Anonymous wrote:I engaged with Muslima on another thread and provoked hilarity on that thread by telling her I was praying for her as I received communion - she responded nicely, but others seemed to think I was a crazy lady.

Let me propose that everyone, whatever their religion or lack thereof, take the following to heart:

To respond to villainy with blessing, to answer persecution with patience, is contra-instinctual. It is to override our instinct toward self-preservation. So, to override a powerful instinct, some power greater than ourselves is required.

“What shall I render unto the Lord?” wrote St Silouan of Mt Athos. “I am a sorry wretch, as the Lord knows, but my pleasure is to humble my soul and love my neighbor, though he may have given me offense. At all times I beseech the Lord Who is merciful to grant that I may love my enemies; and by the grace of God,” he writes, “I have experienced what the love of God is, and what it is to love my neighbor…” Then, as precious as that grace is, St Silouan reflects on how quickly it can be lost: “But if I find fault with any man, or look on him with an unkind eye, my tears dry up, and my soul sinks into despondency.”

The power to bless when reviled, to endure when persecuted, to forgive when insulted, is God’s by nature, and ours by grace. That is the lofty, dignified, non-negotiable way of the Christian; it is the difficult but necessary way of love.

Honestly, can any other way bring healing to the world?

It is from an article written by Father John Oliver on the Antiochian Orthodox Christian website

http://www.antiochian.org/node/19200

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:Ok, I had a good laugh, time-out now. Jummah Mubarak to you my sister in Islam. I think you and I both showed our humanity and went overboard in some of these responses, I did chuckle a lot but reality has set in now, I think it is best that we leave it alone at this point. It is clear to everyone reading this that the other PPs are not here to learn about Islam, they just want to create discord, mock and vilify as much as they can. This is no longer a discussion/debate, and this is exactly what they wanted. So, in the same of what we share, and for the sake of Allah, I am asking you to stop responding to insults/mockeries in this blessed day of Friday, which is the day Adam entered Heaven, the day he was expelled from it, the day the Quran was perfected and sealed, and it is also going to be the day of resurrection The best day on which the sun rises is Friday, let's not waste it on this futile discussion. Let's follow the way of our beloved Rassul today and take the high road, him who was faced with so much more than we could ever imagine but showed good manners and was courteous to all, even to those insulting him daily and throwing trash at him subhanaAllah. The great genius of our religion, and one of the great truths of our Prophet saw is that he came as a mercy to everyone. He created multi-ethnic and multi-cultural societies. He had all types of people: Persians, Romans, Africans, Arabs from different tribes and he brought them into a fraternity of mercy. He had Jews and Christians and he honored them, and spoke to them kindly. He was not a harsh person, he was a gentle person. He created an open society. Our religion honors people and treats them with dignity. May Allah preserve in us the tolerance of Islam. Jummah Mubarak my dear sister in Islam!

Yes you are right, Muslima. I did offer salat and ask Allah for forgiveness. I read the Quran last night and it said Allah asks us to leave Him alone to deal with disbelievers. So I shall do that.

I love my faith but my mockery was not in accordance with Islamic behavior. I know that. I have a temper.

I have great admiration for your patience in the face of so much harassment and mockery. One day I hope I can learn that type of sabr.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muslima, I'm just an ignorant, barefoot, veiled Muslim gal. Can you explain to me what it means to be a very American woman? Does it mean she's wearing a baseball cap, her boyfriend's boxers, a nose ring, a few tattoos, and eating apple pie? ??

Appalling. Not as bad as your disgusting STD jab, but this is still shameful.

Be prepared, my dear. If you mock Muslims, I will do the same to you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nasty Little Muslim here. I am the one who is cautious about calling all hadith authentic, not Muslima.
If you're going to take me down, how come I'm still standing here?

Not the PP you're addressing, but once again, that bigoted appellation is your own invention. Nobody else called you that.

Anonymous wrote: If you are too cowardly to have an identity on DCUM, then you need to expect we may confuse one islamophobe with the other two.

You don't have a DCUM identity either....

Anonymous wrote: I don't know which sura/verse Muslima quoted but if its the one about a woman declaring her oath of allegiance to the Prophet, that is often used in support of the fact that Islam granted women political choices and their opinion counted. It may not show "voting" rights per se, but it shows women were granted the right to align themselves with whatever ruler they wanted. This verse shows they were politically relevant.

The sura I mentioned, ash shura, provides clear evidence that women had voting rights and the right of their opinion to be heard in all matters requiring a collective opinion. The Quranic language that addresses is plural, rather than female or only male. It means Allah is talking to everyone here. Given that Allah clearly had no issue delineating different rights between men and women, the reader would know that here, in this verse, Allah is including women.

You've been asked multiple times to cut and paste ithe ash shura passage here. Why have you still not done so?

Anonymous wrote:So its time to apologize to Muslima. Seems pretty clear. Islam did give voting rights to women.

Nothing is clear until you provided evidence. That's how it works. Repeating a proposition over and over doesn't make it true.

Sura Ash Shura isn't that long. Why couldn't you google it and read the whole sura for yourself? But its verse 38. Go find it.

Anonymous wrote:Nasty Muslima here. I am formally apologizing to our islamophobes. As you can see, I am not apologizing for labeling you as islamophobes. You are that. But I apologize for the mockery and insults that went too far. Muslima is a far better Muslim than I. Do you see how she refrained from being nasty? Thats the embodiment of real Islam. I love my faith no less but need to work on my temper. When you were mocking her or Islam, I should have responded diplomatically and tried to steer the conversation back to the serious points.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nasty Little Muslim here. I am the one who is cautious about calling all hadith authentic, not Muslima.
If you're going to take me down, how come I'm still standing here?

Not the PP you're addressing, but once again, that bigoted appellation is your own invention. Nobody else called you that.

Anonymous wrote: If you are too cowardly to have an identity on DCUM, then you need to expect we may confuse one islamophobe with the other two.

You don't have a DCUM identity either....

Anonymous wrote: I don't know which sura/verse Muslima quoted but if its the one about a woman declaring her oath of allegiance to the Prophet, that is often used in support of the fact that Islam granted women political choices and their opinion counted. It may not show "voting" rights per se, but it shows women were granted the right to align themselves with whatever ruler they wanted. This verse shows they were politically relevant.

The sura I mentioned, ash shura, provides clear evidence that women had voting rights and the right of their opinion to be heard in all matters requiring a collective opinion. The Quranic language that addresses is plural, rather than female or only male. It means Allah is talking to everyone here. Given that Allah clearly had no issue delineating different rights between men and women, the reader would know that here, in this verse, Allah is including women.

You've been asked multiple times to cut and paste ithe ash shura passage here. Why have you still not done so?

Anonymous wrote:So its time to apologize to Muslima. Seems pretty clear. Islam did give voting rights to women.

Nothing is clear until you provided evidence. That's how it works. Repeating a proposition over and over doesn't make it true.

Sura Ash Shura isn't that long. Why couldn't you google it and read the whole sura for yourself? But its verse 38. Go find it.

Don't you remember my post from last night? You're responding to me above. I DID follow your "orders" and I googled it myself and read it. I posted that I still did not see your point but I did see a lot of stuff about punishing non-believers and bringing back eye-for-after Jesus got rid of it. Do you remember my post now?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muslima, I'm just an ignorant, barefoot, veiled Muslim gal. Can you explain to me what it means to be a very American woman? Does it mean she's wearing a baseball cap, her boyfriend's boxers, a nose ring, a few tattoos, and eating apple pie? ??

Appalling. Not as bad as your disgusting STD jab, but this is still shameful.

Be prepared, my dear. If you mock Muslims, I will do the same to you.

I never mocked you. You are confusing me with another poster. I did call you appalling, just now, and I think that's accurate.

You, on the other hand, just made a sweeping condemnation of ALL Western women, especially with your stupidity about Western women and STDs. Congrats, you gave readers a worse impression of Muslims than 5 Islamophobes could in a week.

Anonymous wrote:

I don't know which sura/verse Muslima quoted but if its the one about a woman declaring her oath of allegiance to the Prophet, that is often used in support of the fact that Islam granted women political choices and their opinion counted. It may not show "voting" rights per se, but it shows women were granted the right to align themselves with whatever ruler they wanted. This verse shows they were politically relevant.

Anonymous wrote:
First of all, there is no proof you are indeed a Muslim. Where were you before when the islamophobes were attacking Islam and we could have used another knowledgeable person to help explain things to them? Instead, you sat like a potted plant and watched this drama like you were watching a soap opera. Now suddenly, you find it necessary to speak up, not to criticize those who trashed your faith, but to criticize the fellow Muslim defending it? Sorry, but you are very likely not a Muslim. Second, I do have islamic adab. But Muslims are not required to remain silent in the face of mockery and insults. I said I would stop the insults and mockery if they would agree to do the same. Immediately thereafter, they slew more insults, then asking Muslima to post a pic of herself in veil to garner public sympathy. Sorry, if you were a Muslim with strong feelings for your faith, you would have protested then.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muslima, I'm just an ignorant, barefoot, veiled Muslim gal. Can you explain to me what it means to be a very American woman? Does it mean she's wearing a baseball cap, her boyfriend's boxers, a nose ring, a few tattoos, and eating apple pie? ??

Appalling. Not as bad as your disgusting STD jab, but this is still shameful.

Be prepared, my dear. If you mock Muslims, I will do the same to you.

I never mocked you. You are confusing me with another poster. I did call you appalling, just now, and I think that's accurate.

You, on the other hand, just made a sweeping condemnation of ALL Western women, especially with your stupidity about Western women and STDs. Congrats, you gave readers a worse impression of Muslims than 5 Islamophobes could in a week.

My apologies if you never mocked Muslims. Its hard to know who said what here, since everyone is anonymous.

Anonymous wrote:

Nasty here. Nope. This was not a conversation about women's rights, it was a trashing session to show Islam denied women rights. It is most befitting to strip you of yours then by using degrading terms.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muslima, I'm just an ignorant, barefoot, veiled Muslim gal. Can you explain to me what it means to be a very American woman? Does it mean she's wearing a baseball cap, her boyfriend's boxers, a nose ring, a few tattoos, and eating apple pie? ??

Appalling. Not as bad as your disgusting STD jab, but this is still shameful.

Be prepared, my dear. If you mock Muslims, I will do the same to you.

I never mocked you. You are confusing me with another poster. I did call you appalling, just now, and I think that's accurate.

You, on the other hand, just made a sweeping condemnation of ALL Western women, especially with your stupidity about Western women and STDs. Congrats, you gave readers a worse impression of Muslims than 5 Islamophobes could in a week.

My apologies if you never mocked Muslims. Its hard to know who said what here, since everyone is anonymous.

No one here mocked MUSLIMS as people. They disagree with Islamic rules. That's their prerogative.