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Anonymous wrote:live in rates (room and most food provided) are half of live out rates in most cities in the U.S. and elsewhere.
Not really. Many LI nannies actually charge the same or more than a LO nanny for the same job because being a LI is fraught with issues such as being expected by employers to be "on call" 24/7. LI nannies have to be paid at the very least minimum wage for every single hour worked, and it would be almost impossible to find someone good to agree to minimum wage.
OP, you need to either rent out your basement apartment OR hire a LI nanny OR rent out the apartment AND hire a LO nanny. You can't try to make money off of your LI nanny. And your statement here:
...she won't have to commute and spend all that money on gas and will have no other house bills (gas, elec, cable, etc....) so we were thinking that seems really fair for both of us.
is a little short-sighted. How will nanny buy food to eat? Personal care products? Health Insurance? Car Insurance? Renters Insurance? Clothes? What about entertainment money? Cell Phone?
If nanny is working 30 hours a week for you, when does she get time to earn the $1000+ per month gross that she'd need to actually pay her bills?
If you want a LI nanny, start by fairly evaluating hours needed and a decent wage (care dot com has a nanny pay calculator), then take a bit off those numbers for room and board. The Au Pair program allows host parents to deduct 40% of the AP's wages for room and board, which I find to be insane. Actually, there may be IRS rules surrounding this issue that give you a specific number or percentage you may legally deduct!
Anonymous wrote:Yes, $1000 is crazy low. I will offer pay ideas tomorrow when not on my phone. Briefly, I think all 3 families should pay at the very least $8 per shared hour with applicable OT. $12 per hour for solo care, and $10/hour for duo care. The math makes my head hurt, frankly.
Where will the share be hosted? Does that family have room for separate nap spaces and space to store equipment, food and toys?
How will Nanny transport the kids? Who will purchase the triple stroller?
Typical pto is 15 days plus the federal holidays parents are off. Nanny usually gets to choose 1 week of pto.
What will the sick child policy be? If the host child is ill, who will be the alternate host?
What happens if life intervenes and a family welcomes a second child, gets transferred, or leaves to return to daycare?
Do all 3 sets of parents share the same or very similar parenting philosophies? If not, can all parents agree to accept nanny's choices when she is in charge?
Adding on to my post from last night, I think one PP raised a great question - has this woman been a nanny before? Does she understand that, depending upon the parameters she is given around outings, she may not see another adult 10 hours a day? Is she able to cope with no breaks at all on days when nap time fails to take place for one or more kiddos? Is she prepared to keep 3 toddler boys occupied up to 10 hours a day?
Also, I assume the family that needs the longest hours would host. Are they equipped with inside and outside space for 3 toddlers to burn off energy? And looking at hours you listed, that assumption is wrong unless the 8 - 5 family is happy to have the 10 - 6 kiddo stay at their home with nanny for an extra hour??
Honestly, if I were considering this, the staggered hours would become frustrating. If the 10 am arriver is a slow to adapt child who takes 30 minutes to fully transition, that might mean little to no chance for even the smallest outing since lunch would have to be at noonish so naps could be had at 1 or so.
Regarding money:
Hours: Hours would be 8-6, M-F but not all the kids for the entire time. For example our kiddo would be 9-4, another boy is 8-5, and the third boy is 10-6. Not that it matters- her time is all on the clock- but at least it would be staggered.
9 - 4: 35 hours a week at $10/hour is $350
10 - 6: 40 hours a week at $10/hour is $400
8 - 5: 45 hours a week at $10/hour plus overtime is $475
Total weekly GROSS pay is $1225. That pay needs to be guaranteed, with no banking hours, no losing pay if you choose not to use nanny, etc. The ONLY time her check would change would be if she worked additional hours, and that rate should be her OT rate of $15/hour regardless of which family needs extra coverage.
The absolute bare minimum hourly rate needs to be $10/hour. I think trying to juggle 3 kid rate vs. 2 kid rate vs. 1 kid rate would eventually drive you all insane. Set an hourly rate per family, set an OT rate per family, and don't adjust or juggle. If you need an extra 3 hours one week, pay at the OT rate for that time, period.
OP, this sounds very difficult to do, but it's not impossible. For a 3 way share to work, lines of communication MUST be fully open at all times, parents MUST be on the same page, and nanny MUST feel as if she can talk to you all without judgement if issues come up.
Good luck!
Actually, depending on the hours and the breakdown of household:child related duties, as well as the size of the home and the amount of work to be done, $15/hour for a LI working 40 hours/week might be OK.
OP, the fewer hours you need, the higher the hourly rate needs to be. Additionally, the heavier the housekeeping duties, the higher the rate needs to be.
For $15/hour 40 hours/week, with duties split 60% cleaning 40% childcare, I think the following duties list is reasonable:
Clean all rooms in home 1x per week. Vacuum, dust, wipe counters, clean toilets, mop, etc. - Standard Housekeeping, no pulling out the frig, cleaning windows, etc. Loading/running/unloading dishwasher, children's laundry with their help, assist with household linens and adult laundry, grocery shop, run errands. After school childcare, homework help, dinner for kids.
When kids are not in school, tasks need to be prioritized differently if the employee is in charge of kids all day long.
You are basically looking for someone to be the SAHM.
OP, the fewer hours you need, the higher the hourly rate needs to be. Additionally, the heavier the housekeeping duties, the higher the rate needs to be.
For $15/hour 40 hours/week, with duties split 60% cleaning 40% childcare, I think the following duties list is reasonable:
Clean all rooms in home 1x per week. Vacuum, dust, wipe counters, clean toilets, mop, etc. - Standard Housekeeping, no pulling out the frig, cleaning windows, etc. Loading/running/unloading dishwasher, children's laundry with their help, assist with household linens and adult laundry, grocery shop, run errands. After school childcare, homework help, dinner for kids.
When kids are not in school, tasks need to be prioritized differently if the employee is in charge of kids all day long.
You are basically looking for someone to be the SAHM.
I think this is a situation where following the law is fine as long as employers know that most nannies will not know the law, and will likely be hurt and/or angered that what they see as half of their grocery money is being haggled over by people more well off than they are.
For example, let's say that Nanny Jane will be off Christmas Day only, and will work her regularly scheduled 11 hour days pre- and post-Christmas. Nanny Jane makes $15/hour, $22.50/hour for overtime.
Is it wiser for her employers to pay her for 4 11 hour days and an 8 hour day (52 hours), or to pay her for her regular 55 hours/week?
Paying Jane for 52 hours Christmas week saves her employers $67.50. Is that savings worth it? Or would it be smarter and better practice to pay Jane her normal rate?
Employers need to decide this for themselves, based on the legalities and the nuances of a close employee/employer relationship.
For example, let's say that Nanny Jane will be off Christmas Day only, and will work her regularly scheduled 11 hour days pre- and post-Christmas. Nanny Jane makes $15/hour, $22.50/hour for overtime.
Is it wiser for her employers to pay her for 4 11 hour days and an 8 hour day (52 hours), or to pay her for her regular 55 hours/week?
Paying Jane for 52 hours Christmas week saves her employers $67.50. Is that savings worth it? Or would it be smarter and better practice to pay Jane her normal rate?
Employers need to decide this for themselves, based on the legalities and the nuances of a close employee/employer relationship.
Yeah, that's unreasonable. If she worked 7:30 - 6:30, asking for time off would be necessary, but she doesn't seem to have considered any options.
Wow OP! How on earth did you find a replacement in 1 week flat? Were you already looking before nanny's in-law died?
I hope that either your nanny never gets ill and has no family or friends or that the hours she works are conducive to taking care of her own needs pre- or post-work. Maybe noon - 8pm???
I hope that either your nanny never gets ill and has no family or friends or that the hours she works are conducive to taking care of her own needs pre- or post-work. Maybe noon - 8pm???
Anonymous wrote:OP here: yes, so frustrated now.
So I'm thinking around 42-44 hours. I don't expect a ton of extras. The primary concern I have is to care for the kids. Obviously when the children are eating table foods, various meal prep for the child only. Cleaning up after the kid during the day but no other housework. I can do my own laundry.
Someone above mentioned thinking about care for my. 4.5 yr old when she is sick. My mom lives in town and will watch my daughter at her home on those days - no need to expose the babies and nanny to those germs.
I want to pay taxes and do this on the books. My husband has a job that requires us to do everything above board.
My work hours are super flexible. I usually leave the home at 8-8:30am and can be home as early as 3pm some days. DH is home by 4pm. We don't work OT, ever.
We are very easygoing people.
Again, we live in Stafford and have a big enough home to host and would prefer to do so.
OP, nannies willing to do share are going to have their own ways of determining what to charge. A few nannies will charge each family half of their 2 child rate, most nannies will charge each family 2/3 or so of their single child rate, and some nannies will charge 75% of their single child rate per family. I think in general, single child rates represented here (with some crazy outliers) are between $12 - $18/hour.
I would guess the majority of nannies would be looking to charge between $9 - $14/hour per family for a share situation. So for 44 hours of care a week, you'd be looking at sopmewhere between $414 and $644, plus about 10% for your share of taxes, and an additional amount if you use a nanny tax service.
Generally nannies with more experience and education charge more than nannies new to the field. You'll want to determine how much experience is important to you, particularly share experience or twin experience.
The fact that your expectations around "housework" are so reasonable will be a good selling point. Good luck!
If you can afford it, and you feel strongly that your kids will be better able to manage with a familiar caregiver, then take your nanny. Make sure you set up a vacation contract so she knows what is expected of her WRT hours and such.
I would do all I could to be sure she has a separate room, even a small room on a different floor from your family, so that she can "go home' when she is off duty.
You can also ask the hotel for a package of info on age appropriate sight-seeing jaunts, and ask nanny to do some research too.
It's OK to want to do what you can to get some pleasure out of an expensive vacation!
I would do all I could to be sure she has a separate room, even a small room on a different floor from your family, so that she can "go home' when she is off duty.
You can also ask the hotel for a package of info on age appropriate sight-seeing jaunts, and ask nanny to do some research too.
It's OK to want to do what you can to get some pleasure out of an expensive vacation!
I think that if you choose to use a nanny cam (or cams), all you need to do is say during interviews or pre-job meetings is this:
"We want you to know that we will be using nanny cams at random times during your employment."
Then look up local laws, follow them to a T, and add a nanny cam clause into your employment contract.
Failing to disclose that you may use a cam *might* weed out "bad nannies", *might* dissuade so-so nannies from performing poorly, and so on.
However, using cams without a general disclosure will *LIKELY* cause bad feelings, lack of trust, and possibly a breakdown of the work relationship between you and any good nanny you might hire.
"We want you to know that we will be using nanny cams at random times during your employment."
Then look up local laws, follow them to a T, and add a nanny cam clause into your employment contract.
Failing to disclose that you may use a cam *might* weed out "bad nannies", *might* dissuade so-so nannies from performing poorly, and so on.
However, using cams without a general disclosure will *LIKELY* cause bad feelings, lack of trust, and possibly a breakdown of the work relationship between you and any good nanny you might hire.
OP, I think you know that it's time to let her go. Give her notice if you're comfortable having her continue to work, or let her know she's done once you have found her replacement and give her a small severance.
As a nanny, I think that the PP's above suggesting you push her to be proactive in discovering what's wrong are wrong. You do not need to take on the job of discovering what is wrong here. If there is an issue, your nanny needs to take control and figure out why she is not longer able to do her job.
You can care about her as a person, but you are her employer, not her BFF or her mom.
As a nanny, I think that the PP's above suggesting you push her to be proactive in discovering what's wrong are wrong. You do not need to take on the job of discovering what is wrong here. If there is an issue, your nanny needs to take control and figure out why she is not longer able to do her job.
You can care about her as a person, but you are her employer, not her BFF or her mom.
Anonymous wrote:If the older kid is away at preschool 3-6 hours then the raise should be less.
Why? Is nanny not going to have to care for the child when there is no school? Is the nanny not on call for sick days?
Lowballing a raise because an older child is in school a few hours a week is cheap. Unless nanny is in no way responsible for the child at any time during the year for those hours, preschool doesn't affect a raise for sensible parents when they are adding newborn(s) to their family.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why she isn't taking him to the park every single day, and to libraries, children's museums, and other places teaming with children.
My 2 yr old goes to these places every single day. She spends at LEAST three hours every single weekday playing with other kids.
Tough with an infant home sleeping all the time. Two year kid gap can may things difficult to get out.
It can be impossible to get out if OP has decided her 2nd child has to sleep in the crib for each and every nap. OP, is that the case, or have you realized that child #2 has to do a lot of car seat napping to accommodate child #1's schedule?
If OP isn't throwing up roadblocks that keep nanny from going out, then she might suggest classes or activities for nanny and kids to do. I also would echo a PP and suggest that an evaluation of your oldest might be in order, simply to see if there are any significant developmental issues that need to be addressed.
And before anyone starts arguing legalities of OT when a holiday was included in the week blahblahblah:
If employers choose to nit pick 4 hours of OT vs. 4 hours of straight pay in a situation like the one OP described, several reactions may take place on the part of the nanny:
1) OK, well, I will refuse to work any additional hours on weeks where I have a paid holiday.
2) I think agreeing to work any more OT is a mistake on my part. The family doesn't seem to value my time very much.
3) Seriously? They pay me $15/hour and can't cough up for 4 hours of OT, instead insisting that a holiday means they avoid paying OT??? So they saved 4 x $7.50, and pissed me off to the point that I am going to be job hunting. Hope the $30 they saved was worth it!
If employers choose to nit pick 4 hours of OT vs. 4 hours of straight pay in a situation like the one OP described, several reactions may take place on the part of the nanny:
1) OK, well, I will refuse to work any additional hours on weeks where I have a paid holiday.
2) I think agreeing to work any more OT is a mistake on my part. The family doesn't seem to value my time very much.
3) Seriously? They pay me $15/hour and can't cough up for 4 hours of OT, instead insisting that a holiday means they avoid paying OT??? So they saved 4 x $7.50, and pissed me off to the point that I am going to be job hunting. Hope the $30 they saved was worth it!
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Okay so let's play out an example week here.
Nanny usually works Mon-Fri 9-5 (40 hrs). This week nanny's hours were:
Mon 9-5
Tues (Paid Holiday)
Wed 9-5
Thurs 9-7
Fri 9-7
So the nanny only worked 36 hours but is guaranteed 40. Is the nanny paid 40 hours this week, or 44? Shouldn't she get the full 8 hours for the holiday?
It depends on the wording of the work agreement. If your WA says:
"Nanny shall receive the following holidays paid:..."
and also says,
"Nanny shall work 9 am - 5 pm Monday through Friday, for a total of 40 paid hours per week. It is understood that nanny has reserved those 40 hours for employers. Nanny will be paid for 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year, regardless of whether employers choose to use her services when she is available to work. If nanny works any hours outside of 9 am - 5 pm M - F, she will be compensated at her OT rate of $X per additional hour worked."
then yes, nanny should be paid for 4 OT hours.
Sounds as if a meeting is needed to re-examine the work agreement (WA) and see if it needs to be amended. If your MB now needs you 11 - 8, but you only want to work 7 - 4, your choice is likely going to be resigning. If, however, you are willing to have your work hours shifted, get it down in the WA along with any additional pay/benefits that make the change worthwhile to you.
And if you aren't working EXTRA hours, just different hours, then you don't get additional OT pay.
And if you aren't working EXTRA hours, just different hours, then you don't get additional OT pay.
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