utilities, or they can sit in the dark!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

oP is hard working and frustrated. She doesn't own her place and people like you expect her to buy her irresponsible inlaws a condo. No. And that's a big hell no

At least if the OP buys the condo and keeps the condo in her name it remains an asset. It is a better alternative than giving them a monthly stipend. The in-laws can use their social security to buy food, pay utilities, etc.

That's assuming OP has enough money/liquidity to buy the condo, and can fit the real estate risk into her portfolio. And then of course there are all the hassles of home ownership. It might be a lot less work to have them rent. And have them pay their own utilities, or they can sit in the dark!

It's already been pointed out the OP has been less than forthcoming with helpful details which would allow someone to make some intelligent suggestions. All the OP wants to hear is how she's in the right and she should tell them to go pound sand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

oP is hard working and frustrated. She doesn't own her place and people like you expect her to buy her irresponsible inlaws a condo. No. And that's a big hell no

At least if the OP buys the condo and keeps the condo in her name it remains an asset. It is a better alternative than giving them a monthly stipend. The in-laws can use their social security to buy food, pay utilities, etc.

That's assuming OP has enough money/liquidity to buy the condo, and can fit the real estate risk into her portfolio. And then of course there are all the hassles of home ownership. It might be a lot less work to have them rent. And have them pay their own utilities, or they can sit in the dark!

It's already been pointed out the OP has been less than forthcoming with helpful details which would allow someone to make some intelligent suggestions. All the OP wants to hear is how she's in the right and she should tell them to go pound sand.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

oP is hard working and frustrated. She doesn't own her place and people like you expect her to buy her irresponsible inlaws a condo. No. And that's a big hell no

At least if the OP buys the condo and keeps the condo in her name it remains an asset. It is a better alternative than giving them a monthly stipend. The in-laws can use their social security to buy food, pay utilities, etc.

That's assuming OP has enough money/liquidity to buy the condo, and can fit the real estate risk into her portfolio. And then of course there are all the hassles of home ownership. It might be a lot less work to have them rent. And have them pay their own utilities, or they can sit in the dark!

It's already been pointed out the OP has been less than forthcoming with helpful details which would allow someone to make some intelligent suggestions. All the OP wants to hear is how she's in the right and she should tell them to go pound sand.

OP here - I am not going to post my financials on a public forum in the name of soliciting advice. Others have been able to give their input without requiring up-to-date financial statements from me, so I will just have to find a way to keep on living without your advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

oP is hard working and frustrated. She doesn't own her place and people like you expect her to buy her irresponsible inlaws a condo. No. And that's a big hell no

At least if the OP buys the condo and keeps the condo in her name it remains an asset. It is a better alternative than giving them a monthly stipend. The in-laws can use their social security to buy food, pay utilities, etc.

That's assuming OP has enough money/liquidity to buy the condo, and can fit the real estate risk into her portfolio. And then of course there are all the hassles of home ownership. It might be a lot less work to have them rent. And have them pay their own utilities, or they can sit in the dark!

OP here - You are absolutely right to highlight the assumption underlying that bizarre advice. There is no way that I can make a gift of a condo to anyone, including myself right now, and I certainly am not buying a condo for my in laws. Advice like this is how people like my in laws end up in rotten real estate deals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

oP is hard working and frustrated. She doesn't own her place and people like you expect her to buy her irresponsible inlaws a condo. No. And that's a big hell no

At least if the OP buys the condo and keeps the condo in her name it remains an asset. It is a better alternative than giving them a monthly stipend. The in-laws can use their social security to buy food, pay utilities, etc.

That's assuming OP has enough money/liquidity to buy the condo, and can fit the real estate risk into her portfolio. And then of course there are all the hassles of home ownership. It might be a lot less work to have them rent. And have them pay their own utilities, or they can sit in the dark!

OP here - You are absolutely right to highlight the assumption underlying that bizarre advice. There is no way that I can make a gift of a condo to anyone, including myself right now, and I certainly am not buying a condo for my in laws. Advice like this is how people like my in laws end up in rotten real estate deals.

OP you are right. You should keep all of the money. Please stop posting as you've now been absolved of all guilt. You are in no position to give them any money and it's beyond me why your husband thinks you have so much money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

oP is hard working and frustrated. She doesn't own her place and people like you expect her to buy her irresponsible inlaws a condo. No. And that's a big hell no

At least if the OP buys the condo and keeps the condo in her name it remains an asset. It is a better alternative than giving them a monthly stipend. The in-laws can use their social security to buy food, pay utilities, etc.

That's assuming OP has enough money/liquidity to buy the condo, and can fit the real estate risk into her portfolio. And then of course there are all the hassles of home ownership. It might be a lot less work to have them rent. And have them pay their own utilities, or they can sit in the dark!

OP here - You are absolutely right to highlight the assumption underlying that bizarre advice. There is no way that I can make a gift of a condo to anyone, including myself right now, and I certainly am not buying a condo for my in laws. Advice like this is how people like my in laws end up in rotten real estate deals.

OP you are right. You should keep all of the money. Please stop posting as you've now been absolved of all guilt. You are in no position to give them any money and it's beyond me why your husband thinks you have so much money.

OP here - Thank you for your permission. I hadn't realized that I must either purchase a condo or do nothing at all. You should go share your wisdom with others now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
OP, start with getting the in-laws to an objective third party to help them rearrange the finances the DO have. DH should not play this role, nor should you be involved (though it's likely you will be the one who finds DH a list of resources for this, HE should deal with his own parents here). Many banks will give regular account holders all kinds of free financial planning help if the customers just ask for it. But I would really have DH (not you) lead them on this, and get them to a planner who has already been primed by DH for the fact that mom and dad must figure out a weekly, monthly and annual budget and factor in mom's new job because that needs to be part of it. Another place to look for financial counseling at no or low cost would be senior centers and their city or county government's department on aging (these have different names in different places so you may need to hunt down the right agency).

DH also needs to research hard and fast to see if they are eligible for certain kinds of state or federal aid, especially if dad can claim disability (he would possibly have to stop working to collect, though), or if they can get Medicare etc. This part of it is tricky to negotiate depending on age, whether FIL is truly disabled or is able to work (scaled back), whether MIL should work or not in order to qualify, etc.

But all this has to happen with DH accepting that he, not you, deals with them, and that he should not give them any expectation of any money whatsoever, even if that means telling them up front, "We'll help you get the planning done and the applicatons for program X for aid but we are fully committed to two college funds and our retirement as far as our own funds are concerned." OP, is he tough enough to tell them that, or will he cave?

For yourself, I would be armed with documentation of how much you will need for two college tuitions, your own retirements (which could last many years if you're healthy and live a long time), keeping your home without any risk, health and life insurance costs for your own family, etc. You might need to have a serious sit-down with your DH and show him that even if you seem now to have enough money to pay some bills for his parents, you have a lot of years ahead to cover for your own family, and you cannot put your kids' educations or your own retirements or health care at risk. If this starts to affect your marriage, please get to a couples therapist. There should be no reason to damage a marriage over this, but if he is not really able to see his parents' irresponsibilty or he makes you into a villain--you'll need to work on it.

OP here - thank you for this. It is very helpful. I am not hopeful about the likelihood of getting them to talk to a third-party about their finances. A few years ago, a friend of theirs who is an expert actually offered to help them and they turned him down. My FIL said that he did not feel comfortable having someone else tell him what to do with his hard-earned money. He is old fashioned in all the wrong ways. I can help DH research everything we can about state and federal aid, and give of our time in other ways that will prove helpful to them. After reading some of the more helpful responses in this thread, I am inclined not to step in until they have spent down whatever they have (it is probably not much), they have looked into governmental assistance, and MIL has made some attempt at self help.