Toxic Masculinity

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I honestly think the biggest “tell” when it comes to toxic masculinity is changing diapers. Toxic men absolutely will not do it under any circumstances. They feel it is beneath them. So if your husband changes his share of diapers without any cajoling, then you probably won’t need to worry about toxic masculinity in any other area.

I’m going to guess this type of father isn’t in the picture whatsoever anyway. This isn’t going to be some big revelation that becomes obvious after a baby is born.

Your are right. The toxic masculinity fathers are those who bring round a box of diapers to their baby mommas rather than provide financial support for them.

But women love to procreate with men like this so, what can you do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still feel there is value in educating girls to recognize and avoid men who display the telltale signs of toxic masculinity.

Nevertheless, the onus is clearly on men to change/alter/correct their behaviors. Western culture defines specific characteristics to fit the patriarchal ideal masculine construct. The socialization of masculine ideals starts in boys’ at a young age and defines ideal masculinity as related to toughness, stoicism, heterosexism, self-sufficient attitudes and lack of emotional sensitivity and of connectedness. Boys learn to be men from the men in their lives, from their own experiences navigating our social norms, and from the large social and cultural context. Boys live under intensified pressure to display so-called gender-appropriate behaviors according to an anachronistic ideal male code.

Looking at the development of aggression throughout childhood, we know that not only do aggressive behaviors can emerge at an early age, they also tend to persist over time, without early prevention intervention. The socialization of the male characteristics mentioned above also onsets at an early age making it a prime time-period for prevention intervention.

What specific parenting techniques can we turn employ, to thwart toxic masculinity?

But you think girls / people can tell the difference between being a strong protective male and being a toxic male. There pinkies the problem.

Women will be blamed for not being clairvoyant and knowing because Larlo was an “athlete” or “hunted” or “had 2 divorced parents and watched a lot of football” or did “MMA” of course he 30 years later would smack her in an argument or cheat. “So many red flags” and… it’s bullshit. The red flag/green flag BS is gaslighting young women into believing they can predict future behavior. You can’t.

On the most basic of levels, I think we can all agree: if a man hunts animals or watches MMA, both are huge, obvious, red-flags.

Ridiculous. Ridiculous and stupid. My H not only hunts and watches MMA fighting, but is a former MMA fighter himself, in addition to being a US Army Ranger and combat veteran with three Purple Hearts. Are those red flags, too?


Seriously, women are our own worst enemies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Toxic behavior from ANY gender means the inability to control one’s emotions. Overly aggressive behavior like physical or verbal intimidation when the situation does not call for it, being a jerk because you can, entitled behavior regarding sex, attention, money, affection, manipulation of someone’s emotions, violence in the form of hitting, pushing, shoving, throwing things, damaging property etc., crying or threatening to harm oneself to get one’s way.

As you can see I don’t believe in toxic male behavior, I believe in toxic behaviors. Being strong, assertive, aggressive in certain situations like sports/business, not being a pushover, and showing mental toughness are great traits for all genders.

With all due respect, this thread is about toxic masculinity.

Do better.

I am doing better, as someone raising both sexes I refuse to let them buy into social constructs of any type or to let the world convince them that toxicity is somehow gender based.

Who carries out most rapes? Homicides? Sexual harassment? Wars?

Who are more likely to abandon their children? Domestic violence?

The answer is nowhere near 50/50. Around the globe.

Sorry, your line sounds good, but it absolutely does not match objective reality.

Herein lies the problem you are equating “toxic masculinity” akin to rape and violence. This goes a disservice to both genders as we are now seeing clear evidence that these bad behaviors are not exclusive to men. The real problem is that women were taught to be submissive, to not show strength to put someone else’s needs above their own. That their bodies and what they do with them is somehow a subject for debate. Framing this in the lens of toxic masculinity does a disservice to real core of the problem. Therefore my point stands, I teach all my children about toxic traits, how to avoid them, stand up for themselves, be assertive, strong, and not let anyone dictate who they are or how they should behave based on their gender.

This is again putting the onus on women to control men’s behavior. Men will behave badly, so women need to prevent that toxicity.

Research has shown over and over again that “educating” women does not prevent rapes, assault, or violence. The only thing that has been shown by unbiased research is 1. Men being held accountable and 2. Men calling out other men and putting social pressure on them.

Unfortunately data also shows that once a man’s beliefs are solidified in early adulthood, they are unlikely to change. We basically have to give up on current generations of males and work on the next ones being born.

[Anonymous]

I think kids/teens are still learning and make lots of stupid mistakes that could lead down a toxic path. I see it in our super woke private school - boys calling boys fa*gots or pu*sies for showing emotion, calling girls whores or sluts if they don’t reciprocate affection, rating girls, creating or consuming deepfake porn. Repeating the lie that Kamala Harris slept her way to the top. These are all teachable moments, but if you’re not paying attention - talking to your kids, monitoring their social media (certainly much of YouTube content is unhealthy for teen boys. Porn is toxic), then your son may be swept up in unhealthy behaviors as an adult. If you think it doesn’t happen at your school or your kid doesn’t come in contact with it (whether they partake or not), you are naive. It a hard time to be a boy and want to do the right thing, but feel peer pressure to keep your mouth shut. Lean in a support them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think kids/teens are still learning and make lots of stupid mistakes that could lead down a toxic path. I see it in our super woke private school - boys calling boys fa*gots or pu*sies for showing emotion, calling girls whores or sluts if they don’t reciprocate affection, rating girls, creating or consuming deepfake porn. Repeating the lie that Kamala Harris slept her way to the top. These are all teachable moments, but if you’re not paying attention - talking to your kids, monitoring their social media (certainly much of YouTube content is unhealthy for teen boys. Porn is toxic), then your son may be swept up in unhealthy behaviors as an adult. If you think it doesn’t happen at your school or your kid doesn’t come in contact with it (whether they partake or not), you are naive. It a hard time to be a boy and want to do the right thing, but feel peer pressure to keep your mouth shut. Lean in a support them.

Lean in and support them.

[Anonymous]

It's not real. It's fake jingoist garbage invented by the DEI industry on college campuses so those underwater basket weaving degreed profs can have jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course it is real. There is evidence everywhere.

Besides raising boys to respect females as equal, to have and exy the range of feelings (including fear and tears), to seek consent before touching another else’s body for your own gratification , they need time role models who live this way.

That means dads who also care for children and women who contribute to society outside the home, and contribute to their household financially.

Please explain how the rather misogynist sentiment expressed in bold helps dissuade toxic masculinity.

Dp
Boys with moms who work outside the home are more likely to participate in household chores and treating women as equals. Boys with sahms are more likely to expect certain things as ‘women’s jobs’ like cleaning, cooking and child rearing. So yeah actually what pp says is true, being a working mom is a helpful step in interrupting boxing masculinity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course it is real. There is evidence everywhere.

Besides raising boys to respect females as equal, to have and exy the range of feelings (including fear and tears), to seek consent before touching another else’s body for your own gratification , they need time role models who live this way.

That means dads who also care for children and women who contribute to society outside the home, and contribute to their household financially.

Please explain how the rather misogynist sentiment expressed in bold helps dissuade toxic masculinity.

Dp
Boys with moms who work outside the home are more likely to participate in household chores and treating women as equals. Boys with sahms are more likely to expect certain things as ‘women’s jobs’ like cleaning, cooking and child rearing. So yeah actually what pp says is true, being a working mom is a helpful step in interrupting boxing masculinity.

Maybe working moms make everyone do chores to get the housework done, and that SAH moms can assign chores and achieve the same thing. It's the parents not expecting kids to do their share of housework that's the problem.

Besides, in this area- how many hired house cleaners are women? There's an example of a group of grown women doing housework that the kids interpret as not worthy of their time or their parents' time.
In this area?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course it is real. There is evidence everywhere.

Besides raising boys to respect females as equal, to have and exy the range of feelings (including fear and tears), to seek consent before touching another else’s body for your own gratification , they need time role models who live this way.

That means dads who also care for children and women who contribute to society outside the home, and contribute to their household financially.

Please explain how the rather misogynist sentiment expressed in bold helps dissuade toxic masculinity.

Dp
Boys with moms who work outside the home are more likely to participate in household chores and treating women as equals. Boys with sahms are more likely to expect certain things as ‘women’s jobs’ like cleaning, cooking and child rearing. So yeah actually what pp says is true, being a working mom is a helpful step in interrupting boxing masculinity.

Maybe working moms make everyone do chores to get the housework done, and that SAH moms can assign chores and achieve the same thing. It's the parents not expecting kids to do their share of housework that's the problem.

Besides, in this area- how many hired house cleaners are women? There's an example of a group of grown women doing housework that the kids interpret as not worthy of their time or their parents' time.
In this area?

This is the shitty thing about suggestions to counter toxic masculinity, so many of them put the blame and/or onus on women (if women sah they are perpetuating it etc). I think women heavily contribute but we talk more about what women can do than what men can.

Idk if this is “correct” but I’m raising 3 boys and what I’ve always tried to reiterate is that while we may code things as “female” and “male” the masculine coded things aren’t inherently more respectable or important than the “female” coded things.

We don’t exist is a vacuum so I don’t expect them to ignore that these social norms or cultural expectations exist but I think believing that the things women are associated with are worth less and don’t deserve respect is a huge issue that contributes to a toxic display of masculinity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course it is real. There is evidence everywhere.

Besides raising boys to respect females as equal, to have and exy the range of feelings (including fear and tears), to seek consent before touching another else’s body for your own gratification , they need time role models who live this way.

That means dads who also care for children and women who contribute to society outside the home, and contribute to their household financially.

Please explain how the rather misogynist sentiment expressed in bold helps dissuade toxic masculinity.

Dp
Boys with moms who work outside the home are more likely to participate in household chores and treating women as equals. Boys with sahms are more likely to expect certain things as ‘women’s jobs’ like cleaning, cooking and child rearing. So yeah actually what pp says is true, being a working mom is a helpful step in interrupting boxing masculinity.

Maybe working moms make everyone do chores to get the housework done, and that SAH moms can assign chores and achieve the same thing. It's the parents not expecting kids to do their share of housework that's the problem.

Besides, in this area- how many hired house cleaners are women? There's an example of a group of grown women doing housework that the kids interpret as not worthy of their time or their parents' time.
In this area?

This is the shitty thing about suggestions to counter toxic masculinity, so many of them put the blame and/or onus on women (if women sah they are perpetuating it etc). I think women heavily contribute but we talk more about what women can do than what men can.

Idk if this is “correct” but I’m raising 3 boys and what I’ve always tried to reiterate is that while we may code things as “female” and “male” the masculine coded things aren’t inherently more respectable or important than the “female” coded things.

We don’t exist is a vacuum so I don’t expect them to ignore that these social norms or cultural expectations exist but I think believing that the things women are associated with are worth less and don’t deserve respect is a huge issue that contributes to a toxic display of masculinity.

+1

This is my thought process as well. I think a lot of women who think they are empowered and progressive are often unintentionally misogynistic, in that they are the chief de-valuers of stereotypically or traditionally female pursuits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still feel there is value in educating girls to recognize and avoid men who display the telltale signs of toxic masculinity.

Nevertheless, the onus is clearly on men to change/alter/correct their behaviors. Western culture defines specific characteristics to fit the patriarchal ideal masculine construct. The socialization of masculine ideals starts in boys’ at a young age and defines ideal masculinity as related to toughness, stoicism, heterosexism, self-sufficient attitudes and lack of emotional sensitivity and of connectedness. Boys learn to be men from the men in their lives, from their own experiences navigating our social norms, and from the large social and cultural context. Boys live under intensified pressure to display so-called gender-appropriate behaviors according to an anachronistic ideal male code.

Looking at the development of aggression throughout childhood, we know that not only do aggressive behaviors can emerge at an early age, they also tend to persist over time, without early prevention intervention. The socialization of the male characteristics mentioned above also onsets at an early age making it a prime time-period for prevention intervention.

What specific parenting techniques can we turn employ, to thwart toxic masculinity?

But you think girls / people can tell the difference between being a strong protective male and being a toxic male. There pinkies the problem.

Women will be blamed for not being clairvoyant and knowing because Larlo was an “athlete” or “hunted” or “had 2 divorced parents and watched a lot of football” or did “MMA” of course he 30 years later would smack her in an argument or cheat. “So many red flags” and… it’s bullshit. The red flag/green flag BS is gaslighting young women into believing they can predict future behavior. You can’t.

On the most basic of levels, I think we can all agree: if a man hunts animals or watches MMA, both are huge, obvious, red-flags.

Ridiculous. Ridiculous and stupid. My H not only hunts and watches MMA fighting, but is a former MMA fighter himself, in addition to being a US Army Ranger and combat veteran with three Purple Hearts. Are those red flags, too?


Seriously, women are our own worst enemies.

Sorry, not sorry. All of those are huge gigantic RED FLAGS for toxic masculinity. They just are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I honestly think the biggest “tell” when it comes to toxic masculinity is changing diapers. Toxic men absolutely will not do it under any circumstances. They feel it is beneath them. So if your husband changes his share of diapers without any cajoling, then you probably won’t need to worry about toxic masculinity in any other area.

I’m going to guess this type of father isn’t in the picture whatsoever anyway. This isn’t going to be some big revelation that becomes obvious after a baby is born.

Your are right. The toxic masculinity fathers are those who bring round a box of diapers to their baby mommas rather than provide financial support for them.

But women love to procreate with men like this so, what can you do.

Work hard, pay taxes, and keep supporting these less-than-discerning women and babies born of toxic masculinity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still feel there is value in educating girls to recognize and avoid men who display the telltale signs of toxic masculinity.

Nevertheless, the onus is clearly on men to change/alter/correct their behaviors. Western culture defines specific characteristics to fit the patriarchal ideal masculine construct. The socialization of masculine ideals starts in boys’ at a young age and defines ideal masculinity as related to toughness, stoicism, heterosexism, self-sufficient attitudes and lack of emotional sensitivity and of connectedness. Boys learn to be men from the men in their lives, from their own experiences navigating our social norms, and from the large social and cultural context. Boys live under intensified pressure to display so-called gender-appropriate behaviors according to an anachronistic ideal male code.

Looking at the development of aggression throughout childhood, we know that not only do aggressive behaviors can emerge at an early age, they also tend to persist over time, without early prevention intervention. The socialization of the male characteristics mentioned above also onsets at an early age making it a prime time-period for prevention intervention.

What specific parenting techniques can we turn employ, to thwart toxic masculinity?

But you think girls / people can tell the difference between being a strong protective male and being a toxic male. There pinkies the problem.

Women will be blamed for not being clairvoyant and knowing because Larlo was an “athlete” or “hunted” or “had 2 divorced parents and watched a lot of football” or did “MMA” of course he 30 years later would smack her in an argument or cheat. “So many red flags” and… it’s bullshit. The red flag/green flag BS is gaslighting young women into believing they can predict future behavior. You can’t.

On the most basic of levels, I think we can all agree: if a man hunts animals or watches MMA, both are huge, obvious, red-flags.

Ridiculous. Ridiculous and stupid. My H not only hunts and watches MMA fighting, but is a former MMA fighter himself, in addition to being a US Army Ranger and combat veteran with three Purple Hearts. Are those red flags, too?


Seriously, women are our own worst enemies.

I was listening to congressional testimony about the Secret Service clusterf**k at the Trump shooting. One perosn was former head of a major security firm, one was retired from Secret Service, and one of the congressional reps was a former Army ranger. The frisson from their testosterone was palpable -- and a little shocking. Men seem to be so feminized (is that a word?) that even people talking in military and security jargon was a little unsettling. They were saying anything wrong-- it just felt very masculine and very unfamiliar.

[Anonymous]

While the burden to de-program toxic masculinity should never fall on womyn, moms can help fight by differentially opposing toxic masculinity in their sons.

- teach them baking
- sign them up for ballet
- have them learn knitting or crocheting

But most of all; above all else: hammer home that women demand and deserve full consent. Every time; in full:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still feel there is value in educating girls to recognize and avoid men who display the telltale signs of toxic masculinity.

Nevertheless, the onus is clearly on men to change/alter/correct their behaviors. Western culture defines specific characteristics to fit the patriarchal ideal masculine construct. The socialization of masculine ideals starts in boys’ at a young age and defines ideal masculinity as related to toughness, stoicism, heterosexism, self-sufficient attitudes and lack of emotional sensitivity and of connectedness. Boys learn to be men from the men in their lives, from their own experiences navigating our social norms, and from the large social and cultural context. Boys live under intensified pressure to display so-called gender-appropriate behaviors according to an anachronistic ideal male code.

Looking at the development of aggression throughout childhood, we know that not only do aggressive behaviors can emerge at an early age, they also tend to persist over time, without early prevention intervention. The socialization of the male characteristics mentioned above also onsets at an early age making it a prime time-period for prevention intervention.

What specific parenting techniques can we turn employ, to thwart toxic masculinity?

But you think girls / people can tell the difference between being a strong protective male and being a toxic male. There pinkies the problem.

Women will be blamed for not being clairvoyant and knowing because Larlo was an “athlete” or “hunted” or “had 2 divorced parents and watched a lot of football” or did “MMA” of course he 30 years later would smack her in an argument or cheat. “So many red flags” and… it’s bullshit. The red flag/green flag BS is gaslighting young women into believing they can predict future behavior. You can’t.

On the most basic of levels, I think we can all agree: if a man hunts animals or watches MMA, both are huge, obvious, red-flags.

Ridiculous. Ridiculous and stupid. My H not only hunts and watches MMA fighting, but is a former MMA fighter himself, in addition to being a US Army Ranger and combat veteran with three Purple Hearts. Are those red flags, too?


Seriously, women are our own worst enemies.

Sorry, not sorry. All of those are huge gigantic RED FLAGS for toxic masculinity. They just are.

NP

And you are a giant walking, talking red flag for being an exhausting, insufferable bore. Your strung-together words and gobbledygook aren’t significant or compelling in any way. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.