Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This woman has a child with Downs. This makes her parenting style even more sick.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy_Chua

Wow, I totally missed this. This even makes it more sad-- she lavished all this crazy attention on the 2 "smart" kids and then what did she do for the DS kid? (Apparently, she also applied some of the same techniques since it notes that the DS won gold medals in swimming in the special olympics).

Her *sister*, NOT her child has Downs - from Wikipedia:

She has two daughters, Sophia and Louisa. She is the eldest of 4 sisters: Michelle, Katrin, and Cynthia. Katrin is a professor at Stanford University. One sister has Down Syndrome and holds two International Special Olympic gold medals in swimming.

the wikpedia site has been changed since last evening. It most definitely said her DAUGHTER last night and now says her sister. Weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:i don't think we can come to conclusions based on the one asian person we knew growing up who was pushed but socially awkward. there is good and bad to both chinese/asian and western style of parenting.

my husband and i both grew up in an asian immigrant home with a very similar parenting style, but not as extreme. both of us did very well, ivy graduates, lawyers... and happy.... we have friends, a social life, and i would like to think that we are not socially awkward. i attribute most of our success to our parents, who did push us to reach our potential. at the same time they sacrified A LOT for us...i only hope i can sacrifice as much time and energy to my own kids.

(as for the hillary/ bill comment - i think a lot of the dislike towards hillary has to do with her being a woman. )

This thread is about the extreme academic pushing abusive parenting, not the not extreme. I commented on my friend with sad eyes before. I also knew of an Asian American boy who commited suicide at my high school. I wonder if it was from too much pushing. Hopefully not. But I also had a few other Asian American friends who were pushed but not to the extreme like the article. They still had social lives and went to the mall, hung out, etc. I don't think this thread is about regular pushing your child to succeed, it's the extreme.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm just now adding to this thread.

I am Asian-American and I grew up in such a household. It is terrible parenting. I don't know what goes on in that author's household, but my experience felt like verbal abuse. I grew up thinking that being suicidal was normal. I was aware that I was suicidal when I was 11, although it probably started younger. When I went to college, I landed myself in the mental ward of a hospital for a week. It took many years and I did recover from depression. Then I also got PPD after DS was born. Yes, I recovered from that too. PPD felt like hardly nothing compared to the depression during my childhood.

Although I'm pretty happy these days, I still have issues. Yes, my accomplishments give my parents bragging rights -- performed piano at Carnegie Hall three times in my teens, PhD, 6 figure salary. But is that really worth making your child feel completely worthless for decades? to the point where she wants to die all the time?

You better bet that I'm raising my kids differently.

I just wanted to post to let you know how amazing and strong you are today, and how great a mom you must be. I hope I know you in real life and that our kids can be friends (and have many a sleepover )

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

By most measures, the author has done very well professionally (see http://www.law.yale.edu/faculty/chuacurriculumvitae.htm ). So maybe she is just applying what she thought brought her success to parenting her daughters...

She also still lists on her CV that she was first in her HS class. Time to move on, sister.

Ha. Thanks for posting the CV. She must have been suicidal when she only graduated cum laude from Harvard Law and did not get a Supreme Court clerkship, which she almost certainly applied for, and which many if not most people who are on the masthead of the Harvard Law Review and clerk on the DC Circuit do receive. Perhaps it was because her grades weren't that good (maybe she even made the Review through affirmative action!), or maybe she was just a jerk and none of the Justices wanted to spend a year working closely with her. Ordinarily I wouldn't be so catty, but by putting herself out there saying worldly success is everything, she asked for it.

[Anonymous]

What.a.bitch.this.mother.is!

[Anonymous]

I personally think that grades are VERY important, but I don't think that this is the way to go about it. I don't think you should ever call your kid garbage and I don't think they need to study 18 hours a day on the weekends to get good grades. (If that is the case, then they really aren't that smart.) If you know your child can get an A, then yes, I think a little pushing is good...and by pushing, I mean, that they can't play nintendo until their homework is done. And I won't let my child join something and then quit 2 weeks in, but if they don't want to do it anymore after the season is over, then they don't have to try it again. Verbal abuse is verbal abuse and this lady just seems like she's an abuser.

However, those commenting that what does school matter, etc? Oy! Don't set your kid up for failure either!! Ever watch the movie Idiocracy? Americans are falling behind, and I truly find that sad. I think its abuse to push your child the way this mother is, but its neglect/abuse to not have your child do their best either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

By most measures, the author has done very well professionally (see http://www.law.yale.edu/faculty/chuacurriculumvitae.htm ). So maybe she is just applying what she thought brought her success to parenting her daughters...

She also still lists on her CV that she was first in her HS class. Time to move on, sister.

Ha. Thanks for posting the CV. She must have been suicidal when she only graduated cum laude from Harvard Law and did not get a Supreme Court clerkship, which she almost certainly applied for, and which many if not most people who are on the masthead of the Harvard Law Review and clerk on the DC Circuit do receive. Perhaps it was because her grades weren't that good (maybe she even made the Review through affirmative action!), or maybe she was just a jerk and none of the Justices wanted to spend a year working closely with her. Ordinarily I wouldn't be so catty, but by putting herself out there saying worldly success is everything, she asked for it.

LOL, Chinese people are not the direct beneficiaries of affirmative action. (I say this as an Indian person in support of affirmative action - it doesn't help us, either.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

By most measures, the author has done very well professionally (see http://www.law.yale.edu/faculty/chuacurriculumvitae.htm ). So maybe she is just applying what she thought brought her success to parenting her daughters...

She also still lists on her CV that she was first in her HS class. Time to move on, sister.

Ha. Thanks for posting the CV. She must have been suicidal when she only graduated cum laude from Harvard Law and did not get a Supreme Court clerkship, which she almost certainly applied for, and which many if not most people who are on the masthead of the Harvard Law Review and clerk on the DC Circuit do receive. Perhaps it was because her grades weren't that good (maybe she even made the Review through affirmative action!), or maybe she was just a jerk and none of the Justices wanted to spend a year working closely with her. Ordinarily I wouldn't be so catty, but by putting herself out there saying worldly success is everything, she asked for it.

LOL, Chinese people are not the direct beneficiaries of affirmative action. (I say this as an Indian person in support of affirmative action - it doesn't help us, either.)

Another Asian-American here - ha, would have loved it if affirmative action applied to us. We're in with white people for most purposes, and for some things like exclusive colleges, it's harder to get in as an Asian than any other race. Lol, that's a good one, PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

By most measures, the author has done very well professionally (see http://www.law.yale.edu/faculty/chuacurriculumvitae.htm ). So maybe she is just applying what she thought brought her success to parenting her daughters...

She also still lists on her CV that she was first in her HS class. Time to move on, sister.

Ha. Thanks for posting the CV. She must have been suicidal when she only graduated cum laude from Harvard Law and did not get a Supreme Court clerkship, which she almost certainly applied for, and which many if not most people who are on the masthead of the Harvard Law Review and clerk on the DC Circuit do receive. Perhaps it was because her grades weren't that good (maybe she even made the Review through affirmative action!), or maybe she was just a jerk and none of the Justices wanted to spend a year working closely with her. Ordinarily I wouldn't be so catty, but by putting herself out there saying worldly success is everything, she asked for it.

LOL, Chinese people are not the direct beneficiaries of affirmative action. (I say this as an Indian person in support of affirmative action - it doesn't help us, either.)

Well, they can be when they are deemed underrepresented, and they were eligible for it at the HLR around that time.

[Anonymous]

You know, I agree that some of the stories here are just shocking... but I think there are some potentially valid points...

First, I suspect that the author is purposefully choosing her absolute best (worst?) parenting moments to highlight some of the differences in approach. I doubt she is dumb enough not to realize that Americans will have a shocked reaction to that (perhaps that is her goal?)

But I think if you look at the big picture, you could possibly take away two or three points that are not inherently terrible parenting -- it may just be that the author's particular approach is reprehensible.

Here's what I got out of it, and I think there is a certain amount of truth in these thigs:

1) Due to Chinese culture, there is a greater respect for parents/elders. This sometimes manifests in a sense that parents are not afraid of asking/telling kids to do something unpleasant that the parents think is for the child's own good. Contrast this with American culture, where there are many instances of parents arguably pandering to their children's sense of comfort and well-being TOO much. To the detriment of discipline, manners, etc. Not saying either approach is perfect... but it may be that where American's stray too far to one side, the Chinese stray to far in the other direction...

2) Perhaps, one way to BUILD self-esteem in a child, is to unabashedly expect greatness. It occurs to me that in at least some cases, parents who tell their kids that B's and C's are OK ("after all, honey, you did your best, right?") may actually just be teaching their kids that that is all they are capable (or, more precisely, that that is all the parent thinks the child is capable of).

Admittedly, navigating the waters in a practical sense is a tough thing (and I'm not defending some of this woman's methods, which I find truly alarming). But perhaps there is a valuable lesson here? I'm American, and I remember one day in high school bringing home a report card of A's and B's. Lots of B's. I defended the B's as: "B's still mean "Good" Dad!" My Dad said, "Yes, but YOU are not a B student".

I remember being terribly offended at the time, but in my heart of hearts,... I knew I hadn't tried as hard as I could've, and that my father's admonishment was true. And, although it came with certain pressures... I knew that my Dad thought I was TOO SMART to be bringing home Bs. (He was right). So, in a strange sense, that did actually build my confidence. Again, I'm not defending some of the behavior she admits to in this story, but if you put that aside and look at the big picture, I think there is some value to this approach in general. But as we all know, the devil is in the details (or more accurately, good parenting comes down to cumulation of each specific interaction with your kids..., and I think this woman went off the rails).

[Anonymous]

Her husband must have really lost his balls to go along with this shit!!

[Anonymous]

Am I the only one who understands that the author mischievously exaggerated her "worst" parenting techniques?

Of course her real-life parenting is close to this. But she has a lot of fun in the article riling you all up! She knew she would get that kind of reaction.

Truthfully, you can demand stellar performance from your children, as my French-Japanese parents did from me. But if you do, you had better make darn well sure that they know you love them for who they are. Communication in this as well as all other relationships, is absolutely sine qua non.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Am I the only one who understands that the author mischievously exaggerated her "worst" parenting techniques?

Of course her real-life parenting is close to this. But she has a lot of fun in the article riling you all up! She knew she would get that kind of reaction.

Truthfully, you can demand stellar performance from your children, as my French-Japanese parents did from me. But if you do, you had better make darn well sure that they know you love them for who they are. Communication in this as well as all other relationships, is absolutely sine qua non.

What ever sells the WSJ. She is selling it.

[Anonymous]

http://www.doublex.com/blog/xxfactor/amy-chua-tiger-mother-you-pussycat

I think this is a really sane response. Like the author, I just don't have any interest in sitting and supervising my children's violin practice for hours and then vicariously assuming their sucess. Guess I'm not willing to "sacrifice" for them.

[Anonymous]

The author admits that she really cannot enjoy life. That about sums it up for me.