Anyone marry a failure to launch husband?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I read these kinds of threads, I always wonder about the time when you first started dating. Were these guys living in their parent’s basement or on their own? If on their own, was their apartment relatively clean and were their bills paid? Once married, did you make their life too easy and now they are in lazy mode? How did your situation start?

I’m confused by your confusion. They mask. All crappy partners “mask.” Alcoholics, addicts, rage-aholics, sex addicts, and perennial losers. They keep it together for as long as they need to and once they feel comfortable, the real them comes out.

No one can “mask” being a loser. That would require high sociopathic intelligence and willful deception. If he’s a failure to launch bum, he is almost certainly not that smart or sophisticated.

The whole thing about failure to launch is it is immediately visible, ie. still living in mom’s basement, holding down menial jobs etc. (NOT being a GS 14, wth?)

All the failure to launch types I know failed to launch because they never had to. Either extremely wealthy or enabled by parents who could support them. They are smart, well-read, well-traveled, well-educated, own homes and usually work at something in a casual way that doesn't bring in much money.
I should know, since I'm one of them.

Good for you.

All the FTL 20-50 yos we know have unmanaged adhd or aspergers. Many of their parents do as well so they can’t figure it out.

Right now one was gifted a bunch of rental properties because he can’t hold down a job without messing up or saying/doing someone foolish.

Maybe it just sticks out more because these FTL DHs and [someone you know's] son are men.

How many women have well paid husbands--have a kid or more--then never go back to work. Is it because they are "better at being a SAHM" than working at regular jobs? DWs live in homes paid for by someone else, in this case their husband instead of wealthy parents. They "just volunteer" and do other non-regular jobs. Or have hobbies. Or hang out in Europe. When the shoe is on the other foot, it's not a FTL wife, is it? Just the males. Got it.

Didn’t catch who was parenting and raising the kids, managing the schedules / health/ ECs, maintaining the house, managing the staff and repair vendors, and planning the future trips and goals whilst the rich husband works all day and then night on his phone.

DP. I don't think this was the dig you read this to be. There are tons of SAHM who manage their homes and their family's lives beautifully. SAHMs are like teachers. When they are good, they are great! But when they aren't...watch out.

I agree with the PP's premise: FTL husbands often become low-performing serial entrepreneurs. FTL wives often become low-performing SAHMs.

Like a PP, I think this applies to a few women in my family. Families really needed their income, but the wives made it clear they wanted to stay home. Except their SAHM skills weren't all that great - houses were dirty, junk food for meals, rare involvement at their kids' school, kids often failing classes. In hindsight, I dismissed some of these SAHMs as simply lazy. And that may have been part of it, but I also suspect many of the deeper issues cited here - spoiled/entitled, historically propped up by family, anxiety, ADHD, autism/ASD. They were effectively using SAHM status to avoid the real world. My extended family is poor and it would totally make sense that mental health issues went undiagnosed. Most of these marriages ultimately crumbled.

I suspect an acquaintance is in this position. Married <3 years, wife has quit her job twice. Currently pregnant and looking for jobs. I doubt she goes back, and I doubt she'll be the June Cleaver SAHM either based on what I know of her. I still wish them the best.

[Anonymous]

I"m on this board because I am really trying to understand. I am a family member who has been warning my cousin for 2 decades. I am really trying to understand why on earth you would be so dismissive.

also, my relationship is quite strong so I am trying to offer other perspectives

also, it is a shame that noone warned you. that is on them as well. Maybe they did and you weren't ready to hear it?

DP. Something tells me you often offer unsolicited advice and/or just generally lack compassion with your family. You can deliver your opinion without being nasty.

I avoided a FTL husband and am damn proud of it. I do think I was super thoughtful about my husband's traits and made sure I got someone as driven and ambitious as I am. But I also underestimated some issues in him, as I'm sure he feels he underestimated some issues in me. And I've had friendships fail because I wasn't honest with myself about who I was/who they were, etc.

I'm humble enough to know I'm not perfect. I'm personally here to learn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I read these kinds of threads, I always wonder about the time when you first started dating. Were these guys living in their parent’s basement or on their own? If on their own, was their apartment relatively clean and were their bills paid? Once married, did you make their life too easy and now they are in lazy mode? How did your situation start?

I’m confused by your confusion. They mask. All crappy partners “mask.” Alcoholics, addicts, rage-aholics, sex addicts, and perennial losers. They keep it together for as long as they need to and once they feel comfortable, the real them comes out.

No one can “mask” being a loser. That would require high sociopathic intelligence and willful deception. If he’s a failure to launch bum, he is almost certainly not that smart or sophisticated.

The whole thing about failure to launch is it is immediately visible, ie. still living in mom’s basement, holding down menial jobs etc. (NOT being a GS 14, wth?)

All the failure to launch types I know failed to launch because they never had to. Either extremely wealthy or enabled by parents who could support them. They are smart, well-read, well-traveled, well-educated, own homes and usually work at something in a casual way that doesn't bring in much money.
I should know, since I'm one of them.

Good for you.

All the FTL 20-50 yos we know have unmanaged adhd or aspergers. Many of their parents do as well so they can’t figure it out.

Right now one was gifted a bunch of rental properties because he can’t hold down a job without messing up or saying/doing someone foolish.

Maybe it just sticks out more because these FTL DHs and [someone you know's] son are men.

How many women have well paid husbands--have a kid or more--then never go back to work. Is it because they are "better at being a SAHM" than working at regular jobs? DWs live in homes paid for by someone else, in this case their husband instead of wealthy parents. They "just volunteer" and do other non-regular jobs. Or have hobbies. Or hang out in Europe. When the shoe is on the other foot, it's not a FTL wife, is it? Just the males. Got it.

Didn’t catch who was parenting and raising the kids, managing the schedules / health/ ECs, maintaining the house, managing the staff and repair vendors, and planning the future trips and goals whilst the rich husband works all day and then night on his phone.

DP. I don't think this was the dig you read this to be. There are tons of SAHM who manage their homes and their family's lives beautifully. SAHMs are like teachers. When they are good, they are great! But when they aren't...watch out.

I agree with the PP's premise: FTL husbands often become low-performing serial entrepreneurs. FTL wives often become low-performing SAHMs.

Like a PP, I think this applies to a few women in my family. Families really needed their income, but the wives made it clear they wanted to stay home. Except their SAHM skills weren't all that great - houses were dirty, junk food for meals, rare involvement at their kids' school, kids often failing classes. In hindsight, I dismissed some of these SAHMs as simply lazy. And that may have been part of it, but I also suspect many of the deeper issues cited here - spoiled/entitled, historically propped up by family, anxiety, ADHD, autism/ASD. They were effectively using SAHM status to avoid the real world. My extended family is poor and it would totally make sense that mental health issues went undiagnosed. Most of these marriages ultimately crumbled.

I suspect an acquaintance is in this position. Married <3 years, wife has quit her job twice. Currently pregnant and looking for jobs. I doubt she goes back, and I doubt she'll be the June Cleaver SAHM either based on what I know of her. I still wish them the best.

I still don’t understand who is running the household, making the decisions, and raising the kids? Neither the husband nor the sAHW? And certainly not them together as a team.

Sounds like they’re both mentally disordered then.
And their house is chaos and their kids are neglected, left to their own devices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Usually the situation starts with a woman so desperate to get married that she overlooks a lot of very obvious things.

100% this and ignoring red flags and even warnings from friends and family.

In the examples provided in this thread there were warnings that were excused and ignored.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I read these kinds of threads, I always wonder about the time when you first started dating. Were these guys living in their parent’s basement or on their own? If on their own, was their apartment relatively clean and were their bills paid? Once married, did you make their life too easy and now they are in lazy mode? How did your situation start?

I’m confused by your confusion. They mask. All crappy partners “mask.” Alcoholics, addicts, rage-aholics, sex addicts, and perennial losers. They keep it together for as long as they need to and once they feel comfortable, the real them comes out.

No one can “mask” being a loser. That would require high sociopathic intelligence and willful deception. If he’s a failure to launch bum, he is almost certainly not that smart or sophisticated.

The whole thing about failure to launch is it is immediately visible, ie. still living in mom’s basement, holding down menial jobs etc. (NOT being a GS 14, wth?)

All the failure to launch types I know failed to launch because they never had to. Either extremely wealthy or enabled by parents who could support them. They are smart, well-read, well-traveled, well-educated, own homes and usually work at something in a casual way that doesn't bring in much money.
I should know, since I'm one of them.

Good for you.

All the FTL 20-50 yos we know have unmanaged adhd or aspergers. Many of their parents do as well so they can’t figure it out.

Right now one was gifted a bunch of rental properties because he can’t hold down a job without messing up or saying/doing someone foolish.

Maybe it just sticks out more because these FTL DHs and [someone you know's] son are men.

How many women have well paid husbands--have a kid or more--then never go back to work. Is it because they are "better at being a SAHM" than working at regular jobs? DWs live in homes paid for by someone else, in this case their husband instead of wealthy parents. They "just volunteer" and do other non-regular jobs. Or have hobbies. Or hang out in Europe. When the shoe is on the other foot, it's not a FTL wife, is it? Just the males. Got it.

Didn’t catch who was parenting and raising the kids, managing the schedules / health/ ECs, maintaining the house, managing the staff and repair vendors, and planning the future trips and goals whilst the rich husband works all day and then night on his phone.

DP. I don't think this was the dig you read this to be. There are tons of SAHM who manage their homes and their family's lives beautifully. SAHMs are like teachers. When they are good, they are great! But when they aren't...watch out.

I agree with the PP's premise: FTL husbands often become low-performing serial entrepreneurs. FTL wives often become low-performing SAHMs.

Like a PP, I think this applies to a few women in my family. Families really needed their income, but the wives made it clear they wanted to stay home. Except their SAHM skills weren't all that great - houses were dirty, junk food for meals, rare involvement at their kids' school, kids often failing classes. In hindsight, I dismissed some of these SAHMs as simply lazy. And that may have been part of it, but I also suspect many of the deeper issues cited here - spoiled/entitled, historically propped up by family, anxiety, ADHD, autism/ASD. They were effectively using SAHM status to avoid the real world. My extended family is poor and it would totally make sense that mental health issues went undiagnosed. Most of these marriages ultimately crumbled.

I suspect an acquaintance is in this position. Married <3 years, wife has quit her job twice. Currently pregnant and looking for jobs. I doubt she goes back, and I doubt she'll be the June Cleaver SAHM either based on what I know of her. I still wish them the best.

I still don’t understand who is running the household, making the decisions, and raising the kids? Neither the husband nor the sAHW? And certainly not them together as a team.

Sounds like they’re both mentally disordered then.
And their house is chaos and their kids are neglected, left to their own devices.

NP. Usually the husband in this situation is doing his best to run the household, make decisions, and raise the kids with little help from the wife while also working a full time job. One of my family members married a woman like this and they had three kids in quick succession. His wife could not manage basic caregiving and housework and was a compulsive spender. Things did not improve once the youngest was in school either. After they divorced, she immediately moved in with a new boyfriend because she can't manage running a household by herself. It's very sad for their kids although they do have a more stable home life when they are with the other parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I read these kinds of threads, I always wonder about the time when you first started dating. Were these guys living in their parent’s basement or on their own? If on their own, was their apartment relatively clean and were their bills paid? Once married, did you make their life too easy and now they are in lazy mode? How did your situation start?

I’m confused by your confusion. They mask. All crappy partners “mask.” Alcoholics, addicts, rage-aholics, sex addicts, and perennial losers. They keep it together for as long as they need to and once they feel comfortable, the real them comes out.

No one can “mask” being a loser. That would require high sociopathic intelligence and willful deception. If he’s a failure to launch bum, he is almost certainly not that smart or sophisticated.

The whole thing about failure to launch is it is immediately visible, ie. still living in mom’s basement, holding down menial jobs etc. (NOT being a GS 14, wth?)

All the failure to launch types I know failed to launch because they never had to. Either extremely wealthy or enabled by parents who could support them. They are smart, well-read, well-traveled, well-educated, own homes and usually work at something in a casual way that doesn't bring in much money.
I should know, since I'm one of them.

Good for you.

All the FTL 20-50 yos we know have unmanaged adhd or aspergers. Many of their parents do as well so they can’t figure it out.

Right now one was gifted a bunch of rental properties because he can’t hold down a job without messing up or saying/doing someone foolish.

Maybe it just sticks out more because these FTL DHs and [someone you know's] son are men.

How many women have well paid husbands--have a kid or more--then never go back to work. Is it because they are "better at being a SAHM" than working at regular jobs? DWs live in homes paid for by someone else, in this case their husband instead of wealthy parents. They "just volunteer" and do other non-regular jobs. Or have hobbies. Or hang out in Europe. When the shoe is on the other foot, it's not a FTL wife, is it? Just the males. Got it.

Didn’t catch who was parenting and raising the kids, managing the schedules / health/ ECs, maintaining the house, managing the staff and repair vendors, and planning the future trips and goals whilst the rich husband works all day and then night on his phone.

DP. I don't think this was the dig you read this to be. There are tons of SAHM who manage their homes and their family's lives beautifully. SAHMs are like teachers. When they are good, they are great! But when they aren't...watch out.

I agree with the PP's premise: FTL husbands often become low-performing serial entrepreneurs. FTL wives often become low-performing SAHMs.

Like a PP, I think this applies to a few women in my family. Families really needed their income, but the wives made it clear they wanted to stay home. Except their SAHM skills weren't all that great - houses were dirty, junk food for meals, rare involvement at their kids' school, kids often failing classes. In hindsight, I dismissed some of these SAHMs as simply lazy. And that may have been part of it, but I also suspect many of the deeper issues cited here - spoiled/entitled, historically propped up by family, anxiety, ADHD, autism/ASD. They were effectively using SAHM status to avoid the real world. My extended family is poor and it would totally make sense that mental health issues went undiagnosed. Most of these marriages ultimately crumbled.

I suspect an acquaintance is in this position. Married <3 years, wife has quit her job twice. Currently pregnant and looking for jobs. I doubt she goes back, and I doubt she'll be the June Cleaver SAHM either based on what I know of her. I still wish them the best.

I still don’t understand who is running the household, making the decisions, and raising the kids? Neither the husband nor the sAHW? And certainly not them together as a team.

Sounds like they’re both mentally disordered then.
And their house is chaos and their kids are neglected, left to their own devices.

Based on my experience with my working class extended family: overworked husband for sure, unfairly high reliance on grandma for childcare/housekeeping, brothers for money. (When the husband eventually leaves, the brothers become de facto husbands.) There's almost always a deeply parentified oldest child who is the primary caretaker for other siblings because these women tend to have many children in quick succession (I think to justify staying at home). There's also just a lot of neglect and disrepair: house doesn't get painted, car AC doesn't get fixed. Speedy repairs are an UMC thing.

Based on my upper middle class / wealthy peers today: heavy financial reliance on the husband and family of origin, lots of talk about their "amazing" nanny who basically works 65 hours a week taking care of the kids and home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I read these kinds of threads, I always wonder about the time when you first started dating. Were these guys living in their parent’s basement or on their own? If on their own, was their apartment relatively clean and were their bills paid? Once married, did you make their life too easy and now they are in lazy mode? How did your situation start?

I’m confused by your confusion. They mask. All crappy partners “mask.” Alcoholics, addicts, rage-aholics, sex addicts, and perennial losers. They keep it together for as long as they need to and once they feel comfortable, the real them comes out.

No one can “mask” being a loser. That would require high sociopathic intelligence and willful deception. If he’s a failure to launch bum, he is almost certainly not that smart or sophisticated.

The whole thing about failure to launch is it is immediately visible, ie. still living in mom’s basement, holding down menial jobs etc. (NOT being a GS 14, wth?)

All the failure to launch types I know failed to launch because they never had to. Either extremely wealthy or enabled by parents who could support them. They are smart, well-read, well-traveled, well-educated, own homes and usually work at something in a casual way that doesn't bring in much money.
I should know, since I'm one of them.

Good for you.

All the FTL 20-50 yos we know have unmanaged adhd or aspergers. Many of their parents do as well so they can’t figure it out.

Right now one was gifted a bunch of rental properties because he can’t hold down a job without messing up or saying/doing someone foolish.

Maybe it just sticks out more because these FTL DHs and [someone you know's] son are men.

How many women have well paid husbands--have a kid or more--then never go back to work. Is it because they are "better at being a SAHM" than working at regular jobs? DWs live in homes paid for by someone else, in this case their husband instead of wealthy parents. They "just volunteer" and do other non-regular jobs. Or have hobbies. Or hang out in Europe. When the shoe is on the other foot, it's not a FTL wife, is it? Just the males. Got it.

Didn’t catch who was parenting and raising the kids, managing the schedules / health/ ECs, maintaining the house, managing the staff and repair vendors, and planning the future trips and goals whilst the rich husband works all day and then night on his phone.

DP. I don't think this was the dig you read this to be. There are tons of SAHM who manage their homes and their family's lives beautifully. SAHMs are like teachers. When they are good, they are great! But when they aren't...watch out.

I agree with the PP's premise: FTL husbands often become low-performing serial entrepreneurs. FTL wives often become low-performing SAHMs.

Like a PP, I think this applies to a few women in my family. Families really needed their income, but the wives made it clear they wanted to stay home. Except their SAHM skills weren't all that great - houses were dirty, junk food for meals, rare involvement at their kids' school, kids often failing classes. In hindsight, I dismissed some of these SAHMs as simply lazy. And that may have been part of it, but I also suspect many of the deeper issues cited here - spoiled/entitled, historically propped up by family, anxiety, ADHD, autism/ASD. They were effectively using SAHM status to avoid the real world. My extended family is poor and it would totally make sense that mental health issues went undiagnosed. Most of these marriages ultimately crumbled.

I suspect an acquaintance is in this position. Married <3 years, wife has quit her job twice. Currently pregnant and looking for jobs. I doubt she goes back, and I doubt she'll be the June Cleaver SAHM either based on what I know of her. I still wish them the best.

I still don’t understand who is running the household, making the decisions, and raising the kids? Neither the husband nor the sAHW? And certainly not them together as a team.

Sounds like they’re both mentally disordered then.
And their house is chaos and their kids are neglected, left to their own devices.

NP. Usually the husband in this situation is doing his best to run the household, make decisions, and raise the kids with little help from the wife while also working a full time job. One of my family members married a woman like this and they had three kids in quick succession. His wife could not manage basic caregiving and housework and was a compulsive spender. Things did not improve once the youngest was in school either. After they divorced, she immediately moved in with a new boyfriend because she can't manage running a household by herself. It's very sad for their kids although they do have a more stable home life when they are with the other parent.

Hmm. I think my brothers wife is like this, she has adhd and can only operate in spurts.
She also claims she has to go ot with the girls a lot and take girls trips; she seems to need the social validation.
That's tough on the husband who works FT in a at job and has four kids. He gets run down and colds a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I read these kinds of threads, I always wonder about the time when you first started dating. Were these guys living in their parent’s basement or on their own? If on their own, was their apartment relatively clean and were their bills paid? Once married, did you make their life too easy and now they are in lazy mode? How did your situation start?

I’m confused by your confusion. They mask. All crappy partners “mask.” Alcoholics, addicts, rage-aholics, sex addicts, and perennial losers. They keep it together for as long as they need to and once they feel comfortable, the real them comes out.

No one can “mask” being a loser. That would require high sociopathic intelligence and willful deception. If he’s a failure to launch bum, he is almost certainly not that smart or sophisticated.

The whole thing about failure to launch is it is immediately visible, ie. still living in mom’s basement, holding down menial jobs etc. (NOT being a GS 14, wth?)

All the failure to launch types I know failed to launch because they never had to. Either extremely wealthy or enabled by parents who could support them. They are smart, well-read, well-traveled, well-educated, own homes and usually work at something in a casual way that doesn't bring in much money.
I should know, since I'm one of them.

Good for you.

All the FTL 20-50 yos we know have unmanaged adhd or aspergers. Many of their parents do as well so they can’t figure it out.

Right now one was gifted a bunch of rental properties because he can’t hold down a job without messing up or saying/doing someone foolish.

Maybe it just sticks out more because these FTL DHs and [someone you know's] son are men.

How many women have well paid husbands--have a kid or more--then never go back to work. Is it because they are "better at being a SAHM" than working at regular jobs? DWs live in homes paid for by someone else, in this case their husband instead of wealthy parents. They "just volunteer" and do other non-regular jobs. Or have hobbies. Or hang out in Europe. When the shoe is on the other foot, it's not a FTL wife, is it? Just the males. Got it.

Didn’t catch who was parenting and raising the kids, managing the schedules / health/ ECs, maintaining the house, managing the staff and repair vendors, and planning the future trips and goals whilst the rich husband works all day and then night on his phone.

DP. I don't think this was the dig you read this to be. There are tons of SAHM who manage their homes and their family's lives beautifully. SAHMs are like teachers. When they are good, they are great! But when they aren't...watch out.

I agree with the PP's premise: FTL husbands often become low-performing serial entrepreneurs. FTL wives often become low-performing SAHMs.

Like a PP, I think this applies to a few women in my family. Families really needed their income, but the wives made it clear they wanted to stay home. Except their SAHM skills weren't all that great - houses were dirty, junk food for meals, rare involvement at their kids' school, kids often failing classes. In hindsight, I dismissed some of these SAHMs as simply lazy. And that may have been part of it, but I also suspect many of the deeper issues cited here - spoiled/entitled, historically propped up by family, anxiety, ADHD, autism/ASD. They were effectively using SAHM status to avoid the real world. My extended family is poor and it would totally make sense that mental health issues went undiagnosed. Most of these marriages ultimately crumbled.

I suspect an acquaintance is in this position. Married <3 years, wife has quit her job twice. Currently pregnant and looking for jobs. I doubt she goes back, and I doubt she'll be the June Cleaver SAHM either based on what I know of her. I still wish them the best.

I still don’t understand who is running the household, making the decisions, and raising the kids? Neither the husband nor the sAHW? And certainly not them together as a team.

Sounds like they’re both mentally disordered then.
And their house is chaos and their kids are neglected, left to their own devices.

Based on my experience with my working class extended family: overworked husband for sure, unfairly high reliance on grandma for childcare/housekeeping, brothers for money. (When the husband eventually leaves, the brothers become de facto husbands.) There's almost always a deeply parentified oldest child who is the primary caretaker for other siblings because these women tend to have many children in quick succession (I think to justify staying at home). There's also just a lot of neglect and disrepair: house doesn't get painted, car AC doesn't get fixed. Speedy repairs are an UMC thing.

Based on my upper middle class / wealthy peers today: heavy financial reliance on the husband and family of origin, lots of talk about their "amazing" nanny who basically works 65 hours a week taking care of the kids and home.

Agree!

Can’t stand that home maintenance neglect thing. We just bought a house and knocked off $200k post inspection report things were such a mess. On a big beautiful (seemingly) house!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:'OP, how many times were you warned f red flags by family and friends? How many times did you get angry and ignore your family and friends? Let me guess, you cried to your family and friends when things were really awful, took their help and $$, but stayed with dh. If you look back, I bet you will see how you discarded the advice of those who really cared for you'

not op but for me the answer was never?

i love how many people in a relationships board are like 'you should have seen this coming'. Genuinely really curious - WHY be on this board? I guess your marriage is perfect and you only have interest in the people who are not yet married and trying to work out if they should GET married? Also anyone on here saying 'you should have seen this coming' is not the most awesome person and i am guessing has issues of their own they need to work on. [/quote

I"m on this board because I am really trying to understand. I am a family member who has been warning my cousin for 2 decades. I am really trying to understand why on earth you would be so dismissive.

also, my relationship is quite strong so I am trying to offer other perspectives

I"m on this board because I am really trying to understand. I am a family member who has been warning my cousin for 2 decades. I am really trying to understand why on earth you would be so dismissive.

also, my relationship is quite strong so I am trying to offer other perspectives

also, it is a shame that noone warned you. that is on them as well. Maybe they did and you weren't ready to hear it?

Pp - you have no idea of people’s circumstances or what their relationship was like before they got married or who warmed them about what and why and who didn’t warn them.

Unless your dh is making high six to low seven figures then I might ask ‘what on earth possessed you to settle’. If he does then I assume you were very strategic in a way that is highly difficult to emulate for most people

[Anonymous]

I’m curious for those who are on this thread saying why did you marry x person:
A. If your marriage is great why on earth are you in this sub and
B. If it isn’t then why did YOU ignore red flags.

It’s one the most fundamentally unhelpful comments possible to ask someone why they didn’t do something differently. Why does any human make imperfect decisions? And anyone who thinks their marriage is perfect - it’s bizarre to spend your time on the dcum relationships board. Why? Go enjoy your life if you aren’t struggling and don’t need advice. Don’t ghoulishly stalk people who are seeking advice and troll them. Jfc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I"m on this board because I am really trying to understand. I am a family member who has been warning my cousin for 2 decades. I am really trying to understand why on earth you would be so dismissive.

also, my relationship is quite strong so I am trying to offer other perspectives

also, it is a shame that noone warned you. that is on them as well. Maybe they did and you weren't ready to hear it?

DP. Something tells me you often offer unsolicited advice and/or just generally lack compassion with your family. You can deliver your opinion without being nasty.

I avoided a FTL husband and am damn proud of it. I do think I was super thoughtful about my husband's traits and made sure I got someone as driven and ambitious as I am. But I also underestimated some issues in him, as I'm sure he feels he underestimated some issues in me. And I've had friendships fail because I wasn't honest with myself about who I was/who they were, etc.

I'm humble enough to know I'm not perfect. I'm personally here to learn.

Of course I don't deliver my unsolicited (yet caring) advice in a nasty tone. what you hear is just exasperation because their lives are pretty much falling apart. Tone policing ain't going to work when your kids are left to their own devices and the home is sold in auction

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I read these kinds of threads, I always wonder about the time when you first started dating. Were these guys living in their parent’s basement or on their own? If on their own, was their apartment relatively clean and were their bills paid? Once married, did you make their life too easy and now they are in lazy mode? How did your situation start?

I’m confused by your confusion. They mask. All crappy partners “mask.” Alcoholics, addicts, rage-aholics, sex addicts, and perennial losers. They keep it together for as long as they need to and once they feel comfortable, the real them comes out.

No one can “mask” being a loser. That would require high sociopathic intelligence and willful deception. If he’s a failure to launch bum, he is almost certainly not that smart or sophisticated.

The whole thing about failure to launch is it is immediately visible, ie. still living in mom’s basement, holding down menial jobs etc. (NOT being a GS 14, wth?)

All the failure to launch types I know failed to launch because they never had to. Either extremely wealthy or enabled by parents who could support them. They are smart, well-read, well-traveled, well-educated, own homes and usually work at something in a casual way that doesn't bring in much money.
I should know, since I'm one of them.

Good for you.

All the FTL 20-50 yos we know have unmanaged adhd or aspergers. Many of their parents do as well so they can’t figure it out.

Right now one was gifted a bunch of rental properties because he can’t hold down a job without messing up or saying/doing someone foolish.

Maybe it just sticks out more because these FTL DHs and [someone you know's] son are men.

How many women have well paid husbands--have a kid or more--then never go back to work. Is it because they are "better at being a SAHM" than working at regular jobs? DWs live in homes paid for by someone else, in this case their husband instead of wealthy parents. They "just volunteer" and do other non-regular jobs. Or have hobbies. Or hang out in Europe. When the shoe is on the other foot, it's not a FTL wife, is it? Just the males. Got it.

Didn’t catch who was parenting and raising the kids, managing the schedules / health/ ECs, maintaining the house, managing the staff and repair vendors, and planning the future trips and goals whilst the rich husband works all day and then night on his phone.

DP. I don't think this was the dig you read this to be. There are tons of SAHM who manage their homes and their family's lives beautifully. SAHMs are like teachers. When they are good, they are great! But when they aren't...watch out.

I agree with the PP's premise: FTL husbands often become low-performing serial entrepreneurs. FTL wives often become low-performing SAHMs.

Like a PP, I think this applies to a few women in my family. Families really needed their income, but the wives made it clear they wanted to stay home. Except their SAHM skills weren't all that great - houses were dirty, junk food for meals, rare involvement at their kids' school, kids often failing classes. In hindsight, I dismissed some of these SAHMs as simply lazy. And that may have been part of it, but I also suspect many of the deeper issues cited here - spoiled/entitled, historically propped up by family, anxiety, ADHD, autism/ASD. They were effectively using SAHM status to avoid the real world. My extended family is poor and it would totally make sense that mental health issues went undiagnosed. Most of these marriages ultimately crumbled.

I suspect an acquaintance is in this position. Married <3 years, wife has quit her job twice. Currently pregnant and looking for jobs. I doubt she goes back, and I doubt she'll be the June Cleaver SAHM either based on what I know of her. I still wish them the best.

I still don’t understand who is running the household, making the decisions, and raising the kids? Neither the husband nor the sAHW? And certainly not them together as a team.

Sounds like they’re both mentally disordered then.
And their house is chaos and their kids are neglected, left to their own devices.

Based on my experience with my working class extended family: overworked husband for sure, unfairly high reliance on grandma for childcare/housekeeping, brothers for money. (When the husband eventually leaves, the brothers become de facto husbands.) There's almost always a deeply parentified oldest child who is the primary caretaker for other siblings because these women tend to have many children in quick succession (I think to justify staying at home). There's also just a lot of neglect and disrepair: house doesn't get painted, car AC doesn't get fixed. Speedy repairs are an UMC thing.

Based on my upper middle class / wealthy peers today: heavy financial reliance on the husband and family of origin, lots of talk about their "amazing" nanny who basically works 65 hours a week taking care of the kids and home.

This is it to a tee! SAHM wants to be a hero but is barely taking care of the kids once they are in 2nd grade or so. Talks about how hard it is to have kids incessantly on social media while trying to be an influencer. Feeds off of comments that also complain about parenthood. Over-reliance on grandparents and parentified child. Running their household becomes an extended family group project. Complains about not having any friends for 2 decades but does not try to change a damn thing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I read these kinds of threads, I always wonder about the time when you first started dating. Were these guys living in their parent’s basement or on their own? If on their own, was their apartment relatively clean and were their bills paid? Once married, did you make their life too easy and now they are in lazy mode? How did your situation start?

I’m confused by your confusion. They mask. All crappy partners “mask.” Alcoholics, addicts, rage-aholics, sex addicts, and perennial losers. They keep it together for as long as they need to and once they feel comfortable, the real them comes out.

No one can “mask” being a loser. That would require high sociopathic intelligence and willful deception. If he’s a failure to launch bum, he is almost certainly not that smart or sophisticated.

The whole thing about failure to launch is it is immediately visible, ie. still living in mom’s basement, holding down menial jobs etc. (NOT being a GS 14, wth?)

All the failure to launch types I know failed to launch because they never had to. Either extremely wealthy or enabled by parents who could support them. They are smart, well-read, well-traveled, well-educated, own homes and usually work at something in a casual way that doesn't bring in much money.
I should know, since I'm one of them.

Good for you.

All the FTL 20-50 yos we know have unmanaged adhd or aspergers. Many of their parents do as well so they can’t figure it out.

Right now one was gifted a bunch of rental properties because he can’t hold down a job without messing up or saying/doing someone foolish.

Maybe it just sticks out more because these FTL DHs and [someone you know's] son are men.

How many women have well paid husbands--have a kid or more--then never go back to work. Is it because they are "better at being a SAHM" than working at regular jobs? DWs live in homes paid for by someone else, in this case their husband instead of wealthy parents. They "just volunteer" and do other non-regular jobs. Or have hobbies. Or hang out in Europe. When the shoe is on the other foot, it's not a FTL wife, is it? Just the males. Got it.

Didn’t catch who was parenting and raising the kids, managing the schedules / health/ ECs, maintaining the house, managing the staff and repair vendors, and planning the future trips and goals whilst the rich husband works all day and then night on his phone.

DP. I don't think this was the dig you read this to be. There are tons of SAHM who manage their homes and their family's lives beautifully. SAHMs are like teachers. When they are good, they are great! But when they aren't...watch out.

I agree with the PP's premise: FTL husbands often become low-performing serial entrepreneurs. FTL wives often become low-performing SAHMs.

Like a PP, I think this applies to a few women in my family. Families really needed their income, but the wives made it clear they wanted to stay home. Except their SAHM skills weren't all that great - houses were dirty, junk food for meals, rare involvement at their kids' school, kids often failing classes. In hindsight, I dismissed some of these SAHMs as simply lazy. And that may have been part of it, but I also suspect many of the deeper issues cited here - spoiled/entitled, historically propped up by family, anxiety, ADHD, autism/ASD. They were effectively using SAHM status to avoid the real world. My extended family is poor and it would totally make sense that mental health issues went undiagnosed. Most of these marriages ultimately crumbled.

I suspect an acquaintance is in this position. Married <3 years, wife has quit her job twice. Currently pregnant and looking for jobs. I doubt she goes back, and I doubt she'll be the June Cleaver SAHM either based on what I know of her. I still wish them the best.

I still don’t understand who is running the household, making the decisions, and raising the kids? Neither the husband nor the sAHW? And certainly not them together as a team.

Sounds like they’re both mentally disordered then.
And their house is chaos and their kids are neglected, left to their own devices.

NP. Usually the husband in this situation is doing his best to run the household, make decisions, and raise the kids with little help from the wife while also working a full time job. One of my family members married a woman like this and they had three kids in quick succession. His wife could not manage basic caregiving and housework and was a compulsive spender. Things did not improve once the youngest was in school either. After they divorced, she immediately moved in with a new boyfriend because she can't manage running a household by herself. It's very sad for their kids although they do have a more stable home life when they are with the other parent.

He should have gotten a vasectomy after the first. Men are also responsible for their family size.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I read these kinds of threads, I always wonder about the time when you first started dating. Were these guys living in their parent’s basement or on their own? If on their own, was their apartment relatively clean and were their bills paid? Once married, did you make their life too easy and now they are in lazy mode? How did your situation start?

I’m confused by your confusion. They mask. All crappy partners “mask.” Alcoholics, addicts, rage-aholics, sex addicts, and perennial losers. They keep it together for as long as they need to and once they feel comfortable, the real them comes out.

No one can “mask” being a loser. That would require high sociopathic intelligence and willful deception. If he’s a failure to launch bum, he is almost certainly not that smart or sophisticated.

The whole thing about failure to launch is it is immediately visible, ie. still living in mom’s basement, holding down menial jobs etc. (NOT being a GS 14, wth?)

All the failure to launch types I know failed to launch because they never had to. Either extremely wealthy or enabled by parents who could support them. They are smart, well-read, well-traveled, well-educated, own homes and usually work at something in a casual way that doesn't bring in much money.
I should know, since I'm one of them.

Good for you.

All the FTL 20-50 yos we know have unmanaged adhd or aspergers. Many of their parents do as well so they can’t figure it out.

Right now one was gifted a bunch of rental properties because he can’t hold down a job without messing up or saying/doing someone foolish.

Maybe it just sticks out more because these FTL DHs and [someone you know's] son are men.

How many women have well paid husbands--have a kid or more--then never go back to work. Is it because they are "better at being a SAHM" than working at regular jobs? DWs live in homes paid for by someone else, in this case their husband instead of wealthy parents. They "just volunteer" and do other non-regular jobs. Or have hobbies. Or hang out in Europe. When the shoe is on the other foot, it's not a FTL wife, is it? Just the males. Got it.

Didn’t catch who was parenting and raising the kids, managing the schedules / health/ ECs, maintaining the house, managing the staff and repair vendors, and planning the future trips and goals whilst the rich husband works all day and then night on his phone.

DP. I don't think this was the dig you read this to be. There are tons of SAHM who manage their homes and their family's lives beautifully. SAHMs are like teachers. When they are good, they are great! But when they aren't...watch out.

I agree with the PP's premise: FTL husbands often become low-performing serial entrepreneurs. FTL wives often become low-performing SAHMs.

Like a PP, I think this applies to a few women in my family. Families really needed their income, but the wives made it clear they wanted to stay home. Except their SAHM skills weren't all that great - houses were dirty, junk food for meals, rare involvement at their kids' school, kids often failing classes. In hindsight, I dismissed some of these SAHMs as simply lazy. And that may have been part of it, but I also suspect many of the deeper issues cited here - spoiled/entitled, historically propped up by family, anxiety, ADHD, autism/ASD. They were effectively using SAHM status to avoid the real world. My extended family is poor and it would totally make sense that mental health issues went undiagnosed. Most of these marriages ultimately crumbled.

I suspect an acquaintance is in this position. Married <3 years, wife has quit her job twice. Currently pregnant and looking for jobs. I doubt she goes back, and I doubt she'll be the June Cleaver SAHM either based on what I know of her. I still wish them the best.

I still don’t understand who is running the household, making the decisions, and raising the kids? Neither the husband nor the sAHW? And certainly not them together as a team.

Sounds like they’re both mentally disordered then.
And their house is chaos and their kids are neglected, left to their own devices.

Based on my experience with my working class extended family: overworked husband for sure, unfairly high reliance on grandma for childcare/housekeeping, brothers for money. (When the husband eventually leaves, the brothers become de facto husbands.) There's almost always a deeply parentified oldest child who is the primary caretaker for other siblings because these women tend to have many children in quick succession (I think to justify staying at home). There's also just a lot of neglect and disrepair: house doesn't get painted, car AC doesn't get fixed. Speedy repairs are an UMC thing.

Based on my upper middle class / wealthy peers today: heavy financial reliance on the husband and family of origin, lots of talk about their "amazing" nanny who basically works 65 hours a week taking care of the kids and home.

Agree!

Can’t stand that home maintenance neglect thing. We just bought a house and knocked off $200k post inspection report things were such a mess. On a big beautiful (seemingly) house!

It's always that way unless you buy a new build. That's why you need a thorough inspection.

[Anonymous]

Just live with the guy before marriage and all the traits of a FTL will emerge.