Sport Fair Winter Classic

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:We are hearing rumors some big clubs aren’t attending this year and were also just told we could bring more swimmers than originally planned. Which clubs are definitely attending? Who dropped out?

There are not many big clubs at this meet. The big clubs (RMSC, NCAP, Machine, etc) all attend NCI and Turkey Claus.

NCI pulls in a lot of teams from out of state and many qualifying cuts are faster than senior champs. It certainly takes a faster time to final. It’s a really fast meet.

NCI is just an incredibly fast meet. Thankfully Turkey Claus, sport Fair winter classic, etc exist for the not incredibly fast.

To be clear, there are plenty of swimmers at the Winter Classic that are fast enough to swim at the NCI. Their teams just don't participate so they cannot, even though they have the cuts. NCI is unquestionably a much faster meet, but it's inaccurate to say that the Winter Classic is for swimmers that are "not incredibly fast".

100%! Just looking at one event (50 back) in 9-10 girls, York, Makos, and OCCS all have 9-10 girls who are as fast as girls on NCAP and RMSC. York has the two fastest 9-10 girls in all of PVS by miles. (We swim at NCAP, but huge props to York. If we lived closer, I might change to York. They look like they are a true team.)

By the way YORK has literally always has good 10&Unders so where are their girls ranked in 13-14 and 15&Over categories right now?

If they aren’t high then sorry they aren’t a good team (unless you only want success at 10)

A lot of them move to NCAP.

This is true, many of them do. Many wish they could stay with York, but pool limitations means that a talented kid is forced to swim mornings at age 13. The higher performance groups are at 4:30 or 5:00 am. It's unfortunate. Many parents and swimmers want to avoid mornings at such a young age, so switch to NCAP Marymount, where they can continue afternoons/evenings through age 14 at least.

This is a big problem for York. The top kids are forced into early mornings too soon because of pool space. A lot of talented kids leave, bc their parents (many of whom were high level swimmers too) know that early mornings for that many years is a likely path to burnout.

The whole thing is ironic bc a lot of families choose York bc the focus is on fun and the practice requirements are typically not intense for age groupers (3-4 workouts a week max, even for the most talented 12 and unders). But then their kids turn 13 and they are forced to become more intense by way of getting up super early for practice.

I wish they could fix this issue; many more kids would stay past age 12.

York isn’t the only team that does this.

There are MANY teams in this area that have 13 year olds going early in the morning, yet YORK is the only one that goes from relevant at 10&Under to pretty much non-existent at 15&Over.

You’re being kind of a jerk here. There are 29 kids from York 15+ who are attending Winter Classic, and you’ve just called them “pretty much non-existent.” These are children. Please stop.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are hearing rumors some big clubs aren’t attending this year and were also just told we could bring more swimmers than originally planned. Which clubs are definitely attending? Who dropped out?

There are not many big clubs at this meet. The big clubs (RMSC, NCAP, Machine, etc) all attend NCI and Turkey Claus.

NCI pulls in a lot of teams from out of state and many qualifying cuts are faster than senior champs. It certainly takes a faster time to final. It’s a really fast meet.

NCI is just an incredibly fast meet. Thankfully Turkey Claus, sport Fair winter classic, etc exist for the not incredibly fast.

To be clear, there are plenty of swimmers at the Winter Classic that are fast enough to swim at the NCI. Their teams just don't participate so they cannot, even though they have the cuts. NCI is unquestionably a much faster meet, but it's inaccurate to say that the Winter Classic is for swimmers that are "not incredibly fast".

100%! Just looking at one event (50 back) in 9-10 girls, York, Makos, and OCCS all have 9-10 girls who are as fast as girls on NCAP and RMSC. York has the two fastest 9-10 girls in all of PVS by miles. (We swim at NCAP, but huge props to York. If we lived closer, I might change to York. They look like they are a true team.)

By the way YORK has literally always has good 10&Unders so where are their girls ranked in 13-14 and 15&Over categories right now?

If they aren’t high then sorry they aren’t a good team (unless you only want success at 10)

A lot of them move to NCAP.

This is true, many of them do. Many wish they could stay with York, but pool limitations means that a talented kid is forced to swim mornings at age 13. The higher performance groups are at 4:30 or 5:00 am. It's unfortunate. Many parents and swimmers want to avoid mornings at such a young age, so switch to NCAP Marymount, where they can continue afternoons/evenings through age 14 at least.

This is a big problem for York. The top kids are forced into early mornings too soon because of pool space. A lot of talented kids leave, bc their parents (many of whom were high level swimmers too) know that early mornings for that many years is a likely path to burnout.

The whole thing is ironic bc a lot of families choose York bc the focus is on fun and the practice requirements are typically not intense for age groupers (3-4 workouts a week max, even for the most talented 12 and unders). But then their kids turn 13 and they are forced to become more intense by way of getting up super early for practice.

I wish they could fix this issue; many more kids would stay past age 12.

York isn’t the only team that does this.

There are MANY teams in this area that have 13 year olds going early in the morning, yet YORK is the only one that goes from relevant at 10&Under to pretty much non-existent at 15&Over.

Is it the only option for those teams at 13? It’s not at NCAP. My DD swims at Marymount and we get a lot of good york kids bc we offer evenings through 14.

I think Marymount is the only NCAP site where the highest level 13 year olds aren’t doing at least 1 early morning practice.

NCAP Burke Silver I had evening-only (or morning-only) options

[Anonymous]

[You’re being kind of a jerk here. There are 29 kids from York 15+ who are attending Winter Classic, and you’ve just called them “pretty much non-existent.” These are children. Please stop.]

I completely agree with you on this, especially since this age group is definitely old enough to read these posts. Hopefully, comments like these will only motivate them to keep striving for their best.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are hearing rumors some big clubs aren’t attending this year and were also just told we could bring more swimmers than originally planned. Which clubs are definitely attending? Who dropped out?

There are not many big clubs at this meet. The big clubs (RMSC, NCAP, Machine, etc) all attend NCI and Turkey Claus.

NCI pulls in a lot of teams from out of state and many qualifying cuts are faster than senior champs. It certainly takes a faster time to final. It’s a really fast meet.

NCI is just an incredibly fast meet. Thankfully Turkey Claus, sport Fair winter classic, etc exist for the not incredibly fast.

To be clear, there are plenty of swimmers at the Winter Classic that are fast enough to swim at the NCI. Their teams just don't participate so they cannot, even though they have the cuts. NCI is unquestionably a much faster meet, but it's inaccurate to say that the Winter Classic is for swimmers that are "not incredibly fast".

100%! Just looking at one event (50 back) in 9-10 girls, York, Makos, and OCCS all have 9-10 girls who are as fast as girls on NCAP and RMSC. York has the two fastest 9-10 girls in all of PVS by miles. (We swim at NCAP, but huge props to York. If we lived closer, I might change to York. They look like they are a true team.)

By the way YORK has literally always has good 10&Unders so where are their girls ranked in 13-14 and 15&Over categories right now?

If they aren’t high then sorry they aren’t a good team (unless you only want success at 10)

A lot of them move to NCAP.

This is true, many of them do. Many wish they could stay with York, but pool limitations means that a talented kid is forced to swim mornings at age 13. The higher performance groups are at 4:30 or 5:00 am. It's unfortunate. Many parents and swimmers want to avoid mornings at such a young age, so switch to NCAP Marymount, where they can continue afternoons/evenings through age 14 at least.

This is a big problem for York. The top kids are forced into early mornings too soon because of pool space. A lot of talented kids leave, bc their parents (many of whom were high level swimmers too) know that early mornings for that many years is a likely path to burnout.

The whole thing is ironic bc a lot of families choose York bc the focus is on fun and the practice requirements are typically not intense for age groupers (3-4 workouts a week max, even for the most talented 12 and unders). But then their kids turn 13 and they are forced to become more intense by way of getting up super early for practice.

I wish they could fix this issue; many more kids would stay past age 12.

York isn’t the only team that does this.

There are MANY teams in this area that have 13 year olds going early in the morning, yet YORK is the only one that goes from relevant at 10&Under to pretty much non-existent at 15&Over.

Is it the only option for those teams at 13? It’s not at NCAP. My DD swims at Marymount and we get a lot of good york kids bc we offer evenings through 14.

I think Marymount is the only NCAP site where the highest level 13 year olds aren’t doing at least 1 early morning practice.

NCAP Burke Silver I had evening-only (or morning-only) options

Silver 1 has a 5 am Sunday practice and a Wednesday am distance practice that is invite only. That’s better than every site other than Marymount though.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are hearing rumors some big clubs aren’t attending this year and were also just told we could bring more swimmers than originally planned. Which clubs are definitely attending? Who dropped out?

There are not many big clubs at this meet. The big clubs (RMSC, NCAP, Machine, etc) all attend NCI and Turkey Claus.

NCI pulls in a lot of teams from out of state and many qualifying cuts are faster than senior champs. It certainly takes a faster time to final. It’s a really fast meet.

NCI is just an incredibly fast meet. Thankfully Turkey Claus, sport Fair winter classic, etc exist for the not incredibly fast.

To be clear, there are plenty of swimmers at the Winter Classic that are fast enough to swim at the NCI. Their teams just don't participate so they cannot, even though they have the cuts. NCI is unquestionably a much faster meet, but it's inaccurate to say that the Winter Classic is for swimmers that are "not incredibly fast".

100%! Just looking at one event (50 back) in 9-10 girls, York, Makos, and OCCS all have 9-10 girls who are as fast as girls on NCAP and RMSC. York has the two fastest 9-10 girls in all of PVS by miles. (We swim at NCAP, but huge props to York. If we lived closer, I might change to York. They look like they are a true team.)

By the way YORK has literally always has good 10&Unders so where are their girls ranked in 13-14 and 15&Over categories right now?

If they aren’t high then sorry they aren’t a good team (unless you only want success at 10)

A lot of them move to NCAP.

Also NP but if every good kid needs to switch teams you don’t have a good team, however a girls Olympic Trials qualifier switching is a totally different situation. She needs higher level training partners which she will get with the NCAP boys (which are way better than Mako boys)

I don’t disagree. But I think the point getting lost is that she already achieved an incredible outcome before the switch.

People get that but are pointing out that her cohort was older kids and as those kids age out she’s left with kids her own age that not only cannot push her, but probably can’t even keep up with the basic level of training she needs.

And if you look at her times there are quite a few NCAP females that are her age that are definitely a cohort. Not to mention the ones that might be older or male.

https://swimstandards.com/rankings?page=1

She has a true training group.

It’s not just about the training cohort. The top groups from the various NCAP sites go to much faster meets outside of PVS. They had a meet in Charlottesville instead of the October open then the NOVA Sr Classic in Richmond. Going to bigger and faster meets also helps prepare you.

Anybody that’s been to Olympic Trials is qualified for the biggest USA swimming meets. Don’t delude yourself that those other meets mean anything.

Yet the NCAP meet in June had several Olympic swimmers at it. Gretchen, Kate, Alex and Clare to name a few.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are hearing rumors some big clubs aren’t attending this year and were also just told we could bring more swimmers than originally planned. Which clubs are definitely attending? Who dropped out?

There are not many big clubs at this meet. The big clubs (RMSC, NCAP, Machine, etc) all attend NCI and Turkey Claus.

NCI pulls in a lot of teams from out of state and many qualifying cuts are faster than senior champs. It certainly takes a faster time to final. It’s a really fast meet.

NCI is just an incredibly fast meet. Thankfully Turkey Claus, sport Fair winter classic, etc exist for the not incredibly fast.

To be clear, there are plenty of swimmers at the Winter Classic that are fast enough to swim at the NCI. Their teams just don't participate so they cannot, even though they have the cuts. NCI is unquestionably a much faster meet, but it's inaccurate to say that the Winter Classic is for swimmers that are "not incredibly fast".

100%! Just looking at one event (50 back) in 9-10 girls, York, Makos, and OCCS all have 9-10 girls who are as fast as girls on NCAP and RMSC. York has the two fastest 9-10 girls in all of PVS by miles. (We swim at NCAP, but huge props to York. If we lived closer, I might change to York. They look like they are a true team.)

By the way YORK has literally always has good 10&Unders so where are their girls ranked in 13-14 and 15&Over categories right now?

If they aren’t high then sorry they aren’t a good team (unless you only want success at 10)

A lot of them move to NCAP.

Also NP but if every good kid needs to switch teams you don’t have a good team, however a girls Olympic Trials qualifier switching is a totally different situation. She needs higher level training partners which she will get with the NCAP boys (which are way better than Mako boys)

I don’t disagree. But I think the point getting lost is that she already achieved an incredible outcome before the switch.

People get that but are pointing out that her cohort was older kids and as those kids age out she’s left with kids her own age that not only cannot push her, but probably can’t even keep up with the basic level of training she needs.

And if you look at her times there are quite a few NCAP females that are her age that are definitely a cohort. Not to mention the ones that might be older or male.

https://swimstandards.com/rankings?page=1

She has a true training group.

It’s not just about the training cohort. The top groups from the various NCAP sites go to much faster meets outside of PVS. They had a meet in Charlottesville instead of the October open then the NOVA Sr Classic in Richmond. Going to bigger and faster meets also helps prepare you.

Anybody that’s been to Olympic Trials is qualified for the biggest USA swimming meets. Don’t delude yourself that those other meets mean anything.

Yet the NCAP meet in June had several Olympic swimmers at it. Gretchen, Kate, Alex and Clare to name a few.

This isn’t the flex you think it is. Having the UVA/ Cavalier aquatics ladies show up to your meet (bc it’s the closest LCM that fits your Trials schedule) and dominate doesn’t make your seimmers any better. My kid’s friend met G. Walsh on deck, so it makes for a cool story! Doesn’t make anybody a better swimmer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are hearing rumors some big clubs aren’t attending this year and were also just told we could bring more swimmers than originally planned. Which clubs are definitely attending? Who dropped out?

There are not many big clubs at this meet. The big clubs (RMSC, NCAP, Machine, etc) all attend NCI and Turkey Claus.

NCI pulls in a lot of teams from out of state and many qualifying cuts are faster than senior champs. It certainly takes a faster time to final. It’s a really fast meet.

NCI is just an incredibly fast meet. Thankfully Turkey Claus, sport Fair winter classic, etc exist for the not incredibly fast.

To be clear, there are plenty of swimmers at the Winter Classic that are fast enough to swim at the NCI. Their teams just don't participate so they cannot, even though they have the cuts. NCI is unquestionably a much faster meet, but it's inaccurate to say that the Winter Classic is for swimmers that are "not incredibly fast".

100%! Just looking at one event (50 back) in 9-10 girls, York, Makos, and OCCS all have 9-10 girls who are as fast as girls on NCAP and RMSC. York has the two fastest 9-10 girls in all of PVS by miles. (We swim at NCAP, but huge props to York. If we lived closer, I might change to York. They look like they are a true team.)

By the way YORK has literally always has good 10&Unders so where are their girls ranked in 13-14 and 15&Over categories right now?

If they aren’t high then sorry they aren’t a good team (unless you only want success at 10)

A lot of them move to NCAP.

Also NP but if every good kid needs to switch teams you don’t have a good team, however a girls Olympic Trials qualifier switching is a totally different situation. She needs higher level training partners which she will get with the NCAP boys (which are way better than Mako boys)

I don’t disagree. But I think the point getting lost is that she already achieved an incredible outcome before the switch.

People get that but are pointing out that her cohort was older kids and as those kids age out she’s left with kids her own age that not only cannot push her, but probably can’t even keep up with the basic level of training she needs.

And if you look at her times there are quite a few NCAP females that are her age that are definitely a cohort. Not to mention the ones that might be older or male.

https://swimstandards.com/rankings?page=1

She has a true training group.

It’s not just about the training cohort. The top groups from the various NCAP sites go to much faster meets outside of PVS. They had a meet in Charlottesville instead of the October open then the NOVA Sr Classic in Richmond. Going to bigger and faster meets also helps prepare you.

Anybody that’s been to Olympic Trials is qualified for the biggest USA swimming meets. Don’t delude yourself that those other meets mean anything.

Yet the NCAP meet in June had several Olympic swimmers at it. Gretchen, Kate, Alex and Clare to name a few.

This isn’t the flex you think it is. Having the UVA/ Cavalier aquatics ladies show up to your meet (bc it’s the closest LCM that fits your Trials schedule) and dominate doesn’t make your seimmers any better. My kid’s friend met G. Walsh on deck, so it makes for a cool story! Doesn’t make anybody a better swimmer.

The idea that competing at a meet against other top level swimmers and competing at the PVS LC Open is equivalent is laughable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are hearing rumors some big clubs aren’t attending this year and were also just told we could bring more swimmers than originally planned. Which clubs are definitely attending? Who dropped out?

There are not many big clubs at this meet. The big clubs (RMSC, NCAP, Machine, etc) all attend NCI and Turkey Claus.

NCI pulls in a lot of teams from out of state and many qualifying cuts are faster than senior champs. It certainly takes a faster time to final. It’s a really fast meet.

NCI is just an incredibly fast meet. Thankfully Turkey Claus, sport Fair winter classic, etc exist for the not incredibly fast.

To be clear, there are plenty of swimmers at the Winter Classic that are fast enough to swim at the NCI. Their teams just don't participate so they cannot, even though they have the cuts. NCI is unquestionably a much faster meet, but it's inaccurate to say that the Winter Classic is for swimmers that are "not incredibly fast".

100%! Just looking at one event (50 back) in 9-10 girls, York, Makos, and OCCS all have 9-10 girls who are as fast as girls on NCAP and RMSC. York has the two fastest 9-10 girls in all of PVS by miles. (We swim at NCAP, but huge props to York. If we lived closer, I might change to York. They look like they are a true team.)

By the way YORK has literally always has good 10&Unders so where are their girls ranked in 13-14 and 15&Over categories right now?

If they aren’t high then sorry they aren’t a good team (unless you only want success at 10)

A lot of them move to NCAP.

Also NP but if every good kid needs to switch teams you don’t have a good team, however a girls Olympic Trials qualifier switching is a totally different situation. She needs higher level training partners which she will get with the NCAP boys (which are way better than Mako boys)

I don’t disagree. But I think the point getting lost is that she already achieved an incredible outcome before the switch.

People get that but are pointing out that her cohort was older kids and as those kids age out she’s left with kids her own age that not only cannot push her, but probably can’t even keep up with the basic level of training she needs.

And if you look at her times there are quite a few NCAP females that are her age that are definitely a cohort. Not to mention the ones that might be older or male.

https://swimstandards.com/rankings?page=1

She has a true training group.

It’s not just about the training cohort. The top groups from the various NCAP sites go to much faster meets outside of PVS. They had a meet in Charlottesville instead of the October open then the NOVA Sr Classic in Richmond. Going to bigger and faster meets also helps prepare you.

Anybody that’s been to Olympic Trials is qualified for the biggest USA swimming meets. Don’t delude yourself that those other meets mean anything.

Yet the NCAP meet in June had several Olympic swimmers at it. Gretchen, Kate, Alex and Clare to name a few.

This isn’t the flex you think it is. Having the UVA/ Cavalier aquatics ladies show up to your meet (bc it’s the closest LCM that fits your Trials schedule) and dominate doesn’t make your seimmers any better. My kid’s friend met G. Walsh on deck, so it makes for a cool story! Doesn’t make anybody a better swimmer.

The idea that competing at a meet against other top level swimmers and competing at the PVS LC Open is equivalent is laughable.

The idea that you’re competing against olmypians is laughable. They're in the same pool, but they’re not competing against you. They’re competing against the clock to gauge where they stand as Trials approach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are hearing rumors some big clubs aren’t attending this year and were also just told we could bring more swimmers than originally planned. Which clubs are definitely attending? Who dropped out?

There are not many big clubs at this meet. The big clubs (RMSC, NCAP, Machine, etc) all attend NCI and Turkey Claus.

NCI pulls in a lot of teams from out of state and many qualifying cuts are faster than senior champs. It certainly takes a faster time to final. It’s a really fast meet.

NCI is just an incredibly fast meet. Thankfully Turkey Claus, sport Fair winter classic, etc exist for the not incredibly fast.

To be clear, there are plenty of swimmers at the Winter Classic that are fast enough to swim at the NCI. Their teams just don't participate so they cannot, even though they have the cuts. NCI is unquestionably a much faster meet, but it's inaccurate to say that the Winter Classic is for swimmers that are "not incredibly fast".

100%! Just looking at one event (50 back) in 9-10 girls, York, Makos, and OCCS all have 9-10 girls who are as fast as girls on NCAP and RMSC. York has the two fastest 9-10 girls in all of PVS by miles. (We swim at NCAP, but huge props to York. If we lived closer, I might change to York. They look like they are a true team.)

By the way YORK has literally always has good 10&Unders so where are their girls ranked in 13-14 and 15&Over categories right now?

If they aren’t high then sorry they aren’t a good team (unless you only want success at 10)

A lot of them move to NCAP.

Also NP but if every good kid needs to switch teams you don’t have a good team, however a girls Olympic Trials qualifier switching is a totally different situation. She needs higher level training partners which she will get with the NCAP boys (which are way better than Mako boys)

I don’t disagree. But I think the point getting lost is that she already achieved an incredible outcome before the switch.

People get that but are pointing out that her cohort was older kids and as those kids age out she’s left with kids her own age that not only cannot push her, but probably can’t even keep up with the basic level of training she needs.

And if you look at her times there are quite a few NCAP females that are her age that are definitely a cohort. Not to mention the ones that might be older or male.

https://swimstandards.com/rankings?page=1

She has a true training group.

It’s not just about the training cohort. The top groups from the various NCAP sites go to much faster meets outside of PVS. They had a meet in Charlottesville instead of the October open then the NOVA Sr Classic in Richmond. Going to bigger and faster meets also helps prepare you.

Anybody that’s been to Olympic Trials is qualified for the biggest USA swimming meets. Don’t delude yourself that those other meets mean anything.

Yet the NCAP meet in June had several Olympic swimmers at it. Gretchen, Kate, Alex and Clare to name a few.

This isn’t the flex you think it is. Having the UVA/ Cavalier aquatics ladies show up to your meet (bc it’s the closest LCM that fits your Trials schedule) and dominate doesn’t make your seimmers any better. My kid’s friend met G. Walsh on deck, so it makes for a cool story! Doesn’t make anybody a better swimmer.

The idea that competing at a meet against other top level swimmers and competing at the PVS LC Open is equivalent is laughable.

The idea that you’re competing against olmypians is laughable. They're in the same pool, but they’re not competing against you. They’re competing against the clock to gauge where they stand as Trials approach.

It’s obvious you do not have an elite swimmer if you can’t understand that competing in meets against elite competition is beneficial to the swimmer. I’m sure you’ll come back with “actually my kid’s a Junior Nats qualifier, etc.” but we all know that’s not true because no elite swimmer thinks swimming at an Open is the same as swimming at a fast meet with cut times. But stay jealous, it’s a cute look.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are hearing rumors some big clubs aren’t attending this year and were also just told we could bring more swimmers than originally planned. Which clubs are definitely attending? Who dropped out?

There are not many big clubs at this meet. The big clubs (RMSC, NCAP, Machine, etc) all attend NCI and Turkey Claus.

NCI pulls in a lot of teams from out of state and many qualifying cuts are faster than senior champs. It certainly takes a faster time to final. It’s a really fast meet.

NCI is just an incredibly fast meet. Thankfully Turkey Claus, sport Fair winter classic, etc exist for the not incredibly fast.

To be clear, there are plenty of swimmers at the Winter Classic that are fast enough to swim at the NCI. Their teams just don't participate so they cannot, even though they have the cuts. NCI is unquestionably a much faster meet, but it's inaccurate to say that the Winter Classic is for swimmers that are "not incredibly fast".

100%! Just looking at one event (50 back) in 9-10 girls, York, Makos, and OCCS all have 9-10 girls who are as fast as girls on NCAP and RMSC. York has the two fastest 9-10 girls in all of PVS by miles. (We swim at NCAP, but huge props to York. If we lived closer, I might change to York. They look like they are a true team.)

By the way YORK has literally always has good 10&Unders so where are their girls ranked in 13-14 and 15&Over categories right now?

If they aren’t high then sorry they aren’t a good team (unless you only want success at 10)

A lot of them move to NCAP.

Also NP but if every good kid needs to switch teams you don’t have a good team, however a girls Olympic Trials qualifier switching is a totally different situation. She needs higher level training partners which she will get with the NCAP boys (which are way better than Mako boys)

I don’t disagree. But I think the point getting lost is that she already achieved an incredible outcome before the switch.

People get that but are pointing out that her cohort was older kids and as those kids age out she’s left with kids her own age that not only cannot push her, but probably can’t even keep up with the basic level of training she needs.

And if you look at her times there are quite a few NCAP females that are her age that are definitely a cohort. Not to mention the ones that might be older or male.

https://swimstandards.com/rankings?page=1

She has a true training group.

It’s not just about the training cohort. The top groups from the various NCAP sites go to much faster meets outside of PVS. They had a meet in Charlottesville instead of the October open then the NOVA Sr Classic in Richmond. Going to bigger and faster meets also helps prepare you.

Anybody that’s been to Olympic Trials is qualified for the biggest USA swimming meets. Don’t delude yourself that those other meets mean anything.

Yet the NCAP meet in June had several Olympic swimmers at it. Gretchen, Kate, Alex and Clare to name a few.

This isn’t the flex you think it is. Having the UVA/ Cavalier aquatics ladies show up to your meet (bc it’s the closest LCM that fits your Trials schedule) and dominate doesn’t make your seimmers any better. My kid’s friend met G. Walsh on deck, so it makes for a cool story! Doesn’t make anybody a better swimmer.

The idea that competing at a meet against other top level swimmers and competing at the PVS LC Open is equivalent is laughable.

The idea that you’re competing against olmypians is laughable. They're in the same pool, but they’re not competing against you. They’re competing against the clock to gauge where they stand as Trials approach.

It’s obvious you do not have an elite swimmer if you can’t understand that competing in meets against elite competition is beneficial to the swimmer. I’m sure you’ll come back with “actually my kid’s a Junior Nats qualifier, etc.” but we all know that’s not true because no elite swimmer thinks swimming at an Open is the same as swimming at a fast meet with cut times. But stay jealous, it’s a cute look.

My kid isn’t close to junior nats. I’m just speaking from personal experience.