Should I divorce my high functioning alcoholic husband?

[Anonymous]

I’m on the other side of this, OP. Finally divorced and much happier, and kids are doing well. He has 40% time with them, breathalyzer and intoxilock in his car, and lots of other safety protections, and the youngest was 8 when we divorced so old enough to not cause himself harm if dad passed out on couch or whatever. I didnt read all the responses, but here are a few thoughts:

1. yes it will get worse.
2. he’s fighting you because he isn’t ready to admit he’s an addict and seek help. very typical. he has to hit rock bottom and decide to want to change to even have a chance. Do you know, if you actually packed up to leave, or served him with papers? would that be enough to get him to go to rehab? Not just AA - rehab. Someone mentioned Kolmac - that and other programs locally (see also Verve) have what’s called an Intensive Outpatient program (IOP) which recent studies show is more effective than residential (because they recover IN their community, surrounded by their regular stressors). It is a night program so they can keep working, which is a big plus for functional alcoholics because they generally do not want to admit to everyone they have a problem.
3. even if he admits a problem and tries to get help, it’s very hard. My ex has been to rehab 4 times. i have no confidence he will actually stay sober - i suspect he’ll drink himself to death. the best I can do is make sure he doesn’t drive drunk and take someone else with him.
4. the legal protections I have are very hard to get if there’s no legal evidence of drinking (DUI, domestic violence calls, etc). The court is not going to give you custody based on your claim or evidence (photos/videos wahtever) that he’s an alcoholic.
5. I got them by negotiating with him. I gave up other things in return. I had excellent legal advice. There are lawyers in this area who specialize in these types of situations. See one or more of them, not just any divorce lawyer.
6. It has been a long road but I’m so much happier on the other side. my kids spend time with him, and he’s mostly a good dad (the stuff you describe - he goes to their games and plays, is generally present) but they also know he has this problem, have seen him relapse and go back to rehab, and they know its precarious. I help them through it, and honestly I’m much more able to do it now that I’m not dealing with his gaslighting on a regular basis. It did my psyche so much harm - it is 100% like being cheated on, when you sense they are lying and start searching the house for bottles in the middle of the night. It took a long time to find myself again.

good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m on the other side of this, OP. Finally divorced and much happier, and kids are doing well. He has 40% time with them, breathalyzer and intoxilock in his car, and lots of other safety protections, and the youngest was 8 when we divorced so old enough to not cause himself harm if dad passed out on couch or whatever. I didnt read all the responses, but here are a few thoughts:

1. yes it will get worse.
2. he’s fighting you because he isn’t ready to admit he’s an addict and seek help. very typical. he has to hit rock bottom and decide to want to change to even have a chance. Do you know, if you actually packed up to leave, or served him with papers? would that be enough to get him to go to rehab? Not just AA - rehab. Someone mentioned Kolmac - that and other programs locally (see also Verve) have what’s called an Intensive Outpatient program (IOP) which recent studies show is more effective than residential (because they recover IN their community, surrounded by their regular stressors). It is a night program so they can keep working, which is a big plus for functional alcoholics because they generally do not want to admit to everyone they have a problem.
3. even if he admits a problem and tries to get help, it’s very hard. My ex has been to rehab 4 times. i have no confidence he will actually stay sober - i suspect he’ll drink himself to death. the best I can do is make sure he doesn’t drive drunk and take someone else with him.
4. the legal protections I have are very hard to get if there’s no legal evidence of drinking (DUI, domestic violence calls, etc). The court is not going to give you custody based on your claim or evidence (photos/videos wahtever) that he’s an alcoholic.
5. I got them by negotiating with him. I gave up other things in return. I had excellent legal advice. There are lawyers in this area who specialize in these types of situations. See one or more of them, not just any divorce lawyer.
6. It has been a long road but I’m so much happier on the other side. my kids spend time with him, and he’s mostly a good dad (the stuff you describe - he goes to their games and plays, is generally present) but they also know he has this problem, have seen him relapse and go back to rehab, and they know its precarious. I help them through it, and honestly I’m much more able to do it now that I’m not dealing with his gaslighting on a regular basis. It did my psyche so much harm - it is 100% like being cheated on, when you sense they are lying and start searching the house for bottles in the middle of the night. It took a long time to find myself again.

good luck.

Not OP but how do you find such a lawyer. I have pretty solid evidence of alcoholism and am probably approaching a custody battle, though in my dream world my spouse would just. go. get. help.

Also information on the studies showing IOP is better than residential would be great.

[Anonymous]

I found my lawyer by asking very specifically across my network for lawyers with substance abuse expertise and, in my case, collaborative divorce (but not mediation). the same few names kept coming up. I also interviewed several, and asked them who they recommended. The community is not that big, they all know each other. If you are in MD, try Meg McKinney and AnneMarie Jackson for starters.

I don’t have the studies at my fingertips but I continue to work with a phd substance abuse specialist and he told me this. Having watched 4 rehabs it makes sense to me - when they come back after 30-60 days, they may have new skills but they are right back where they started. A good IOP will force them to deal with their home environment every day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I found my lawyer by asking very specifically across my network for lawyers with substance abuse expertise and, in my case, collaborative divorce (but not mediation). the same few names kept coming up. I also interviewed several, and asked them who they recommended. The community is not that big, they all know each other. If you are in MD, try Meg McKinney and AnneMarie Jackson for starters.

I don’t have the studies at my fingertips but I continue to work with a phd substance abuse specialist and he told me this. Having watched 4 rehabs it makes sense to me - when they come back after 30-60 days, they may have new skills but they are right back where they started. A good IOP will force them to deal with their home environment every day.

How do you find a PhD substance abuse specialist? I'm trying to find answers for "How can you tell your alcoholic is actually changing" and I have no idea who can even answer that question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Should I divorce my high functioning alcoholic husband? married for a long time, 2 young children. His drinking got worse over the years, he's in total denial, because he's doing well career wise, and is very involved with the kids, he's pretty awesome during the day, he doesn't think he should or need to change. Main issue for me is he is a totally different person at night after drinking, and he lies/gaslight in my face about how much or what he's been drinking. His dad, grandparents, uncles are all high functioning alcoholics, at this point, I don't think he will ever ever change.

Doesn't sound that bad. Sounds like a good husband overall.

Your situation is the same as being married to an obese person who overeats, or a smoker who sneaks smokes.

He won't quit. It will affect his health, and will likely die earlier than he would otherwise.
Do you want to miss out on your relationship because of that? Would be rather childish if you did.

Bullshit. An alcoholic has much more potential to negatively affect his or her family or random strangers. Your judgement is impaired by alcohol, not twinkies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I found my lawyer by asking very specifically across my network for lawyers with substance abuse expertise and, in my case, collaborative divorce (but not mediation). the same few names kept coming up. I also interviewed several, and asked them who they recommended. The community is not that big, they all know each other. If you are in MD, try Meg McKinney and AnneMarie Jackson for starters.

I don’t have the studies at my fingertips but I continue to work with a phd substance abuse specialist and he told me this. Having watched 4 rehabs it makes sense to me - when they come back after 30-60 days, they may have new skills but they are right back where they started. A good IOP will force them to deal with their home environment every day.

How do you find a PhD substance abuse specialist? I'm trying to find answers for "How can you tell your alcoholic is actually changing" and I have no idea who can even answer that question.

I am in the DC area, and what I found is that the community of professional service providers for substance abuse is very small and they all know each other. I don’t honestly remember my way in, I think it was probably when I needed therapy for stress in my marriage 10 years ago, and I interviewed a handful of therapists and asked for people with experience dealing with substance abuse. I imagine psychology today profiles would identify them these days. I’m guessing here, but I think I found a therapist for myself, and after a while I thought we would try marriage therapy and she sent us to someone with a certification in addiction, and so on. Once you find your way in it is kind of a closed circle.

I’m not clear what you’re looking for - therapy for you? Him? Both? Rehab or recovery programs? What makes you think he’s changing at all? If he is in recovery you would know if he’s changing - he would be talking about his step work. If he’s not in recovery… he’s not changing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I found my lawyer by asking very specifically across my network for lawyers with substance abuse expertise and, in my case, collaborative divorce (but not mediation). the same few names kept coming up. I also interviewed several, and asked them who they recommended. The community is not that big, they all know each other. If you are in MD, try Meg McKinney and AnneMarie Jackson for starters.

I don’t have the studies at my fingertips but I continue to work with a phd substance abuse specialist and he told me this. Having watched 4 rehabs it makes sense to me - when they come back after 30-60 days, they may have new skills but they are right back where they started. A good IOP will force them to deal with their home environment every day.

How do you find a PhD substance abuse specialist? I'm trying to find answers for "How can you tell your alcoholic is actually changing" and I have no idea who can even answer that question.

I am in the DC area, and what I found is that the community of professional service providers for substance abuse is very small and they all know each other. I don’t honestly remember my way in, I think it was probably when I needed therapy for stress in my marriage 10 years ago, and I interviewed a handful of therapists and asked for people with experience dealing with substance abuse. I imagine psychology today profiles would identify them these days. I’m guessing here, but I think I found a therapist for myself, and after a while I thought we would try marriage therapy and she sent us to someone with a certification in addiction, and so on. Once you find your way in it is kind of a closed circle.

I’m not clear what you’re looking for - therapy for you? Him? Both? Rehab or recovery programs? What makes you think he’s changing at all? If he is in recovery you would know if he’s changing - he would be talking about his step work. If he’s not in recovery… he’s not changing

I actually need the answer to the question for none of the above, but rather for future planning that I'm being forced to (not that I chose). I'm trying to do the most realistic future plan I can.

But eventually once that settles down I also need a lot of therapy.

[Anonymous]

If he is high functioning and treats you well, WHY on earth would you leave him for an addiction that isn't harming you?

That is not right and morally repugnant.

[Anonymous]

Bullshit. She's supposed to wait until he starts getting more absent or aggressive, drinks out of flasks at kids games, embarrasses them. Starts losing the ability to masquerade as high functioning, gets noticed at work, she realizes he HAS been drinking before driving the kids...
If he was unemployed and 500 pounds and running up credit card debt on door dash or Walmart crates of fatty snax, what would you say? He could be attentive if the kids helped with his electric scooter at games but it could be embarrassing if the other kids mocked him eating at games.
OP spouse making money buys him a lot of passes it seems.

[Anonymous]

I am in the same exact situation as OP but my kids are older - they notice and ask questions and one of them even knows about the sneaking and lying. It feels recent but wondering if I have been naive as I have found a lot of bottles/cups etc and there has been a lot of lying and sneaking.
I don’t even need advice bc I know what I should do but also know I won’t do it, I just want to vent I think. This is so hard

[Anonymous]

I don’t know if it’s better for kids to live with both parents where one parent is an alcoholic and have the financial benefit, lack of going from house to house, having to split holidays etc or for the parents to split and have one fairly functional hh but have to spend half the time with an alcoholic. It’s not an easy decision to make if you have young kids.

I didn’t realize part of the custody order could include requiring breathalyzers etc…what kind of proof do you need for this to happen?

[Anonymous]

yes

[Anonymous]

OP you talk about "high functioning alcoholism" like it was a minor chronic thing like bone spurs. It's not a badge of honor.
Alcoholics don't get graded like beef.
In AA an alcoholic is an alcoholic.
It's progressive. I bet he was less drunk and less gaslighty a few years back.
Look forward.
His job will eventually be at risk and with it all that nice $$$$.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am so sorry. I have a similar situation except no kids.

Why do I stay? I do love him. I am scared of being alone. He can be wonderful when not drunk. He is a high earner and I do not earn anywhere close. I would need a very reduced lifestyle.

He has so many addicts in his family, it doesn't end well. His family is in denial and of no help whatsoever.

Unfortunately only you know the answer to that question. With kids, it is more complicated. Make sure you are getting support from Al Anon and your loved ones.

I might hit my breaking point, but I haven't yet. At times I feel close to it.

Hugs.

Sorry but this is pathetic.

There are financial reasons for women staying with their spouses as usually most women end up worse financially after divorce. That is awful for you to judge this person.

I mean, it's not like society had to pass a law that women have to be treated like equal human beings. I can't imagine why a woman would end up staying married for financial stability. /s

[Anonymous]

There are online Al Anon meetings.

There may not be great protections available for the kids and he may go for and get 50/50.