Anonymous wrote:Just you wait till the next elections.
Savor ‘victory’ till then. The progressives will be the Democrats’ Achilles Heel. TJ is but a skirmish in the bigger battle to ensure schools are focused on education not virtue signaling.
Youngkin should just go ahead and set up the "Regional Governing Board" consisting of reps from all the participating jurisdictions (which is how TJ should be governed) which he is able to do under the current statute and put the control in that body instead of the FCPS.
And FCPS should take back its school and make it local. I'm fine if there's no TJ.
Some would be bummed. It is aspirational but the majority would be better off without it since it takes up a lot of time and resources that would be better spend on everyone instead of a few wealthy kids who will do fine anywhere since their parents will see to it.
Unfortunately the progressives believe that all meritocracy is elitist and should be abandoned.
When there is a belief that equality of outcome trumps equality of opportunity, you are ringing the death knell of any meritocracy. And that does not auger well for the American Dream. But that is the New American Dream of our esteemed Progressives. If they can’t have it, nobody else can have it.
Why does one need to trump the other? Both matter. Or maybe put another way, almost every agrees with the idea of equality of opportunity on the face of it, but that alone is not enough. When you have sustained unequal outcomes for large chunks of the population over time then it's a pretty good indicator that what seems like equal opportunity on its face very probably has some underlying systemic bias or inequality and you probably need to think a layer deeper than "BuT tHeY aLl TaKe ThE sAmE tEsT!!!"
Exactly. As always, conservatives and those who champion their causes always major in defining the terms of the argument, and in this case, the attempt is to claim that academic merit can only be achieved through standardized exam scores or through performance in academic competitions.
Not the only way, but the best way. This is how the entire world does this - by a standardized test that everyone takes and then they are ranked against each other.
Don't know about all this but defining merit in terms of a test that many people simply buy seems to favor the wealthy and unscrupulous.
Hard to see how a less objective approach will be more scrupulous. It’s ripe with the potential for abuse and ultimately will be gamed even more by those who learn how to play the Oppression Olympics.
When we shell out $10K for TJ prep, we deserve those spots!
Just to be clear the Asian kids in these prep classes are only competing with other Asian kids. They don't need the prep to compete with others. Not because they are smarter but most non-Asians just don't care that much. Of course you know all that. That's why the focus was not to create a non-standard test but to just eliminiate it. Only way to win the game is to just remove the hoop. Diversity was also not the goal - because there were other ways to do that while keeping the test. It was just to divide and rule and some white parents getting their kids a 26% leg up.
....what in the world are you talking about? They're not competing with other Asian kids. It's not like the previous process was limited to Asian kids - they represented a little more than 50% of the application pool and that's all.
Creating a non-standardized test that isn't vetted by multiple outlets is extremely problematic for a public school. That's not an option because it is too easy to attack on legal grounds.
What other ways do you suggest for improving diversity while keeping the test? Racial quotas are expressly unconstitutional.
And where in the world do you get 26% from? Poor Asians benefited far more from the admissions changes than white, Black, or Hispanic students.
Have a test and add experience factors instead of removing the test altogether. Removing test altogether only helps white kids.
26% is how many more white kids got in without test.
prep classes or not, if there is a test asian kids will do well. which is why you guys removed the test. it is obvious and as per the remarks found in discovery. Asian kids went down 26% white kids went up 26%. that's what is the most galling thing. not blacks and hispanics getting more seats. all power to them.
Can you provide a citation for those numbers? What I read indicates your numbers are wrong. Black and Hispanic kids went up 2X-3X while Asian students went down a little but that was because they had made up 75% of all seats previously.
The data is available. Use a calculator. Asian kids went down 26% white kids went up 26%. the numbers are right however much you try to tirture them. As I said all power to black and hispanic kids. but the white parents just removed the test so that their delicate kids could get a leg up. shame.
So by your tortured interpretation of these numbers, Black population increased by 576% and Hispanic population increased by 343%. Sort of dwarfs that 26% number anyways.
The biggest lie that has been perpetuated by the Coalition grifters (who, by the way, have landed cushy jobs on the backs of YOUR manufactured grievance) is that white families were the biggest beneficiaries of admissions changes, when in fact the biggest beneficiaries have been low-income ASIAN families, whose population increased by over 600%!
So my numbers were right. The fact is Asians were targeted with a divide and rule campaign because white families can't compete.
Hopefully your kids inherited your spouse’s aptitude for math/critical thinking.
Weak response. You know I am right.
I know that only half of eligible white kids even bother to apply. So your narrative is fiction.
huh? wasn't my narrative. but yeah white kids didn't apply because they were not getting in anyway.
White kids weren’t the greatest beneficiaries and there wasn’t a white parent conspiracy.
Except that the TJ reforms were literally a conspiracy led by a rich White parent. There's hard evidence to back it, documented in court. Gawd I hate this "say whatever it takes to get people to believe you" nonsense.
....no there isn't. Who would that parent even be?
If the reforms were led by anyone, it was the TJ Alumni Action Group, who believe it or not, are overwhelmingly Asian in their leadership.
Yes there is! The reforms were led by Brabrand... everyone knows it, so please stop gaslighting.
Brabrand is the superintendent, and his actions were reactionary at most.
Yes, very much. Nevertheless, he was the rich White parent who was responsible for pushing through the reforms.
It's incredibly disingenuous to phrase it that way. He was acting in his capacity as superintendent - the fact that he's a parent (which, frankly, I didn't even know) is irrelevant to this particular conversation.
It's phrased that way to intentionally emphasize how BS the original false claim about lack of conspiracy was. Yes, he was acting in his capacity as superintendent, but while doing so, he was also illegally conspiring to reduce the number of Asians in TJ. Nixon was also acting in his capacity as President of the United States when he participated in a conspiracy. Yes it's relevant to the conversation, but I can see how you might prefer that it wasn't.
That comment made absolutely zero sense and followed no logical train of thought. It's the type of comment that makes me think that folks align themselves with C4TJ do so in order to give their kids an excuse when they don't get into TJ - because they're clearly not inheriting a grasp of data, logic, and argument from their parents.
As with most things that are white-supremacy-adjacent, C4TJ stems mostly from that awful combination of gigantic ego and massive insecurity.
what the heck are you guys arguing about. some fine fools on both sides.
Very true. Both the C4TJ and the TJAAG are full of people with inflated egos who have spent the last two years sucking all the oxygen out of FCPS by centering TJ to an unprecedented agree. It's like the other 200 schools in FCPS don't matter and deserve no attention.
The current School Board should be voted out in their entirety next year for getting sucked into the morass, but it's not like they should be replaced by the likes of Makya Little, Jorge Torrico, Asra Nomani or Harry Jackson. We're getting a brief reprieve from Asra for now, because she's been focusing most of her attention on the Johnny Depp trial for some odd reason, but no doubt she'll be back to obsessing about TJ in a few weeks.
Is the trial being covered on FoxNews? That’s probably why. She’s trying to get some airtime.
Anonymous wrote:Just you wait till the next elections.
Savor ‘victory’ till then. The progressives will be the Democrats’ Achilles Heel. TJ is but a skirmish in the bigger battle to ensure schools are focused on education not virtue signaling.
Youngkin should just go ahead and set up the "Regional Governing Board" consisting of reps from all the participating jurisdictions (which is how TJ should be governed) which he is able to do under the current statute and put the control in that body instead of the FCPS.
And FCPS should take back its school and make it local. I'm fine if there's no TJ.
Some would be bummed. It is aspirational but the majority would be better off without it since it takes up a lot of time and resources that would be better spend on everyone instead of a few wealthy kids who will do fine anywhere since their parents will see to it.
Unfortunately the progressives believe that all meritocracy is elitist and should be abandoned.
When there is a belief that equality of outcome trumps equality of opportunity, you are ringing the death knell of any meritocracy. And that does not auger well for the American Dream. But that is the New American Dream of our esteemed Progressives. If they can’t have it, nobody else can have it.
Why does one need to trump the other? Both matter. Or maybe put another way, almost every agrees with the idea of equality of opportunity on the face of it, but that alone is not enough. When you have sustained unequal outcomes for large chunks of the population over time then it's a pretty good indicator that what seems like equal opportunity on its face very probably has some underlying systemic bias or inequality and you probably need to think a layer deeper than "BuT tHeY aLl TaKe ThE sAmE tEsT!!!"
Exactly. As always, conservatives and those who champion their causes always major in defining the terms of the argument, and in this case, the attempt is to claim that academic merit can only be achieved through standardized exam scores or through performance in academic competitions.
Not the only way, but the best way. This is how the entire world does this - by a standardized test that everyone takes and then they are ranked against each other.
Don't know about all this but defining merit in terms of a test that many people simply buy seems to favor the wealthy and unscrupulous.
Hard to see how a less objective approach will be more scrupulous. It’s ripe with the potential for abuse and ultimately will be gamed even more by those who learn how to play the Oppression Olympics.
When we shell out $10K for TJ prep, we deserve those spots!
Just to be clear the Asian kids in these prep classes are only competing with other Asian kids. They don't need the prep to compete with others. Not because they are smarter but most non-Asians just don't care that much. Of course you know all that. That's why the focus was not to create a non-standard test but to just eliminiate it. Only way to win the game is to just remove the hoop. Diversity was also not the goal - because there were other ways to do that while keeping the test. It was just to divide and rule and some white parents getting their kids a 26% leg up.
....what in the world are you talking about? They're not competing with other Asian kids. It's not like the previous process was limited to Asian kids - they represented a little more than 50% of the application pool and that's all.
Creating a non-standardized test that isn't vetted by multiple outlets is extremely problematic for a public school. That's not an option because it is too easy to attack on legal grounds.
What other ways do you suggest for improving diversity while keeping the test? Racial quotas are expressly unconstitutional.
And where in the world do you get 26% from? Poor Asians benefited far more from the admissions changes than white, Black, or Hispanic students.
Have a test and add experience factors instead of removing the test altogether. Removing test altogether only helps white kids.
26% is how many more white kids got in without test.
prep classes or not, if there is a test asian kids will do well. which is why you guys removed the test. it is obvious and as per the remarks found in discovery. Asian kids went down 26% white kids went up 26%. that's what is the most galling thing. not blacks and hispanics getting more seats. all power to them.
Can you provide a citation for those numbers? What I read indicates your numbers are wrong. Black and Hispanic kids went up 2X-3X while Asian students went down a little but that was because they had made up 75% of all seats previously.
The data is available. Use a calculator. Asian kids went down 26% white kids went up 26%. the numbers are right however much you try to tirture them. As I said all power to black and hispanic kids. but the white parents just removed the test so that their delicate kids could get a leg up. shame.
So by your tortured interpretation of these numbers, Black population increased by 576% and Hispanic population increased by 343%. Sort of dwarfs that 26% number anyways.
The biggest lie that has been perpetuated by the Coalition grifters (who, by the way, have landed cushy jobs on the backs of YOUR manufactured grievance) is that white families were the biggest beneficiaries of admissions changes, when in fact the biggest beneficiaries have been low-income ASIAN families, whose population increased by over 600%!
So my numbers were right. The fact is Asians were targeted with a divide and rule campaign because white families can't compete.
Hopefully your kids inherited your spouse’s aptitude for math/critical thinking.
Weak response. You know I am right.
I know that only half of eligible white kids even bother to apply. So your narrative is fiction.
huh? wasn't my narrative. but yeah white kids didn't apply because they were not getting in anyway.
White kids weren’t the greatest beneficiaries and there wasn’t a white parent conspiracy.
Except that the TJ reforms were literally a conspiracy led by a rich White parent. There's hard evidence to back it, documented in court. Gawd I hate this "say whatever it takes to get people to believe you" nonsense.
....no there isn't. Who would that parent even be?
If the reforms were led by anyone, it was the TJ Alumni Action Group, who believe it or not, are overwhelmingly Asian in their leadership.
Yes there is! The reforms were led by Brabrand... everyone knows it, so please stop gaslighting.
Brabrand is the superintendent, and his actions were reactionary at most.
Yes, very much. Nevertheless, he was the rich White parent who was responsible for pushing through the reforms.
It's incredibly disingenuous to phrase it that way. He was acting in his capacity as superintendent - the fact that he's a parent (which, frankly, I didn't even know) is irrelevant to this particular conversation.
It's phrased that way to intentionally emphasize how BS the original false claim about lack of conspiracy was. Yes, he was acting in his capacity as superintendent, but while doing so, he was also illegally conspiring to reduce the number of Asians in TJ. Nixon was also acting in his capacity as President of the United States when he participated in a conspiracy. Yes it's relevant to the conversation, but I can see how you might prefer that it wasn't.
If by illegal conspriing you mean provide a level playing field open to all residents sure.
lol. Bonus points for "experience factors" is hardly a level playing field. FU
Anonymous wrote:Just you wait till the next elections.
Savor ‘victory’ till then. The progressives will be the Democrats’ Achilles Heel. TJ is but a skirmish in the bigger battle to ensure schools are focused on education not virtue signaling.
Youngkin should just go ahead and set up the "Regional Governing Board" consisting of reps from all the participating jurisdictions (which is how TJ should be governed) which he is able to do under the current statute and put the control in that body instead of the FCPS.
And FCPS should take back its school and make it local. I'm fine if there's no TJ.
Some would be bummed. It is aspirational but the majority would be better off without it since it takes up a lot of time and resources that would be better spend on everyone instead of a few wealthy kids who will do fine anywhere since their parents will see to it.
Unfortunately the progressives believe that all meritocracy is elitist and should be abandoned.
When there is a belief that equality of outcome trumps equality of opportunity, you are ringing the death knell of any meritocracy. And that does not auger well for the American Dream. But that is the New American Dream of our esteemed Progressives. If they can’t have it, nobody else can have it.
Why does one need to trump the other? Both matter. Or maybe put another way, almost every agrees with the idea of equality of opportunity on the face of it, but that alone is not enough. When you have sustained unequal outcomes for large chunks of the population over time then it's a pretty good indicator that what seems like equal opportunity on its face very probably has some underlying systemic bias or inequality and you probably need to think a layer deeper than "BuT tHeY aLl TaKe ThE sAmE tEsT!!!"
Exactly. As always, conservatives and those who champion their causes always major in defining the terms of the argument, and in this case, the attempt is to claim that academic merit can only be achieved through standardized exam scores or through performance in academic competitions.
Not the only way, but the best way. This is how the entire world does this - by a standardized test that everyone takes and then they are ranked against each other.
Don't know about all this but defining merit in terms of a test that many people simply buy seems to favor the wealthy and unscrupulous.
Hard to see how a less objective approach will be more scrupulous. It’s ripe with the potential for abuse and ultimately will be gamed even more by those who learn how to play the Oppression Olympics.
When we shell out $10K for TJ prep, we deserve those spots!
Just to be clear the Asian kids in these prep classes are only competing with other Asian kids. They don't need the prep to compete with others. Not because they are smarter but most non-Asians just don't care that much. Of course you know all that. That's why the focus was not to create a non-standard test but to just eliminiate it. Only way to win the game is to just remove the hoop. Diversity was also not the goal - because there were other ways to do that while keeping the test. It was just to divide and rule and some white parents getting their kids a 26% leg up.
....what in the world are you talking about? They're not competing with other Asian kids. It's not like the previous process was limited to Asian kids - they represented a little more than 50% of the application pool and that's all.
Creating a non-standardized test that isn't vetted by multiple outlets is extremely problematic for a public school. That's not an option because it is too easy to attack on legal grounds.
What other ways do you suggest for improving diversity while keeping the test? Racial quotas are expressly unconstitutional.
And where in the world do you get 26% from? Poor Asians benefited far more from the admissions changes than white, Black, or Hispanic students.
Have a test and add experience factors instead of removing the test altogether. Removing test altogether only helps white kids.
26% is how many more white kids got in without test.
prep classes or not, if there is a test asian kids will do well. which is why you guys removed the test. it is obvious and as per the remarks found in discovery. Asian kids went down 26% white kids went up 26%. that's what is the most galling thing. not blacks and hispanics getting more seats. all power to them.
Can you provide a citation for those numbers? What I read indicates your numbers are wrong. Black and Hispanic kids went up 2X-3X while Asian students went down a little but that was because they had made up 75% of all seats previously.
The data is available. Use a calculator. Asian kids went down 26% white kids went up 26%. the numbers are right however much you try to tirture them. As I said all power to black and hispanic kids. but the white parents just removed the test so that their delicate kids could get a leg up. shame.
So by your tortured interpretation of these numbers, Black population increased by 576% and Hispanic population increased by 343%. Sort of dwarfs that 26% number anyways.
The biggest lie that has been perpetuated by the Coalition grifters (who, by the way, have landed cushy jobs on the backs of YOUR manufactured grievance) is that white families were the biggest beneficiaries of admissions changes, when in fact the biggest beneficiaries have been low-income ASIAN families, whose population increased by over 600%!
So my numbers were right. The fact is Asians were targeted with a divide and rule campaign because white families can't compete.
Hopefully your kids inherited your spouse’s aptitude for math/critical thinking.
Weak response. You know I am right.
I know that only half of eligible white kids even bother to apply. So your narrative is fiction.
huh? wasn't my narrative. but yeah white kids didn't apply because they were not getting in anyway.
White kids weren’t the greatest beneficiaries and there wasn’t a white parent conspiracy.
Except that the TJ reforms were literally a conspiracy led by a rich White parent. There's hard evidence to back it, documented in court. Gawd I hate this "say whatever it takes to get people to believe you" nonsense.
....no there isn't. Who would that parent even be?
If the reforms were led by anyone, it was the TJ Alumni Action Group, who believe it or not, are overwhelmingly Asian in their leadership.
Yes there is! The reforms were led by Brabrand... everyone knows it, so please stop gaslighting.
Brabrand is the superintendent, and his actions were reactionary at most.
Yes, very much. Nevertheless, he was the rich White parent who was responsible for pushing through the reforms.
It's incredibly disingenuous to phrase it that way. He was acting in his capacity as superintendent - the fact that he's a parent (which, frankly, I didn't even know) is irrelevant to this particular conversation.
It's phrased that way to intentionally emphasize how BS the original false claim about lack of conspiracy was. Yes, he was acting in his capacity as superintendent, but while doing so, he was also illegally conspiring to reduce the number of Asians in TJ. Nixon was also acting in his capacity as President of the United States when he participated in a conspiracy. Yes it's relevant to the conversation, but I can see how you might prefer that it wasn't.
That comment made absolutely zero sense and followed no logical train of thought. It's the type of comment that makes me think that folks align themselves with C4TJ do so in order to give their kids an excuse when they don't get into TJ - because they're clearly not inheriting a grasp of data, logic, and argument from their parents.
As with most things that are white-supremacy-adjacent, C4TJ stems mostly from that awful combination of gigantic ego and massive insecurity.
what the heck are you guys arguing about. some fine fools on both sides.
Very true. Both the C4TJ and the TJAAG are full of people with inflated egos who have spent the last two years sucking all the oxygen out of FCPS by centering TJ to an unprecedented agree. It's like the other 200 schools in FCPS don't matter and deserve no attention.
The current School Board should be voted out in their entirety next year for getting sucked into the morass, but it's not like they should be replaced by the likes of Makya Little, Jorge Torrico, Asra Nomani or Harry Jackson. We're getting a brief reprieve from Asra for now, because she's been focusing most of her attention on the Johnny Depp trial for some odd reason, but no doubt she'll be back to obsessing about TJ in a few weeks.
Is the trial being covered on FoxNews? That’s probably why. She’s trying to get some airtime.
I'm voting for the incumbents. I wish they had gone a lot further.
Anonymous wrote:Just you wait till the next elections.
Savor ‘victory’ till then. The progressives will be the Democrats’ Achilles Heel. TJ is but a skirmish in the bigger battle to ensure schools are focused on education not virtue signaling.
Youngkin should just go ahead and set up the "Regional Governing Board" consisting of reps from all the participating jurisdictions (which is how TJ should be governed) which he is able to do under the current statute and put the control in that body instead of the FCPS.
And FCPS should take back its school and make it local. I'm fine if there's no TJ.
Some would be bummed. It is aspirational but the majority would be better off without it since it takes up a lot of time and resources that would be better spend on everyone instead of a few wealthy kids who will do fine anywhere since their parents will see to it.
Unfortunately the progressives believe that all meritocracy is elitist and should be abandoned.
When there is a belief that equality of outcome trumps equality of opportunity, you are ringing the death knell of any meritocracy. And that does not auger well for the American Dream. But that is the New American Dream of our esteemed Progressives. If they can’t have it, nobody else can have it.
Why does one need to trump the other? Both matter. Or maybe put another way, almost every agrees with the idea of equality of opportunity on the face of it, but that alone is not enough. When you have sustained unequal outcomes for large chunks of the population over time then it's a pretty good indicator that what seems like equal opportunity on its face very probably has some underlying systemic bias or inequality and you probably need to think a layer deeper than "BuT tHeY aLl TaKe ThE sAmE tEsT!!!"
Exactly. As always, conservatives and those who champion their causes always major in defining the terms of the argument, and in this case, the attempt is to claim that academic merit can only be achieved through standardized exam scores or through performance in academic competitions.
Not the only way, but the best way. This is how the entire world does this - by a standardized test that everyone takes and then they are ranked against each other.
Don't know about all this but defining merit in terms of a test that many people simply buy seems to favor the wealthy and unscrupulous.
Hard to see how a less objective approach will be more scrupulous. It’s ripe with the potential for abuse and ultimately will be gamed even more by those who learn how to play the Oppression Olympics.
When we shell out $10K for TJ prep, we deserve those spots!
Just to be clear the Asian kids in these prep classes are only competing with other Asian kids. They don't need the prep to compete with others. Not because they are smarter but most non-Asians just don't care that much. Of course you know all that. That's why the focus was not to create a non-standard test but to just eliminiate it. Only way to win the game is to just remove the hoop. Diversity was also not the goal - because there were other ways to do that while keeping the test. It was just to divide and rule and some white parents getting their kids a 26% leg up.
....what in the world are you talking about? They're not competing with other Asian kids. It's not like the previous process was limited to Asian kids - they represented a little more than 50% of the application pool and that's all.
Creating a non-standardized test that isn't vetted by multiple outlets is extremely problematic for a public school. That's not an option because it is too easy to attack on legal grounds.
What other ways do you suggest for improving diversity while keeping the test? Racial quotas are expressly unconstitutional.
And where in the world do you get 26% from? Poor Asians benefited far more from the admissions changes than white, Black, or Hispanic students.
Have a test and add experience factors instead of removing the test altogether. Removing test altogether only helps white kids.
26% is how many more white kids got in without test.
prep classes or not, if there is a test asian kids will do well. which is why you guys removed the test. it is obvious and as per the remarks found in discovery. Asian kids went down 26% white kids went up 26%. that's what is the most galling thing. not blacks and hispanics getting more seats. all power to them.
Can you provide a citation for those numbers? What I read indicates your numbers are wrong. Black and Hispanic kids went up 2X-3X while Asian students went down a little but that was because they had made up 75% of all seats previously.
The data is available. Use a calculator. Asian kids went down 26% white kids went up 26%. the numbers are right however much you try to tirture them. As I said all power to black and hispanic kids. but the white parents just removed the test so that their delicate kids could get a leg up. shame.
So by your tortured interpretation of these numbers, Black population increased by 576% and Hispanic population increased by 343%. Sort of dwarfs that 26% number anyways.
The biggest lie that has been perpetuated by the Coalition grifters (who, by the way, have landed cushy jobs on the backs of YOUR manufactured grievance) is that white families were the biggest beneficiaries of admissions changes, when in fact the biggest beneficiaries have been low-income ASIAN families, whose population increased by over 600%!
So my numbers were right. The fact is Asians were targeted with a divide and rule campaign because white families can't compete.
Hopefully your kids inherited your spouse’s aptitude for math/critical thinking.
Weak response. You know I am right.
I know that only half of eligible white kids even bother to apply. So your narrative is fiction.
huh? wasn't my narrative. but yeah white kids didn't apply because they were not getting in anyway.
White kids weren’t the greatest beneficiaries and there wasn’t a white parent conspiracy.
Except that the TJ reforms were literally a conspiracy led by a rich White parent. There's hard evidence to back it, documented in court. Gawd I hate this "say whatever it takes to get people to believe you" nonsense.
Anonymous wrote:Just you wait till the next elections.
Savor ‘victory’ till then. The progressives will be the Democrats’ Achilles Heel. TJ is but a skirmish in the bigger battle to ensure schools are focused on education not virtue signaling.
Youngkin should just go ahead and set up the "Regional Governing Board" consisting of reps from all the participating jurisdictions (which is how TJ should be governed) which he is able to do under the current statute and put the control in that body instead of the FCPS.
And FCPS should take back its school and make it local. I'm fine if there's no TJ.
Some would be bummed. It is aspirational but the majority would be better off without it since it takes up a lot of time and resources that would be better spend on everyone instead of a few wealthy kids who will do fine anywhere since their parents will see to it.
Unfortunately the progressives believe that all meritocracy is elitist and should be abandoned.
When there is a belief that equality of outcome trumps equality of opportunity, you are ringing the death knell of any meritocracy. And that does not auger well for the American Dream. But that is the New American Dream of our esteemed Progressives. If they can’t have it, nobody else can have it.
Why does one need to trump the other? Both matter. Or maybe put another way, almost every agrees with the idea of equality of opportunity on the face of it, but that alone is not enough. When you have sustained unequal outcomes for large chunks of the population over time then it's a pretty good indicator that what seems like equal opportunity on its face very probably has some underlying systemic bias or inequality and you probably need to think a layer deeper than "BuT tHeY aLl TaKe ThE sAmE tEsT!!!"
Exactly. As always, conservatives and those who champion their causes always major in defining the terms of the argument, and in this case, the attempt is to claim that academic merit can only be achieved through standardized exam scores or through performance in academic competitions.
Not the only way, but the best way. This is how the entire world does this - by a standardized test that everyone takes and then they are ranked against each other.
Don't know about all this but defining merit in terms of a test that many people simply buy seems to favor the wealthy and unscrupulous.
Hard to see how a less objective approach will be more scrupulous. It’s ripe with the potential for abuse and ultimately will be gamed even more by those who learn how to play the Oppression Olympics.
When we shell out $10K for TJ prep, we deserve those spots!
Just to be clear the Asian kids in these prep classes are only competing with other Asian kids. They don't need the prep to compete with others. Not because they are smarter but most non-Asians just don't care that much. Of course you know all that. That's why the focus was not to create a non-standard test but to just eliminiate it. Only way to win the game is to just remove the hoop. Diversity was also not the goal - because there were other ways to do that while keeping the test. It was just to divide and rule and some white parents getting their kids a 26% leg up.
....what in the world are you talking about? They're not competing with other Asian kids. It's not like the previous process was limited to Asian kids - they represented a little more than 50% of the application pool and that's all.
Creating a non-standardized test that isn't vetted by multiple outlets is extremely problematic for a public school. That's not an option because it is too easy to attack on legal grounds.
What other ways do you suggest for improving diversity while keeping the test? Racial quotas are expressly unconstitutional.
And where in the world do you get 26% from? Poor Asians benefited far more from the admissions changes than white, Black, or Hispanic students.
Have a test and add experience factors instead of removing the test altogether. Removing test altogether only helps white kids.
26% is how many more white kids got in without test.
prep classes or not, if there is a test asian kids will do well. which is why you guys removed the test. it is obvious and as per the remarks found in discovery. Asian kids went down 26% white kids went up 26%. that's what is the most galling thing. not blacks and hispanics getting more seats. all power to them.
Can you provide a citation for those numbers? What I read indicates your numbers are wrong. Black and Hispanic kids went up 2X-3X while Asian students went down a little but that was because they had made up 75% of all seats previously.
The data is available. Use a calculator. Asian kids went down 26% white kids went up 26%. the numbers are right however much you try to tirture them. As I said all power to black and hispanic kids. but the white parents just removed the test so that their delicate kids could get a leg up. shame.
So by your tortured interpretation of these numbers, Black population increased by 576% and Hispanic population increased by 343%. Sort of dwarfs that 26% number anyways.
The biggest lie that has been perpetuated by the Coalition grifters (who, by the way, have landed cushy jobs on the backs of YOUR manufactured grievance) is that white families were the biggest beneficiaries of admissions changes, when in fact the biggest beneficiaries have been low-income ASIAN families, whose population increased by over 600%!
So my numbers were right. The fact is Asians were targeted with a divide and rule campaign because white families can't compete.
Hopefully your kids inherited your spouse’s aptitude for math/critical thinking.
Weak response. You know I am right.
I know that only half of eligible white kids even bother to apply. So your narrative is fiction.
huh? wasn't my narrative. but yeah white kids didn't apply because they were not getting in anyway.
White kids weren’t the greatest beneficiaries and there wasn’t a white parent conspiracy.
Except that the TJ reforms were literally a conspiracy led by a rich White parent. There's hard evidence to back it, documented in court. Gawd I hate this "say whatever it takes to get people to believe you" nonsense.
....no there isn't. Who would that parent even be?
If the reforms were led by anyone, it was the TJ Alumni Action Group, who believe it or not, are overwhelmingly Asian in their leadership.
Yes there is! The reforms were led by Brabrand... everyone knows it, so please stop gaslighting.
Brabrand is the superintendent, and his actions were reactionary at most.
Yes, very much. Nevertheless, he was the rich White parent who was responsible for pushing through the reforms.
It's incredibly disingenuous to phrase it that way. He was acting in his capacity as superintendent - the fact that he's a parent (which, frankly, I didn't even know) is irrelevant to this particular conversation.
It's phrased that way to intentionally emphasize how BS the original false claim about lack of conspiracy was. Yes, he was acting in his capacity as superintendent, but while doing so, he was also illegally conspiring to reduce the number of Asians in TJ. Nixon was also acting in his capacity as President of the United States when he participated in a conspiracy. Yes it's relevant to the conversation, but I can see how you might prefer that it wasn't.
That comment made absolutely zero sense and followed no logical train of thought. It's the type of comment that makes me think that folks align themselves with C4TJ do so in order to give their kids an excuse when they don't get into TJ - because they're clearly not inheriting a grasp of data, logic, and argument from their parents.
As with most things that are white-supremacy-adjacent, C4TJ stems mostly from that awful combination of gigantic ego and massive insecurity.
what the heck are you guys arguing about. some fine fools on both sides.
Very true. Both the C4TJ and the TJAAG are full of people with inflated egos who have spent the last two years sucking all the oxygen out of FCPS by centering TJ to an unprecedented agree. It's like the other 200 schools in FCPS don't matter and deserve no attention.
The current School Board should be voted out in their entirety next year for getting sucked into the morass, but it's not like they should be replaced by the likes of Makya Little, Jorge Torrico, Asra Nomani or Harry Jackson. We're getting a brief reprieve from Asra for now, because she's been focusing most of her attention on the Johnny Depp trial for some odd reason, but no doubt she'll be back to obsessing about TJ in a few weeks.
Is the trial being covered on FoxNews? That’s probably why. She’s trying to get some airtime.
I'm voting for the incumbents. I wish they had gone a lot further.
Brings to mind the expression about the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.
Returning the current crew to office next year would be insane. They’ve botched everything they’ve touched.
Anonymous wrote:Just you wait till the next elections.
Savor ‘victory’ till then. The progressives will be the Democrats’ Achilles Heel. TJ is but a skirmish in the bigger battle to ensure schools are focused on education not virtue signaling.
Youngkin should just go ahead and set up the "Regional Governing Board" consisting of reps from all the participating jurisdictions (which is how TJ should be governed) which he is able to do under the current statute and put the control in that body instead of the FCPS.
And FCPS should take back its school and make it local. I'm fine if there's no TJ.
Some would be bummed. It is aspirational but the majority would be better off without it since it takes up a lot of time and resources that would be better spend on everyone instead of a few wealthy kids who will do fine anywhere since their parents will see to it.
Unfortunately the progressives believe that all meritocracy is elitist and should be abandoned.
When there is a belief that equality of outcome trumps equality of opportunity, you are ringing the death knell of any meritocracy. And that does not auger well for the American Dream. But that is the New American Dream of our esteemed Progressives. If they can’t have it, nobody else can have it.
Why does one need to trump the other? Both matter. Or maybe put another way, almost every agrees with the idea of equality of opportunity on the face of it, but that alone is not enough. When you have sustained unequal outcomes for large chunks of the population over time then it's a pretty good indicator that what seems like equal opportunity on its face very probably has some underlying systemic bias or inequality and you probably need to think a layer deeper than "BuT tHeY aLl TaKe ThE sAmE tEsT!!!"
Exactly. As always, conservatives and those who champion their causes always major in defining the terms of the argument, and in this case, the attempt is to claim that academic merit can only be achieved through standardized exam scores or through performance in academic competitions.
Not the only way, but the best way. This is how the entire world does this - by a standardized test that everyone takes and then they are ranked against each other.
Don't know about all this but defining merit in terms of a test that many people simply buy seems to favor the wealthy and unscrupulous.
Hard to see how a less objective approach will be more scrupulous. It’s ripe with the potential for abuse and ultimately will be gamed even more by those who learn how to play the Oppression Olympics.
When we shell out $10K for TJ prep, we deserve those spots!
Just to be clear the Asian kids in these prep classes are only competing with other Asian kids. They don't need the prep to compete with others. Not because they are smarter but most non-Asians just don't care that much. Of course you know all that. That's why the focus was not to create a non-standard test but to just eliminiate it. Only way to win the game is to just remove the hoop. Diversity was also not the goal - because there were other ways to do that while keeping the test. It was just to divide and rule and some white parents getting their kids a 26% leg up.
....what in the world are you talking about? They're not competing with other Asian kids. It's not like the previous process was limited to Asian kids - they represented a little more than 50% of the application pool and that's all.
Creating a non-standardized test that isn't vetted by multiple outlets is extremely problematic for a public school. That's not an option because it is too easy to attack on legal grounds.
What other ways do you suggest for improving diversity while keeping the test? Racial quotas are expressly unconstitutional.
And where in the world do you get 26% from? Poor Asians benefited far more from the admissions changes than white, Black, or Hispanic students.
Have a test and add experience factors instead of removing the test altogether. Removing test altogether only helps white kids.
26% is how many more white kids got in without test.
prep classes or not, if there is a test asian kids will do well. which is why you guys removed the test. it is obvious and as per the remarks found in discovery. Asian kids went down 26% white kids went up 26%. that's what is the most galling thing. not blacks and hispanics getting more seats. all power to them.
Can you provide a citation for those numbers? What I read indicates your numbers are wrong. Black and Hispanic kids went up 2X-3X while Asian students went down a little but that was because they had made up 75% of all seats previously.
The data is available. Use a calculator. Asian kids went down 26% white kids went up 26%. the numbers are right however much you try to tirture them. As I said all power to black and hispanic kids. but the white parents just removed the test so that their delicate kids could get a leg up. shame.
So by your tortured interpretation of these numbers, Black population increased by 576% and Hispanic population increased by 343%. Sort of dwarfs that 26% number anyways.
The biggest lie that has been perpetuated by the Coalition grifters (who, by the way, have landed cushy jobs on the backs of YOUR manufactured grievance) is that white families were the biggest beneficiaries of admissions changes, when in fact the biggest beneficiaries have been low-income ASIAN families, whose population increased by over 600%!
So my numbers were right. The fact is Asians were targeted with a divide and rule campaign because white families can't compete.
Hopefully your kids inherited your spouse’s aptitude for math/critical thinking.
Weak response. You know I am right.
I know that only half of eligible white kids even bother to apply. So your narrative is fiction.
huh? wasn't my narrative. but yeah white kids didn't apply because they were not getting in anyway.
White kids weren’t the greatest beneficiaries and there wasn’t a white parent conspiracy.
Except that the TJ reforms were literally a conspiracy led by a rich White parent. There's hard evidence to back it, documented in court. Gawd I hate this "say whatever it takes to get people to believe you" nonsense.
Which rich, white parent?
i.e. Cindy Gersony
Cindy is a former band mom. She has less than zero to do with admissions. She’s loud on Twitter but has absolutely no influence on anything with respect to admissions.
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