How/why do people have a second (or more?!?!) child?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/brothers-sisters-strangers/202302/how-siblings-contribute-to-the-good-life?amp

Hmm. Good relationships with siblings can help well-being, bad relationships with siblings can hurt well-being. Truly enlightening.

It is. Far more attention has been paid to parent child relationships, but children spend more time with their siblings than their parents and our siblings are with us throughout our life course while our parents are not. Having good relationships with siblings as a young adult is more predictive of emotional well being than good relationships with parents. It’s on parents to foster positive, healthy relationships between their children, but when that happens the results are powerful.

The comments about having a better relationship seem desperate. It’s different, but not better or worse. Also, many of us with more than one child learn so much through the experience of parenting children with different temperaments and personalities and many of us believe that makes us better parents to all of our children.

No one has said they have a better relationship with their only. They have said they have a *specific* relationship with their only, which they like, and they know that relationship would be different (not necessarily worse, just different) if they had more kids.

Some of you are obsessed with trying to rank family sizes and it's pointless. Mamy people don't even get to pick -- they have secondary fertility issues or they have twins or other multiples and fate chooses for them. Honestly, we're all lucky to have kids at all and insisting that your family is better because you have more than one sounds incredibly myopic to me. You learned something from parenting kids with different temperaments, another mom will learn something from parenting and only. Stop putting down others to elevate yourself. Just stop.

She specifically said less special, that is what people are responding to, because it’s antagonistic and rude (and false)

[Anonymous]

6-18 months is magically fun for me. I love that age. If it weren’t irresponsible to have ten kids, and I had help through the toddler years, I’d have had ten. I’m absolutely in love with older babies. I’d you’re not, that’s okay. No need to have more.

[Anonymous]

I loved the baby stage (& really all the stages to varying degrees… oldest is now a teen). I only had two, but would have had more if circumstances had allowed. But some people don’t enjoy babies yet want the kids when they’re older, so they endure the baby phase for that. And still others will be happier with 1 or 0 children. Personal differences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/brothers-sisters-strangers/202302/how-siblings-contribute-to-the-good-life?amp

Hmm. Good relationships with siblings can help well-being, bad relationships with siblings can hurt well-being. Truly enlightening.

It is. Far more attention has been paid to parent child relationships, but children spend more time with their siblings than their parents and our siblings are with us throughout our life course while our parents are not. Having good relationships with siblings as a young adult is more predictive of emotional well being than good relationships with parents. It’s on parents to foster positive, healthy relationships between their children, but when that happens the results are powerful.

The comments about having a better relationship seem desperate. It’s different, but not better or worse. Also, many of us with more than one child learn so much through the experience of parenting children with different temperaments and personalities and many of us believe that makes us better parents to all of our children.

No one has said they have a better relationship with their only. They have said they have a *specific* relationship with their only, which they like, and they know that relationship would be different (not necessarily worse, just different) if they had more kids.

Some of you are obsessed with trying to rank family sizes and it's pointless. Mamy people don't even get to pick -- they have secondary fertility issues or they have twins or other multiples and fate chooses for them. Honestly, we're all lucky to have kids at all and insisting that your family is better because you have more than one sounds incredibly myopic to me. You learned something from parenting kids with different temperaments, another mom will learn something from parenting and only. Stop putting down others to elevate yourself. Just stop.

She specifically said less special, that is what people are responding to, because it’s antagonistic and rude (and false)

She was speaking to her own experience and her own decision to stick with one, not the universal experience of all mothers. That's allowed. She felt that having another could make that relationship feel less special so she stuck with one. There is no way to prove or disprove that without some kind of parallel universe or time travel situation. She followed her gut and it worked out for her.

I do not understand why so many people have *freaked out* as a result. If you have more than one kid and feel you relationship with your kids is as good or better as a result of having more, then that's your experience and you made the right choice for you. End of story. What someone else does in their own life doesn't change that.

OP sounds like she's leaning towards sticking with one, but she'll have to base that decision on what resonates most with her. I suspect many happy parents of only children feel similarly to the PP who values what she thinks is a unique relationship, so that perspective might be of value to someone who is presently thinking they might be one and done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have an older child who is an only and there are times when I see families with 2 or more kids and feel a pang of envy. Especially when I see the kids interacting in positive ways and I feel sad my kid will never have a sibling.

But otherwise I'm mostly like you OP. If you are surprised to discover that some of the people who have same-age first kids as you are contemplating having another, wait until they have two and tell you they are having a third. I always smile and say congrats and I'm happy to meet their babies and glad they are getting what they want in life. But my internal monologue in these conversations is aways "what?! whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy??????" Everyone is different but the idea of three children sounds like hell on earth to me and I LOVE being a mom.

To me it was the law of diminishing returns. Like yes, would I love a second (or third) child and would it be amazing to have a parent-child relationship with more people and experience the joy of seeing them grow and become their unique selves? Yes, I have experienced this with my only and it is wonderful and when I see people with babies I think of how they are the beginning of that journey and how lucky they are.

But time is finite. Money is finite. I don't still want to be raising kids when I'm in my late 50s or early 60s. I don't want to have no time for myself or my spouse because our kids take everything. I don't want to constantly be navigating sibling relationships, thinking about how we have to multiply every family outing by x people, etc. I know that if I had 2 or 3 kids, my relationship with my only would be totally different and, if I'm honest, I think less special.

So to me it wasn't worth it. Also I grew up in a big family (4 kids total) and was therefore very familiar with the downsides of a large family and know that kids don't always get along and that parents do not always have enough time and energy to go around. It wasn't terrible, it just wasn't what I wanted for my own family.

PP here who has 3 kids - I think this is kind of bull. Of course your relationship with you only kid will be different but it isn't LESS SPECIAL because you have more than one kid.

I had my kids in my early 30s so all 3 kids will be gone to college by the time I am in my early 50s. We are very fortunate to have a high household income and don't have to think too much about multiplying every kids wants by 3. We can afford to do all the outings as a family of 5 without it impacting our budget very much.

Of course you think it's "bull" -- you can't imagine that there is any downside to any of your choices. It's very important for you to tell us all how you made all the right choices and have the best life, and besides you're very rich so you didn't have to choose.

But you did. Each of your kids gets less of you than an only child would, or than two kids would get. This is just reality. It doesn't mean it's bad to have 3 kids. But PP is correct that the relationship between an only child and their parents is unique and kids with siblings will not have quite the same bond. They'll have relationships with siblings, and the only child own't have those at all. But no one has it all. There are advantages to having (and being) an only. There are advantages to having (and being one of) multiple kids. Everyone has tradeoffs.

I mean, except you. Of course there are no downsides to anything you've ever done. You're perfect. I know that's important to you.

I don’t think it’s accurate that an only child has a more unique relationship with their parents. It’s different but not better or worse. It can also be an unpleasantly intense relationship if one or both parents are overly oriented towards perfection, has poor boundaries, or parents have a strained marriage. There are no sibling relationships that can provide a ballast and normalcy. My three kids are close in age and their relationships are incredible. They are very close. Our family is close and my husband and I are close to all of them, but they have something special as a sibling unit and with one another as siblings. It’s just different than a parental relationship and it provides a lot of dimensionality.

Your first two sentences are contradictory and also there is no such thing as "more unique." Something is either unique or not.

In any case, I am the parent of an only and I really like the relationship I have with my DD, and I know it would be different if I had more kids. It would still be a good relationship, but different in ways that I would mourn. I think it is nice for my DD to never have to compete with a sibling for my attention. I had to compete with my siblings for attention a lot growing up and it wasn't great.

The sad thing about this response is that you see the sibling relationship through the prism of competition and scarce resources instead of an opportunity to learn, share resources, and provide comfort and emotional support.

+1. PP could be unusually needy or have had narcissistic parents. Sucks for her but stable people who come from nice, normal families mostly have positive memories of sibling-parent relationships. I say this as someone with a narcissist and an enabler for parents so sucks for me too.

These are bizarrely judgmental responses to someone who literally just said she's happy with her family and has a good relationship with her child. It's also a huge leap from "I didn't like the competition I personally experienced with siblings as a kid" to "must be very needy or parent is a narcissist."

Also lots of stable people didn't or don't have amazing relationships with their siblings. If you don't know this, get out more. I'd say about half my friends have good-to-great relationships with siblings and half have bad-to-subpar. And they are all stable, good people (they wouldn't be my friends otherwise). I also have two friends who are only children and they are happy, well-adjusted people who have great relationships with their parents. I think here are good things and downsides to both having siblings and being an only, both in childhood and in adulthood.

The world is a complex place. It takes all kinds. There is no perfect family set up. Just have the number of kids that works for you and then love them.

It’s not normal to have “subpar” relationships with family unless there’s serious mental/personality issues in the family. I’m not surprised you don’t know this as your post reads narcissistic and un-self aware. You could take your own advice and try to enlighten yourself but it’s unlikely to work.

It is normal in that it is very common. It is a lucky minority who have ideal relationships with parents, siblings, spouses, and kids. Most people have at least one relationships that is difficult or not what they wish it was. For me it is my dad and my older sister. I have good relationships with my brother and mom and spouse and kids. But my dad and I have always been oil and water and I don't think I'll ever understand what my sister wants from me -- she is forever unhappy with me so I stopped trying to please her.

I am guessing based on your post above that you also have at least one family relationship that is not as good as it could be, as your rudeness and enthusiasm for accusing people of being a narcissist is unlikely to play well in all corners. It's okay though. You are not alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What a prescient discussion. I overhead two women talking in a coffee shop yesterday. They had multiple children and one was debating going for a 4th child. And the other woman was urging the other woman to have the fourth, but in the most toxic way possible:

Mom of 4: "You just have to go for it, don't think about it, like my pregnancies were so AWFUL that I prayed for twins because I just could not go through with it again and thank god I did have twins--they run in Ralph's family--and it was so hard but I look at my kids and I'm like yeah I finally have the thanksgiving table i want in 20 years"

Mom of 3: "Your oldest is 7, right?"

Mom of 4: "Yeah, we're almost out of the hard years. And it hasn't been easy. My middle child has sensory issues, she would NOT wear the dress I picked out for the family Christmas card, said it was scratchy. we're getting her evaluated."

Mom of 3: "But I just don't know, it's like, I get a panic attack just thinking about another baby. My parents cannot handle taking care of three at a time for more than like half a day, and my husband works all day out of the house."

Mom of 4: "Oh yeah, my parents are the same way. I told my dad absolutely no fox news on while he's watching my kids. I don't want them picking up bad habits from them."

Mom of 3: "Sometimes I think I might like to go back to work"

Mom of 4: "I work part time while my kids are sleeping, you can, too. You need a break from being the mom, always having to entertain the kids, I feel like I'm bozo the clown some days. Look into working the night shift while your husband watches the kids."

Mom of 3: "I'm 39...I just don't know about starting all over again with a newborn..."

Mom of 4: "Yeah, but it's kind of now or never. Just know that so many things can go wrong and you have to be fully emotionally and spiritually ready to have a special needs baby and there is nothing you can do to prevent it, you just have to know that that is your burden and your gift."

Mom of 3: "My mom had 6 kids and she was one of 12 so I don't know why I'm hesitating..."

Mom of 4: Now that I have four, when I look back to when I had just one I was like, "was I even a mom?"

I have definitely also seen this type of logic applied to having more children. I once asked someone how she decided to have more children after her first. She said: “I wasn’t ready at all. I don’t know if you’re ever ready once you know what you have to go through to have a baby. So I just got the IUD out and kind of closed my eyes and did it.”

I mean….ok? I guess that’s one way to go about it. But what if you applied that logic to literally anything else in life? Getting married, for example: meh, I don’t really want to and don’t look forward to this but I guess I’ll just do it! If a friend came to me and told me that was their logic for getting married I’d be like, well, why get married? Maybe it’s not for you. But for whatever reason people see this as a totally acceptable way to decide to have more children.

One reason, I think, is that the social norms and expectations for having more than one child are sneakily strong, especially for people who come from a family of more than 2 children. For some it can feel like a requirement or an imperative to have a family of a certain size. They simply do not question it and actually seem to feel a duty to have a certain number. Another reason is that large families are sort of trendy these days, and some women are susceptible to those currents. I also think some people are impulsive, or at a minimum, not the type of people who sit and interrogate their decisions or have the willingness to change their minds. In a way I’m jealous of those people. What must it be like to not think every little thing through and just act?

It takes a lot of hard work to understand your own decision making in life, and on this issue when the origins and inputs for this particular choice are so convoluted, it’s even harder. Should I have another child?= structure of family of origin + spouse’s family of origin + hormones + personalities of all + long held beliefs that have never been challenged + what your friends are doing + instagram + baby 1’s temperament + your day job and ambitions+ how much support/money you have…the list goes on. There are so many various inputs, I can kind of empathize with why people just make a decision and deal with the consequences afterward.

But, OP, I think the best way to go about this decision is this: you have a child because you want to (or are willing to) go through the WHOLE experience of raising that child. That’s it. And although people go about this decision in other (less logical) ways, I think this is the question you ask yourself to get to the root of what you really want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a prescient discussion. I overhead two women talking in a coffee shop yesterday. They had multiple children and one was debating going for a 4th child. And the other woman was urging the other woman to have the fourth, but in the most toxic way possible:

Mom of 4: "You just have to go for it, don't think about it, like my pregnancies were so AWFUL that I prayed for twins because I just could not go through with it again and thank god I did have twins--they run in Ralph's family--and it was so hard but I look at my kids and I'm like yeah I finally have the thanksgiving table i want in 20 years"

Mom of 3: "Your oldest is 7, right?"

Mom of 4: "Yeah, we're almost out of the hard years. And it hasn't been easy. My middle child has sensory issues, she would NOT wear the dress I picked out for the family Christmas card, said it was scratchy. we're getting her evaluated."

Mom of 3: "But I just don't know, it's like, I get a panic attack just thinking about another baby. My parents cannot handle taking care of three at a time for more than like half a day, and my husband works all day out of the house."

Mom of 4: "Oh yeah, my parents are the same way. I told my dad absolutely no fox news on while he's watching my kids. I don't want them picking up bad habits from them."

Mom of 3: "Sometimes I think I might like to go back to work"

Mom of 4: "I work part time while my kids are sleeping, you can, too. You need a break from being the mom, always having to entertain the kids, I feel like I'm bozo the clown some days. Look into working the night shift while your husband watches the kids."

Mom of 3: "I'm 39...I just don't know about starting all over again with a newborn..."

Mom of 4: "Yeah, but it's kind of now or never. Just know that so many things can go wrong and you have to be fully emotionally and spiritually ready to have a special needs baby and there is nothing you can do to prevent it, you just have to know that that is your burden and your gift."

Mom of 3: "My mom had 6 kids and she was one of 12 so I don't know why I'm hesitating..."

Mom of 4: Now that I have four, when I look back to when I had just one I was like, "was I even a mom?"

I have definitely also seen this type of logic applied to having more children. I once asked someone how she decided to have more children after her first. She said: “I wasn’t ready at all. I don’t know if you’re ever ready once you know what you have to go through to have a baby. So I just got the IUD out and kind of closed my eyes and did it.”

I mean….ok? I guess that’s one way to go about it. But what if you applied that logic to literally anything else in life? Getting married, for example: meh, I don’t really want to and don’t look forward to this but I guess I’ll just do it! If a friend came to me and told me that was their logic for getting married I’d be like, well, why get married? Maybe it’s not for you. But for whatever reason people see this as a totally acceptable way to decide to have more children.

One reason, I think, is that the social norms and expectations for having more than one child are sneakily strong, especially for people who come from a family of more than 2 children. For some it can feel like a requirement or an imperative to have a family of a certain size. They simply do not question it and actually seem to feel a duty to have a certain number. Another reason is that large families are sort of trendy these days, and some women are susceptible to those currents. I also think some people are impulsive, or at a minimum, not the type of people who sit and interrogate their decisions or have the willingness to change their minds. In a way I’m jealous of those people. What must it be like to not think every little thing through and just act?

It takes a lot of hard work to understand your own decision making in life, and on this issue when the origins and inputs for this particular choice are so convoluted, it’s even harder. Should I have another child?= structure of family of origin + spouse’s family of origin + hormones + personalities of all + long held beliefs that have never been challenged + what your friends are doing + instagram + baby 1’s temperament + your day job and ambitions+ how much support/money you have…the list goes on. There are so many various inputs, I can kind of empathize with why people just make a decision and deal with the consequences afterward.

But, OP, I think the best way to go about this decision is this: you have a child because you want to (or are willing to) go through the WHOLE experience of raising that child. That’s it. And although people go about this decision in other (less logical) ways, I think this is the question you ask yourself to get to the root of what you really want.

I had anxiety about getting married and before trying to conceive each of my three children. Before buying my home. I have anxiety about every major life decision. Not sure your example is a good one. Plenty of people prone to overthinking or even just adequately considering things are like this. I’d be more concerned if someone didn’t have anxiety before making a life changing decision like a marriage or child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm extremely anxious and type A and I knew that if I only had one kid it would put way too much pressure on my "one perfect child." We have three which enables me to more evenly distribute my neuroses among them rather than piling it all on one kid.

This is completely valid. My mother in law is like this. She has two kids and I always said she should have had three. My spouse and their sibling were completely coddled in a way that I think has been detrimental to them long term. There are some benefits to coming from a smaller family, but for an intensive parent like this, I think the downsides are prominent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm extremely anxious and type A and I knew that if I only had one kid it would put way too much pressure on my "one perfect child." We have three which enables me to more evenly distribute my neuroses among them rather than piling it all on one kid.

This is completely valid. My mother in law is like this. She has two kids and I always said she should have had three. My spouse and their sibling were completely coddled in a way that I think has been detrimental to them long term. There are some benefits to coming from a smaller family, but for an intensive parent like this, I think the downsides are prominent.

DP and while this isn't why I have 3, it's part of why I am glad I had 3, if that makes sense. I had them because our family didn't feel complete until the 3rd. Still, like PP said it's helpful that I can't pile all my concern onto a single child, or even 2.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a prescient discussion. I overhead two women talking in a coffee shop yesterday. They had multiple children and one was debating going for a 4th child. And the other woman was urging the other woman to have the fourth, but in the most toxic way possible:

Mom of 4: "You just have to go for it, don't think about it, like my pregnancies were so AWFUL that I prayed for twins because I just could not go through with it again and thank god I did have twins--they run in Ralph's family--and it was so hard but I look at my kids and I'm like yeah I finally have the thanksgiving table i want in 20 years"

Mom of 3: "Your oldest is 7, right?"

Mom of 4: "Yeah, we're almost out of the hard years. And it hasn't been easy. My middle child has sensory issues, she would NOT wear the dress I picked out for the family Christmas card, said it was scratchy. we're getting her evaluated."

Mom of 3: "But I just don't know, it's like, I get a panic attack just thinking about another baby. My parents cannot handle taking care of three at a time for more than like half a day, and my husband works all day out of the house."

Mom of 4: "Oh yeah, my parents are the same way. I told my dad absolutely no fox news on while he's watching my kids. I don't want them picking up bad habits from them."

Mom of 3: "Sometimes I think I might like to go back to work"

Mom of 4: "I work part time while my kids are sleeping, you can, too. You need a break from being the mom, always having to entertain the kids, I feel like I'm bozo the clown some days. Look into working the night shift while your husband watches the kids."

Mom of 3: "I'm 39...I just don't know about starting all over again with a newborn..."

Mom of 4: "Yeah, but it's kind of now or never. Just know that so many things can go wrong and you have to be fully emotionally and spiritually ready to have a special needs baby and there is nothing you can do to prevent it, you just have to know that that is your burden and your gift."

Mom of 3: "My mom had 6 kids and she was one of 12 so I don't know why I'm hesitating..."

Mom of 4: Now that I have four, when I look back to when I had just one I was like, "was I even a mom?"

I have definitely also seen this type of logic applied to having more children. I once asked someone how she decided to have more children after her first. She said: “I wasn’t ready at all. I don’t know if you’re ever ready once you know what you have to go through to have a baby. So I just got the IUD out and kind of closed my eyes and did it.”

I mean….ok? I guess that’s one way to go about it. But what if you applied that logic to literally anything else in life? Getting married, for example: meh, I don’t really want to and don’t look forward to this but I guess I’ll just do it! If a friend came to me and told me that was their logic for getting married I’d be like, well, why get married? Maybe it’s not for you. But for whatever reason people see this as a totally acceptable way to decide to have more children.

One reason, I think, is that the social norms and expectations for having more than one child are sneakily strong, especially for people who come from a family of more than 2 children. For some it can feel like a requirement or an imperative to have a family of a certain size. They simply do not question it and actually seem to feel a duty to have a certain number. Another reason is that large families are sort of trendy these days, and some women are susceptible to those currents. I also think some people are impulsive, or at a minimum, not the type of people who sit and interrogate their decisions or have the willingness to change their minds. In a way I’m jealous of those people. What must it be like to not think every little thing through and just act?

It takes a lot of hard work to understand your own decision making in life, and on this issue when the origins and inputs for this particular choice are so convoluted, it’s even harder. Should I have another child?= structure of family of origin + spouse’s family of origin + hormones + personalities of all + long held beliefs that have never been challenged + what your friends are doing + instagram + baby 1’s temperament + your day job and ambitions+ how much support/money you have…the list goes on. There are so many various inputs, I can kind of empathize with why people just make a decision and deal with the consequences afterward.

But, OP, I think the best way to go about this decision is this: you have a child because you want to (or are willing to) go through the WHOLE experience of raising that child. That’s it. And although people go about this decision in other (less logical) ways, I think this is the question you ask yourself to get to the root of what you really want.

I had anxiety about getting married and before trying to conceive each of my three children. Before buying my home. I have anxiety about every major life decision. Not sure your example is a good one. Plenty of people prone to overthinking or even just adequately considering things are like this. I’d be more concerned if someone didn’t have anxiety before making a life changing decision like a marriage or child.

Sure, but having anxiety is not the same thing as not wanting to do something and then doing it anyway. I’m assuming when you asked yourself “do I want to go through this whole experience do this even though I’m worried about it?” Your answer was yes. For the person who said “I wasn’t ready but I just closed my eyes and did it,” is not the same as “I am worried about this but I also feel in my gut that this is what I want.” Perhaps they weren’t expressing themselves clearly and the latter is really what they meant to say. But I’ve encountered the former line of logic more than once—and it even appears on this thread. Each time I encounter it I wonder what’s underneath there.

Anxiety about a wedding is one thing. Anxiety about who you are getting married to is another. One I would push through, the other I would not ignore. Same thing with the baby question. Some worries may be worth pushing through, some may need to be given space to figure out a path forward.

[Anonymous]

I am so happy with my one kid. I am not anxious or Type A though -- I don't expect my only to be a perfect kid and don't really have a problem letting her be her own person or giving her space.

Actually that's one reason I think we are so happy with one -- I also like my space.

I'm happy for anyone who has 2 or more kids and is happy with their choice but I love being a mom of an only. It is perfect *for me.* I had a brief period where hormones were like "have another kid!" but my brain was like "slow your roll" and I'm glad I listened to my brain because my hormones shifted and within a couple years the thought of another pregnancy or going through the infant stage sounded awful to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a prescient discussion. I overhead two women talking in a coffee shop yesterday. They had multiple children and one was debating going for a 4th child. And the other woman was urging the other woman to have the fourth, but in the most toxic way possible:

Mom of 4: "You just have to go for it, don't think about it, like my pregnancies were so AWFUL that I prayed for twins because I just could not go through with it again and thank god I did have twins--they run in Ralph's family--and it was so hard but I look at my kids and I'm like yeah I finally have the thanksgiving table i want in 20 years"

Mom of 3: "Your oldest is 7, right?"

Mom of 4: "Yeah, we're almost out of the hard years. And it hasn't been easy. My middle child has sensory issues, she would NOT wear the dress I picked out for the family Christmas card, said it was scratchy. we're getting her evaluated."

Mom of 3: "But I just don't know, it's like, I get a panic attack just thinking about another baby. My parents cannot handle taking care of three at a time for more than like half a day, and my husband works all day out of the house."

Mom of 4: "Oh yeah, my parents are the same way. I told my dad absolutely no fox news on while he's watching my kids. I don't want them picking up bad habits from them."

Mom of 3: "Sometimes I think I might like to go back to work"

Mom of 4: "I work part time while my kids are sleeping, you can, too. You need a break from being the mom, always having to entertain the kids, I feel like I'm bozo the clown some days. Look into working the night shift while your husband watches the kids."

Mom of 3: "I'm 39...I just don't know about starting all over again with a newborn..."

Mom of 4: "Yeah, but it's kind of now or never. Just know that so many things can go wrong and you have to be fully emotionally and spiritually ready to have a special needs baby and there is nothing you can do to prevent it, you just have to know that that is your burden and your gift."

Mom of 3: "My mom had 6 kids and she was one of 12 so I don't know why I'm hesitating..."

Mom of 4: Now that I have four, when I look back to when I had just one I was like, "was I even a mom?"

I have definitely also seen this type of logic applied to having more children. I once asked someone how she decided to have more children after her first. She said: “I wasn’t ready at all. I don’t know if you’re ever ready once you know what you have to go through to have a baby. So I just got the IUD out and kind of closed my eyes and did it.”

I mean….ok? I guess that’s one way to go about it. But what if you applied that logic to literally anything else in life? Getting married, for example: meh, I don’t really want to and don’t look forward to this but I guess I’ll just do it! If a friend came to me and told me that was their logic for getting married I’d be like, well, why get married? Maybe it’s not for you. But for whatever reason people see this as a totally acceptable way to decide to have more children.

One reason, I think, is that the social norms and expectations for having more than one child are sneakily strong, especially for people who come from a family of more than 2 children. For some it can feel like a requirement or an imperative to have a family of a certain size. They simply do not question it and actually seem to feel a duty to have a certain number. Another reason is that large families are sort of trendy these days, and some women are susceptible to those currents. I also think some people are impulsive, or at a minimum, not the type of people who sit and interrogate their decisions or have the willingness to change their minds. In a way I’m jealous of those people. What must it be like to not think every little thing through and just act?

It takes a lot of hard work to understand your own decision making in life, and on this issue when the origins and inputs for this particular choice are so convoluted, it’s even harder. Should I have another child?= structure of family of origin + spouse’s family of origin + hormones + personalities of all + long held beliefs that have never been challenged + what your friends are doing + instagram + baby 1’s temperament + your day job and ambitions+ how much support/money you have…the list goes on. There are so many various inputs, I can kind of empathize with why people just make a decision and deal with the consequences afterward.

But, OP, I think the best way to go about this decision is this: you have a child because you want to (or are willing to) go through the WHOLE experience of raising that child. That’s it. And although people go about this decision in other (less logical) ways, I think this is the question you ask yourself to get to the root of what you really want.

I had anxiety about getting married and before trying to conceive each of my three children. Before buying my home. I have anxiety about every major life decision. Not sure your example is a good one. Plenty of people prone to overthinking or even just adequately considering things are like this. I’d be more concerned if someone didn’t have anxiety before making a life changing decision like a marriage or child.

Sure, but having anxiety is not the same thing as not wanting to do something and then doing it anyway. I’m assuming when you asked yourself “do I want to go through this whole experience do this even though I’m worried about it?” Your answer was yes. For the person who said “I wasn’t ready but I just closed my eyes and did it,” is not the same as “I am worried about this but I also feel in my gut that this is what I want.” Perhaps they weren’t expressing themselves clearly and the latter is really what they meant to say. But I’ve encountered the former line of logic more than once—and it even appears on this thread. Each time I encounter it I wonder what’s underneath there.

Anxiety about a wedding is one thing. Anxiety about who you are getting married to is another. One I would push through, the other I would not ignore. Same thing with the baby question. Some worries may be worth pushing through, some may need to be given space to figure out a path forward.

Agree with this. And I think specifically related to the pressure people exert on people -- there is way more pressure on people to just ignore worries and fears and "go for" another kid (or the first kid) than there is to do the same with marriage. If I'd told a friend before I got married that I just didn't feel ready or still had doubts if this was the right choice for me, I feel pretty confident most of my friends would have said, "Then don't! Put it off. This is a big decision and there is no reason to jump into if you don't feel ready."

But I had many friends and especially family members push me to have kids before I was ready, and to have more kids when I expressed reluctance about it. For some reason I never felt pressure from married friends to also be married, but I often felt pressure from friends with kids to have kids, and then to have the same number of kids as they have. I'm guess people just want the connection of that shared experience but it's not a good reason to push someone else to have children. I have several friends with three kids and that would be a very bad choice for me. Not to mention that they have a lot more family support and were younger when they started having kids. So while I'm happy for them that they got the family they wanted, I have no desire to emulate it and I resented the pressure to have more kids when I knew it wasn't right for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a prescient discussion. I overhead two women talking in a coffee shop yesterday. They had multiple children and one was debating going for a 4th child. And the other woman was urging the other woman to have the fourth, but in the most toxic way possible:

Mom of 4: "You just have to go for it, don't think about it, like my pregnancies were so AWFUL that I prayed for twins because I just could not go through with it again and thank god I did have twins--they run in Ralph's family--and it was so hard but I look at my kids and I'm like yeah I finally have the thanksgiving table i want in 20 years"

Mom of 3: "Your oldest is 7, right?"

Mom of 4: "Yeah, we're almost out of the hard years. And it hasn't been easy. My middle child has sensory issues, she would NOT wear the dress I picked out for the family Christmas card, said it was scratchy. we're getting her evaluated."

Mom of 3: "But I just don't know, it's like, I get a panic attack just thinking about another baby. My parents cannot handle taking care of three at a time for more than like half a day, and my husband works all day out of the house."

Mom of 4: "Oh yeah, my parents are the same way. I told my dad absolutely no fox news on while he's watching my kids. I don't want them picking up bad habits from them."

Mom of 3: "Sometimes I think I might like to go back to work"

Mom of 4: "I work part time while my kids are sleeping, you can, too. You need a break from being the mom, always having to entertain the kids, I feel like I'm bozo the clown some days. Look into working the night shift while your husband watches the kids."

Mom of 3: "I'm 39...I just don't know about starting all over again with a newborn..."

Mom of 4: "Yeah, but it's kind of now or never. Just know that so many things can go wrong and you have to be fully emotionally and spiritually ready to have a special needs baby and there is nothing you can do to prevent it, you just have to know that that is your burden and your gift."

Mom of 3: "My mom had 6 kids and she was one of 12 so I don't know why I'm hesitating..."

Mom of 4: Now that I have four, when I look back to when I had just one I was like, "was I even a mom?"

I have definitely also seen this type of logic applied to having more children. I once asked someone how she decided to have more children after her first. She said: “I wasn’t ready at all. I don’t know if you’re ever ready once you know what you have to go through to have a baby. So I just got the IUD out and kind of closed my eyes and did it.”

I mean….ok? I guess that’s one way to go about it. But what if you applied that logic to literally anything else in life? Getting married, for example: meh, I don’t really want to and don’t look forward to this but I guess I’ll just do it! If a friend came to me and told me that was their logic for getting married I’d be like, well, why get married? Maybe it’s not for you. But for whatever reason people see this as a totally acceptable way to decide to have more children.

One reason, I think, is that the social norms and expectations for having more than one child are sneakily strong, especially for people who come from a family of more than 2 children. For some it can feel like a requirement or an imperative to have a family of a certain size. They simply do not question it and actually seem to feel a duty to have a certain number. Another reason is that large families are sort of trendy these days, and some women are susceptible to those currents. I also think some people are impulsive, or at a minimum, not the type of people who sit and interrogate their decisions or have the willingness to change their minds. In a way I’m jealous of those people. What must it be like to not think every little thing through and just act?

It takes a lot of hard work to understand your own decision making in life, and on this issue when the origins and inputs for this particular choice are so convoluted, it’s even harder. Should I have another child?= structure of family of origin + spouse’s family of origin + hormones + personalities of all + long held beliefs that have never been challenged + what your friends are doing + instagram + baby 1’s temperament + your day job and ambitions+ how much support/money you have…the list goes on. There are so many various inputs, I can kind of empathize with why people just make a decision and deal with the consequences afterward.

But, OP, I think the best way to go about this decision is this: you have a child because you want to (or are willing to) go through the WHOLE experience of raising that child. That’s it. And although people go about this decision in other (less logical) ways, I think this is the question you ask yourself to get to the root of what you really want.

I had anxiety about getting married and before trying to conceive each of my three children. Before buying my home. I have anxiety about every major life decision. Not sure your example is a good one. Plenty of people prone to overthinking or even just adequately considering things are like this. I’d be more concerned if someone didn’t have anxiety before making a life changing decision like a marriage or child.

Sure, but having anxiety is not the same thing as not wanting to do something and then doing it anyway. I’m assuming when you asked yourself “do I want to go through this whole experience do this even though I’m worried about it?” Your answer was yes. For the person who said “I wasn’t ready but I just closed my eyes and did it,” is not the same as “I am worried about this but I also feel in my gut that this is what I want.” Perhaps they weren’t expressing themselves clearly and the latter is really what they meant to say. But I’ve encountered the former line of logic more than once—and it even appears on this thread. Each time I encounter it I wonder what’s underneath there.

Anxiety about a wedding is one thing. Anxiety about who you are getting married to is another. One I would push through, the other I would not ignore. Same thing with the baby question. Some worries may be worth pushing through, some may need to be given space to figure out a path forward.

I had anxiety about getting married, not about the wedding. And like I said, had anxiety about adding each kid to my family, buying a house etc. even though those were all things I wanted to do. I was just nervous about how they would all change my life and the things that would be out of my control. Often anxiety is an inner voice telling you not to do something you want to do, or making you feel uncertain or nervous of the questions you cannot answer or outcomes you can’t control.

[Anonymous]

Because you aren’t making babies - you are making people. They turn into actual, often delightful, wonderful people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm extremely anxious and type A and I knew that if I only had one kid it would put way too much pressure on my "one perfect child." We have three which enables me to more evenly distribute my neuroses among them rather than piling it all on one kid.

This is completely valid. My mother in law is like this. She has two kids and I always said she should have had three. My spouse and their sibling were completely coddled in a way that I think has been detrimental to them long term. There are some benefits to coming from a smaller family, but for an intensive parent like this, I think the downsides are prominent.

DP and while this isn't why I have 3, it's part of why I am glad I had 3, if that makes sense. I had them because our family didn't feel complete until the 3rd. Still, like PP said it's helpful that I can't pile all my concern onto a single child, or even 2.

+1. I was on a playdate for my two younger children over the weekend with the mom of an only who definitely falls into the coddling/crazy category. She is also a SAHM who is very much debilitated by her desire to be a perfect mother and wife, which for her manifests as control. She was going on and on about how she couldn't find the perfect breakfast option for her three year old. She has decided not to use the microwave anymore, but is against using the stove for breakfast or serving anything with a preservative; she would rather take a nap then drink caffeine; and she spent three hours on Friday chopping things while her daughter watched TV so she and her husband could enjoy a perfect home cooked meal. Meanwhile, her three year old is still not potty trained and they have hired multiple consultants to help (hello! it's control!); her daughter can only exist in two spaces in their giant home - her own bedroom or her overly curated playroom; and her daughter won't even share a pretzel with her and asserts herself constantly in opposition to authority at home and at school. Meanwhile, my three year old is potty trained (as is my older child); my kids eat a variety of foods at breakfast and I get them all out the door and to school on time during the week without having a panic attack if one of them eats instant oatmeal; my children are all actually really good at sharing with each other and others (even my 18 month old); there is no space in my home where my children can't be; my three year old's preschool teachers called her a leader and she's not concerned with defining herself in opposition to me or my husband; and my husband and I both work and have a great relationship, which is not predicated on me aspiring to be some perfect version of a wife and mother. I'm not saying this woman is a typical mom of an only, but she seems so controlling of her child and every space her child exists in that I think having multiple children would benefit her parenting because she'd have to relax a little and let go of this perfect mom/perfect wife facade. More focused time with a child doesn't always equal a better relationship, especially if the parent is very controlling.