Why are kids with problematic behavior left in mainstream classes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a teacher and things are out of control. I have a student flipping a desk on almost a daily basis because he gets frustrated with his math (compacted). He screams and sets off other students. The other students are scared and I’m frustrated. Everyone refuses to be his partner which further enrages him.

I have 4 other students with hefty IEP’s and 3 with 504 plans. This 7 kids ALL have preferential seating.

Plenty others will not stop talking.

I am a 20 year veteran teacher who has always been highly rated and requested by parents. It has never been this bad.

My primary responsibility seems to have changed from providing high quality education to being a babysitter and just trying to keep kids safe. I hate teaching now. It used to be fun for students and teachers but the behaviors and lack of discipline/ consequences have made it a daily hell.

I’m sorry to hear this. My sister-in-law is a teacher and she tells me the same. She will NEVER encourage her kids to go into teaching. She’s a fantastic teacher and enjoys the actual teaching, but the disciplinary issues are soul-sucking.

[Anonymous]

If a coworker did that to me at work, I'd file a police report. Why should me child be subjected to out of control kids?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Unpopular opinion but LRE is not beneficial for the students its in place for. So many children need to be in a resource room in order to receive the support and services they need. This is both academically and behaviorally. In theory, it looks great on paper and it sounds great for equity. However, in practice, it is not best practice for all of the students in the classroom.

I think this as well.

That post doesn't even make sense. How can you think that as well?

It most assuredly does make sense, and I agree with it also. DP

Another agreement that it makes sense, and that I agree. NP

And the research demonstrating otherwise?

Feel free to cite a recent, solid source, if you like.

30 years experience in the classroom. Listen to the people actually in the buildings, doing the work. Research means nothing when these people havent stepped foot in a classroom in years, or usually, ever.

I'm really curious how you're able to get a broad view of long-term outcomes of students placed in different settings as a classroom teacher. How do you know how your students would have performed if some were placed in a different classroom and teacher? And how do you know about long-term outcomes after they leave your classroom and school? Care to explain?

My kid is in a sped classroom. I keep in touch with his elem teacher that helped me get him in there. I share with her how he's doing and let her know that I'm open to discussing the placement with any parent that is on the fence about the program. My kids elem teacher knows exactly how well he's doing and how the change in placement made a huge difference.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't have a dog in this fight but you all should be so very grateful that you do not have a child who has these challenges. Take just a moment and think what it must be like for those parents.

One can feel sympathy for the families dealing with these issues, and also recognize that the current policies don’t work. Kids should not have to evacuate a classroom because their classmate is throwing furniture. Students who throw things or otherwise abuse their teachers or classmates should not be in mainstream classrooms. Sympathy for their parents doesn’t change that.

Shouldn’t this be called attempted murder?!

throwing a tub of playdoh is attempted murder?

Throwing chairs and tables, not “Play-Doh,” but then, you already knew that.

"Throwing" tables? That's impressive. How high and how far?

My kid was in a class in 4th grade where the student would flip desks over, throw chairs and threw the trash can. Some of these 4th and 5th grade students can be pretty strong.

OK. The PP said students were throwing tables. I'd like to see that. From a distance, of course. Flipping over tables isn't as impressive. Or dangerous.

Nobody cares about what impresses you and your sense of danger is misplaced. You as a grown adult are better equipped to deal with and defend yourself from violence. Kids, not so much. This type of activity has no place in a classroom

Nor is it OK to lie or exaggerate about what kids are and are not doing in classrooms.

You're seriously squabbling over someone saying "throwing tables" when the more precise language would have been "flipping tables" and using that error to suggest that concerns about this kind of chaotic and disruptive behavior in the classroom are overblown? Talk about missing the forest for the trees....

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't have a dog in this fight but you all should be so very grateful that you do not have a child who has these challenges. Take just a moment and think what it must be like for those parents.

One can feel sympathy for the families dealing with these issues, and also recognize that the current policies don’t work. Kids should not have to evacuate a classroom because their classmate is throwing furniture. Students who throw things or otherwise abuse their teachers or classmates should not be in mainstream classrooms. Sympathy for their parents doesn’t change that.

Shouldn’t this be called attempted murder?!

throwing a tub of playdoh is attempted murder?

Throwing chairs and tables, not “Play-Doh,” but then, you already knew that.

"Throwing" tables? That's impressive. How high and how far?

We had a tiny 4 yr old flip over a large circular table last year in pre-k. We couldn’t believe it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't have a dog in this fight but you all should be so very grateful that you do not have a child who has these challenges. Take just a moment and think what it must be like for those parents.

One can feel sympathy for the families dealing with these issues, and also recognize that the current policies don’t work. Kids should not have to evacuate a classroom because their classmate is throwing furniture. Students who throw things or otherwise abuse their teachers or classmates should not be in mainstream classrooms. Sympathy for their parents doesn’t change that.

Shouldn’t this be called attempted murder?!

throwing a tub of playdoh is attempted murder?

Throwing chairs and tables, not “Play-Doh,” but then, you already knew that.

"Throwing" tables? That's impressive. How high and how far?

My kid was in a class in 4th grade where the student would flip desks over, throw chairs and threw the trash can. Some of these 4th and 5th grade students can be pretty strong.

OK. The PP said students were throwing tables. I'd like to see that. From a distance, of course. Flipping over tables isn't as impressive. Or dangerous.

Tell that to the kid on the other side of the circular table. She was sent to the ER to make sure she didn’t have a concussion. Her 4 yr old classmate sent her to the hospital.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't have a dog in this fight but you all should be so very grateful that you do not have a child who has these challenges. Take just a moment and think what it must be like for those parents.

One can feel sympathy for the families dealing with these issues, and also recognize that the current policies don’t work. Kids should not have to evacuate a classroom because their classmate is throwing furniture. Students who throw things or otherwise abuse their teachers or classmates should not be in mainstream classrooms. Sympathy for their parents doesn’t change that.

Shouldn’t this be called attempted murder?!

throwing a tub of playdoh is attempted murder?

Throwing chairs and tables, not “Play-Doh,” but then, you already knew that.

"Throwing" tables? That's impressive. How high and how far?

We had a tiny 4 yr old flip over a large circular table last year in pre-k. We couldn’t believe it.

According to PP flipping the table is acceptable classroom behavior. She is only impressed by fully airborne tables.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't have a dog in this fight but you all should be so very grateful that you do not have a child who has these challenges. Take just a moment and think what it must be like for those parents.

One can feel sympathy for the families dealing with these issues, and also recognize that the current policies don’t work. Kids should not have to evacuate a classroom because their classmate is throwing furniture. Students who throw things or otherwise abuse their teachers or classmates should not be in mainstream classrooms. Sympathy for their parents doesn’t change that.

Shouldn’t this be called attempted murder?!

throwing a tub of playdoh is attempted murder?

Throwing chairs and tables, not “Play-Doh,” but then, you already knew that.

"Throwing" tables? That's impressive. How high and how far?

My kid was in a class in 4th grade where the student would flip desks over, throw chairs and threw the trash can. Some of these 4th and 5th grade students can be pretty strong.

OK. The PP said students were throwing tables. I'd like to see that. From a distance, of course. Flipping over tables isn't as impressive. Or dangerous.

Tell that to the kid on the other side of the circular table. She was sent to the ER to make sure she didn’t have a concussion. Her 4 yr old classmate sent her to the hospital.

Right. The idea that a kid abruptly flipping the table is a completely benign and innocuous action is absurd. It's violent, unsettling and unsafe.

[Anonymous]

Put all the disruptive kids together and let them battle

[Anonymous]

That way admin can punish and nonrenew teachers. There is no discipline or accountability so new teacher will feel the pressure to inflate, non report behavior, and get non renewed like it's their fault. That's called admin having their cake and eating it too. Only draw back. It ruins teachers careers and leads to ptsd of having no protection or control of an out of control environment. I don't recommend this profession.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That way admin can punish and nonrenew teachers. There is no discipline or accountability so new teacher will feel the pressure to inflate, non report behavior, and get non renewed like it's their fault. That's called admin having their cake and eating it too. Only draw back. It ruins teachers careers and leads to ptsd of having no protection or control of an out of control environment. I don't recommend this profession.

Except when there is discipline or accountability, I pretend it doesn't happen because of my agenda.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a teacher and things are out of control. I have a student flipping a desk on almost a daily basis because he gets frustrated with his math (compacted). He screams and sets off other students. The other students are scared and I’m frustrated. Everyone refuses to be his partner which further enrages him.

I have 4 other students with hefty IEP’s and 3 with 504 plans. This 7 kids ALL have preferential seating.

Plenty others will not stop talking.

I am a 20 year veteran teacher who has always been highly rated and requested by parents. It has never been this bad.

My primary responsibility seems to have changed from providing high quality education to being a babysitter and just trying to keep kids safe. I hate teaching now. It used to be fun for students and teachers but the behaviors and lack of discipline/ consequences have made it a daily hell.

+1 Same for middle school (8th graders) the worst behavior I have ever seen in my life. No consequences; no removal from the classroom. And these guys are BIG. A few of them decided to play 'basketball' with the masking tape in my room once and almost bounced me against the wall because they were running and playing instead of working on the classroom project. I can't trust them to do anything. They steal my supplies; I can't lock them up because I teach on a cart. I don't know how we can come back from this. It's unbelievable right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't have a dog in this fight but you all should be so very grateful that you do not have a child who has these challenges. Take just a moment and think what it must be like for those parents.

One can feel sympathy for the families dealing with these issues, and also recognize that the current policies don’t work. Kids should not have to evacuate a classroom because their classmate is throwing furniture. Students who throw things or otherwise abuse their teachers or classmates should not be in mainstream classrooms. Sympathy for their parents doesn’t change that.

Shouldn’t this be called attempted murder?!

throwing a tub of playdoh is attempted murder?

Throwing chairs and tables, not “Play-Doh,” but then, you already knew that.

A kid I went to school with died in an after care when a table fell on his head. So PP with the semantics over tables can take a long walk on a short pier splitting hairs over whether tables are flipped or thrown. A dropped table killed a boy once.

"Throwing" tables? That's impressive. How high and how far?

My kid was in a class in 4th grade where the student would flip desks over, throw chairs and threw the trash can. Some of these 4th and 5th grade students can be pretty strong.

OK. The PP said students were throwing tables. I'd like to see that. From a distance, of course. Flipping over tables isn't as impressive. Or dangerous.

Tell that to the kid on the other side of the circular table. She was sent to the ER to make sure she didn’t have a concussion. Her 4 yr old classmate sent her to the hospital.

Right. The idea that a kid abruptly flipping the table is a completely benign and innocuous action is absurd. It's violent, unsettling and unsafe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't have a dog in this fight but you all should be so very grateful that you do not have a child who has these challenges. Take just a moment and think what it must be like for those parents.

One can feel sympathy for the families dealing with these issues, and also recognize that the current policies don’t work. Kids should not have to evacuate a classroom because their classmate is throwing furniture. Students who throw things or otherwise abuse their teachers or classmates should not be in mainstream classrooms. Sympathy for their parents doesn’t change that.

Shouldn’t this be called attempted murder?!

throwing a tub of playdoh is attempted murder?

Throwing chairs and tables, not “Play-Doh,” but then, you already knew that.

A kid I went to school with died in an after care when a table fell on his head. So PP with the semantics over tables can take a long walk on a short pier splitting hairs over whether tables are flipped or thrown. A dropped table killed a boy once.

"Throwing" tables? That's impressive. How high and how far?

My kid was in a class in 4th grade where the student would flip desks over, throw chairs and threw the trash can. Some of these 4th and 5th grade students can be pretty strong.

OK. The PP said students were throwing tables. I'd like to see that. From a distance, of course. Flipping over tables isn't as impressive. Or dangerous.

Tell that to the kid on the other side of the circular table. She was sent to the ER to make sure she didn’t have a concussion. Her 4 yr old classmate sent her to the hospital.

Right. The idea that a kid abruptly flipping the table is a completely benign and innocuous action is absurd. It's violent, unsettling and unsafe.

A kid I went to school with died in an after care when a table fell on his head. So PP with the semantics over tables can take a long walk on a short pier splitting hairs over whether tables are flipped or thrown. A dropped table killed a boy once.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a parent of such a child. No thanks to the school system, she's never hurt anyone.

They refuse to make classes for these kids.

It is not a funding issue!

It is not a staffing issue!

It's a combination of hoping kids will age out (hence the long delays at every step)

And misplaced concerns about equity.

(My child is white, and I'd be thrilled for them to be in a self contained class with anyone of any color. Don't believe me? Find out how long the waiting list for such classes is in your district.)

Schools have been fighting these things longer than the word equity has existed. It's 100% about money.

My school district regularly pays out for losing lawsuits for these things.