Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks, Muslima. And with that, I leave to go pray Jumuah prayer.

Don't forget to pray for me !

I did say a dua for you!

Anonymous wrote:Thanks, Muslima. And with that, I leave to go pray Jumuah prayer.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Salam,

I think she knows that Islam is different from the West. I think both the PP and I are comfortable in the fact that we do not need approval from the West, that's why we choose to be and stay Muslims and live this life, after all Islam is a life choice and only those who choose it adhere to its teachings. Yes to us our religion and to them theirs but fallacies were being said about Islam. The issue at stake was the misrepresentation of Islam and Muslim Women. I agree that the discussion could have been more mature and our adab was less than islamic at times but PP did apologize for her behavior., so now it rests between her and her lord. When we have differences, we must not forget that it does not take away from our primary bonds of Iman, so let's all close this chapter and move on, wa salaam.

Muslima, please point out a fallacy somebody has said about Islam. Yes, we know that a month ago one poster called Mohammed a pedophile, and that was really bad, but that doesn't explain any of the recent behavior from you or the other Muslim PP.

A lot of the disagreements concern statements you, Muslima, made first: that women are "equal" in Islam, that Islam treats female captives well, that converts are rising faster than immigrants, and that Islam gave voting rights to women 1400 years ago. You said were the first to raise these issues, don't you agree? Then, naturally, people asked you for evidence, and then they disagreed with your evidence.

Where are the "fallacies?" Please show us some.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From your last post, you think it's OK to tell people they have STDs if they DID mock you?

No, its not okay. In Islam it is better not to retaliate with mockery even if our offenders mock us. I am not the most pious Muslim because of my temper. Hopefully I can learn to react to mockery in the future in better ways befitting of pious Muslims.

You can be pious but flawed. God didn't make perfect people and we're all works in progress. That's a big point in Christianity, at least, and I suspect in Islam too.

Some other day and on some other thread, we'll have to talk about choice, free will and atonement

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
First of all, there is no proof you are indeed a Muslim. Where were you before when the islamophobes were attacking Islam and we could have used another knowledgeable person to help explain things to them? Instead, you sat like a potted plant and watched this drama like you were watching a soap opera. Now suddenly, you find it necessary to speak up, not to criticize those who trashed your faith, but to criticize the fellow Muslim defending it? Sorry, but you are very likely not a Muslim. Second, I do have islamic adab. But Muslims are not required to remain silent in the face of mockery and insults. I said I would stop the insults and mockery if they would agree to do the same. Immediately thereafter, they slew more insults, then asking Muslima to post a pic of herself in veil to garner public sympathy. Sorry, if you were a Muslim with strong feelings for your faith, you would have protested then.

There is no proof YOU are a Muslim, either.

I don't think there is any point in arguing the superiority of our way of life to non-Muslims. Islam IS different from the West, we live our lives by different rules, values and philosophy. We are not required to be the same as the West, understood by the West, or approved by the West. I am secure in this knowledge and conduct the affairs of my family in that way. I am comfortable in accepting that Islam sees women and men differently from the West, that we raise our children differently, that we see the world differently. I am comfortable explaining it, but if someone disagrees or doesn't like it, that's their prerogative. To me, my religion, and to them, theirs. This is how we do things. There is no need for anyone to agree with our ways. I am not dependent on approval or understanding of Westerners. You think you defend Islam by your behavior here but all you do is make it look bad by slinging personal insults. This is not how Muslims are supposed to behave. If you were my daughter, I'd be embarrassed.

Anonymous wrote:Nasty Muslima here. I am formally apologizing to our islamophobes. As you can see, I am not apologizing for labeling you as islamophobes. You are that. But I apologize for the mockery and insults that went too far. Muslima is a far better Muslim than I. Do you see how she refrained from being nasty? Thats the embodiment of real Islam. I love my faith no less but need to work on my temper. When you were mocking her or Islam, I should have responded diplomatically and tried to steer the conversation back to the serious points.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:Ok, I had a good laugh, time-out now. Jummah Mubarak to you my sister in Islam. I think you and I both showed our humanity and went overboard in some of these responses, I did chuckle a lot but reality has set in now, I think it is best that we leave it alone at this point. It is clear to everyone reading this that the other PPs are not here to learn about Islam, they just want to create discord, mock and vilify as much as they can. This is no longer a discussion/debate, and this is exactly what they wanted. So, in the same of what we share, and for the sake of Allah, I am asking you to stop responding to insults/mockeries in this blessed day of Friday, which is the day Adam entered Heaven, the day he was expelled from it, the day the Quran was perfected and sealed, and it is also going to be the day of resurrection The best day on which the sun rises is Friday, let's not waste it on this futile discussion. Let's follow the way of our beloved Rassul today and take the high road, him who was faced with so much more than we could ever imagine but showed good manners and was courteous to all, even to those insulting him daily and throwing trash at him subhanaAllah. The great genius of our religion, and one of the great truths of our Prophet saw is that he came as a mercy to everyone. He created multi-ethnic and multi-cultural societies. He had all types of people: Persians, Romans, Africans, Arabs from different tribes and he brought them into a fraternity of mercy. He had Jews and Christians and he honored them, and spoke to them kindly. He was not a harsh person, he was a gentle person. He created an open society. Our religion honors people and treats them with dignity. May Allah preserve in us the tolerance of Islam. Jummah Mubarak my dear sister in Islam!

Yes you are right, Muslima. I did offer salat and ask Allah for forgiveness. I read the Quran last night and it said Allah asks us to leave Him alone to deal with disbelievers. So I shall do that.

I love my faith but my mockery was not in accordance with Islamic behavior. I know that. I have a temper.

I have great admiration for your patience in the face of so much harassment and mockery. One day I hope I can learn that type of sabr.

Anonymous wrote:I engaged with Muslima on another thread and provoked hilarity on that thread by telling her I was praying for her as I received communion - she responded nicely, but others seemed to think I was a crazy lady.

Let me propose that everyone, whatever their religion or lack thereof, take the following to heart:

To respond to villainy with blessing, to answer persecution with patience, is contra-instinctual. It is to override our instinct toward self-preservation. So, to override a powerful instinct, some power greater than ourselves is required.

“What shall I render unto the Lord?” wrote St Silouan of Mt Athos. “I am a sorry wretch, as the Lord knows, but my pleasure is to humble my soul and love my neighbor, though he may have given me offense. At all times I beseech the Lord Who is merciful to grant that I may love my enemies; and by the grace of God,” he writes, “I have experienced what the love of God is, and what it is to love my neighbor…” Then, as precious as that grace is, St Silouan reflects on how quickly it can be lost: “But if I find fault with any man, or look on him with an unkind eye, my tears dry up, and my soul sinks into despondency.”

The power to bless when reviled, to endure when persecuted, to forgive when insulted, is God’s by nature, and ours by grace. That is the lofty, dignified, non-negotiable way of the Christian; it is the difficult but necessary way of love.

Honestly, can any other way bring healing to the world?

It is from an article written by Father John Oliver on the Antiochian Orthodox Christian website

http://www.antiochian.org/node/19200

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:
Islam gives equal rights to women and stop lying, nobody said our idea of "equal" was the polar opposite of what the American audience would understand. I repeat, we are EQUAL. And STOP LYING, muslim women get divorced every day without going to court, the nerve of you!!!! And guess what?? Even if Going to Court was Her only way to get a divorce, how about women in America, or any country for that matter, can they get a divorce without going to court??

Men in Islam don't have to go court to get a divorce.

Muslima wrote:
There are basically three ways for a wife can seek a divorce:
1)Ask her husband that she no longer wishes to remain his wife, and the husband accedes to her request and pronounces a divorce on her.
2)If the husband refuses to divorce her, she has the right to Initiate a divorce proceedings in a Shariah Court, whereby the Judge will study the conditions and reasons for seeking divorce, and then summon the husband and give him an option: either he accedes to the wife’s divorce request and pronounces divorce on her, or the Court will use its authority and divorce the couple.
3) If the husband does not pronounce the divorce and the Judge sees valid reason for divorce, the Shariah Judge has the authority to divorce the couple

I note that option 4) "tell her husband she's divorcing him and get on her way" was not on your list. That option is available to every Muslim man.

Also, in option #2, the judge doesn't HAVE to agree with the wife. He can just recommend lots of sabr and send her home. Lots of judges do, you know.

Muslima wrote:a woman came to the Prophet Muhammad seeking the dissolution of her marriage, she told the Prophet that she did not have any complaints against her husband's character or manners. Her only problem was that she honestly did not like him to the extent of not being able to live with him any longer. The Prophet asked her: "Would you give him his garden (the marriage gift he had given her) back?" she said: "Yes". The Prophet then instructed the man to take back his garden and accept the dissolution of the marriage (Bukhari).

So you think hadith are authentic now, do you? The other Muslim poster doesn't seem to think so. I note also that if that woman's husband wanted to divorce her, you bet he wouldn't be coming to Prophet Muhammad. He would just say, hey, you're divorced.

Google it! I refuse to "enlighten" to you. You obviously want to go in circle, answering everything with "but x, y ,z" and everything you say is a fallacy. I for once, am not interested, I have said it before, sterile discussions bore me. Join a debate team if you want to debate about Islam, you will be more satisfied there and they will actually take a time to prove x, y, z to you. Im gonna go do my nightly prayers ~

What part of what I said was factually incorrect?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These two are quite something - enough already.

To Muslima and her sidekick - you would do a better service to your faith to make your points concise and not make snarky comments.

I've said this again and again.

Muslima seems to have diarrhea of the mouth and cannot help herself/himself.

Muslima is a liar, does not live in the United States and spews her rhetoric like a sycophant.

Be wary absolutely.

THIS THREAD NEEDS TO BE SHUT DOWN.

No, babe, your mouth needs to be shut down. You have used DCUM to spread hate, all because you don't like Islam. You were called out for it and walked away with your tail between your legs. But then your hatred of Islam festered privately and you couldn't hold it in any longer, so you started posting more erroneous facts again!

1. Don't call me BABE. I did not walk away with my tail between my legs. I am not the poster you are referring to. I do not know anything about your religion other that what is posted here and it seems to spawn ignorance, fools, and violence. And I will stand up to you and take you down you silly Muslim coward.

2. I realize the moderator here is very PC, but I am VERY AMERICAN. Muslima can go back to wherever he/she came from, you need to shut YOUR mouth because really, YOUR hate filled bigotry and your backwards faith may be making headlines with your savagery. Where are is that getting you in the end?

Muslima's diatribes are only making your Islam look silly. SILLY.

STOP HER NOW. He/she really needs to be removed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muslima. For Pete's sake. Mohammed's first wife owned property before Islam even appeared. Islam did not "grant property rights to women." Why do you keep saying that?

Also, you're the one who is so big on using context to interpret the Quran, yet in this case you insist on ignoring context. You're talking about people who were acting 1400 years ago in a context of establishing relations with another tribe. Nor does pledging allegiance to the ruler of another tribe have anything to do with *choosing* the ruler that you pledge to or the "ballots" you kept referring to.

Read, woman, read. Nasty Little Muslim here. We just got through telling you that in Sura Ash Shurra there is a verse on the requirement of mutual consultations to decide all matters that require a collective opinion. It clearly makes this statement to both men and women. This means even in political matters, women's opinion mattered because usually political matters require a collective vote or opinion. But this ruling goes for everything from voting on a ruler to deciding who should clean the mosque that week.

Nobody ever called you Nasty Little Muslim. I called you Nasty Little Sidekick.

The racist appellation is your own invention and I refuse to be associated with it. It's part of the broader problem you seem to have with honesty and consistency.

Please call me Nasty Little Muslim. Simply calling oneself Muslim/Muslima seems to invite harassment by your band of the toothless. Since you have incurred my wrath, I'm looking forward to dealing with you.

No friggin way, I think you're nasty, even despicable. But that has nothing to do with your religion. If you want to refer to yourself as Nasty Little Muslim, that's all on you and I'm having no part of it.

I need to take a shower now, to wash your stench off.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muslima. For Pete's sake. Mohammed's first wife owned property before Islam even appeared. Islam did not "grant property rights to women." Why do you keep saying that?

Also, you're the one who is so big on using context to interpret the Quran, yet in this case you insist on ignoring context. You're talking about people who were acting 1400 years ago in a context of establishing relations with another tribe. Nor does pledging allegiance to the ruler of another tribe have anything to do with *choosing* the ruler that you pledge to or the "ballots" you kept referring to.

Read, woman, read. Nasty Little Muslim here. We just got through telling you that in Sura Ash Shurra there is a verse on the requirement of mutual consultations to decide all matters that require a collective opinion. It clearly makes this statement to both men and women. This means even in political matters, women's opinion mattered because usually political matters require a collective vote or opinion. But this ruling goes for everything from voting on a ruler to deciding who should clean the mosque that week.

ahahah dear fellow muslim poster, you crack me up subhanallah May Allah have mercy on us LOLLLLL

I apologize, Muslima, for using unislamic language here. I'm a decent Muslim but I lose my temper with people like this.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:
Islam gives equal rights to women and stop lying, nobody said our idea of "equal" was the polar opposite of what the American audience would understand. I repeat, we are EQUAL. And STOP LYING, muslim women get divorced every day without going to court, the nerve of you!!!! And guess what?? Even if Going to Court was Her only way to get a divorce, how about women in America, or any country for that matter, can they get a divorce without going to court??

Men in Islam don't have to go court to get a divorce.

Muslima wrote:
There are basically three ways for a wife can seek a divorce:
1)Ask her husband that she no longer wishes to remain his wife, and the husband accedes to her request and pronounces a divorce on her.
2)If the husband refuses to divorce her, she has the right to Initiate a divorce proceedings in a Shariah Court, whereby the Judge will study the conditions and reasons for seeking divorce, and then summon the husband and give him an option: either he accedes to the wife’s divorce request and pronounces divorce on her, or the Court will use its authority and divorce the couple.
3) If the husband does not pronounce the divorce and the Judge sees valid reason for divorce, the Shariah Judge has the authority to divorce the couple

I note that option 4) "tell her husband she's divorcing him and get on her way" was not on your list. That option is available to every Muslim man.

Also, in option #2, the judge doesn't HAVE to agree with the wife. He can just recommend lots of sabr and send her home. Lots of judges do, you know.

Muslima wrote:a woman came to the Prophet Muhammad seeking the dissolution of her marriage, she told the Prophet that she did not have any complaints against her husband's character or manners. Her only problem was that she honestly did not like him to the extent of not being able to live with him any longer. The Prophet asked her: "Would you give him his garden (the marriage gift he had given her) back?" she said: "Yes". The Prophet then instructed the man to take back his garden and accept the dissolution of the marriage (Bukhari).

So you think hadith are authentic now, do you? The other Muslim poster doesn't seem to think so. I note also that if that woman's husband wanted to divorce her, you bet he wouldn't be coming to Prophet Muhammad. He would just say, hey, you're divorced.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muslima. For Pete's sake. Mohammed's first wife owned property before Islam even appeared. Islam did not "grant property rights to women." Why do you keep saying that?

Also, you're the one who is so big on using context to interpret the Quran, yet in this case you insist on ignoring context. You're talking about people who were acting 1400 years ago in a context of establishing relations with another tribe. Nor does pledging allegiance to the ruler of another tribe have anything to do with *choosing* the ruler that you pledge to or the "ballots" you kept referring to.

Read, woman, read. Nasty Little Muslim here. We just got through telling you that in Sura Ash Shurra there is a verse on the requirement of mutual consultations to decide all matters that require a collective opinion. It clearly makes this statement to both men and women. This means even in political matters, women's opinion mattered because usually political matters require a collective vote or opinion. But this ruling goes for everything from voting on a ruler to deciding who should clean the mosque that week.