Coalition4TJ’s request to block TJ admissions process DENIED 6-3 by Supreme Court

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's funny (and sad) how Asians are mad at African Americans while the number of white students getting in hasn't been impacted.

Wrong. we are mad at the whites who just used their favorite divide and rule playbook...

Again

Let's not forget that more whites were admitted for the class of 2025. If FCPS lacked opposition to their original merit-lottery solution, the white population would have a plurality at TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's funny (and sad) how Asians are mad at African Americans while the number of white students getting in hasn't been impacted.

Wrong. we are mad at the whites who just used their favorite divide and rule playbook...

Again

Let's not forget that more whites were admitted for the class of 2025. If FCPS lacked opposition to their original merit-lottery solution, the white population would have a plurality at TJ.

This would hardly be a shocking outcome. Whites are still the largest population group in FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's funny (and sad) how Asians are mad at African Americans while the number of white students getting in hasn't been impacted.

I think you are interpreting this wrong. I am an asian and I am not mad african americans or whites. In fact, I am happy that more african americans are able to get into TJ. What I am mad at is the process fcps implemented with out thinking through much and in fact going with not so explicit target of cutting down asian students from specific feeder schools without saying race anywhere, but old critiera that was taken out or weightage/points given to new criteria so undermine advantages for specific groups of kids. In the end, they came up with a process that could easily eliminate more deserved students vs others as the new process makes it difficult to identify talent. I would rather be so much happier if they just implemented a lottery for all the qualified candidates as it will be totally unbiased and fair.

it seems more likely because the spots for others have to come from somewhere and with Asians having 70%+ of all spots they were impacted but are still the most well-represented group...

It’s not that I don’t get it. Of course the numbers have to come from somewhere. What I am basically pointing at is the new admission process makes it difficult to identify the STEM talent especially when the writing skills (essay and portrait sheet) gets 2X weightage as compared to entire GPA for all courses put together and on top the unweighted GPA discourages taking advanced courses.

You don’t believe me when I say that my kid probably has equal chances of getting in his feeder school compared to some of his friends who are taking Algebra 2 and even pre-cal in 8th grade. Under the older system with teacher input he would have very little chance. But I still think its unfair for my kid to get selected over his much smarter friends (according my kid), if it actually happens.

All of the kids have to take Honors or AAP Science and Math and at least one other class as an honors class. So their overall GPA included a minimum of three honors classes. I am not sure if electives even have an honors option.

How do you identify STEM talent in 8th grade without including the extra curricular activities? Activities that not every kid has access to because of lack of knowledge, parents with time to take them to and from, or the money to afford the activity. Is it fair that I can afford to send my kid to RSM and robotics club while a kid from a lower SES family is needed at home to watch his/her siblings and cannot afford either activity? That kid could be interested in STEM but never got the chance to explore it to figure that out because they were not exposed while my kid got to take art classes, coding classes, robotics, rec sports, and other things in order to figure out what he liked. Requiring that kids have a solid academic background to attend TJ allows kids who are smart and have STEM skills to attend a school that will push them and expose them to activities and courses that they may not have access to.

I know kids who passed all the tests and had teacher recommendations and were accepted to TJ who went to college and became English Teachers. They had all the STEM credentials a kid needed but could careless about STEM. They went to TJ because their parents wanted them to go there because it was the best and they did great. But they were not STEM kids.

I do think the bar should be raised and that kids should need to have Geometry and Algebra 1 in MS to apply, I don't think that is unreasonable. I think they should keep the guaranteed seats from each MS school. I think you should be judged against the students at the MS school you choose to attend. You have a choice to attend a Center school or not, if you choose the Center school you are accepting the fact that there will be more competition for those seats. I am fine with bringing back letters of recommendation. But TJ should look like the County. There are plenty of smart, motivated kids at lower SES MS who will do well there and they should have a seat at the school. The old system was structured in a way that made that incredibly hard and favored higher SES families. There is nothing wrong with balancing that out and there is nothing wrong with giving kids who have had far fewer opportunities a chance to discover STEM.

[Anonymous]

Ha ha ha the Trumpkin heroes joined the libs!

[Anonymous]

I do think the bar should be raised and that kids should need to have Geometry and Algebra 1 in MS to apply, I don't think that is unreasonable.

You mean at least Geometry in 8th?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I do think the bar should be raised and that kids should need to have Geometry and Algebra 1 in MS to apply, I don't think that is unreasonable.

You mean at least Geometry in 8th?

Yes. I think it is fair to ask for a higher level of math at TJ, given the nature of the school. I don't think that taking Algebra 2 or other classes is reasonable. The kids who have those classes are more likely families that have done some type of supplementation and who either knew how to get their kid into Algebra 1 in 6th grade, which is not easy, or whose kids took Geometry in the summer which is less doable for Lower SES families were kids might need to work or watch siblings. The kids who have higher math when they start TJ will be able to move into different math classes more quickly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's funny (and sad) how Asians are mad at African Americans while the number of white students getting in hasn't been impacted.

Wrong. we are mad at the whites who just used their favorite divide and rule playbook...

Again

Let's not forget that more whites were admitted for the class of 2025. If FCPS lacked opposition to their original merit-lottery solution, the white population would have a plurality at TJ.

This would hardly be a shocking outcome. Whites are still the largest population group in FCPS.

Exactly. Hence the support for removing entrance test from white progressives Not because of any other reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I do think the bar should be raised and that kids should need to have Geometry and Algebra 1 in MS to apply, I don't think that is unreasonable.

You mean at least Geometry in 8th?

Yes. I think it is fair to ask for a higher level of math at TJ, given the nature of the school. I don't think that taking Algebra 2 or other classes is reasonable. The kids who have those classes are more likely families that have done some type of supplementation and who either knew how to get their kid into Algebra 1 in 6th grade, which is not easy, or whose kids took Geometry in the summer which is less doable for Lower SES families were kids might need to work or watch siblings. The kids who have higher math when they start TJ will be able to move into different math classes more quickly.

It’s this a good argument for continuing hybrid on line education in these low SES heavy middle schools? There shouldn’t be any hoops to jump for a child to have coursework thats just beyond their current ability to suitably stretch them. Give all 6th graders open access to pre recorded algebra 1 lectures in a study hall set up with a math teacher supervising. The other kids have their own assignments. That’s a far more flexible than the one size fits all rigid in person pathways that middle class parents can game by extra tutoring and summer classes. .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's funny (and sad) how Asians are mad at African Americans while the number of white students getting in hasn't been impacted.

I think you are interpreting this wrong. I am an asian and I am not mad african americans or whites. In fact, I am happy that more african americans are able to get into TJ. What I am mad at is the process fcps implemented with out thinking through much and in fact going with not so explicit target of cutting down asian students from specific feeder schools without saying race anywhere, but old critiera that was taken out or weightage/points given to new criteria so undermine advantages for specific groups of kids. In the end, they came up with a process that could easily eliminate more deserved students vs others as the new process makes it difficult to identify talent. I would rather be so much happier if they just implemented a lottery for all the qualified candidates as it will be totally unbiased and fair.

it seems more likely because the spots for others have to come from somewhere and with Asians having 70%+ of all spots they were impacted but are still the most well-represented group...

It’s not that I don’t get it. Of course the numbers have to come from somewhere. What I am basically pointing at is the new admission process makes it difficult to identify the STEM talent especially when the writing skills (essay and portrait sheet) gets 2X weightage as compared to entire GPA for all courses put together and on top the unweighted GPA discourages taking advanced courses.

You don’t believe me when I say that my kid probably has equal chances of getting in his feeder school compared to some of his friends who are taking Algebra 2 and even pre-cal in 8th grade. Under the older system with teacher input he would have very little chance. But I still think its unfair for my kid to get selected over his much smarter friends (according my kid), if it actually happens.

Actually the new process makes it easier to distinguish natural talent from prep

Achievement in education is a combination of natural talent and preparation. The two factors are inextricably intertwined. Even for someone like Terence Tao, who is undeniably naturally talented at analytical methods from a very young age, his achievements relied upon many many hours of preparation in reading math books.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I do think the bar should be raised and that kids should need to have Geometry and Algebra 1 in MS to apply, I don't think that is unreasonable.

You mean at least Geometry in 8th?

Yes. I think it is fair to ask for a higher level of math at TJ, given the nature of the school. I don't think that taking Algebra 2 or other classes is reasonable. The kids who have those classes are more likely families that have done some type of supplementation and who either knew how to get their kid into Algebra 1 in 6th grade, which is not easy, or whose kids took Geometry in the summer which is less doable for Lower SES families were kids might need to work or watch siblings. The kids who have higher math when they start TJ will be able to move into different math classes more quickly.

It’s this a good argument for continuing hybrid on line education in these low SES heavy middle schools? There shouldn’t be any hoops to jump for a child to have coursework thats just beyond their current ability to suitably stretch them. Give all 6th graders open access to pre recorded algebra 1 lectures in a study hall set up with a math teacher supervising. The other kids have their own assignments. That’s a far more flexible than the one size fits all rigid in person pathways that middle class parents can game by extra tutoring and summer classes. .

I am at a UMC ES and our school won't discuss the idea of DS taking Algebra 1 in 6th. There are some schools that are willing to allow that but the vast majority do not. And I don't think virtual learning is a good way to go for most kids, especially something like Algebra. We are not pushing because we don't like the idea of virtual learning for pretty much any class and we know that is the go to.

Kids who are that ahead in math are rewarded by taking more advanced math. If they enjoy math, and I believe that they do, then taking those classes is great. It does not need to be a bump for admission to TJ. I believe that a solid percentage of the kids accepted at TJ did have Algebra II under their belt, which is fine, but I don't think it should be an expectation. Or if it is considered for the 1.5% guaranteed seats at the MS that have classes for Algebra II, fine. Maybe let the different MSs determine their criteria for seating their guaranteed seats.

[Anonymous]

Virtual education is better than no education. Why should an able low SES kid who is competent in self study with virtual and advanced course work lose out on that opportunity and have a lesser CV than a more privileged kids who have tutors?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's funny (and sad) how Asians are mad at African Americans while the number of white students getting in hasn't been impacted.

I think you are interpreting this wrong. I am an asian and I am not mad african americans or whites. In fact, I am happy that more african americans are able to get into TJ. What I am mad at is the process fcps implemented with out thinking through much and in fact going with not so explicit target of cutting down asian students from specific feeder schools without saying race anywhere, but old critiera that was taken out or weightage/points given to new criteria so undermine advantages for specific groups of kids. In the end, they came up with a process that could easily eliminate more deserved students vs others as the new process makes it difficult to identify talent. I would rather be so much happier if they just implemented a lottery for all the qualified candidates as it will be totally unbiased and fair.

it seems more likely because the spots for others have to come from somewhere and with Asians having 70%+ of all spots they were impacted but are still the most well-represented group...

It’s not that I don’t get it. Of course the numbers have to come from somewhere. What I am basically pointing at is the new admission process makes it difficult to identify the STEM talent especially when the writing skills (essay and portrait sheet) gets 2X weightage as compared to entire GPA for all courses put together and on top the unweighted GPA discourages taking advanced courses.

You don’t believe me when I say that my kid probably has equal chances of getting in his feeder school compared to some of his friends who are taking Algebra 2 and even pre-cal in 8th grade. Under the older system with teacher input he would have very little chance. But I still think its unfair for my kid to get selected over his much smarter friends (according my kid), if it actually happens.

Actually the new process makes it easier to distinguish natural talent from prep

Achievement in education is a combination of natural talent and preparation. The two factors are inextricably intertwined. Even for someone like Terence Tao, who is undeniably naturally talented at analytical methods from a very young age, his achievements relied upon many many hours of preparation in reading math books.

Absolutely. Ask Laszlo Polgar (father of the Susan, Sofia and Judit) and Richard Williams (father of Venus and Serena). There is nothing without preparation and practice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finally some common sense.

Asian population in a public school was MASSIVELY overrepresented.

They can go back to India, or even Ashburn, and start their own schools.

Pretty sure this is a troll post from a status-quo supporter. Serious pro-reform advocates do not have the attitude indicated in the third line. That's racist garbage.

Please. He just said it out. Your actions speak way louder than words. Asians are making a massive mistake voting 70-80% Democrats which is now driven by self-serving progressives whose only currency is pandering their way to power. They just need to hold their noses if they must and vote Republican. And if they can't do that get some political power among the Democrats. They will be slaughtered otherwise.

The current rise in anti-Asian violence started with Trump and his white Supremacist attitude. But go ahead and vote republican because of TJ.

That's why holding the nose.

There is a lot of white supremacist attitude among democrats too. as proven by the TJ events. it is just masked better.

And it is not just TJ. Republicans or Democrats the lack of political representation among Asians makes them easy targets. This whole putting head down and doing the work is not enough.

Let me get this straight. I'm supposed to ignore the climate denial, misogyny, voter suppression,... of the insurrectionist Republican party, headed by Mr. China Virus himself, and vote for them anyway, because TJ?

Exactly. TJ is a distraction. And the fact that it's working is a scathing indictment.

That's what the GOP Is all about.

Oh this is beyond party! White Liberals and Conservatives are on the same side here. UMC opportunity hoarding! Pure and simple. Fighting to block AA students just like fighting integration!

[Anonymous]

ECs, Math level, and notable achievements should be considered when evaluating kids against other kids from the same school or any kids in high SES schools against other high SES schools. At a school like Longfellow or Carson, the privileged kid who is winning science olympiad medals, qualifying for AIME, and taking Pre-Calc is much more qualified for TJ than the equally privileged kids who are in Algebra I and haven't accomplished much of anything.

If FCPS keeps the 1.5% seat allocation and only looks at ECs etc. relative to the other kids in the same school, then the playing field should be pretty even.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's funny (and sad) how Asians are mad at African Americans while the number of white students getting in hasn't been impacted.

Wrong. we are mad at the whites who just used their favorite divide and rule playbook...

Again

Let's not forget that more whites were admitted for the class of 2025. If FCPS lacked opposition to their original merit-lottery solution, the white population would have a plurality at TJ.

That is completely false. It only would have been the case of white students had applied at the highest rate, when in reality over twice as many Asians apply as whites.

The debunked Coalition 4 TJ “study” on the Merit Lottery proposal assumed approximately 9000 applicants when putting together their models, meaning that every single eligible student in the catchment area would apply. That’s not something that’s ever going to come close to happening.