What happens when religion and ideology conflict?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Not believing in one portion of your religion does not create a whole new religion. GMAFB.

The only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is to get your religion out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what happens with other people’s genitals.

I agree with you - the separation of Church and State is sacred and lines have been blurred (neither religion nor ideological beliefs belong in public schools)....but to my point...the only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is for you to also accept that some people have the religious right to believe in and teach their children on cis-genderism...to get your ideological beliefs out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what other people believe when it comes to gender identity.

People having a sense of self isn’t “ideological beliefs”.

You can believe whatever you want at home. If you start taking steps to hurt others because of your “beliefs”, that’s an issue.

Agree to disagree. Because IMHO "sense of self" is a belief.

Your sense of self refers to your perception of the collection of characteristics that define you. Personality traits, abilities, likes and dislikes, your belief system or moral code, and the things that motivate you — these all contribute to self-image or your unique identity as a person.
Source: https://www.healthline.com/health/sense-of-self

But here's the thing, either way I respect all beliefs. Get it?

“Sense of self” is not an “ideological belief”.

Of course it is a belief. What do you think it is? Science?

There are all kinds of “beliefs”. It’s not an ideological belief.

So we all agree that it's a belief? Ideological is an adjective that describes political, cultural, or religious beliefs.

So here's the thing -- saying gender identity is an ideological belief is not "wrong" - it's all about the context and perspective. If you are referring to gender identity based on political, cultural, or religious beliefs...then yes, it is an ideological belief.

So based on your political, cultural, or religious beliefs you argue that gender identity is not an ideological belief. But based on my political, cultural, or religious beliefs I argue that gender identity ISan ideological belief.

...and we have to agree to disagree.

^correction

Well that’s the problem isn’t it? It is not OK to agree to disagree on this topic.

Some people refuse to believe feelings and body modifications change individuals from female to male, while others insist that the government impose policies in accordance with this belief.

The belief in something does not make it true, does not make it right or wrong.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications does not change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.

They are both beliefs, neither one is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.

So it is everyone's right to refuse to believe in one or the other...whether based on religious or ideological beliefs. And the fact that neither side can see this is what is frustrating....and what is polarizing our nation more and more.

Both sides must learn to tolerate and accept one another. To respect one another.

No, you are conflating sex and gender. Sex never changes. You are always XX or XY.

You can believe what you want as long as you are not infringing on other people’s rights (liberty, privacy).

You can legally be a jerk but don’t be surprised that people will call you out about it.

I stand corrected and agree...my above statements where confusing. Biological sex at birth does not change. The gender identity tied to the biological sex at birth is a disputable issue. It is the belief whether gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth or not that is an issue, and what I mean when I state neither belief is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.

I believe that gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
Another person may believe that gender identity is not tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is also not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.

But both people must tolerate and accept each other's beliefs - respect each other's beliefs. That's all I am getting at. Neither side is doing this right now.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Not believing in one portion of your religion does not create a whole new religion. GMAFB.

The only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is to get your religion out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what happens with other people’s genitals.

I agree with you - the separation of Church and State is sacred and lines have been blurred (neither religion nor ideological beliefs belong in public schools)....but to my point...the only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is for you to also accept that some people have the religious right to believe in and teach their children on cis-genderism...to get your ideological beliefs out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what other people believe when it comes to gender identity.

People having a sense of self isn’t “ideological beliefs”.

You can believe whatever you want at home. If you start taking steps to hurt others because of your “beliefs”, that’s an issue.

Agree to disagree. Because IMHO "sense of self" is a belief.

Your sense of self refers to your perception of the collection of characteristics that define you. Personality traits, abilities, likes and dislikes, your belief system or moral code, and the things that motivate you — these all contribute to self-image or your unique identity as a person.
Source: https://www.healthline.com/health/sense-of-self

But here's the thing, either way I respect all beliefs. Get it?

“Sense of self” is not an “ideological belief”.

Of course it is a belief. What do you think it is? Science?

There are all kinds of “beliefs”. It’s not an ideological belief.

So we all agree that it's a belief? Ideological is an adjective that describes political, cultural, or religious beliefs.

So here's the thing -- saying gender identity is an ideological belief is not "wrong" - it's all about the context and perspective. If you are referring to gender identity based on political, cultural, or religious beliefs...then yes, it is an ideological belief.

So based on your political, cultural, or religious beliefs you argue that gender identity is not an ideological belief. But based on my political, cultural, or religious beliefs I argue that gender identity ISan ideological belief.

...and we have to agree to disagree.

^correction

Well that’s the problem isn’t it? It is not OK to agree to disagree on this topic.

Some people refuse to believe feelings and body modifications change individuals from female to male, while others insist that the government impose policies in accordance with this belief.

The belief in something does not make it true, does not make it right or wrong.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications does not change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.

They are both beliefs, neither one is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.

So it is everyone's right to refuse to believe in one or the other...whether based on religious or ideological beliefs. And the fact that neither side can see this is what is frustrating....and what is polarizing our nation more and more.

Both sides must learn to tolerate and accept one another. To respect one another.

No, you are conflating sex and gender. Sex never changes. You are always XX or XY.

You can believe what you want as long as you are not infringing on other people’s rights (liberty, privacy).

You can legally be a jerk but don’t be surprised that people will call you out about it.

That's called discrimination. Calling someone a jerk and any other derogatory foul language or disrespectful tone for simply standing up for their beliefs is what is wrong. That is no different than someone who is anti-trans using derogatory foul language or disrespectful tone toward trans people who are simply standing up for their beliefs which is wrong.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The difference is that religion specifically involves the metaphysical or a supernatural power.

Obviously there is overlap and some ideologies are really religious in nature.

not all religions involve a metaphysical or a supernatural power.

Take your pedantry to every dictionary publisher lady. God you one upping hall monitors are the worst.

Does Buddhism have characteristics of both a religious and a philosophical system? Yes.

I am UU and we do not have a metaphysical or supernatural power.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Not believing in one portion of your religion does not create a whole new religion. GMAFB.

The only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is to get your religion out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what happens with other people’s genitals.

I agree with you - the separation of Church and State is sacred and lines have been blurred (neither religion nor ideological beliefs belong in public schools)....but to my point...the only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is for you to also accept that some people have the religious right to believe in and teach their children on cis-genderism...to get your ideological beliefs out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what other people believe when it comes to gender identity.

People having a sense of self isn’t “ideological beliefs”.

You can believe whatever you want at home. If you start taking steps to hurt others because of your “beliefs”, that’s an issue.

Agree to disagree. Because IMHO "sense of self" is a belief.

Your sense of self refers to your perception of the collection of characteristics that define you. Personality traits, abilities, likes and dislikes, your belief system or moral code, and the things that motivate you — these all contribute to self-image or your unique identity as a person.
Source: https://www.healthline.com/health/sense-of-self

But here's the thing, either way I respect all beliefs. Get it?

“Sense of self” is not an “ideological belief”.

Of course it is a belief. What do you think it is? Science?

There are all kinds of “beliefs”. It’s not an ideological belief.

So we all agree that it's a belief? Ideological is an adjective that describes political, cultural, or religious beliefs.

So here's the thing -- saying gender identity is an ideological belief is not "wrong" - it's all about the context and perspective. If you are referring to gender identity based on political, cultural, or religious beliefs...then yes, it is an ideological belief.

So based on your political, cultural, or religious beliefs you argue that gender identity is not an ideological belief. But based on my political, cultural, or religious beliefs I argue that gender identity ISan ideological belief.

...and we have to agree to disagree.

^correction

Well that’s the problem isn’t it? It is not OK to agree to disagree on this topic.

Some people refuse to believe feelings and body modifications change individuals from female to male, while others insist that the government impose policies in accordance with this belief.

The belief in something does not make it true, does not make it right or wrong.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications does not change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.

They are both beliefs, neither one is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.

So it is everyone's right to refuse to believe in one or the other...whether based on religious or ideological beliefs. And the fact that neither side can see this is what is frustrating....and what is polarizing our nation more and more.

Both sides must learn to tolerate and accept one another. To respect one another.

No, you are conflating sex and gender. Sex never changes. You are always XX or XY.

You can believe what you want as long as you are not infringing on other people’s rights (liberty, privacy).

You can legally be a jerk but don’t be surprised that people will call you out about it.

I stand corrected and agree...my above statements where confusing. Biological sex at birth does not change. The gender identity tied to the biological sex at birth is a disputable issue. It is the belief whether gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth or not that is an issue, and what I mean when I state neither belief is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.

I believe that gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
Another person may believe that gender identity is not tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is also not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.

But both people must tolerate and accept each other's beliefs - respect each other's beliefs. That's all I am getting at. Neither side is doing this right now.

It all depends on how you are expressing your beliefs.

If someone believes that slavery is justified to what extent should that be tolerated?

[Anonymous]

Tbh, UU is not a religion per se.
It’s just a stopover from believer to atheism. Usually people who grew up enjoying church music but reject the theology behind it and sort of prefer a humanism approach of being kind to others but place no value in judging right from wrong based on Biblical standards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not believing in one portion of your religion does not create a whole new religion. GMAFB.

The only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is to get your religion out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what happens with other people’s genitals.

I agree with you - the separation of Church and State is sacred and lines have been blurred (neither religion nor ideological beliefs belong in public schools)....but to my point...the only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is for you to also accept that some people have the religious right to believe in and teach their children on cis-genderism...to get your ideological beliefs out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what other people believe when it comes to gender identity.

People having a sense of self isn’t “ideological beliefs”.

You can believe whatever you want at home. If you start taking steps to hurt others because of your “beliefs”, that’s an issue.

Agree to disagree. Because IMHO "sense of self" is a belief.

Your sense of self refers to your perception of the collection of characteristics that define you. Personality traits, abilities, likes and dislikes, your belief system or moral code, and the things that motivate you — these all contribute to self-image or your unique identity as a person.
Source: https://www.healthline.com/health/sense-of-self

But here's the thing, either way I respect all beliefs. Get it?

“Sense of self” is not an “ideological belief”.

Of course it is a belief. What do you think it is? Science?

There are all kinds of “beliefs”. It’s not an ideological belief.

So we all agree that it's a belief? Ideological is an adjective that describes political, cultural, or religious beliefs.

So here's the thing -- saying gender identity is an ideological belief is not "wrong" - it's all about the context and perspective. If you are referring to gender identity based on political, cultural, or religious beliefs...then yes, it is an ideological belief.

So based on your political, cultural, or religious beliefs you argue that gender identity is not an ideological belief. But based on my political, cultural, or religious beliefs I argue that gender identity ISan ideological belief.

...and we have to agree to disagree.

^correction

Well that’s the problem isn’t it? It is not OK to agree to disagree on this topic.

Some people refuse to believe feelings and body modifications change individuals from female to male, while others insist that the government impose policies in accordance with this belief.

The belief in something does not make it true, does not make it right or wrong.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications does not change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.

They are both beliefs, neither one is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.

So it is everyone's right to refuse to believe in one or the other...whether based on religious or ideological beliefs. And the fact that neither side can see this is what is frustrating....and what is polarizing our nation more and more.

Both sides must learn to tolerate and accept one another. To respect one another.

No, you are conflating sex and gender. Sex never changes. You are always XX or XY.

You can believe what you want as long as you are not infringing on other people’s rights (liberty, privacy).

You can legally be a jerk but don’t be surprised that people will call you out about it.

That's called discrimination. Calling someone a jerk and any other derogatory foul language or disrespectful tone for simply standing up for their beliefs is what is wrong. That is no different than someone who is anti-trans using derogatory foul language or disrespectful tone toward trans people who are simply standing up for their beliefs which is wrong.

But that’s my belief: bigots are jerks. Can’t I stand up for my beliefs?

Not all “beliefs” are equal. Example: Christians who thought slavery was god’s plan.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not believing in one portion of your religion does not create a whole new religion. GMAFB.

The only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is to get your religion out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what happens with other people’s genitals.

I agree with you - the separation of Church and State is sacred and lines have been blurred (neither religion nor ideological beliefs belong in public schools)....but to my point...the only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is for you to also accept that some people have the religious right to believe in and teach their children on cis-genderism...to get your ideological beliefs out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what other people believe when it comes to gender identity.

People having a sense of self isn’t “ideological beliefs”.

You can believe whatever you want at home. If you start taking steps to hurt others because of your “beliefs”, that’s an issue.

Agree to disagree. Because IMHO "sense of self" is a belief.

Your sense of self refers to your perception of the collection of characteristics that define you. Personality traits, abilities, likes and dislikes, your belief system or moral code, and the things that motivate you — these all contribute to self-image or your unique identity as a person.
Source: https://www.healthline.com/health/sense-of-self

But here's the thing, either way I respect all beliefs. Get it?

“Sense of self” is not an “ideological belief”.

Of course it is a belief. What do you think it is? Science?

There are all kinds of “beliefs”. It’s not an ideological belief.

So we all agree that it's a belief? Ideological is an adjective that describes political, cultural, or religious beliefs.

So here's the thing -- saying gender identity is an ideological belief is not "wrong" - it's all about the context and perspective. If you are referring to gender identity based on political, cultural, or religious beliefs...then yes, it is an ideological belief.

So based on your political, cultural, or religious beliefs you argue that gender identity is not an ideological belief. But based on my political, cultural, or religious beliefs I argue that gender identity ISan ideological belief.

...and we have to agree to disagree.

^correction

Well that’s the problem isn’t it? It is not OK to agree to disagree on this topic.

Some people refuse to believe feelings and body modifications change individuals from female to male, while others insist that the government impose policies in accordance with this belief.

The belief in something does not make it true, does not make it right or wrong.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications does not change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.

They are both beliefs, neither one is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.

So it is everyone's right to refuse to believe in one or the other...whether based on religious or ideological beliefs. And the fact that neither side can see this is what is frustrating....and what is polarizing our nation more and more.

Both sides must learn to tolerate and accept one another. To respect one another.

No, you are conflating sex and gender. Sex never changes. You are always XX or XY.

You can believe what you want as long as you are not infringing on other people’s rights (liberty, privacy).

You can legally be a jerk but don’t be surprised that people will call you out about it.

I stand corrected and agree...my above statements where confusing. Biological sex at birth does not change. The gender identity tied to the biological sex at birth is a disputable issue. It is the belief whether gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth or not that is an issue, and what I mean when I state neither belief is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.

I believe that gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
Another person may believe that gender identity is not tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is also not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.

But both people must tolerate and accept each other's beliefs - respect each other's beliefs. That's all I am getting at. Neither side is doing this right now.

It all depends on how you are expressing your beliefs.

If someone believes that slavery is justified to what extent should that be tolerated?

To that end—if someone believed that murdering a pre-born human that has a beating heart and is capable of feeling pain is perfectly okay, to what extent should this be tolerated?
What about a botched abortion where the baby is delivered but is still breathing? Is it okay to kill it then, since the mom had meant to abort it? Should that be tolerated? (virginias former Governor Northam thinks it’s worth a “discussion” with the mom while the baby is kept comfortable. Do you tolerate that?)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tbh, UU is not a religion per se.
It’s just a stopover from believer to atheism. Usually people who grew up enjoying church music but reject the theology behind it and sort of prefer a humanism approach of being kind to others but place no value in judging right from wrong based on Biblical standards.

What are UU beliefs on what happens after you die?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not believing in one portion of your religion does not create a whole new religion. GMAFB.

The only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is to get your religion out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what happens with other people’s genitals.

I agree with you - the separation of Church and State is sacred and lines have been blurred (neither religion nor ideological beliefs belong in public schools)....but to my point...the only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is for you to also accept that some people have the religious right to believe in and teach their children on cis-genderism...to get your ideological beliefs out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what other people believe when it comes to gender identity.

People having a sense of self isn’t “ideological beliefs”.

You can believe whatever you want at home. If you start taking steps to hurt others because of your “beliefs”, that’s an issue.

Agree to disagree. Because IMHO "sense of self" is a belief.

Your sense of self refers to your perception of the collection of characteristics that define you. Personality traits, abilities, likes and dislikes, your belief system or moral code, and the things that motivate you — these all contribute to self-image or your unique identity as a person.
Source: https://www.healthline.com/health/sense-of-self

But here's the thing, either way I respect all beliefs. Get it?

“Sense of self” is not an “ideological belief”.

Of course it is a belief. What do you think it is? Science?

There are all kinds of “beliefs”. It’s not an ideological belief.

So we all agree that it's a belief? Ideological is an adjective that describes political, cultural, or religious beliefs.

So here's the thing -- saying gender identity is an ideological belief is not "wrong" - it's all about the context and perspective. If you are referring to gender identity based on political, cultural, or religious beliefs...then yes, it is an ideological belief.

So based on your political, cultural, or religious beliefs you argue that gender identity is not an ideological belief. But based on my political, cultural, or religious beliefs I argue that gender identity ISan ideological belief.

...and we have to agree to disagree.

^correction

Well that’s the problem isn’t it? It is not OK to agree to disagree on this topic.

Some people refuse to believe feelings and body modifications change individuals from female to male, while others insist that the government impose policies in accordance with this belief.

The belief in something does not make it true, does not make it right or wrong.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications does not change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.

They are both beliefs, neither one is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.

So it is everyone's right to refuse to believe in one or the other...whether based on religious or ideological beliefs. And the fact that neither side can see this is what is frustrating....and what is polarizing our nation more and more.

Both sides must learn to tolerate and accept one another. To respect one another.

No, you are conflating sex and gender. Sex never changes. You are always XX or XY.

You can believe what you want as long as you are not infringing on other people’s rights (liberty, privacy).

You can legally be a jerk but don’t be surprised that people will call you out about it.

I stand corrected and agree...my above statements where confusing. Biological sex at birth does not change. The gender identity tied to the biological sex at birth is a disputable issue. It is the belief whether gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth or not that is an issue, and what I mean when I state neither belief is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.

I believe that gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
Another person may believe that gender identity is not tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is also not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.

But both people must tolerate and accept each other's beliefs - respect each other's beliefs. That's all I am getting at. Neither side is doing this right now.

It all depends on how you are expressing your beliefs.

If someone believes that slavery is justified to what extent should that be tolerated?

That's comparing apples and oranges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not believing in one portion of your religion does not create a whole new religion. GMAFB.

The only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is to get your religion out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what happens with other people’s genitals.

I agree with you - the separation of Church and State is sacred and lines have been blurred (neither religion nor ideological beliefs belong in public schools)....but to my point...the only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is for you to also accept that some people have the religious right to believe in and teach their children on cis-genderism...to get your ideological beliefs out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what other people believe when it comes to gender identity.

People having a sense of self isn’t “ideological beliefs”.

You can believe whatever you want at home. If you start taking steps to hurt others because of your “beliefs”, that’s an issue.

Agree to disagree. Because IMHO "sense of self" is a belief.

Your sense of self refers to your perception of the collection of characteristics that define you. Personality traits, abilities, likes and dislikes, your belief system or moral code, and the things that motivate you — these all contribute to self-image or your unique identity as a person.
Source: https://www.healthline.com/health/sense-of-self

But here's the thing, either way I respect all beliefs. Get it?

“Sense of self” is not an “ideological belief”.

Of course it is a belief. What do you think it is? Science?

There are all kinds of “beliefs”. It’s not an ideological belief.

So we all agree that it's a belief? Ideological is an adjective that describes political, cultural, or religious beliefs.

So here's the thing -- saying gender identity is an ideological belief is not "wrong" - it's all about the context and perspective. If you are referring to gender identity based on political, cultural, or religious beliefs...then yes, it is an ideological belief.

So based on your political, cultural, or religious beliefs you argue that gender identity is not an ideological belief. But based on my political, cultural, or religious beliefs I argue that gender identity ISan ideological belief.

...and we have to agree to disagree.

^correction

Well that’s the problem isn’t it? It is not OK to agree to disagree on this topic.

Some people refuse to believe feelings and body modifications change individuals from female to male, while others insist that the government impose policies in accordance with this belief.

The belief in something does not make it true, does not make it right or wrong.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications does not change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.

They are both beliefs, neither one is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.

So it is everyone's right to refuse to believe in one or the other...whether based on religious or ideological beliefs. And the fact that neither side can see this is what is frustrating....and what is polarizing our nation more and more.

Both sides must learn to tolerate and accept one another. To respect one another.

No, you are conflating sex and gender. Sex never changes. You are always XX or XY.

You can believe what you want as long as you are not infringing on other people’s rights (liberty, privacy).

You can legally be a jerk but don’t be surprised that people will call you out about it.

I stand corrected and agree...my above statements where confusing. Biological sex at birth does not change. The gender identity tied to the biological sex at birth is a disputable issue. It is the belief whether gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth or not that is an issue, and what I mean when I state neither belief is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.

I believe that gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
Another person may believe that gender identity is not tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is also not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.

But both people must tolerate and accept each other's beliefs - respect each other's beliefs. That's all I am getting at. Neither side is doing this right now.

It all depends on how you are expressing your beliefs.

If someone believes that slavery is justified to what extent should that be tolerated?

To that end—if someone believed that murdering a pre-born human that has a beating heart and is capable of feeling pain is perfectly okay, to what extent should this be tolerated?
What about a botched abortion where the baby is delivered but is still breathing? Is it okay to kill it then, since the mom had meant to abort it? Should that be tolerated? (virginias former Governor Northam thinks it’s worth a “discussion” with the mom while the baby is kept comfortable. Do you tolerate that?)

You are misrepresenting what he said.

He said if a non-viable baby was born (not aborted) it should be kept comfortable until the mother could decide the extent of life support.

“If a mother is in labor [with non-viable baby], the infant would be delivered, the infant would be kept comfortable, the infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired. And then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not believing in one portion of your religion does not create a whole new religion. GMAFB.

The only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is to get your religion out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what happens with other people’s genitals.

I agree with you - the separation of Church and State is sacred and lines have been blurred (neither religion nor ideological beliefs belong in public schools)....but to my point...the only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is for you to also accept that some people have the religious right to believe in and teach their children on cis-genderism...to get your ideological beliefs out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what other people believe when it comes to gender identity.

People having a sense of self isn’t “ideological beliefs”.

You can believe whatever you want at home. If you start taking steps to hurt others because of your “beliefs”, that’s an issue.

Agree to disagree. Because IMHO "sense of self" is a belief.

Your sense of self refers to your perception of the collection of characteristics that define you. Personality traits, abilities, likes and dislikes, your belief system or moral code, and the things that motivate you — these all contribute to self-image or your unique identity as a person.
Source: https://www.healthline.com/health/sense-of-self

But here's the thing, either way I respect all beliefs. Get it?

“Sense of self” is not an “ideological belief”.

Of course it is a belief. What do you think it is? Science?

There are all kinds of “beliefs”. It’s not an ideological belief.

So we all agree that it's a belief? Ideological is an adjective that describes political, cultural, or religious beliefs.

So here's the thing -- saying gender identity is an ideological belief is not "wrong" - it's all about the context and perspective. If you are referring to gender identity based on political, cultural, or religious beliefs...then yes, it is an ideological belief.

So based on your political, cultural, or religious beliefs you argue that gender identity is not an ideological belief. But based on my political, cultural, or religious beliefs I argue that gender identity ISan ideological belief.

...and we have to agree to disagree.

^correction

Well that’s the problem isn’t it? It is not OK to agree to disagree on this topic.

Some people refuse to believe feelings and body modifications change individuals from female to male, while others insist that the government impose policies in accordance with this belief.

The belief in something does not make it true, does not make it right or wrong.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications does not change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.

They are both beliefs, neither one is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.

So it is everyone's right to refuse to believe in one or the other...whether based on religious or ideological beliefs. And the fact that neither side can see this is what is frustrating....and what is polarizing our nation more and more.

Both sides must learn to tolerate and accept one another. To respect one another.

No, you are conflating sex and gender. Sex never changes. You are always XX or XY.

You can believe what you want as long as you are not infringing on other people’s rights (liberty, privacy).

You can legally be a jerk but don’t be surprised that people will call you out about it.

I stand corrected and agree...my above statements where confusing. Biological sex at birth does not change. The gender identity tied to the biological sex at birth is a disputable issue. It is the belief whether gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth or not that is an issue, and what I mean when I state neither belief is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.

I believe that gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
Another person may believe that gender identity is not tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is also not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.

But both people must tolerate and accept each other's beliefs - respect each other's beliefs. That's all I am getting at. Neither side is doing this right now.

It all depends on how you are expressing your beliefs.

If someone believes that slavery is justified to what extent should that be tolerated?

That's comparing apples and oranges.

It’s a belief that many Christians had 150 years ago.

How should a belief like that be handled?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not believing in one portion of your religion does not create a whole new religion. GMAFB.

The only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is to get your religion out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what happens with other people’s genitals.

I agree with you - the separation of Church and State is sacred and lines have been blurred (neither religion nor ideological beliefs belong in public schools)....but to my point...the only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is for you to also accept that some people have the religious right to believe in and teach their children on cis-genderism...to get your ideological beliefs out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what other people believe when it comes to gender identity.

People having a sense of self isn’t “ideological beliefs”.

You can believe whatever you want at home. If you start taking steps to hurt others because of your “beliefs”, that’s an issue.

Agree to disagree. Because IMHO "sense of self" is a belief.

Your sense of self refers to your perception of the collection of characteristics that define you. Personality traits, abilities, likes and dislikes, your belief system or moral code, and the things that motivate you — these all contribute to self-image or your unique identity as a person.
Source: https://www.healthline.com/health/sense-of-self

But here's the thing, either way I respect all beliefs. Get it?

“Sense of self” is not an “ideological belief”.

Of course it is a belief. What do you think it is? Science?

There are all kinds of “beliefs”. It’s not an ideological belief.

So we all agree that it's a belief? Ideological is an adjective that describes political, cultural, or religious beliefs.

So here's the thing -- saying gender identity is an ideological belief is not "wrong" - it's all about the context and perspective. If you are referring to gender identity based on political, cultural, or religious beliefs...then yes, it is an ideological belief.

So based on your political, cultural, or religious beliefs you argue that gender identity is not an ideological belief. But based on my political, cultural, or religious beliefs I argue that gender identity ISan ideological belief.

...and we have to agree to disagree.

^correction

Well that’s the problem isn’t it? It is not OK to agree to disagree on this topic.

Some people refuse to believe feelings and body modifications change individuals from female to male, while others insist that the government impose policies in accordance with this belief.

The belief in something does not make it true, does not make it right or wrong.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications does not change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.

They are both beliefs, neither one is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.

So it is everyone's right to refuse to believe in one or the other...whether based on religious or ideological beliefs. And the fact that neither side can see this is what is frustrating....and what is polarizing our nation more and more.

Both sides must learn to tolerate and accept one another. To respect one another.

No, you are conflating sex and gender. Sex never changes. You are always XX or XY.

You can believe what you want as long as you are not infringing on other people’s rights (liberty, privacy).

You can legally be a jerk but don’t be surprised that people will call you out about it.

I stand corrected and agree...my above statements where confusing. Biological sex at birth does not change. The gender identity tied to the biological sex at birth is a disputable issue. It is the belief whether gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth or not that is an issue, and what I mean when I state neither belief is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.

I believe that gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
Another person may believe that gender identity is not tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is also not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.

But both people must tolerate and accept each other's beliefs - respect each other's beliefs. That's all I am getting at. Neither side is doing this right now.

It all depends on how you are expressing your beliefs.

If someone believes that slavery is justified to what extent should that be tolerated?

To that end—if someone believed that murdering a pre-born human that has a beating heart and is capable of feeling pain is perfectly okay, to what extent should this be tolerated?
What about a botched abortion where the baby is delivered but is still breathing? Is it okay to kill it then, since the mom had meant to abort it? Should that be tolerated? (virginias former Governor Northam thinks it’s worth a “discussion” with the mom while the baby is kept comfortable. Do you tolerate that?)

I'm pro-choice and believe Roe should never have been overturned. The only dispute was when the baby was "viable". Because abortion after viability is the core dispute at that point. Majority rules. Let the people vote on viability with exceptions...and codify it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not believing in one portion of your religion does not create a whole new religion. GMAFB.

The only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is to get your religion out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what happens with other people’s genitals.

I agree with you - the separation of Church and State is sacred and lines have been blurred (neither religion nor ideological beliefs belong in public schools)....but to my point...the only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is for you to also accept that some people have the religious right to believe in and teach their children on cis-genderism...to get your ideological beliefs out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what other people believe when it comes to gender identity.

People having a sense of self isn’t “ideological beliefs”.

You can believe whatever you want at home. If you start taking steps to hurt others because of your “beliefs”, that’s an issue.

Agree to disagree. Because IMHO "sense of self" is a belief.

Your sense of self refers to your perception of the collection of characteristics that define you. Personality traits, abilities, likes and dislikes, your belief system or moral code, and the things that motivate you — these all contribute to self-image or your unique identity as a person.
Source: https://www.healthline.com/health/sense-of-self

But here's the thing, either way I respect all beliefs. Get it?

“Sense of self” is not an “ideological belief”.

Of course it is a belief. What do you think it is? Science?

There are all kinds of “beliefs”. It’s not an ideological belief.

So we all agree that it's a belief? Ideological is an adjective that describes political, cultural, or religious beliefs.

So here's the thing -- saying gender identity is an ideological belief is not "wrong" - it's all about the context and perspective. If you are referring to gender identity based on political, cultural, or religious beliefs...then yes, it is an ideological belief.

So based on your political, cultural, or religious beliefs you argue that gender identity is not an ideological belief. But based on my political, cultural, or religious beliefs I argue that gender identity ISan ideological belief.

...and we have to agree to disagree.

^correction

Well that’s the problem isn’t it? It is not OK to agree to disagree on this topic.

Some people refuse to believe feelings and body modifications change individuals from female to male, while others insist that the government impose policies in accordance with this belief.

The belief in something does not make it true, does not make it right or wrong.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications does not change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.

They are both beliefs, neither one is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.

So it is everyone's right to refuse to believe in one or the other...whether based on religious or ideological beliefs. And the fact that neither side can see this is what is frustrating....and what is polarizing our nation more and more.

Both sides must learn to tolerate and accept one another. To respect one another.

No, you are conflating sex and gender. Sex never changes. You are always XX or XY.

You can believe what you want as long as you are not infringing on other people’s rights (liberty, privacy).

You can legally be a jerk but don’t be surprised that people will call you out about it.

I stand corrected and agree...my above statements where confusing. Biological sex at birth does not change. The gender identity tied to the biological sex at birth is a disputable issue. It is the belief whether gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth or not that is an issue, and what I mean when I state neither belief is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.

I believe that gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
Another person may believe that gender identity is not tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is also not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.

But both people must tolerate and accept each other's beliefs - respect each other's beliefs. That's all I am getting at. Neither side is doing this right now.

It all depends on how you are expressing your beliefs.

If someone believes that slavery is justified to what extent should that be tolerated?

That's comparing apples and oranges.

It’s a belief that many Christians had 150 years ago.

How should a belief like that be handled?

150 years ago. Not now. Irrelevant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not believing in one portion of your religion does not create a whole new religion. GMAFB.

The only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is to get your religion out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what happens with other people’s genitals.

I agree with you - the separation of Church and State is sacred and lines have been blurred (neither religion nor ideological beliefs belong in public schools)....but to my point...the only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is for you to also accept that some people have the religious right to believe in and teach their children on cis-genderism...to get your ideological beliefs out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what other people believe when it comes to gender identity.

People having a sense of self isn’t “ideological beliefs”.

You can believe whatever you want at home. If you start taking steps to hurt others because of your “beliefs”, that’s an issue.

Agree to disagree. Because IMHO "sense of self" is a belief.

Your sense of self refers to your perception of the collection of characteristics that define you. Personality traits, abilities, likes and dislikes, your belief system or moral code, and the things that motivate you — these all contribute to self-image or your unique identity as a person.
Source: https://www.healthline.com/health/sense-of-self

But here's the thing, either way I respect all beliefs. Get it?

“Sense of self” is not an “ideological belief”.

Of course it is a belief. What do you think it is? Science?

There are all kinds of “beliefs”. It’s not an ideological belief.

So we all agree that it's a belief? Ideological is an adjective that describes political, cultural, or religious beliefs.

So here's the thing -- saying gender identity is an ideological belief is not "wrong" - it's all about the context and perspective. If you are referring to gender identity based on political, cultural, or religious beliefs...then yes, it is an ideological belief.

So based on your political, cultural, or religious beliefs you argue that gender identity is not an ideological belief. But based on my political, cultural, or religious beliefs I argue that gender identity ISan ideological belief.

...and we have to agree to disagree.

^correction

Well that’s the problem isn’t it? It is not OK to agree to disagree on this topic.

Some people refuse to believe feelings and body modifications change individuals from female to male, while others insist that the government impose policies in accordance with this belief.

The belief in something does not make it true, does not make it right or wrong.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications does not change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.

They are both beliefs, neither one is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.

So it is everyone's right to refuse to believe in one or the other...whether based on religious or ideological beliefs. And the fact that neither side can see this is what is frustrating....and what is polarizing our nation more and more.

Both sides must learn to tolerate and accept one another. To respect one another.

No, you are conflating sex and gender. Sex never changes. You are always XX or XY.

You can believe what you want as long as you are not infringing on other people’s rights (liberty, privacy).

You can legally be a jerk but don’t be surprised that people will call you out about it.

I stand corrected and agree...my above statements where confusing. Biological sex at birth does not change. The gender identity tied to the biological sex at birth is a disputable issue. It is the belief whether gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth or not that is an issue, and what I mean when I state neither belief is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.

I believe that gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
Another person may believe that gender identity is not tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is also not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.

But both people must tolerate and accept each other's beliefs - respect each other's beliefs. That's all I am getting at. Neither side is doing this right now.

It all depends on how you are expressing your beliefs.

If someone believes that slavery is justified to what extent should that be tolerated?

+1
Two months ago, the dad who killed all 3 of his sons used the Bible to justify his actions to his kids and wife. People can twist ANY religion to justify the worst ideologies and actions.
https://www.aol.com/news/ohio-dad-read-bible-told-154233836.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not believing in one portion of your religion does not create a whole new religion. GMAFB.

The only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is to get your religion out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what happens with other people’s genitals.

I agree with you - the separation of Church and State is sacred and lines have been blurred (neither religion nor ideological beliefs belong in public schools)....but to my point...the only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is for you to also accept that some people have the religious right to believe in and teach their children on cis-genderism...to get your ideological beliefs out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what other people believe when it comes to gender identity.

People having a sense of self isn’t “ideological beliefs”.

You can believe whatever you want at home. If you start taking steps to hurt others because of your “beliefs”, that’s an issue.

Agree to disagree. Because IMHO "sense of self" is a belief.

Your sense of self refers to your perception of the collection of characteristics that define you. Personality traits, abilities, likes and dislikes, your belief system or moral code, and the things that motivate you — these all contribute to self-image or your unique identity as a person.
Source: https://www.healthline.com/health/sense-of-self

But here's the thing, either way I respect all beliefs. Get it?

“Sense of self” is not an “ideological belief”.

Of course it is a belief. What do you think it is? Science?

There are all kinds of “beliefs”. It’s not an ideological belief.

So we all agree that it's a belief? Ideological is an adjective that describes political, cultural, or religious beliefs.

So here's the thing -- saying gender identity is an ideological belief is not "wrong" - it's all about the context and perspective. If you are referring to gender identity based on political, cultural, or religious beliefs...then yes, it is an ideological belief.

So based on your political, cultural, or religious beliefs you argue that gender identity is not an ideological belief. But based on my political, cultural, or religious beliefs I argue that gender identity ISan ideological belief.

...and we have to agree to disagree.

^correction

Well that’s the problem isn’t it? It is not OK to agree to disagree on this topic.

Some people refuse to believe feelings and body modifications change individuals from female to male, while others insist that the government impose policies in accordance with this belief.

The belief in something does not make it true, does not make it right or wrong.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications does not change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.

They are both beliefs, neither one is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.

So it is everyone's right to refuse to believe in one or the other...whether based on religious or ideological beliefs. And the fact that neither side can see this is what is frustrating....and what is polarizing our nation more and more.

Both sides must learn to tolerate and accept one another. To respect one another.

No, you are conflating sex and gender. Sex never changes. You are always XX or XY.

You can believe what you want as long as you are not infringing on other people’s rights (liberty, privacy).

You can legally be a jerk but don’t be surprised that people will call you out about it.

I stand corrected and agree...my above statements where confusing. Biological sex at birth does not change. The gender identity tied to the biological sex at birth is a disputable issue. It is the belief whether gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth or not that is an issue, and what I mean when I state neither belief is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.

I believe that gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
Another person may believe that gender identity is not tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is also not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.

But both people must tolerate and accept each other's beliefs - respect each other's beliefs. That's all I am getting at. Neither side is doing this right now.

It all depends on how you are expressing your beliefs.

If someone believes that slavery is justified to what extent should that be tolerated?

That's comparing apples and oranges.

It’s a belief that many Christians had 150 years ago.

How should a belief like that be handled?

150 years ago. Not now. Irrelevant.

It’s pretty darn similar. One group’s “religious beliefs” were infringing on another’s rights.

Has the social construct around slavery changed?

Was abolition a religion? Should we have had “separation of beliefs (abolition) and government”?