Anonymous wrote:Not believing in one portion of your religion does not create a whole new religion. GMAFB.
The only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is to get your religion out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what happens with other people’s genitals.
I agree with you - the separation of Church and State is sacred and lines have been blurred (neither religion nor ideological beliefs belong in public schools)....but to my point...the only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is for you to also accept that some people have the religious right to believe in and teach their children on cis-genderism...to get your ideological beliefs out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what other people believe when it comes to gender identity.
People having a sense of self isn’t “ideological beliefs”.
You can believe whatever you want at home. If you start taking steps to hurt others because of your “beliefs”, that’s an issue.
Agree to disagree. Because IMHO "sense of self" is a belief.
Your sense of self refers to your perception of the collection of characteristics that define you. Personality traits, abilities, likes and dislikes, your belief system or moral code, and the things that motivate you — these all contribute to self-image or your unique identity as a person. Source: https://www.healthline.com/health/sense-of-self
But here's the thing, either way I respect all beliefs. Get it?
“Sense of self” is not an “ideological belief”.
Of course it is a belief. What do you think it is? Science?
There are all kinds of “beliefs”. It’s not an ideological belief.
So we all agree that it's a belief? Ideological is an adjective that describes political, cultural, or religious beliefs.
So here's the thing -- saying gender identity is an ideological belief is not "wrong" - it's all about the context and perspective. If you are referring to gender identity based on political, cultural, or religious beliefs...then yes, it is an ideological belief.
So based on your political, cultural, or religious beliefs you argue that gender identity is not an ideological belief. But based on my political, cultural, or religious beliefs I argue that gender identity ISan ideological belief.
...and we have to agree to disagree.
^correction
Well that’s the problem isn’t it? It is not OK to agree to disagree on this topic.
Some people refuse to believe feelings and body modifications change individuals from female to male, while others insist that the government impose policies in accordance with this belief.
The belief in something does not make it true, does not make it right or wrong.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications does notchange an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.
They are both beliefs, neither one is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
So it is everyone's right to refuse to believe in one or the other...whether based on religious or ideological beliefs. And the fact that neither side can see this is what is frustrating....and what is polarizing our nation more and more.
Both sides must learn to tolerate and accept one another. To respect one another.
No, you are conflating sex and gender. Sex never changes. You are always XX or XY.
You can believe what you want as long as you are not infringing on other people’s rights (liberty, privacy).
You can legally be a jerk but don’t be surprised that people will call you out about it.
I stand corrected and agree...my above statements where confusing. Biological sex at birth does not change. The gender identity tied to the biological sex at birth is a disputable issue. It is the belief whether gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth or not that is an issue, and what I mean when I state neither belief is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
I believe that gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
Another person may believe that gender identity is not tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is also not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
But both people must tolerate and accept each other's beliefs - respect each other's beliefs. That's all I am getting at. Neither side is doing this right now.
It all depends on how you are expressing your beliefs.
If someone believes that slavery is justified to what extent should that be tolerated?
Geez people...so long as a belief does not harm anyone it should be tolerated and respected.
People relating this to slavery and murder....of course that's wrong.
Gender conversion therapy is wrong.
I mean everyone has lost their common sense.
Where is the harm to anyone in believing that gender identity is tied to sex at birth? So long as I don't impose/force those beliefs on others and so long as I don't harm anyone based on those beliefs.
Great. You do that.
You too. Goes both ways.
Great. So no more pot-stirring threads about “religion”? No more ”separation of church and state”? No more anti-trans legislation?
Correct.
The only issue I want to discuss (not stir) is that the separation of church and state is antiquated..it should be expanded to separation of religion AND belief and state. Neither religion nor beliefs on gender identity belong in schools. Stick to the indisputable scientific topics of sex. Leave the disputable topic of gender identity which is based on belief out.
Because once you open the door on teaching based on beliefs you open the door to teaching on all other beliefs. If you want to teach gender identity then you can't complain when someone wants to teach about other beliefs such as 10 Commandments.
Correct. No more anti-trans legislation. No more anti-religious or belief legislation. No more anti-abortion legislation.
Then we are going to have to throw out all sorts of beliefs at school:
You shouldn't lie.
Stealing is bad.
You should be nice to people.
You should help people in need.
Girls should have the same opportunities as boys.
Racism is bad.
Secularism itself is a belief. Heck, so is the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Throw all of those out too?
Respecting other people’s identity isn’t a religious belief.
Teach that everyone should respect other people’s belief (whether a reliqious or ideological belief) in gender identity. Gender identity is a belief.
So if teaching gender identity...teach it holistically....gender identity is not indisputabley true or false, right or wrong. If a child comes in and says I believe cisgender identity is tied to biological sex at birth. That just be respected. They should also respect it should another student say they believe in non-binary gender. It's OK to have different beliefs. But don’t teach children only one belief on gender identity.
Gender identity isn’t right or wrong. It just is what it is. And it’s fluid.
Being a bigot isn’t a protected “belief”.
You are a hypocrite....you just agreed with me that gender identity is not indisputabley true or false, right or wrong.
Yet if I state that I tolerate and repect your personal belief that gender identity is fluid. You don't think I deserve the same tolerance and respect if I believe it's not? Wow.
The hypocrisy. Tolerance and respect is a two way street. Go ahead and call me any derogatory name you want (note, not once in this entire thread nor in my entire life have I ever used a derogatory remark towards anyone who believes gender identity is fluid)....I'll rise above it now because you're just a hypocrite.
I do not have the right to tell you what your belief should be. But you also do not have the right to tell me what my belief should be.
So I will continue teaching my children and grandchildren to tolerate and respect all beliefs. To treat everyone the same regardless of their beliefs. At the same time I will teach them to be individuals with their own values and beliefs...that it is okay to not agree with a belief so long as you still respect it and you are still respected in return for your belief.
No one is telling you what to believe. And maybe you’re confusing terms and concepts a bit. But there is no right or wrong gender identity for any particular person. It just is what it is.
You can certainly believe otherwise (clearly all of your beliefs aren’t totally grounded in reality), but expressing it outwardly is hurtful and disrespectful. For someone so “concerned” about respect you might want to reflect on that.
Science just is. There is no right or wrong science.
There is no moral judgment in asserting that a human being whose body is designed to produce sperm (small gametes) is male. He just is. Even if his feelings tell him he is a human being who produces eggs.
Anonymous wrote:Not believing in one portion of your religion does not create a whole new religion. GMAFB.
The only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is to get your religion out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what happens with other people’s genitals.
I agree with you - the separation of Church and State is sacred and lines have been blurred (neither religion nor ideological beliefs belong in public schools)....but to my point...the only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is for you to also accept that some people have the religious right to believe in and teach their children on cis-genderism...to get your ideological beliefs out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what other people believe when it comes to gender identity.
People having a sense of self isn’t “ideological beliefs”.
You can believe whatever you want at home. If you start taking steps to hurt others because of your “beliefs”, that’s an issue.
Agree to disagree. Because IMHO "sense of self" is a belief.
Your sense of self refers to your perception of the collection of characteristics that define you. Personality traits, abilities, likes and dislikes, your belief system or moral code, and the things that motivate you — these all contribute to self-image or your unique identity as a person. Source: https://www.healthline.com/health/sense-of-self
But here's the thing, either way I respect all beliefs. Get it?
“Sense of self” is not an “ideological belief”.
Of course it is a belief. What do you think it is? Science?
There are all kinds of “beliefs”. It’s not an ideological belief.
So we all agree that it's a belief? Ideological is an adjective that describes political, cultural, or religious beliefs.
So here's the thing -- saying gender identity is an ideological belief is not "wrong" - it's all about the context and perspective. If you are referring to gender identity based on political, cultural, or religious beliefs...then yes, it is an ideological belief.
So based on your political, cultural, or religious beliefs you argue that gender identity is not an ideological belief. But based on my political, cultural, or religious beliefs I argue that gender identity ISan ideological belief.
...and we have to agree to disagree.
^correction
Well that’s the problem isn’t it? It is not OK to agree to disagree on this topic.
Some people refuse to believe feelings and body modifications change individuals from female to male, while others insist that the government impose policies in accordance with this belief.
The belief in something does not make it true, does not make it right or wrong.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications does notchange an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.
They are both beliefs, neither one is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
So it is everyone's right to refuse to believe in one or the other...whether based on religious or ideological beliefs. And the fact that neither side can see this is what is frustrating....and what is polarizing our nation more and more.
Both sides must learn to tolerate and accept one another. To respect one another.
No, you are conflating sex and gender. Sex never changes. You are always XX or XY.
You can believe what you want as long as you are not infringing on other people’s rights (liberty, privacy).
You can legally be a jerk but don’t be surprised that people will call you out about it.
I stand corrected and agree...my above statements where confusing. Biological sex at birth does not change. The gender identity tied to the biological sex at birth is a disputable issue. It is the belief whether gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth or not that is an issue, and what I mean when I state neither belief is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
I believe that gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
Another person may believe that gender identity is not tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is also not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
But both people must tolerate and accept each other's beliefs - respect each other's beliefs. That's all I am getting at. Neither side is doing this right now.
It all depends on how you are expressing your beliefs.
If someone believes that slavery is justified to what extent should that be tolerated?
Geez people...so long as a belief does not harm anyone it should be tolerated and respected.
People relating this to slavery and murder....of course that's wrong.
Gender conversion therapy is wrong.
I mean everyone has lost their common sense.
Where is the harm to anyone in believing that gender identity is tied to sex at birth? So long as I don't impose/force those beliefs on others and so long as I don't harm anyone based on those beliefs.
Great. You do that.
You too. Goes both ways.
Great. So no more pot-stirring threads about “religion”? No more ”separation of church and state”? No more anti-trans legislation?
Correct.
The only issue I want to discuss (not stir) is that the separation of church and state is antiquated..it should be expanded to separation of religion AND belief and state. Neither religion nor beliefs on gender identity belong in schools. Stick to the indisputable scientific topics of sex. Leave the disputable topic of gender identity which is based on belief out.
Because once you open the door on teaching based on beliefs you open the door to teaching on all other beliefs. If you want to teach gender identity then you can't complain when someone wants to teach about other beliefs such as 10 Commandments.
Correct. No more anti-trans legislation. No more anti-religious or belief legislation. No more anti-abortion legislation.
Then we are going to have to throw out all sorts of beliefs at school:
You shouldn't lie.
Stealing is bad.
You should be nice to people.
You should help people in need.
Girls should have the same opportunities as boys.
Racism is bad.
Secularism itself is a belief. Heck, so is the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Throw all of those out too?
Respecting other people’s identity isn’t a religious belief.
Teach that everyone should respect other people’s belief (whether a reliqious or ideological belief) in gender identity. Gender identity is a belief.
So if teaching gender identity...teach it holistically....gender identity is not indisputabley true or false, right or wrong. If a child comes in and says I believe cisgender identity is tied to biological sex at birth. That just be respected. They should also respect it should another student say they believe in non-binary gender. It's OK to have different beliefs. But don’t teach children only one belief on gender identity.
Gender identity isn’t right or wrong. It just is what it is. And it’s fluid.
Being a bigot isn’t a protected “belief”.
You are a hypocrite....you just agreed with me that gender identity is not indisputabley true or false, right or wrong.
Yet if I state that I tolerate and repect your personal belief that gender identity is fluid. You don't think I deserve the same tolerance and respect if I believe it's not? Wow.
The hypocrisy. Tolerance and respect is a two way street. Go ahead and call me any derogatory name you want (note, not once in this entire thread nor in my entire life have I ever used a derogatory remark towards anyone who believes gender identity is fluid)....I'll rise above it now because you're just a hypocrite.
I do not have the right to tell you what your belief should be. But you also do not have the right to tell me what my belief should be.
So I will continue teaching my children and grandchildren to tolerate and respect all beliefs. To treat everyone the same regardless of their beliefs. At the same time I will teach them to be individuals with their own values and beliefs...that it is okay to not agree with a belief so long as you still respect it and you are still respected in return for your belief.
No one is telling you what to believe. And maybe you’re confusing terms and concepts a bit. But there is no right or wrong gender identity for any particular person. It just is what it is.
You can certainly believe otherwise (clearly all of your beliefs aren’t totally grounded in reality), but expressing it outwardly is hurtful and disrespectful. For someone so “concerned” about respect you might want to reflect on that.
How is expressing my belief that gender identity correlates to biological sex hurtful and disrespectful? I am not saying you can't believe otherwise. You do you.
You can express it all you want. But that’s not enough for you is it?
You need to teach other people’s kids that your unscientific, superficial natural belief (or religious, delusions, or mental illness) are in fact, factually correct.
I think you need to take a breath because I am in total agreement with you, it's totally not my place to impose my gender identity belief on other people’s kids...and vice versa. Hence the argument of why it shouldn't be taught in schools. The same way the 10 Commandments should not be schools.
Which is why we should discuss reforming the antiquated Separation of Church and State for modern times....so that it encompasses Separation of Religions and Ideological Beliefs and State.
Anonymous wrote:Not believing in one portion of your religion does not create a whole new religion. GMAFB.
The only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is to get your religion out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what happens with other people’s genitals.
I agree with you - the separation of Church and State is sacred and lines have been blurred (neither religion nor ideological beliefs belong in public schools)....but to my point...the only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is for you to also accept that some people have the religious right to believe in and teach their children on cis-genderism...to get your ideological beliefs out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what other people believe when it comes to gender identity.
People having a sense of self isn’t “ideological beliefs”.
You can believe whatever you want at home. If you start taking steps to hurt others because of your “beliefs”, that’s an issue.
Agree to disagree. Because IMHO "sense of self" is a belief.
Your sense of self refers to your perception of the collection of characteristics that define you. Personality traits, abilities, likes and dislikes, your belief system or moral code, and the things that motivate you — these all contribute to self-image or your unique identity as a person. Source: https://www.healthline.com/health/sense-of-self
But here's the thing, either way I respect all beliefs. Get it?
“Sense of self” is not an “ideological belief”.
Of course it is a belief. What do you think it is? Science?
There are all kinds of “beliefs”. It’s not an ideological belief.
So we all agree that it's a belief? Ideological is an adjective that describes political, cultural, or religious beliefs.
So here's the thing -- saying gender identity is an ideological belief is not "wrong" - it's all about the context and perspective. If you are referring to gender identity based on political, cultural, or religious beliefs...then yes, it is an ideological belief.
So based on your political, cultural, or religious beliefs you argue that gender identity is not an ideological belief. But based on my political, cultural, or religious beliefs I argue that gender identity ISan ideological belief.
...and we have to agree to disagree.
^correction
Well that’s the problem isn’t it? It is not OK to agree to disagree on this topic.
Some people refuse to believe feelings and body modifications change individuals from female to male, while others insist that the government impose policies in accordance with this belief.
The belief in something does not make it true, does not make it right or wrong.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications does notchange an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.
They are both beliefs, neither one is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
So it is everyone's right to refuse to believe in one or the other...whether based on religious or ideological beliefs. And the fact that neither side can see this is what is frustrating....and what is polarizing our nation more and more.
Both sides must learn to tolerate and accept one another. To respect one another.
No, you are conflating sex and gender. Sex never changes. You are always XX or XY.
You can believe what you want as long as you are not infringing on other people’s rights (liberty, privacy).
You can legally be a jerk but don’t be surprised that people will call you out about it.
I stand corrected and agree...my above statements where confusing. Biological sex at birth does not change. The gender identity tied to the biological sex at birth is a disputable issue. It is the belief whether gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth or not that is an issue, and what I mean when I state neither belief is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
I believe that gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
Another person may believe that gender identity is not tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is also not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
But both people must tolerate and accept each other's beliefs - respect each other's beliefs. That's all I am getting at. Neither side is doing this right now.
It all depends on how you are expressing your beliefs.
If someone believes that slavery is justified to what extent should that be tolerated?
Geez people...so long as a belief does not harm anyone it should be tolerated and respected.
People relating this to slavery and murder....of course that's wrong.
Gender conversion therapy is wrong.
I mean everyone has lost their common sense.
Where is the harm to anyone in believing that gender identity is tied to sex at birth? So long as I don't impose/force those beliefs on others and so long as I don't harm anyone based on those beliefs.
Great. You do that.
You too. Goes both ways.
Great. So no more pot-stirring threads about “religion”? No more ”separation of church and state”? No more anti-trans legislation?
Correct.
The only issue I want to discuss (not stir) is that the separation of church and state is antiquated..it should be expanded to separation of religion AND belief and state. Neither religion nor beliefs on gender identity belong in schools. Stick to the indisputable scientific topics of sex. Leave the disputable topic of gender identity which is based on belief out.
Because once you open the door on teaching based on beliefs you open the door to teaching on all other beliefs. If you want to teach gender identity then you can't complain when someone wants to teach about other beliefs such as 10 Commandments.
Correct. No more anti-trans legislation. No more anti-religious or belief legislation. No more anti-abortion legislation.
Then we are going to have to throw out all sorts of beliefs at school:
You shouldn't lie.
Stealing is bad.
You should be nice to people.
You should help people in need.
Girls should have the same opportunities as boys.
Racism is bad.
Secularism itself is a belief. Heck, so is the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Throw all of those out too?
Respecting other people’s identity isn’t a religious belief.
Teach that everyone should respect other people’s belief (whether a reliqious or ideological belief) in gender identity. Gender identity is a belief.
So if teaching gender identity...teach it holistically....gender identity is not indisputabley true or false, right or wrong. If a child comes in and says I believe cisgender identity is tied to biological sex at birth. That just be respected. They should also respect it should another student say they believe in non-binary gender. It's OK to have different beliefs. But don’t teach children only one belief on gender identity.
Gender identity isn’t right or wrong. It just is what it is. And it’s fluid.
Being a bigot isn’t a protected “belief”.
You are a hypocrite....you just agreed with me that gender identity is not indisputabley true or false, right or wrong.
Yet if I state that I tolerate and repect your personal belief that gender identity is fluid. You don't think I deserve the same tolerance and respect if I believe it's not? Wow.
The hypocrisy. Tolerance and respect is a two way street. Go ahead and call me any derogatory name you want (note, not once in this entire thread nor in my entire life have I ever used a derogatory remark towards anyone who believes gender identity is fluid)....I'll rise above it now because you're just a hypocrite.
I do not have the right to tell you what your belief should be. But you also do not have the right to tell me what my belief should be.
So I will continue teaching my children and grandchildren to tolerate and respect all beliefs. To treat everyone the same regardless of their beliefs. At the same time I will teach them to be individuals with their own values and beliefs...that it is okay to not agree with a belief so long as you still respect it and you are still respected in return for your belief.
No one is telling you what to believe. And maybe you’re confusing terms and concepts a bit. But there is no right or wrong gender identity for any particular person. It just is what it is.
You can certainly believe otherwise (clearly all of your beliefs aren’t totally grounded in reality), but expressing it outwardly is hurtful and disrespectful. For someone so “concerned” about respect you might want to reflect on that.
How is expressing my belief that gender identity correlates to biological sex hurtful and disrespectful? I am not saying you can't believe otherwise. You do you.
You can express it all you want. But that’s not enough for you is it?
You need to teach other people’s kids that your unscientific, superficial natural belief (or religious, delusions, or mental illness) are in fact, factually correct.
I think you need to take a breath because I am in total agreement with you, it's totally not my place to impose my gender identity belief on other people’s kids...and vice versa. Hence the argument of why it shouldn't be taught in schools. The same way the 10 Commandments should not be schools.
Which is why we should discuss reforming the antiquated Separation of Church and State for modern times....so that it encompasses Separation of Religions and Ideological Beliefs and State.
An honest discussion.
Agreed. Unfortunately there are people who are teaching kids that if they want to be the other sex, that is totally valid feeling and puberty blockers, cross sex hormones and body modification surgery to remove their sex organs can help their feelings feel better, despite the fact there no evidence for this claim.
Anonymous wrote:Not believing in one portion of your religion does not create a whole new religion. GMAFB.
The only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is to get your religion out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what happens with other people’s genitals.
I agree with you - the separation of Church and State is sacred and lines have been blurred (neither religion nor ideological beliefs belong in public schools)....but to my point...the only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is for you to also accept that some people have the religious right to believe in and teach their children on cis-genderism...to get your ideological beliefs out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what other people believe when it comes to gender identity.
People having a sense of self isn’t “ideological beliefs”.
You can believe whatever you want at home. If you start taking steps to hurt others because of your “beliefs”, that’s an issue.
Agree to disagree. Because IMHO "sense of self" is a belief.
Your sense of self refers to your perception of the collection of characteristics that define you. Personality traits, abilities, likes and dislikes, your belief system or moral code, and the things that motivate you — these all contribute to self-image or your unique identity as a person. Source: https://www.healthline.com/health/sense-of-self
But here's the thing, either way I respect all beliefs. Get it?
“Sense of self” is not an “ideological belief”.
Of course it is a belief. What do you think it is? Science?
There are all kinds of “beliefs”. It’s not an ideological belief.
So we all agree that it's a belief? Ideological is an adjective that describes political, cultural, or religious beliefs.
So here's the thing -- saying gender identity is an ideological belief is not "wrong" - it's all about the context and perspective. If you are referring to gender identity based on political, cultural, or religious beliefs...then yes, it is an ideological belief.
So based on your political, cultural, or religious beliefs you argue that gender identity is not an ideological belief. But based on my political, cultural, or religious beliefs I argue that gender identity ISan ideological belief.
...and we have to agree to disagree.
^correction
Well that’s the problem isn’t it? It is not OK to agree to disagree on this topic.
Some people refuse to believe feelings and body modifications change individuals from female to male, while others insist that the government impose policies in accordance with this belief.
The belief in something does not make it true, does not make it right or wrong.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications does notchange an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.
They are both beliefs, neither one is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
So it is everyone's right to refuse to believe in one or the other...whether based on religious or ideological beliefs. And the fact that neither side can see this is what is frustrating....and what is polarizing our nation more and more.
Both sides must learn to tolerate and accept one another. To respect one another.
No, you are conflating sex and gender. Sex never changes. You are always XX or XY.
You can believe what you want as long as you are not infringing on other people’s rights (liberty, privacy).
You can legally be a jerk but don’t be surprised that people will call you out about it.
I stand corrected and agree...my above statements where confusing. Biological sex at birth does not change. The gender identity tied to the biological sex at birth is a disputable issue. It is the belief whether gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth or not that is an issue, and what I mean when I state neither belief is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
I believe that gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
Another person may believe that gender identity is not tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is also not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
But both people must tolerate and accept each other's beliefs - respect each other's beliefs. That's all I am getting at. Neither side is doing this right now.
It all depends on how you are expressing your beliefs.
If someone believes that slavery is justified to what extent should that be tolerated?
Geez people...so long as a belief does not harm anyone it should be tolerated and respected.
People relating this to slavery and murder....of course that's wrong.
Gender conversion therapy is wrong.
I mean everyone has lost their common sense.
Where is the harm to anyone in believing that gender identity is tied to sex at birth? So long as I don't impose/force those beliefs on others and so long as I don't harm anyone based on those beliefs.
Great. You do that.
You too. Goes both ways.
Great. So no more pot-stirring threads about “religion”? No more ”separation of church and state”? No more anti-trans legislation?
Correct.
The only issue I want to discuss (not stir) is that the separation of church and state is antiquated..it should be expanded to separation of religion AND belief and state. Neither religion nor beliefs on gender identity belong in schools. Stick to the indisputable scientific topics of sex. Leave the disputable topic of gender identity which is based on belief out.
Because once you open the door on teaching based on beliefs you open the door to teaching on all other beliefs. If you want to teach gender identity then you can't complain when someone wants to teach about other beliefs such as 10 Commandments.
Correct. No more anti-trans legislation. No more anti-religious or belief legislation. No more anti-abortion legislation.
Then we are going to have to throw out all sorts of beliefs at school:
You shouldn't lie.
Stealing is bad.
You should be nice to people.
You should help people in need.
Girls should have the same opportunities as boys.
Racism is bad.
Secularism itself is a belief. Heck, so is the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Throw all of those out too?
Respecting other people’s identity isn’t a religious belief.
Teach that everyone should respect other people’s belief (whether a reliqious or ideological belief) in gender identity. Gender identity is a belief.
So if teaching gender identity...teach it holistically....gender identity is not indisputabley true or false, right or wrong. If a child comes in and says I believe cisgender identity is tied to biological sex at birth. That just be respected. They should also respect it should another student say they believe in non-binary gender. It's OK to have different beliefs. But don’t teach children only one belief on gender identity.
Gender identity isn’t right or wrong. It just is what it is. And it’s fluid.
Being a bigot isn’t a protected “belief”.
You are a hypocrite....you just agreed with me that gender identity is not indisputabley true or false, right or wrong.
Yet if I state that I tolerate and repect your personal belief that gender identity is fluid. You don't think I deserve the same tolerance and respect if I believe it's not? Wow.
The hypocrisy. Tolerance and respect is a two way street. Go ahead and call me any derogatory name you want (note, not once in this entire thread nor in my entire life have I ever used a derogatory remark towards anyone who believes gender identity is fluid)....I'll rise above it now because you're just a hypocrite.
I do not have the right to tell you what your belief should be. But you also do not have the right to tell me what my belief should be.
So I will continue teaching my children and grandchildren to tolerate and respect all beliefs. To treat everyone the same regardless of their beliefs. At the same time I will teach them to be individuals with their own values and beliefs...that it is okay to not agree with a belief so long as you still respect it and you are still respected in return for your belief.
No one is telling you what to believe. And maybe you’re confusing terms and concepts a bit. But there is no right or wrong gender identity for any particular person. It just is what it is.
You can certainly believe otherwise (clearly all of your beliefs aren’t totally grounded in reality), but expressing it outwardly is hurtful and disrespectful. For someone so “concerned” about respect you might want to reflect on that.
Science just is. There is no right or wrong science.
There is no moral judgment in asserting that a human being whose body is designed to produce sperm (small gametes) is male. He just is. Even if his feelings tell him he is a human being who produces eggs.
Anonymous wrote:Not believing in one portion of your religion does not create a whole new religion. GMAFB.
The only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is to get your religion out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what happens with other people’s genitals.
I agree with you - the separation of Church and State is sacred and lines have been blurred (neither religion nor ideological beliefs belong in public schools)....but to my point...the only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is for you to also accept that some people have the religious right to believe in and teach their children on cis-genderism...to get your ideological beliefs out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what other people believe when it comes to gender identity.
People having a sense of self isn’t “ideological beliefs”.
You can believe whatever you want at home. If you start taking steps to hurt others because of your “beliefs”, that’s an issue.
Agree to disagree. Because IMHO "sense of self" is a belief.
Your sense of self refers to your perception of the collection of characteristics that define you. Personality traits, abilities, likes and dislikes, your belief system or moral code, and the things that motivate you — these all contribute to self-image or your unique identity as a person. Source: https://www.healthline.com/health/sense-of-self
But here's the thing, either way I respect all beliefs. Get it?
“Sense of self” is not an “ideological belief”.
Of course it is a belief. What do you think it is? Science?
There are all kinds of “beliefs”. It’s not an ideological belief.
So we all agree that it's a belief? Ideological is an adjective that describes political, cultural, or religious beliefs.
So here's the thing -- saying gender identity is an ideological belief is not "wrong" - it's all about the context and perspective. If you are referring to gender identity based on political, cultural, or religious beliefs...then yes, it is an ideological belief.
So based on your political, cultural, or religious beliefs you argue that gender identity is not an ideological belief. But based on my political, cultural, or religious beliefs I argue that gender identity ISan ideological belief.
...and we have to agree to disagree.
^correction
Well that’s the problem isn’t it? It is not OK to agree to disagree on this topic.
Some people refuse to believe feelings and body modifications change individuals from female to male, while others insist that the government impose policies in accordance with this belief.
The belief in something does not make it true, does not make it right or wrong.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications does notchange an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.
They are both beliefs, neither one is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
So it is everyone's right to refuse to believe in one or the other...whether based on religious or ideological beliefs. And the fact that neither side can see this is what is frustrating....and what is polarizing our nation more and more.
Both sides must learn to tolerate and accept one another. To respect one another.
No, you are conflating sex and gender. Sex never changes. You are always XX or XY.
You can believe what you want as long as you are not infringing on other people’s rights (liberty, privacy).
You can legally be a jerk but don’t be surprised that people will call you out about it.
I stand corrected and agree...my above statements where confusing. Biological sex at birth does not change. The gender identity tied to the biological sex at birth is a disputable issue. It is the belief whether gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth or not that is an issue, and what I mean when I state neither belief is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
I believe that gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
Another person may believe that gender identity is not tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is also not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
But both people must tolerate and accept each other's beliefs - respect each other's beliefs. That's all I am getting at. Neither side is doing this right now.
It all depends on how you are expressing your beliefs.
If someone believes that slavery is justified to what extent should that be tolerated?
Geez people...so long as a belief does not harm anyone it should be tolerated and respected.
People relating this to slavery and murder....of course that's wrong.
Gender conversion therapy is wrong.
I mean everyone has lost their common sense.
Where is the harm to anyone in believing that gender identity is tied to sex at birth? So long as I don't impose/force those beliefs on others and so long as I don't harm anyone based on those beliefs.
Great. You do that.
You too. Goes both ways.
Great. So no more pot-stirring threads about “religion”? No more ”separation of church and state”? No more anti-trans legislation?
Correct.
The only issue I want to discuss (not stir) is that the separation of church and state is antiquated..it should be expanded to separation of religion AND belief and state. Neither religion nor beliefs on gender identity belong in schools. Stick to the indisputable scientific topics of sex. Leave the disputable topic of gender identity which is based on belief out.
Because once you open the door on teaching based on beliefs you open the door to teaching on all other beliefs. If you want to teach gender identity then you can't complain when someone wants to teach about other beliefs such as 10 Commandments.
Correct. No more anti-trans legislation. No more anti-religious or belief legislation. No more anti-abortion legislation.
Then we are going to have to throw out all sorts of beliefs at school:
You shouldn't lie.
Stealing is bad.
You should be nice to people.
You should help people in need.
Girls should have the same opportunities as boys.
Racism is bad.
Secularism itself is a belief. Heck, so is the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Throw all of those out too?
Respecting other people’s identity isn’t a religious belief.
Teach that everyone should respect other people’s belief (whether a reliqious or ideological belief) in gender identity. Gender identity is a belief.
So if teaching gender identity...teach it holistically....gender identity is not indisputabley true or false, right or wrong. If a child comes in and says I believe cisgender identity is tied to biological sex at birth. That just be respected. They should also respect it should another student say they believe in non-binary gender. It's OK to have different beliefs. But don’t teach children only one belief on gender identity.
Gender identity isn’t right or wrong. It just is what it is. And it’s fluid.
Being a bigot isn’t a protected “belief”.
You are a hypocrite....you just agreed with me that gender identity is not indisputabley true or false, right or wrong.
Yet if I state that I tolerate and repect your personal belief that gender identity is fluid. You don't think I deserve the same tolerance and respect if I believe it's not? Wow.
The hypocrisy. Tolerance and respect is a two way street. Go ahead and call me any derogatory name you want (note, not once in this entire thread nor in my entire life have I ever used a derogatory remark towards anyone who believes gender identity is fluid)....I'll rise above it now because you're just a hypocrite.
I do not have the right to tell you what your belief should be. But you also do not have the right to tell me what my belief should be.
So I will continue teaching my children and grandchildren to tolerate and respect all beliefs. To treat everyone the same regardless of their beliefs. At the same time I will teach them to be individuals with their own values and beliefs...that it is okay to not agree with a belief so long as you still respect it and you are still respected in return for your belief.
No one is telling you what to believe. And maybe you’re confusing terms and concepts a bit. But there is no right or wrong gender identity for any particular person. It just is what it is.
You can certainly believe otherwise (clearly all of your beliefs aren’t totally grounded in reality), but expressing it outwardly is hurtful and disrespectful. For someone so “concerned” about respect you might want to reflect on that.
How is expressing my belief that gender identity correlates to biological sex hurtful and disrespectful? I am not saying you can't believe otherwise. You do you.
You can express it all you want. But that’s not enough for you is it?
You need to teach other people’s kids that your unscientific, superficial natural belief (or religious, delusions, or mental illness) are in fact, factually correct.
I think you need to take a breath because I am in total agreement with you, it's totally not my place to impose my gender identity belief on other people’s kids...and vice versa. Hence the argument of why it shouldn't be taught in schools. The same way the 10 Commandments should not be schools.
Which is why we should discuss reforming the antiquated Separation of Church and State for modern times....so that it encompasses Separation of Religions and Ideological Beliefs and State.
An honest discussion.
Agreed. Unfortunately there are people who are teaching kids that if they want to be the other sex, that is totally valid feeling and puberty blockers, cross sex hormones and body modification surgery to remove their sex organs can help their feelings feel better, despite the fact there no evidence for this claim.
No “honest discussion” is possible if you continue to conflate sex and gender.
Gender affirming care improves outcomes.
https://www.columbiapsychiatry.org/news/gender-affirming-care-saves-lives “Research demonstrates that gender-affirming care—a medical and psychosocial health care designed to affirm individuals' gender identities—greatly improves the mental health and overall well-being of gender diverse, transgender, and nonbinary children and adolescents.”
Anonymous wrote:Not believing in one portion of your religion does not create a whole new religion. GMAFB.
The only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is to get your religion out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what happens with other people’s genitals.
I agree with you - the separation of Church and State is sacred and lines have been blurred (neither religion nor ideological beliefs belong in public schools)....but to my point...the only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is for you to also accept that some people have the religious right to believe in and teach their children on cis-genderism...to get your ideological beliefs out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what other people believe when it comes to gender identity.
People having a sense of self isn’t “ideological beliefs”.
You can believe whatever you want at home. If you start taking steps to hurt others because of your “beliefs”, that’s an issue.
Agree to disagree. Because IMHO "sense of self" is a belief.
Your sense of self refers to your perception of the collection of characteristics that define you. Personality traits, abilities, likes and dislikes, your belief system or moral code, and the things that motivate you — these all contribute to self-image or your unique identity as a person. Source: https://www.healthline.com/health/sense-of-self
But here's the thing, either way I respect all beliefs. Get it?
“Sense of self” is not an “ideological belief”.
Of course it is a belief. What do you think it is? Science?
There are all kinds of “beliefs”. It’s not an ideological belief.
So we all agree that it's a belief? Ideological is an adjective that describes political, cultural, or religious beliefs.
So here's the thing -- saying gender identity is an ideological belief is not "wrong" - it's all about the context and perspective. If you are referring to gender identity based on political, cultural, or religious beliefs...then yes, it is an ideological belief.
So based on your political, cultural, or religious beliefs you argue that gender identity is not an ideological belief. But based on my political, cultural, or religious beliefs I argue that gender identity ISan ideological belief.
...and we have to agree to disagree.
^correction
Well that’s the problem isn’t it? It is not OK to agree to disagree on this topic.
Some people refuse to believe feelings and body modifications change individuals from female to male, while others insist that the government impose policies in accordance with this belief.
The belief in something does not make it true, does not make it right or wrong.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications does notchange an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.
They are both beliefs, neither one is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
So it is everyone's right to refuse to believe in one or the other...whether based on religious or ideological beliefs. And the fact that neither side can see this is what is frustrating....and what is polarizing our nation more and more.
Both sides must learn to tolerate and accept one another. To respect one another.
No, you are conflating sex and gender. Sex never changes. You are always XX or XY.
You can believe what you want as long as you are not infringing on other people’s rights (liberty, privacy).
You can legally be a jerk but don’t be surprised that people will call you out about it.
I stand corrected and agree...my above statements where confusing. Biological sex at birth does not change. The gender identity tied to the biological sex at birth is a disputable issue. It is the belief whether gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth or not that is an issue, and what I mean when I state neither belief is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
I believe that gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
Another person may believe that gender identity is not tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is also not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
But both people must tolerate and accept each other's beliefs - respect each other's beliefs. That's all I am getting at. Neither side is doing this right now.
It all depends on how you are expressing your beliefs.
If someone believes that slavery is justified to what extent should that be tolerated?
Geez people...so long as a belief does not harm anyone it should be tolerated and respected.
People relating this to slavery and murder....of course that's wrong.
Gender conversion therapy is wrong.
I mean everyone has lost their common sense.
Where is the harm to anyone in believing that gender identity is tied to sex at birth? So long as I don't impose/force those beliefs on others and so long as I don't harm anyone based on those beliefs.
Great. You do that.
You too. Goes both ways.
Great. So no more pot-stirring threads about “religion”? No more ”separation of church and state”? No more anti-trans legislation?
Correct.
The only issue I want to discuss (not stir) is that the separation of church and state is antiquated..it should be expanded to separation of religion AND belief and state. Neither religion nor beliefs on gender identity belong in schools. Stick to the indisputable scientific topics of sex. Leave the disputable topic of gender identity which is based on belief out.
Because once you open the door on teaching based on beliefs you open the door to teaching on all other beliefs. If you want to teach gender identity then you can't complain when someone wants to teach about other beliefs such as 10 Commandments.
Correct. No more anti-trans legislation. No more anti-religious or belief legislation. No more anti-abortion legislation.
Then we are going to have to throw out all sorts of beliefs at school:
You shouldn't lie.
Stealing is bad.
You should be nice to people.
You should help people in need.
Girls should have the same opportunities as boys.
Racism is bad.
Secularism itself is a belief. Heck, so is the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Throw all of those out too?
Respecting other people’s identity isn’t a religious belief.
Teach that everyone should respect other people’s belief (whether a reliqious or ideological belief) in gender identity. Gender identity is a belief.
So if teaching gender identity...teach it holistically....gender identity is not indisputabley true or false, right or wrong. If a child comes in and says I believe cisgender identity is tied to biological sex at birth. That just be respected. They should also respect it should another student say they believe in non-binary gender. It's OK to have different beliefs. But don’t teach children only one belief on gender identity.
Gender identity isn’t right or wrong. It just is what it is. And it’s fluid.
Being a bigot isn’t a protected “belief”.
You are a hypocrite....you just agreed with me that gender identity is not indisputabley true or false, right or wrong.
Yet if I state that I tolerate and repect your personal belief that gender identity is fluid. You don't think I deserve the same tolerance and respect if I believe it's not? Wow.
The hypocrisy. Tolerance and respect is a two way street. Go ahead and call me any derogatory name you want (note, not once in this entire thread nor in my entire life have I ever used a derogatory remark towards anyone who believes gender identity is fluid)....I'll rise above it now because you're just a hypocrite.
I do not have the right to tell you what your belief should be. But you also do not have the right to tell me what my belief should be.
So I will continue teaching my children and grandchildren to tolerate and respect all beliefs. To treat everyone the same regardless of their beliefs. At the same time I will teach them to be individuals with their own values and beliefs...that it is okay to not agree with a belief so long as you still respect it and you are still respected in return for your belief.
No one is telling you what to believe. And maybe you’re confusing terms and concepts a bit. But there is no right or wrong gender identity for any particular person. It just is what it is.
You can certainly believe otherwise (clearly all of your beliefs aren’t totally grounded in reality), but expressing it outwardly is hurtful and disrespectful. For someone so “concerned” about respect you might want to reflect on that.
How is expressing my belief that gender identity correlates to biological sex hurtful and disrespectful? I am not saying you can't believe otherwise. You do you.
You can express it all you want. But that’s not enough for you is it?
You need to teach other people’s kids that your unscientific, superficial natural belief (or religious, delusions, or mental illness) are in fact, factually correct.
I think you need to take a breath because I am in total agreement with you, it's totally not my place to impose my gender identity belief on other people’s kids...and vice versa. Hence the argument of why it shouldn't be taught in schools. The same way the 10 Commandments should not be schools.
Which is why we should discuss reforming the antiquated Separation of Church and State for modern times....so that it encompasses Separation of Religions and Ideological Beliefs and State.
An honest discussion.
Why are you singling out those particular beliefs?
What about the belief that racism is bad? Girls should have the same opportunities as boys? Not everyone agrees with gender and racial equality “ideologies”.
Anonymous wrote:Not believing in one portion of your religion does not create a whole new religion. GMAFB.
The only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is to get your religion out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what happens with other people’s genitals.
I agree with you - the separation of Church and State is sacred and lines have been blurred (neither religion nor ideological beliefs belong in public schools)....but to my point...the only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is for you to also accept that some people have the religious right to believe in and teach their children on cis-genderism...to get your ideological beliefs out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what other people believe when it comes to gender identity.
People having a sense of self isn’t “ideological beliefs”.
You can believe whatever you want at home. If you start taking steps to hurt others because of your “beliefs”, that’s an issue.
Agree to disagree. Because IMHO "sense of self" is a belief.
Your sense of self refers to your perception of the collection of characteristics that define you. Personality traits, abilities, likes and dislikes, your belief system or moral code, and the things that motivate you — these all contribute to self-image or your unique identity as a person. Source: https://www.healthline.com/health/sense-of-self
But here's the thing, either way I respect all beliefs. Get it?
“Sense of self” is not an “ideological belief”.
Of course it is a belief. What do you think it is? Science?
There are all kinds of “beliefs”. It’s not an ideological belief.
So we all agree that it's a belief? Ideological is an adjective that describes political, cultural, or religious beliefs.
So here's the thing -- saying gender identity is an ideological belief is not "wrong" - it's all about the context and perspective. If you are referring to gender identity based on political, cultural, or religious beliefs...then yes, it is an ideological belief.
So based on your political, cultural, or religious beliefs you argue that gender identity is not an ideological belief. But based on my political, cultural, or religious beliefs I argue that gender identity ISan ideological belief.
...and we have to agree to disagree.
^correction
Well that’s the problem isn’t it? It is not OK to agree to disagree on this topic.
Some people refuse to believe feelings and body modifications change individuals from female to male, while others insist that the government impose policies in accordance with this belief.
The belief in something does not make it true, does not make it right or wrong.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications does notchange an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.
They are both beliefs, neither one is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
So it is everyone's right to refuse to believe in one or the other...whether based on religious or ideological beliefs. And the fact that neither side can see this is what is frustrating....and what is polarizing our nation more and more.
Both sides must learn to tolerate and accept one another. To respect one another.
No, you are conflating sex and gender. Sex never changes. You are always XX or XY.
You can believe what you want as long as you are not infringing on other people’s rights (liberty, privacy).
You can legally be a jerk but don’t be surprised that people will call you out about it.
I stand corrected and agree...my above statements where confusing. Biological sex at birth does not change. The gender identity tied to the biological sex at birth is a disputable issue. It is the belief whether gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth or not that is an issue, and what I mean when I state neither belief is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
I believe that gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
Another person may believe that gender identity is not tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is also not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
But both people must tolerate and accept each other's beliefs - respect each other's beliefs. That's all I am getting at. Neither side is doing this right now.
It all depends on how you are expressing your beliefs.
If someone believes that slavery is justified to what extent should that be tolerated?
Geez people...so long as a belief does not harm anyone it should be tolerated and respected.
People relating this to slavery and murder....of course that's wrong.
Gender conversion therapy is wrong.
I mean everyone has lost their common sense.
Where is the harm to anyone in believing that gender identity is tied to sex at birth? So long as I don't impose/force those beliefs on others and so long as I don't harm anyone based on those beliefs.
Great. You do that.
You too. Goes both ways.
Great. So no more pot-stirring threads about “religion”? No more ”separation of church and state”? No more anti-trans legislation?
Correct.
The only issue I want to discuss (not stir) is that the separation of church and state is antiquated..it should be expanded to separation of religion AND belief and state. Neither religion nor beliefs on gender identity belong in schools. Stick to the indisputable scientific topics of sex. Leave the disputable topic of gender identity which is based on belief out.
Because once you open the door on teaching based on beliefs you open the door to teaching on all other beliefs. If you want to teach gender identity then you can't complain when someone wants to teach about other beliefs such as 10 Commandments.
Correct. No more anti-trans legislation. No more anti-religious or belief legislation. No more anti-abortion legislation.
Then we are going to have to throw out all sorts of beliefs at school:
You shouldn't lie.
Stealing is bad.
You should be nice to people.
You should help people in need.
Girls should have the same opportunities as boys.
Racism is bad.
Secularism itself is a belief. Heck, so is the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Throw all of those out too?
Respecting other people’s identity isn’t a religious belief.
Teach that everyone should respect other people’s belief (whether a reliqious or ideological belief) in gender identity. Gender identity is a belief.
So if teaching gender identity...teach it holistically....gender identity is not indisputabley true or false, right or wrong. If a child comes in and says I believe cisgender identity is tied to biological sex at birth. That just be respected. They should also respect it should another student say they believe in non-binary gender. It's OK to have different beliefs. But don’t teach children only one belief on gender identity.
Gender identity isn’t right or wrong. It just is what it is. And it’s fluid.
Being a bigot isn’t a protected “belief”.
You are a hypocrite....you just agreed with me that gender identity is not indisputabley true or false, right or wrong.
Yet if I state that I tolerate and repect your personal belief that gender identity is fluid. You don't think I deserve the same tolerance and respect if I believe it's not? Wow.
The hypocrisy. Tolerance and respect is a two way street. Go ahead and call me any derogatory name you want (note, not once in this entire thread nor in my entire life have I ever used a derogatory remark towards anyone who believes gender identity is fluid)....I'll rise above it now because you're just a hypocrite.
I do not have the right to tell you what your belief should be. But you also do not have the right to tell me what my belief should be.
So I will continue teaching my children and grandchildren to tolerate and respect all beliefs. To treat everyone the same regardless of their beliefs. At the same time I will teach them to be individuals with their own values and beliefs...that it is okay to not agree with a belief so long as you still respect it and you are still respected in return for your belief.
No one is telling you what to believe. And maybe you’re confusing terms and concepts a bit. But there is no right or wrong gender identity for any particular person. It just is what it is.
You can certainly believe otherwise (clearly all of your beliefs aren’t totally grounded in reality), but expressing it outwardly is hurtful and disrespectful. For someone so “concerned” about respect you might want to reflect on that.
How is expressing my belief that gender identity correlates to biological sex hurtful and disrespectful? I am not saying you can't believe otherwise. You do you.
You can express it all you want. But that’s not enough for you is it?
You need to teach other people’s kids that your unscientific, superficial natural belief (or religious, delusions, or mental illness) are in fact, factually correct.
I think you need to take a breath because I am in total agreement with you, it's totally not my place to impose my gender identity belief on other people’s kids...and vice versa. Hence the argument of why it shouldn't be taught in schools. The same way the 10 Commandments should not be schools.
Which is why we should discuss reforming the antiquated Separation of Church and State for modern times....so that it encompasses Separation of Religions and Ideological Beliefs and State.
An honest discussion.
Agreed. Unfortunately there are people who are teaching kids that if they want to be the other sex, that is totally valid feeling and puberty blockers, cross sex hormones and body modification surgery to remove their sex organs can help their feelings feel better, despite the fact there no evidence for this claim.
Well...here's the kicker. I can tell you that there are certain cases where for the mental health of the child
...and also based on the "beliefs" of the parent.....that I won't be the one to tell them how they should raise their child. That was my "pro" argument for establishing the belief of gender identity as a religious ideology. If we all agree on this and so long as there is evidence of no harm to the child (I know, that's the debate, but qualified doctors would make that call), then a parent has the sovereign and constitutional right to make those decisions for their child...if based on ideological beliefs.
For example, I personally believe that all children should go through puberty as it is a natural human biological occurrence. But if I know a parent who believes in gender (both identity and sexual) fluidity and they have actual medical evidence that any medical procedure "does no harm" than who am I to tell them how to raise their child?
So long as they don't tell me how to raise mine. Again, another argument for why gender (both identity and sexual) fluidity education doesn't belong in schools. Parents should be responsible for that. The only thing that should be taught in schools is "do no harm" and "do not discriminate" based on anyone's sex , race, gender beliefs, religious beliefs, etc.
This would be a very common sense approach that has both sides compromise so that all parents and children are equally protected and respected.
Now...I will add another final thought here....although it is somewhat off-topic. We have done a horrible job of taking care of the mental health of our society, but especially of our youth. Mental health is the same, but arguably more important than physical health when it comes to children. We require annual physical health checkups of our children to participate in school and sports. We should also require annual mental health checkups. Consider this...annual mental health checkups would be "preventative care" and would potentially catch any issues that otherwise go unchecked which would hopefully start reducing the teen suicide rates and teen school shootings even. But that’s a topic for another thread.
Anonymous wrote:Not believing in one portion of your religion does not create a whole new religion. GMAFB.
The only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is to get your religion out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what happens with other people’s genitals.
I agree with you - the separation of Church and State is sacred and lines have been blurred (neither religion nor ideological beliefs belong in public schools)....but to my point...the only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is for you to also accept that some people have the religious right to believe in and teach their children on cis-genderism...to get your ideological beliefs out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what other people believe when it comes to gender identity.
People having a sense of self isn’t “ideological beliefs”.
You can believe whatever you want at home. If you start taking steps to hurt others because of your “beliefs”, that’s an issue.
Agree to disagree. Because IMHO "sense of self" is a belief.
Your sense of self refers to your perception of the collection of characteristics that define you. Personality traits, abilities, likes and dislikes, your belief system or moral code, and the things that motivate you — these all contribute to self-image or your unique identity as a person. Source: https://www.healthline.com/health/sense-of-self
But here's the thing, either way I respect all beliefs. Get it?
“Sense of self” is not an “ideological belief”.
Of course it is a belief. What do you think it is? Science?
There are all kinds of “beliefs”. It’s not an ideological belief.
So we all agree that it's a belief? Ideological is an adjective that describes political, cultural, or religious beliefs.
So here's the thing -- saying gender identity is an ideological belief is not "wrong" - it's all about the context and perspective. If you are referring to gender identity based on political, cultural, or religious beliefs...then yes, it is an ideological belief.
So based on your political, cultural, or religious beliefs you argue that gender identity is not an ideological belief. But based on my political, cultural, or religious beliefs I argue that gender identity ISan ideological belief.
...and we have to agree to disagree.
^correction
Well that’s the problem isn’t it? It is not OK to agree to disagree on this topic.
Some people refuse to believe feelings and body modifications change individuals from female to male, while others insist that the government impose policies in accordance with this belief.
The belief in something does not make it true, does not make it right or wrong.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications does notchange an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.
They are both beliefs, neither one is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
So it is everyone's right to refuse to believe in one or the other...whether based on religious or ideological beliefs. And the fact that neither side can see this is what is frustrating....and what is polarizing our nation more and more.
Both sides must learn to tolerate and accept one another. To respect one another.
No, you are conflating sex and gender. Sex never changes. You are always XX or XY.
You can believe what you want as long as you are not infringing on other people’s rights (liberty, privacy).
You can legally be a jerk but don’t be surprised that people will call you out about it.
I stand corrected and agree...my above statements where confusing. Biological sex at birth does not change. The gender identity tied to the biological sex at birth is a disputable issue. It is the belief whether gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth or not that is an issue, and what I mean when I state neither belief is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
I believe that gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
Another person may believe that gender identity is not tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is also not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
But both people must tolerate and accept each other's beliefs - respect each other's beliefs. That's all I am getting at. Neither side is doing this right now.
It all depends on how you are expressing your beliefs.
If someone believes that slavery is justified to what extent should that be tolerated?
Geez people...so long as a belief does not harm anyone it should be tolerated and respected.
People relating this to slavery and murder....of course that's wrong.
Gender conversion therapy is wrong.
I mean everyone has lost their common sense.
Where is the harm to anyone in believing that gender identity is tied to sex at birth? So long as I don't impose/force those beliefs on others and so long as I don't harm anyone based on those beliefs.
Great. You do that.
You too. Goes both ways.
Great. So no more pot-stirring threads about “religion”? No more ”separation of church and state”? No more anti-trans legislation?
Correct.
The only issue I want to discuss (not stir) is that the separation of church and state is antiquated..it should be expanded to separation of religion AND belief and state. Neither religion nor beliefs on gender identity belong in schools. Stick to the indisputable scientific topics of sex. Leave the disputable topic of gender identity which is based on belief out.
Because once you open the door on teaching based on beliefs you open the door to teaching on all other beliefs. If you want to teach gender identity then you can't complain when someone wants to teach about other beliefs such as 10 Commandments.
Correct. No more anti-trans legislation. No more anti-religious or belief legislation. No more anti-abortion legislation.
Then we are going to have to throw out all sorts of beliefs at school:
You shouldn't lie.
Stealing is bad.
You should be nice to people.
You should help people in need.
Girls should have the same opportunities as boys.
Racism is bad.
Secularism itself is a belief. Heck, so is the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Throw all of those out too?
Respecting other people’s identity isn’t a religious belief.
Teach that everyone should respect other people’s belief (whether a reliqious or ideological belief) in gender identity. Gender identity is a belief.
So if teaching gender identity...teach it holistically....gender identity is not indisputabley true or false, right or wrong. If a child comes in and says I believe cisgender identity is tied to biological sex at birth. That just be respected. They should also respect it should another student say they believe in non-binary gender. It's OK to have different beliefs. But don’t teach children only one belief on gender identity.
Gender identity isn’t right or wrong. It just is what it is. And it’s fluid.
Being a bigot isn’t a protected “belief”.
You are a hypocrite....you just agreed with me that gender identity is not indisputabley true or false, right or wrong.
Yet if I state that I tolerate and repect your personal belief that gender identity is fluid. You don't think I deserve the same tolerance and respect if I believe it's not? Wow.
The hypocrisy. Tolerance and respect is a two way street. Go ahead and call me any derogatory name you want (note, not once in this entire thread nor in my entire life have I ever used a derogatory remark towards anyone who believes gender identity is fluid)....I'll rise above it now because you're just a hypocrite.
I do not have the right to tell you what your belief should be. But you also do not have the right to tell me what my belief should be.
So I will continue teaching my children and grandchildren to tolerate and respect all beliefs. To treat everyone the same regardless of their beliefs. At the same time I will teach them to be individuals with their own values and beliefs...that it is okay to not agree with a belief so long as you still respect it and you are still respected in return for your belief.
No one is telling you what to believe. And maybe you’re confusing terms and concepts a bit. But there is no right or wrong gender identity for any particular person. It just is what it is.
You can certainly believe otherwise (clearly all of your beliefs aren’t totally grounded in reality), but expressing it outwardly is hurtful and disrespectful. For someone so “concerned” about respect you might want to reflect on that.
How is expressing my belief that gender identity correlates to biological sex hurtful and disrespectful? I am not saying you can't believe otherwise. You do you.
You can express it all you want. But that’s not enough for you is it?
You need to teach other people’s kids that your unscientific, superficial natural belief (or religious, delusions, or mental illness) are in fact, factually correct.
I think you need to take a breath because I am in total agreement with you, it's totally not my place to impose my gender identity belief on other people’s kids...and vice versa. Hence the argument of why it shouldn't be taught in schools. The same way the 10 Commandments should not be schools.
Which is why we should discuss reforming the antiquated Separation of Church and State for modern times....so that it encompasses Separation of Religions and Ideological Beliefs and State.
An honest discussion.
Why are you singling out those particular beliefs?
What about the belief that racism is bad? Girls should have the same opportunities as boys? Not everyone agrees with gender and racial equality “ideologies”.
Should we stop teaching those in school?
Per my post above....that is what we SHOULD teach in schools -- education of "do no harm" (no bullying) and "do not discriminate" anyone based on their race, sex, sexual orientation, gender, gender identity beliefs, religious beliefs, etc. That is what should be taught and reinforced. The "sex education" that is in public schools (bring back that term!)...should focus only on biological and scientific facts of a child's sex - you can do a high-level of all of the various gender (sex and identity) beliefs and teach that they should all be respected. But anything related to teaching of gender (sex and identity) - cis-gender v. gender fluidity being the "true" or "right" belief....should be offered as an "opt-out" at the very least.
Anonymous wrote:Not believing in one portion of your religion does not create a whole new religion. GMAFB.
The only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is to get your religion out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what happens with other people’s genitals.
I agree with you - the separation of Church and State is sacred and lines have been blurred (neither religion nor ideological beliefs belong in public schools)....but to my point...the only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is for you to also accept that some people have the religious right to believe in and teach their children on cis-genderism...to get your ideological beliefs out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what other people believe when it comes to gender identity.
People having a sense of self isn’t “ideological beliefs”.
You can believe whatever you want at home. If you start taking steps to hurt others because of your “beliefs”, that’s an issue.
Agree to disagree. Because IMHO "sense of self" is a belief.
Your sense of self refers to your perception of the collection of characteristics that define you. Personality traits, abilities, likes and dislikes, your belief system or moral code, and the things that motivate you — these all contribute to self-image or your unique identity as a person. Source: https://www.healthline.com/health/sense-of-self
But here's the thing, either way I respect all beliefs. Get it?
“Sense of self” is not an “ideological belief”.
Of course it is a belief. What do you think it is? Science?
There are all kinds of “beliefs”. It’s not an ideological belief.
So we all agree that it's a belief? Ideological is an adjective that describes political, cultural, or religious beliefs.
So here's the thing -- saying gender identity is an ideological belief is not "wrong" - it's all about the context and perspective. If you are referring to gender identity based on political, cultural, or religious beliefs...then yes, it is an ideological belief.
So based on your political, cultural, or religious beliefs you argue that gender identity is not an ideological belief. But based on my political, cultural, or religious beliefs I argue that gender identity ISan ideological belief.
...and we have to agree to disagree.
^correction
Well that’s the problem isn’t it? It is not OK to agree to disagree on this topic.
Some people refuse to believe feelings and body modifications change individuals from female to male, while others insist that the government impose policies in accordance with this belief.
The belief in something does not make it true, does not make it right or wrong.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications does notchange an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.
They are both beliefs, neither one is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
So it is everyone's right to refuse to believe in one or the other...whether based on religious or ideological beliefs. And the fact that neither side can see this is what is frustrating....and what is polarizing our nation more and more.
Both sides must learn to tolerate and accept one another. To respect one another.
No, you are conflating sex and gender. Sex never changes. You are always XX or XY.
You can believe what you want as long as you are not infringing on other people’s rights (liberty, privacy).
You can legally be a jerk but don’t be surprised that people will call you out about it.
I stand corrected and agree...my above statements where confusing. Biological sex at birth does not change. The gender identity tied to the biological sex at birth is a disputable issue. It is the belief whether gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth or not that is an issue, and what I mean when I state neither belief is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
I believe that gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
Another person may believe that gender identity is not tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is also not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
But both people must tolerate and accept each other's beliefs - respect each other's beliefs. That's all I am getting at. Neither side is doing this right now.
It all depends on how you are expressing your beliefs.
If someone believes that slavery is justified to what extent should that be tolerated?
Geez people...so long as a belief does not harm anyone it should be tolerated and respected.
People relating this to slavery and murder....of course that's wrong.
Gender conversion therapy is wrong.
I mean everyone has lost their common sense.
Where is the harm to anyone in believing that gender identity is tied to sex at birth? So long as I don't impose/force those beliefs on others and so long as I don't harm anyone based on those beliefs.
Great. You do that.
You too. Goes both ways.
Great. So no more pot-stirring threads about “religion”? No more ”separation of church and state”? No more anti-trans legislation?
Correct.
The only issue I want to discuss (not stir) is that the separation of church and state is antiquated..it should be expanded to separation of religion AND belief and state. Neither religion nor beliefs on gender identity belong in schools. Stick to the indisputable scientific topics of sex. Leave the disputable topic of gender identity which is based on belief out.
Because once you open the door on teaching based on beliefs you open the door to teaching on all other beliefs. If you want to teach gender identity then you can't complain when someone wants to teach about other beliefs such as 10 Commandments.
Correct. No more anti-trans legislation. No more anti-religious or belief legislation. No more anti-abortion legislation.
Then we are going to have to throw out all sorts of beliefs at school:
You shouldn't lie.
Stealing is bad.
You should be nice to people.
You should help people in need.
Girls should have the same opportunities as boys.
Racism is bad.
Secularism itself is a belief. Heck, so is the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Throw all of those out too?
Respecting other people’s identity isn’t a religious belief.
Teach that everyone should respect other people’s belief (whether a reliqious or ideological belief) in gender identity. Gender identity is a belief.
So if teaching gender identity...teach it holistically....gender identity is not indisputabley true or false, right or wrong. If a child comes in and says I believe cisgender identity is tied to biological sex at birth. That just be respected. They should also respect it should another student say they believe in non-binary gender. It's OK to have different beliefs. But don’t teach children only one belief on gender identity.
Gender identity isn’t right or wrong. It just is what it is. And it’s fluid.
Being a bigot isn’t a protected “belief”.
You are a hypocrite....you just agreed with me that gender identity is not indisputabley true or false, right or wrong.
Yet if I state that I tolerate and repect your personal belief that gender identity is fluid. You don't think I deserve the same tolerance and respect if I believe it's not? Wow.
The hypocrisy. Tolerance and respect is a two way street. Go ahead and call me any derogatory name you want (note, not once in this entire thread nor in my entire life have I ever used a derogatory remark towards anyone who believes gender identity is fluid)....I'll rise above it now because you're just a hypocrite.
I do not have the right to tell you what your belief should be. But you also do not have the right to tell me what my belief should be.
So I will continue teaching my children and grandchildren to tolerate and respect all beliefs. To treat everyone the same regardless of their beliefs. At the same time I will teach them to be individuals with their own values and beliefs...that it is okay to not agree with a belief so long as you still respect it and you are still respected in return for your belief.
No one is telling you what to believe. And maybe you’re confusing terms and concepts a bit. But there is no right or wrong gender identity for any particular person. It just is what it is.
You can certainly believe otherwise (clearly all of your beliefs aren’t totally grounded in reality), but expressing it outwardly is hurtful and disrespectful. For someone so “concerned” about respect you might want to reflect on that.
How is expressing my belief that gender identity correlates to biological sex hurtful and disrespectful? I am not saying you can't believe otherwise. You do you.
You can express it all you want. But that’s not enough for you is it?
You need to teach other people’s kids that your unscientific, superficial natural belief (or religious, delusions, or mental illness) are in fact, factually correct.
I think you need to take a breath because I am in total agreement with you, it's totally not my place to impose my gender identity belief on other people’s kids...and vice versa. Hence the argument of why it shouldn't be taught in schools. The same way the 10 Commandments should not be schools.
Which is why we should discuss reforming the antiquated Separation of Church and State for modern times....so that it encompasses Separation of Religions and Ideological Beliefs and State.
An honest discussion.
Why are you singling out those particular beliefs?
What about the belief that racism is bad? Girls should have the same opportunities as boys? Not everyone agrees with gender and racial equality “ideologies”.
Should we stop teaching those in school?
Per my post above....that is what we SHOULD teach in schools -- education of "do no harm" (no bullying) and "do not discriminate" anyone based on their race, sex, sexual orientation, gender, gender identity beliefs, religious beliefs, etc. That is what should be taught and reinforced. The "sex education" that is in public schools (bring back that term!)...should focus only on biological and scientific facts of a child's sex - you can do a high-level of all of the various gender (sex and identity) beliefs and teach that they should all be respected. But anything related to teaching of gender (sex and identity) - cis-gender v. gender fluidity being the "true" or "right" belief....should be offered as an "opt-out" at the very least.
Why are you focusing just that one “ideology” though?
Why can’t parents pick and choose to opt their kids out of gender equality “ideology” or racial equality “ideology”?
Is your issue with “ideologies” or just specifically transgenderism?
Anonymous wrote:Not believing in one portion of your religion does not create a whole new religion. GMAFB.
The only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is to get your religion out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what happens with other people’s genitals.
I agree with you - the separation of Church and State is sacred and lines have been blurred (neither religion nor ideological beliefs belong in public schools)....but to my point...the only way we could possibly “agree to disagree” is for you to also accept that some people have the religious right to believe in and teach their children on cis-genderism...to get your ideological beliefs out of other people’s lives. Stop trying to control what other people believe when it comes to gender identity.
People having a sense of self isn’t “ideological beliefs”.
You can believe whatever you want at home. If you start taking steps to hurt others because of your “beliefs”, that’s an issue.
Agree to disagree. Because IMHO "sense of self" is a belief.
Your sense of self refers to your perception of the collection of characteristics that define you. Personality traits, abilities, likes and dislikes, your belief system or moral code, and the things that motivate you — these all contribute to self-image or your unique identity as a person. Source: https://www.healthline.com/health/sense-of-self
But here's the thing, either way I respect all beliefs. Get it?
“Sense of self” is not an “ideological belief”.
Of course it is a belief. What do you think it is? Science?
There are all kinds of “beliefs”. It’s not an ideological belief.
So we all agree that it's a belief? Ideological is an adjective that describes political, cultural, or religious beliefs.
So here's the thing -- saying gender identity is an ideological belief is not "wrong" - it's all about the context and perspective. If you are referring to gender identity based on political, cultural, or religious beliefs...then yes, it is an ideological belief.
So based on your political, cultural, or religious beliefs you argue that gender identity is not an ideological belief. But based on my political, cultural, or religious beliefs I argue that gender identity ISan ideological belief.
...and we have to agree to disagree.
^correction
Well that’s the problem isn’t it? It is not OK to agree to disagree on this topic.
Some people refuse to believe feelings and body modifications change individuals from female to male, while others insist that the government impose policies in accordance with this belief.
The belief in something does not make it true, does not make it right or wrong.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications change an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.
Some people believe that feelings and body modifications does notchange an individual's biological sex at birth from female to male.
They are both beliefs, neither one is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
So it is everyone's right to refuse to believe in one or the other...whether based on religious or ideological beliefs. And the fact that neither side can see this is what is frustrating....and what is polarizing our nation more and more.
Both sides must learn to tolerate and accept one another. To respect one another.
No, you are conflating sex and gender. Sex never changes. You are always XX or XY.
You can believe what you want as long as you are not infringing on other people’s rights (liberty, privacy).
You can legally be a jerk but don’t be surprised that people will call you out about it.
I stand corrected and agree...my above statements where confusing. Biological sex at birth does not change. The gender identity tied to the biological sex at birth is a disputable issue. It is the belief whether gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth or not that is an issue, and what I mean when I state neither belief is indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
I believe that gender identity is tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
Another person may believe that gender identity is not tied to biological sex at birth. This belief is also not indisputably true or false, right or wrong.
But both people must tolerate and accept each other's beliefs - respect each other's beliefs. That's all I am getting at. Neither side is doing this right now.
It all depends on how you are expressing your beliefs.
If someone believes that slavery is justified to what extent should that be tolerated?
Geez people...so long as a belief does not harm anyone it should be tolerated and respected.
People relating this to slavery and murder....of course that's wrong.
Gender conversion therapy is wrong.
I mean everyone has lost their common sense.
Where is the harm to anyone in believing that gender identity is tied to sex at birth? So long as I don't impose/force those beliefs on others and so long as I don't harm anyone based on those beliefs.
Great. You do that.
You too. Goes both ways.
Great. So no more pot-stirring threads about “religion”? No more ”separation of church and state”? No more anti-trans legislation?
Correct.
The only issue I want to discuss (not stir) is that the separation of church and state is antiquated..it should be expanded to separation of religion AND belief and state. Neither religion nor beliefs on gender identity belong in schools. Stick to the indisputable scientific topics of sex. Leave the disputable topic of gender identity which is based on belief out.
Because once you open the door on teaching based on beliefs you open the door to teaching on all other beliefs. If you want to teach gender identity then you can't complain when someone wants to teach about other beliefs such as 10 Commandments.
Correct. No more anti-trans legislation. No more anti-religious or belief legislation. No more anti-abortion legislation.
Then we are going to have to throw out all sorts of beliefs at school:
You shouldn't lie.
Stealing is bad.
You should be nice to people.
You should help people in need.
Girls should have the same opportunities as boys.
Racism is bad.
Secularism itself is a belief. Heck, so is the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Throw all of those out too?
Respecting other people’s identity isn’t a religious belief.
Teach that everyone should respect other people’s belief (whether a reliqious or ideological belief) in gender identity. Gender identity is a belief.
So if teaching gender identity...teach it holistically....gender identity is not indisputabley true or false, right or wrong. If a child comes in and says I believe cisgender identity is tied to biological sex at birth. That just be respected. They should also respect it should another student say they believe in non-binary gender. It's OK to have different beliefs. But don’t teach children only one belief on gender identity.
Gender identity isn’t right or wrong. It just is what it is. And it’s fluid.
Being a bigot isn’t a protected “belief”.
You are a hypocrite....you just agreed with me that gender identity is not indisputabley true or false, right or wrong.
Yet if I state that I tolerate and repect your personal belief that gender identity is fluid. You don't think I deserve the same tolerance and respect if I believe it's not? Wow.
The hypocrisy. Tolerance and respect is a two way street. Go ahead and call me any derogatory name you want (note, not once in this entire thread nor in my entire life have I ever used a derogatory remark towards anyone who believes gender identity is fluid)....I'll rise above it now because you're just a hypocrite.
I do not have the right to tell you what your belief should be. But you also do not have the right to tell me what my belief should be.
So I will continue teaching my children and grandchildren to tolerate and respect all beliefs. To treat everyone the same regardless of their beliefs. At the same time I will teach them to be individuals with their own values and beliefs...that it is okay to not agree with a belief so long as you still respect it and you are still respected in return for your belief.
No one is telling you what to believe. And maybe you’re confusing terms and concepts a bit. But there is no right or wrong gender identity for any particular person. It just is what it is.
You can certainly believe otherwise (clearly all of your beliefs aren’t totally grounded in reality), but expressing it outwardly is hurtful and disrespectful. For someone so “concerned” about respect you might want to reflect on that.
How is expressing my belief that gender identity correlates to biological sex hurtful and disrespectful? I am not saying you can't believe otherwise. You do you.
You can express it all you want. But that’s not enough for you is it?
You need to teach other people’s kids that your unscientific, superficial natural belief (or religious, delusions, or mental illness) are in fact, factually correct.
I think you need to take a breath because I am in total agreement with you, it's totally not my place to impose my gender identity belief on other people’s kids...and vice versa. Hence the argument of why it shouldn't be taught in schools. The same way the 10 Commandments should not be schools.
Which is why we should discuss reforming the antiquated Separation of Church and State for modern times....so that it encompasses Separation of Religions and Ideological Beliefs and State.
An honest discussion.
Why are you singling out those particular beliefs?
What about the belief that racism is bad? Girls should have the same opportunities as boys? Not everyone agrees with gender and racial equality “ideologies”.
Should we stop teaching those in school?
Per my post above....that is what we SHOULD teach in schools -- education of "do no harm" (no bullying) and "do not discriminate" anyone based on their race, sex, sexual orientation, gender, gender identity beliefs, religious beliefs, etc. That is what should be taught and reinforced. The "sex education" that is in public schools (bring back that term!)...should focus only on biological and scientific facts of a child's sex - you can do a high-level of all of the various gender (sex and identity) beliefs and teach that they should all be respected. But anything related to teaching of gender (sex and identity) - cis-gender v. gender fluidity being the "true" or "right" belief....should be offered as an "opt-out" at the very least.
So you think some ideologies - racial & gender equality- are ok to teach, but not others?
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