Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think everyone has a soul. And I also don't believe atheists, or anyone else, is going to hell.

So an empty hell, or no hell at all?

I don't believe in hell at all. Of all religious tenets, the concept of hell as a place is the one that should be outright rejected. There is no physical hell. It's a scare tactic and and it serves to make us fear death.

And you know that how? You've there and came back?

I know because people who were raised without fear of hell do not have this fear. It is taught to children and to adults who are "seeking" something.

No, my friend, you do not know! That is your belief, you have no proof or evidence for this. Your opinion is one in hundredths....

I actually recognize my friends who wear a niqab, I must be a genius ~

And it gets better in the land of the free, Dieudonne was arrested this morning ...

Notorious French comedian Dieudonné M’bala M’bala has been arrested for being an “apologist for terrorism” after suggesting on Facebook that he sympathised with one of the Paris gunmen, a judicial source has said.

Prosecutors had opened the case against him on Monday after he wrote “Tonight, as far as I’m concerned, I feel like Charlie Coulibaly” – mixing the slogan “Je suis Charlie”, used in tribute to the journalists killed at magazine Charlie Hebdo, with a reference to gunman Amédy Coulibaly. Dieudonné was arrested on Wednesday.

Source:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/14/dieudonne-arrest-facebook-post-charlie-coulibaly-paris-gunman

Dieudonne's arrest is one of 54 cases that have been opened in France for "condoning terrorism" or "making threats to carry out terrorist acts" since last week's Islamist shootings that left 17 people dead.

His lawyer David de Stefano said his arrest was "shocking."

"We are in the land of freedom of expression? This morning, the government provided the demonstration of that," he said sarcastically.

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:Every living being has a soul, even animals have souls....

Animals do not have souls.

Yes, of course atheists have souls.

That's your belief, mine is different, every living being has a soul, animals are living beings, as a Muslim I believe that they have a soul. "There is not an animal in the earth, nor a bird that flies with its wings, but (are) communities like you. Nothing have we neglected from the Book, and they (all) shall be gathered to their Lord." Quran

"Till, when they reached the Valley of the Ants, an ant (female) exclaimed: O ants! Enter your dwellings lest Solomon and his armies crush you, unperceiving"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think everyone has a soul. And I also don't believe atheists, or anyone else, is going to hell.

So an empty hell, or no hell at all?

I don't believe in hell at all. Of all religious tenets, the concept of hell as a place is the one that should be outright rejected. There is no physical hell. It's a scare tactic and and it serves to make us fear death.

And you know that how? You've there and came back?

Every living being has a soul, even animals have souls....

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:I believe there is an after life. How unfair would this world be if all ended here?

What does the quran say about an afterlife?

Man's life is divided into 3 parts: a brief stay in this world, life in the grave and an eternal life in the next. We believe that there will be a day of Judgement where everyone will be judged according to their deeds. Whoever does an atom's weight of good will see it and whoever does an atom's weight of evil will see it. In the Hereafter, every person will be shown all of his or her deeds, down to the smallest ones. But God will overlook and forgive many of people's evils in the world, except unbelief and the association of partners with Him, He will also forgive some evils of His believing servants in the Hereafter. When Allah completed the creation, He wrote in His Book which is with Him on His Throne, 'My Mercy overpowers My Anger". We are told that God divided Mercy into one hundred parts and He kept its ninety-nine parts with Him and sent down its one part on the earth, and because of that, its one single part, His creations are Merciful to each other , so that even the mare lifts up its hoofs away from its baby animal, lest it should trample on it ( the ninety-nine reserved for the Day of Resurrection.)

The reality of Paradise is something which people will never be able to comprehend until they actually enter it and see it with their own eyes. However, God has shown us glimpses of it in the Quran so we will have a general view of how it looks like. He has described it as a place essentially different to the life of this world, both in the very nature and purpose of life, as well as the types of delights which people will enjoy therein. The Quran tells people about Paradise, which God offers to them, describes its great blessings, and proclaims its beauties to everyone. It informs people that Paradise is one of two ways of life prepared for them in the afterworld, and that every good thing will be theirs in Paradise to a degree that surpasses our present ability to imagine. It also shows that Paradise is a place where all blessings have been created perfectly and where people will be offered everything their souls and hearts will desire, and that people will be far removed from want and need, anxiety or sadness, sorrow and regret. Every kind of beauty and blessing exists in Paradise and will be revealed with a perfection never seen or known before. God has prepared such blessings there as a gift to those who will inhabit the Paradise.

Imams al-Bukhari and Muslim narrated that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "If anyone testifies that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah Alone Who has no partners, and that Muhammad is his slave and His Apostle, and that Jesus is Allah's slave and His Apostle and His word which He bestowed on Mary and a spirit created by Him, and that Paradise is true, and Hell is true, Allah will admit him into Paradise through any of its eight gates he likes"

The most significant description of heaven is as a beautiful garden, filled with greenery and flowing water. In fact the Arabic word, jannah, means "garden." “It will be said to the people of Jannah(paradise). ‘Oh people of Jannah, eternity for you and no death!’ To the people of the Fire (It will be said), “Oh people of the fire, eternity for you and no death!’”

Here are a few verses of Quran relating to the description of paradise :

"(Here is) a Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised: in it are rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the taste never changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those who drink; and rivers of honey pure and clear. In it there are for them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from their Lord...." 47:15.
"[They will sit] on gold-encrusted thrones of happiness, reclining upon them, facing one another in [love]. Immortal youths will wait upon them with goblets, and ewers, and cups filled with water from unsullied springs by which their minds will not be clouded and which will not make them drunk; and with fruit of any kind that they choose, and with flesh of any fowl that they may desire." 56:15-21:

“And [accompanying them will be their] companions pure, most beautiful of eye, like unto pearls hidden in their shells. [This will be] a reward for what they did [during life]. No empty talk will they hear there, nor any call to sin, but only the tiding of inner soundness and peace." 56:22-26:

As for Hell:

Islam teaches that Hell is a real place prepared by God for those who do not believe in Him, rebel against His laws, and reject His messengers. Hell is an actual place, not a mere state of mind or a spiritual entity. The horrors, pain, anguish, and punishment are all real, but different in nature than their earthly counterparts. Hell is the ultimate humiliation and loss, and nothing is worse than it:

Mighty and stern angels stand over Hell who never disobey God. They do precisely as ordered. God says:

"O you who believe, save yourselves and your families from a Fire whose fuel is men and stones over which are (appointed) angels, stern and severe, who flinch not (from executing) the commands they receive from God, but do (precisely what) they are commanded." (Quran 66:6)

They are nineteen keepers of Hell as God says:

"Soon I will cast him into Hell Fire. And what will explain to you what is Hellfire? Nothing does it allow to endure, and nothing does it leave alone! Darkening and changing the color of man! Over it are nineteen (angels as keepers of Hell)." (Quran 74:26-30)

Hell has various levels of heat and punishment, each is reserved according to the extent of their disbelief and sins of those being punished. God says:

"Surely, the hypocrites will be in the lowest depths (grade) of the Fire." (Quran 4:145)

The lower the level of Hell, the greater is the intensity of heat. Since the hypocrites will suffer the worst punishment, so will they be in the lowest part of Hell.

God refers to the levels of Hell in the Quran:

"For all will be (ranked) by degrees according to what they did." (Quran 6:132)

"Is one who seeks the good pleasure of God then like the one who draws on himself the wrath of God? His abode is Hell – and worst, indeed, is that destination! They are in varying grades with God, and God is All-Seer of what they do." (Quran 3:162-163)
"And those who disbelieved will be driven to Hell in groups until, when they reach it, its gates are opened and its keepers will say, ‘Did there not come to you messengers from yourselves, reciting to you the verses of your Lord and warning you of the meeting of this Day of yours?’ They will say, ‘Yes, but the word (meaning the decree) of punishment has come into effect upon the disbelievers.’" (Quran 39:71)

They will be told after admission:

"Enter the gates of Hell to abide eternally therein, and wretched is the residence of the arrogant." (Quran 39:72)

The gates will be shut and there will be no hope of escape as God says:

"But those who reject Our signs, they are the companions of the left hand. On them will be Fire vaulted over (meaning the gates will be locked)." (Quran 90:19-20)

Furthermore, God says in the Quran:

"Woe to every scorner and mocker, who collects wealth and (continuously) counts it. He thinks that his wealth will make him immortal. No! He will surely be thrown into the Crusher. And what can make you know what is the Crushers? It is the fire of God, (eternally) fueled, Which mounts directed at the hearts. Indeed, it (Hellfire) will be closed down upon them in extended columns." (Quran 104:1-9)



There are many , many other verses and narrations that talk about Heaven , Hell and the afterlife in the Qur'an and the Sunnah with very detailed descriptions.

As has been repeatedly mentioned in this forum, and as any French person knows, CH mocked everyone -- including Jews. As any French person also knows, they were anti-racists, who used seemingly racists cartoons precisely to make their points. We can argue that their cartoons are distasteful and offensive. But if you can't see that Dieudonne is fundamentally different -- HATE speech, to incite hatred against a particular religious group, as exemplified by the quotes above, which are just a sample of what your "comedian" routinely says -- then you are part of the problem.
What troubles me the most is that you don't see that this vitriol is received by frustrated and impressionable young kids from the banlieues as a role model -- and then you see them doing the quenelle in front of synagogues and Jewish cemeteries. I thought you thought radical ignorance was the problem. You should denounce Dieudonne as even more dangerous to your community than some silly cartoons. You are choosing not to.

First, it is dishonest to say that CH an equal-opportunity offender. For one, the cartoons directed at Muslims were more vulgar than the rest, and over the past 10+ years, Islam became their primary target, out of all proportion with the number of Muslims in France or their political weight in the country. Why did CH fire Sinet, one of its founding members, a very famous cartoonist and humorist in France? Because he dared to write a story that revolves around a cartoon he drew about Sarkozy's son converting to Judaism? It was more a joke about the Sarkozy family's tackiness than about Jews. But the editor of Charlie at the time, Philippe Val kicked Sine out, so please do not talk to me about equal opportunity offender. When the editor of Charlie Hebdo asked Sinet to apologize, Sinet replied “I’d rather cut my balls off” and he was fired. Wikileaks actually blamed the persecution of Sinet, at the request of a heavily Jewish pro-censorship group, for legitimizing Muslim outrage against the magazine and contributing to the mass murder.

2nd, I do not see Dieudonne as any different from CH. He is a comedian who mocks Judaism in his words "Because every one else in France mocks Islam and Blacks". As a comedian, he has the same right as CH to be a bigot if you are a proponent of Free Speech, CH and Dieudonne are one and the same and I don't personally care for either. What you don't get is that I do not Support Dieudonne's speech, the same way that I do not support CH's cartoons, really you won't find me marching on the streets for either of those 2, what I have been denouncing all along is the Blatant Double Standard. The charges to Dieudonne were brought by the French Interior Minister who is a publicly documented xenophobe who, in his position as minster, has called for the mass expulsion of France's Roma community on an ethnic basis, and, as mayor of the city of Evry, was recorded apparently musing that "more white people" would give "a better image" to the town. No legal sanction however was forthcoming against him. So do not tell me about hate speech and inciting hatred against a particular group. And so you know, i guess in your world, Human Rights Watch has also lost all its credibility since them and other international organizations stated that Banning Dieudonne's shows was wrong and anti-freedom of speech.

From Human Right Watch( written by a descendant of victims of the Holocaust):

Yet a country’s dedication to human rights and democratic values is measured in the way it treats those with whom it disagrees, and in this instance, France has failed that test. France should respect freedom of expression, including those opinions that shock, offend, or disturb – unless they amount to inciting violence. Any restrictions to this freedom must be necessary and proportionate, and banning Dieudonné shows is neither. If there are indeed threats to public order, authorities should deploy enough police officers to deter violence, not ban the show altogether.

And when you repeatedly imply that the only reason Dieudonne was banned was because he simply said "Jews are crooks," and nothing else, as your earlier posts indicate, then you are dishonest.

I never said he was banned for saying "Jews are crooks." I said that he was Fined was making that statement. He was banned because the french government stated that his shows were anti-Semitic.

By the way, when I read some of your earlier contributions in the other thread, I thought you were bringing a useful perspective. I agreed with you that the burka ban is wrong, and defended your position. I also agreed that there is increasing xenophobia in France and Europe, and highlighted that the fact that Front National (Dieudonne is pal of some FN bigots, like Le Pen father, by the way) getting 30% is a problem. But you are now ranting. As someone said, you have lost all credibility and the good will of many people like me who wanted to agree with you and wanted to support your views. You have alienated lots of people here. Of course you can say whatever you want. But you had an opportunity to bring a useful perspective to this forum. You squandered it. I am sure you don't care.

I would think you agreed with some of my earlier contributions based on intellectual honesty and that in no way means that going forward you and I have to see eye to eye on everything. I am not running for office or a popularity contest, so whether you think I am credible or not or need supporters to feel legitimized only lives in your head. I am here to share my thoughts, nothing more , nothing less. When I don't agree with you or anyone else, I will say so, and that is my opinion, just like you are entitled to your own. I think you are wrong on the Dieudonne stance, but that is MY opinion and I will voice it.

I won't be replying to your post anymore, but I am sure you are going to call me an hypocrite and the like. Feel free to do so.

You don't have to respond to any of my posts, we live in a free world where we can debate ideas, disagree, and move on like civilized people do. You demonstrate the very point I have been making all along in your attitude. A disinhibited double standard that only falls back on rhetoric, self-sympathy, and avoids any useful discourse.
If you have any real convictions or principles, do not betray them. Treat all freedom of expression equally. Treat all innocent lives equally.

There. You just drew a line on FREEDOM of speech. Why do you get to draw the line on what is acceptable and unacceptable? Why can I insult, satire and deeply offend billions of Muslims & Christians but I can't do the same to holocaust survivors? Because they're more offended by it? Ridiculous, a complete hypocritical definition of 'freedom of speech! If you are going to have freedom of speech to insult the prophet of Islam, then you do have a right to say anything you want about the Holocaust, no matter how much offense you or anyone else takes with it.

Well, from what I read: "In the Israeli political parties that represent the ultra-Orthodox sector, women are explicitly banned from running for Knesset. In publications and advertisements that serve the sector, female images are completely absent, painting a visual picture of a world that contains only men and boys – and very occasionally, a prepubescent girl. Sometimes, astonishingly, they even refrain from printing women’s names, not just their photographs."

Interesting, never knew this. I guess to each, its own~

In other news, no this did not happen in the Kingdom ....Tagline: you are not alone.

Women out: Ultra-Orthodox Jewish paper edits Merkel out of Paris march

A conservative Jewish newspaper edited a picture of world leaders rallying in anti-extremism solidarity in Paris last week, manipulating female politicians, including one of the most powerful people on the planet, Angela Merkel, out of the picture. The German Chancellor, along with the Mayor of Paris Anne Hidalgo, the EU's high representative for foreign affairs Federica Mogherini and Danish Prime Minister Helle Thorning-Schmidt all vanished from the already famous photograph in the Israeli Haredi "HaMevaser" (The Announcer) paper.

http://rt.com/news/222267-merkel-out-march-paper/

OP, that's a verse revealed in reference to the Battle of Badr, which i a battle Muslims fought at the time. Remember that the Qur'an was revealed for 23 years, and during those 23 years, a lot of things were going on , wars amongst others and the Qur'an addressed the current issues of the time. That verse specifically speaks against the people who were fighting the Muslims. On that same Paragraph, the very next verse states what is the meaning of "And if they incline to peace, then incline to it [also] and rely upon Allah . Indeed, it is He who is the Hearing, the Knowing."

I believe there is an after life. How unfair would this world be if all ended here?

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I love it. Let's leave our countries b/c we're persecuted. Then, let's move to Europe or to the US or to Australia, for example. Let's then try to push our agenda on others by constantly trying to define Islam to the masses b/c the Westerners don't see the true Islam.

ugh

If it's that much trouble, then fix your homeland instead of abandoning it.

Why leave an Islamic nation - where you can practice your religion freely - and enter into a country where you always have to face questions?

You are so deep in cliches, it's unfunny.

First, people leave their countries for all kinds of reasons. It doesn't have to be persecution. You have no idea why her family moved. As long as they did so legally and don't break laws while here, it's beside the point why they moved.

Second, and I feel that this is something you truly don't get. "Islamic" nations (btw, there is no such thing, there are only Muslim-majority countries) have nothing to do with Islam. Defending and explaining Islam has absolutely nothing to do with explaining or justifying the behavior of "Islamic nations". These two are completely unrelated questions. Answering questions about Islam and Muslims has nothing to do with explaining the actions or policy of "Islamic nations." Likewise, she has nothing to do with immigration policies, foreign affairs or internal politics of "Islamic nations." She has zero input into any of this.

Third, in a democracy all kinds of people push all kinds of agendas all the time. Her agenda is no better or worse than yours. She is entitled to as much space in the public discourse as you.

Fourth, Islam in America can be practiced a lot more freely than in many Muslim-majority countries, depending on the kind of Islam.

I agree. Thank you!

Don't thank me, darlin', I'm your Shia/Saudi nemesis. it's not personal.

I will still thank you , despite our differences. I can acknowledge the truth when I see it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Love this guy! Sounds like Biden. Of course, critics will say it isn't PC or that he's missing the point (ie: that it wasn't a protest against freedom).

What irks me about the "religious" Muslims is how the rich and powerful ones love to travel to the US and party like rockstars since they don't have to pretend to follow their religious rules. Ask anyone who works for a high end hotel in NY, DC, Miami, LA or Vegas about Arabs who rent out the fancy suites and entire floors, rack up $100k in room service and party with dozens of prostitutes. Apparently that's cool...as long as they don't draw any cartoons I suppose.

No religion is free of hypocrites.

What irks me is that bigots like you take these anecdotes and judge a whole religion by them.

+1000