Discrimination against Asians

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Across the country, the results are the same. Our analysis of national EEOC workforce data found that Asian American white-collar professionals are the least likely group to be promoted from individual contributor roles into management — less likely than any other race, including blacks and Hispanics. And our analysis found that white professionals are about twice as likely to be promoted into management as their Asian American counterparts."

I agree with this and the reason is because the upbringing and desire to get into TJ and that entire lifestyle does not promote teamwork or collaboration...only individual achievement.

There's a reason why some people aren't promoted into management. While being valuable individual contributors, they aren't seen as team players. Managers and executives need to be well rounded, have a broad view of issues, and be able to communicate and socialize with diverse groups of people. This is not the experience of someone who has prepped to get into TJ since Kindergarten.

This is as bad as saying African Americans don't belong in management because so many of them are uneducated and from the ghetto.

No, not all African Americans are uneducated. No, not all African Americans are from the ghetto. No, not all Asians are unsocial nerds. No, not all Asians go to TJ.

Check your stereotypes and implicit bias.

+1 once again, it's fine to stereotype Asian Americans, but not African Americans.

They don’t think racism against Asians is racism.

I hope my fellow Asians feel some sense of shame for generally supporting a political party that thrives on racism. It's sad that they didn't realize this until these racist policies started affecting Asians.

I guess it depends on what you value in life. If you value equal opportunity and the right to live without being harassed, beaten, or otherwise discriminated against, then you would likely support the Democrats...especially when you compare them to Trump. However, if all you care about is being able to get into an elite school, then go ahead and support Trump. At the end of the day, you'll still be a minority and after you leave your elite high school or college, you'll still be confronted with racism. No, not the same kind of racism that Blacks face but you'll still experience it.

TJ supporters who think the Republican party is a better alternative are very short-sighted. There's more to life than getting into a certain high school or college. You can keep playing the "model minority" game but in the eyes of some people, you will always be the "others".

I guess it would depend on how you define equal opportunity or harassment. If you define opportunity as privileges, then there is no way that can be equal while still maintaining a free society. This is why all societies that try to enforce equal privilege end up being authoritarian and oppressive regimes like North Korea and Venezuela. I don't want to live in such a society. As for harassment, some people regard being offended as being harassed. There is simply no way that anyone can be shielded from being offended. The very nature of a diverse society is that there will be disagreements, and with disagreements comes being offended.

Interesting how you dismissed being harassed with being offended. It must be nice to have the privilege to not recognize that there are segments of the population that are consistently discriminated against, wrongly imprisoned, and even killed. However, if you want to consider that "being offended", then go ahead. I guess since that doesn't happen to Asians very often, you're fine with just ignoring it.

Please, I am not the one having difficulty differentiating between harassment and being offended. Clearly, racist behavior, wrongful imprisonment, and being murdered are not cases of being "offended". The problem is that leftist ideology is pushing the case that being offended is the same as harassment. If someone gives an opinion that is offensive to them in a public space, the left feels that this is the same as harassment. This is why I said "it depends on how you define harassment".

If Asians aren't being killed very often, maybe research the underlying reasons why, rather than criticize us for not being victims of unnatural death at the same rate as others. I care when others are killed, but the left is too busy calling people like me a racist because they like to exploit their victim status rather than find a solution to the problem.

Black people are more likely to be murdered by fellow black people.

Sorry the Asian community isn’t keeping up with killing each other.

I’m pretty sure PP was referring to police brutality and not black on black crime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Across the country, the results are the same. Our analysis of national EEOC workforce data found that Asian American white-collar professionals are the least likely group to be promoted from individual contributor roles into management — less likely than any other race, including blacks and Hispanics. And our analysis found that white professionals are about twice as likely to be promoted into management as their Asian American counterparts."

I agree with this and the reason is because the upbringing and desire to get into TJ and that entire lifestyle does not promote teamwork or collaboration...only individual achievement.

There's a reason why some people aren't promoted into management. While being valuable individual contributors, they aren't seen as team players. Managers and executives need to be well rounded, have a broad view of issues, and be able to communicate and socialize with diverse groups of people. This is not the experience of someone who has prepped to get into TJ since Kindergarten.

+1000

They aren't team players. I still think about the video of the 2-year-old girl hit by a car in China, and people proceeded to walk or cycle by her for 10 minutes ( during which time another car drove over her!) I don't know why people don't want to discuss or admit the difference between Eastern and Western cultures. Saying Asian's don't face racism in America is ridiculous, but attributing all of the challenges or pushback they face to racism is ridiculous. The American workforce values certain qualities - don't get mad at us and shout racism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Across the country, the results are the same. Our analysis of national EEOC workforce data found that Asian American white-collar professionals are the least likely group to be promoted from individual contributor roles into management — less likely than any other race, including blacks and Hispanics. And our analysis found that white professionals are about twice as likely to be promoted into management as their Asian American counterparts."

I agree with this and the reason is because the upbringing and desire to get into TJ and that entire lifestyle does not promote teamwork or collaboration...only individual achievement.

There's a reason why some people aren't promoted into management. While being valuable individual contributors, they aren't seen as team players. Managers and executives need to be well rounded, have a broad view of issues, and be able to communicate and socialize with diverse groups of people. This is not the experience of someone who has prepped to get into TJ since Kindergarten.

+1000

They aren't team players. I still think about the video of the 2-year-old girl hit by a car in China, and people proceeded to walk or cycle by her for 10 minutes ( during which time another car drove over her!) I don't know why people don't want to discuss or admit the difference between Eastern and Western cultures. Saying Asian's don't face racism in America is ridiculous, but attributing all of the challenges or pushback they face to racism is ridiculous. The American workforce values certain qualities - don't get mad at us and shout racism.

The China example above is a bit extra and out of context, and probably didn't need to be brought up. However, my point in the earlier post is that the economy is made up of different people with different skillsets.

1. There are creative, team oriented, marketing people (with an overall world view) who come up with ideas and ways to make money off of them (executives)
2. There are individual contributors who sit at a desk all day and night making that idea come to life (coders)
3. There are people who work with the team to manage the coders (middle managers)
4. And, there are people who make sure they are all fed and have an office to come to (maintenance, janitors, food service, etc.)

My point is that TJ prepares people to live in the #2 category. I have no problem with that but it might explain the point that some people are less likely to be promoted from individual contributor to management. That's not racism...it's just an explanation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The reason TJ admissions is hitting a nerve for Asians is that they believe that STEM is one of the few ways in which they could work hard and excel. They think at least this is fair. Let's face it, they have had trouble being represented in sports (possibly due to genetics). They are not represented in Hollywood (lead roles go to blacks 15% of the time, Asians 1% of the time), or in places of power; politics/governorship/senate/supreme court/cabinet. Although they disproportionately get into top colleges (usually despite discrimination - see what is going on with Harvard and Yale), they face a struggle in career advancement after college.

https://hbr.org/2018/05/asian-americans-are-the-least-likely-group-in-the-u-s-to-be-promoted-to-management

"Across the country, the results are the same. Our analysis of national EEOC workforce data found that Asian American white-collar professionals are the least likely group to be promoted from individual contributor roles into management — less likely than any other race, including blacks and Hispanics. And our analysis found that white professionals are about twice as likely to be promoted into management as their Asian American counterparts.

It is easy to understand why Asian American representation in the workforce may not seem to be an issue. In some key measures, Asian Americans are the most successful U.S. demographic — more highly educated, for example, and with higher median incomes than any other racial group. More significant, Asian Americans are 12% of the professional workforce while making up only 5.6% of the U.S. population. This fact underlies the potential blind spot for many companies: Because Asian Americans are not considered an underrepresented minority, they are given little priority or attention in diversity programs. We have found that in many companies throughout the country, Asian-related programs are geared toward cultural inclusion, not management diversity."

Look around where everyone works. For me at least the entire senior management is White.

TJ is hitting a nerve because society is again trying to screen them out, in the name of racial balance, in a convoluted way. On the contrary, people should be celebrating the fact that the top high school in the United States can be a minority majority. No one would give a hoot if TJ was 70% Black (or even 70% White). It is also true that Asians are a very diverse group of people themselves (Indian, Chinese, etc. are very different). Asians have come to this area b/c it is one of the most straightforward places for good results: Work hard and you will succeed. No need for connections or wealth or bribes. Some families come to the U.S. after experiencing the Tiananmen square massacre, etc. to give their child a chance at a better life. In response to places like Curie, there is no need to paint all Asians as cheaters. There are only a few and will be exposed sooner or later. I don't know if the claims are true, but I suspect many would have probably gotten into TJ anyway. The vast majority are extra motivated (parent and child) because of such traumatic backgrounds despite English being a second/third language. Most of the time, parents cannot force the kids to be good at math and interested in science and be motivated to work that hard. If you have raised a child, you will agree. The children work hard because for some reason they just do or they see their parents work hard (though they never get up to those management positions).

Whatever your view, there is no need to attack Asians. Come at it with a bit more understanding.

You clearly don't work at IT in Freddie Mac or Fannie Mae which have both become little Bangalore in Virginia due to Indian racist bodyshops. African Americans have been driven out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Across the country, the results are the same. Our analysis of national EEOC workforce data found that Asian American white-collar professionals are the least likely group to be promoted from individual contributor roles into management — less likely than any other race, including blacks and Hispanics. And our analysis found that white professionals are about twice as likely to be promoted into management as their Asian American counterparts."

I agree with this and the reason is because the upbringing and desire to get into TJ and that entire lifestyle does not promote teamwork or collaboration...only individual achievement.

There's a reason why some people aren't promoted into management. While being valuable individual contributors, they aren't seen as team players. Managers and executives need to be well rounded, have a broad view of issues, and be able to communicate and socialize with diverse groups of people. This is not the experience of someone who has prepped to get into TJ since Kindergarten.

This is as bad as saying African Americans don't belong in management because so many of them are uneducated and from the ghetto.

No, not all African Americans are uneducated. No, not all African Americans are from the ghetto. No, not all Asians are unsocial nerds. No, not all Asians go to TJ.

Check your stereotypes and implicit bias.

+1 once again, it's fine to stereotype Asian Americans, but not African Americans.

They don’t think racism against Asians is racism.

I hope my fellow Asians feel some sense of shame for generally supporting a political party that thrives on racism. It's sad that they didn't realize this until these racist policies started affecting Asians.

I guess it depends on what you value in life. If you value equal opportunity and the right to live without being harassed, beaten, or otherwise discriminated against, then you would likely support the Democrats...especially when you compare them to Trump. However, if all you care about is being able to get into an elite school, then go ahead and support Trump. At the end of the day, you'll still be a minority and after you leave your elite high school or college, you'll still be confronted with racism. No, not the same kind of racism that Blacks face but you'll still experience it.

TJ supporters who think the Republican party is a better alternative are very short-sighted. There's more to life than getting into a certain high school or college. You can keep playing the "model minority" game but in the eyes of some people, you will always be the "others".

I guess it would depend on how you define equal opportunity or harassment. If you define opportunity as privileges, then there is no way that can be equal while still maintaining a free society. This is why all societies that try to enforce equal privilege end up being authoritarian and oppressive regimes like North Korea and Venezuela. I don't want to live in such a society. As for harassment, some people regard being offended as being harassed. There is simply no way that anyone can be shielded from being offended. The very nature of a diverse society is that there will be disagreements, and with disagreements comes being offended.

Interesting how you dismissed being harassed with being offended. It must be nice to have the privilege to not recognize that there are segments of the population that are consistently discriminated against, wrongly imprisoned, and even killed. However, if you want to consider that "being offended", then go ahead. I guess since that doesn't happen to Asians very often, you're fine with just ignoring it.

Please, I am not the one having difficulty differentiating between harassment and being offended. Clearly, racist behavior, wrongful imprisonment, and being murdered are not cases of being "offended". The problem is that leftist ideology is pushing the case that being offended is the same as harassment. If someone gives an opinion that is offensive to them in a public space, the left feels that this is the same as harassment. This is why I said "it depends on how you define harassment".

If Asians aren't being killed very often, maybe research the underlying reasons why, rather than criticize us for not being victims of unnatural death at the same rate as others. I care when others are killed, but the left is too busy calling people like me a racist because they like to exploit their victim status rather than find a solution to the problem.

Black people are more likely to be murdered by fellow black people.

Sorry the Asian community isn’t keeping up with killing each other.

I’m pretty sure PP was referring to police brutality and not black on black crime.

Okay, so Asians should be doing more of the things that result in police killing of Asians... got it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason TJ admissions is hitting a nerve for Asians is that they believe that STEM is one of the few ways in which they could work hard and excel. They think at least this is fair. Let's face it, they have had trouble being represented in sports (possibly due to genetics). They are not represented in Hollywood (lead roles go to blacks 15% of the time, Asians 1% of the time), or in places of power; politics/governorship/senate/supreme court/cabinet. Although they disproportionately get into top colleges (usually despite discrimination - see what is going on with Harvard and Yale), they face a struggle in career advancement after college.

https://hbr.org/2018/05/asian-americans-are-the-least-likely-group-in-the-u-s-to-be-promoted-to-management

"Across the country, the results are the same. Our analysis of national EEOC workforce data found that Asian American white-collar professionals are the least likely group to be promoted from individual contributor roles into management — less likely than any other race, including blacks and Hispanics. And our analysis found that white professionals are about twice as likely to be promoted into management as their Asian American counterparts.

It is easy to understand why Asian American representation in the workforce may not seem to be an issue. In some key measures, Asian Americans are the most successful U.S. demographic — more highly educated, for example, and with higher median incomes than any other racial group. More significant, Asian Americans are 12% of the professional workforce while making up only 5.6% of the U.S. population. This fact underlies the potential blind spot for many companies: Because Asian Americans are not considered an underrepresented minority, they are given little priority or attention in diversity programs. We have found that in many companies throughout the country, Asian-related programs are geared toward cultural inclusion, not management diversity."

Look around where everyone works. For me at least the entire senior management is White.

TJ is hitting a nerve because society is again trying to screen them out, in the name of racial balance, in a convoluted way. On the contrary, people should be celebrating the fact that the top high school in the United States can be a minority majority. No one would give a hoot if TJ was 70% Black (or even 70% White). It is also true that Asians are a very diverse group of people themselves (Indian, Chinese, etc. are very different). Asians have come to this area b/c it is one of the most straightforward places for good results: Work hard and you will succeed. No need for connections or wealth or bribes. Some families come to the U.S. after experiencing the Tiananmen square massacre, etc. to give their child a chance at a better life. In response to places like Curie, there is no need to paint all Asians as cheaters. There are only a few and will be exposed sooner or later. I don't know if the claims are true, but I suspect many would have probably gotten into TJ anyway. The vast majority are extra motivated (parent and child) because of such traumatic backgrounds despite English being a second/third language. Most of the time, parents cannot force the kids to be good at math and interested in science and be motivated to work that hard. If you have raised a child, you will agree. The children work hard because for some reason they just do or they see their parents work hard (though they never get up to those management positions).

Whatever your view, there is no need to attack Asians. Come at it with a bit more understanding.

You clearly don't work at IT in Freddie Mac or Fannie Mae which have both become little Bangalore in Virginia due to Indian racist bodyshops. African Americans have been driven out.

The CEOs of both Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae are both WHITE MALES.

The leadership team of Freddie Mac consisting of President and multiple Vice Presidents are all WHITE.

The leadership team of Fannie Mae consist of mostly WHITE leaders and 2 BLACK leaders.

Not a single Indian on there for a company you are blaming Indians for working at and blaming Indians for the lack of Black people.

Why aren’t you berating the BLACK and WHITE people that run the companies and make $$$$$ off the backs of cheap Indian labor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason TJ admissions is hitting a nerve for Asians is that they believe that STEM is one of the few ways in which they could work hard and excel. They think at least this is fair. Let's face it, they have had trouble being represented in sports (possibly due to genetics). They are not represented in Hollywood (lead roles go to blacks 15% of the time, Asians 1% of the time), or in places of power; politics/governorship/senate/supreme court/cabinet. Although they disproportionately get into top colleges (usually despite discrimination - see what is going on with Harvard and Yale), they face a struggle in career advancement after college.

https://hbr.org/2018/05/asian-americans-are-the-least-likely-group-in-the-u-s-to-be-promoted-to-management

"Across the country, the results are the same. Our analysis of national EEOC workforce data found that Asian American white-collar professionals are the least likely group to be promoted from individual contributor roles into management — less likely than any other race, including blacks and Hispanics. And our analysis found that white professionals are about twice as likely to be promoted into management as their Asian American counterparts.

It is easy to understand why Asian American representation in the workforce may not seem to be an issue. In some key measures, Asian Americans are the most successful U.S. demographic — more highly educated, for example, and with higher median incomes than any other racial group. More significant, Asian Americans are 12% of the professional workforce while making up only 5.6% of the U.S. population. This fact underlies the potential blind spot for many companies: Because Asian Americans are not considered an underrepresented minority, they are given little priority or attention in diversity programs. We have found that in many companies throughout the country, Asian-related programs are geared toward cultural inclusion, not management diversity."

Look around where everyone works. For me at least the entire senior management is White.

TJ is hitting a nerve because society is again trying to screen them out, in the name of racial balance, in a convoluted way. On the contrary, people should be celebrating the fact that the top high school in the United States can be a minority majority. No one would give a hoot if TJ was 70% Black (or even 70% White). It is also true that Asians are a very diverse group of people themselves (Indian, Chinese, etc. are very different). Asians have come to this area b/c it is one of the most straightforward places for good results: Work hard and you will succeed. No need for connections or wealth or bribes. Some families come to the U.S. after experiencing the Tiananmen square massacre, etc. to give their child a chance at a better life. In response to places like Curie, there is no need to paint all Asians as cheaters. There are only a few and will be exposed sooner or later. I don't know if the claims are true, but I suspect many would have probably gotten into TJ anyway. The vast majority are extra motivated (parent and child) because of such traumatic backgrounds despite English being a second/third language. Most of the time, parents cannot force the kids to be good at math and interested in science and be motivated to work that hard. If you have raised a child, you will agree. The children work hard because for some reason they just do or they see their parents work hard (though they never get up to those management positions).

Whatever your view, there is no need to attack Asians. Come at it with a bit more understanding.

You clearly don't work at IT in Freddie Mac or Fannie Mae which have both become little Bangalore in Virginia due to Indian racist bodyshops. African Americans have been driven out.

The CEOs of both Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae are both WHITE MALES.

The leadership team of Freddie Mac consisting of President and multiple Vice Presidents are all WHITE.

The leadership team of Fannie Mae consist of mostly WHITE leaders and 2 BLACK leaders.

Not a single Indian on there for a company you are blaming Indians for working at and blaming Indians for the lack of Black people.

Why aren’t you berating the BLACK and WHITE people that run the companies and make $$$$$ off the backs of cheap Indian labor.

+1 The decisions to offshore or bring in cheaper labor are not made by Indians, but by the largely white (and male) execs. This is the same scenario played out all across the country, including our "illustrious" POTUS, who by the way, only bringing white foreign labor.

The ^PP is barking up the wrong tree.

-signed Asian Am. IT worker who used to work in SV for 10 years

And I'll state again, the lawsuit by DOJ about racial discrimination in these elite colleges and magnet programs is not being fair to Asian Americans. If they truly cared about merit and fairness, they'd demand that these elite colleges stop giving preference for money, legacy and athletes as well. But they won't ever do that because legacy and/or money is the only way their children are able to get into these colleges.

[Anonymous]

^pardon typo/grammar. Keyboard sucks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Across the country, the results are the same. Our analysis of national EEOC workforce data found that Asian American white-collar professionals are the least likely group to be promoted from individual contributor roles into management — less likely than any other race, including blacks and Hispanics. And our analysis found that white professionals are about twice as likely to be promoted into management as their Asian American counterparts."

I agree with this and the reason is because the upbringing and desire to get into TJ and that entire lifestyle does not promote teamwork or collaboration...only individual achievement.

There's a reason why some people aren't promoted into management. While being valuable individual contributors, they aren't seen as team players. Managers and executives need to be well rounded, have a broad view of issues, and be able to communicate and socialize with diverse groups of people. This is not the experience of someone who has prepped to get into TJ since Kindergarten.

+1000

They aren't team players. I still think about the video of the 2-year-old girl hit by a car in China, and people proceeded to walk or cycle by her for 10 minutes ( during which time another car drove over her!) I don't know why people don't want to discuss or admit the difference between Eastern and Western cultures. Saying Asian's don't face racism in America is ridiculous, but attributing all of the challenges or pushback they face to racism is ridiculous. The American workforce values certain qualities - don't get mad at us and shout racism.

Right diagnosis but this is the wrong example. The laws in China are such that innocent bystanders can be found liable if they come in contact with someone who is injured and the injured person claims that the helper is the one who actually injured him/her. For this reason, people in China generally will not help the injured on the road. Even a 2 year old child is not "safe" for the bystander to help because young children are often stolen and used for scams like this, especially girls.

Getting back to Chinese people in general, we are not a cooperative bunch. People in the cities look down on people from the country, and people in the four main cities look down on people from other cities. People who speak Shanghainese and Cantonese look down on mandarin-only speakers. Southern Chinese look down on Northern Chinese. Men look down on Women. Office workers look down on craftsmen and day laborers. Everyone is continuously assessing where they fit in on the social ladder and pass down the abuse they receive from people above to the people below them. The most famous classical literature from China focus on competition and trickery, not cooperation. Reading "the three waring nations", we learn that alliances are weak and that there is trechery and betrayal at every turn. Reading "shuihu" we learn that individuals can achieve great things and be admitted to a clan of superhero who mostly do their own thing - and when they were organized into an army, they faced betrayal and was ultimately disbanded.

When two Chinese people meet each other in the US, the first thing they do is ask what part of China they are originally from and what neighborhood they live in now. They are assessing where they fit in relative to each other on the social ladder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Across the country, the results are the same. Our analysis of national EEOC workforce data found that Asian American white-collar professionals are the least likely group to be promoted from individual contributor roles into management — less likely than any other race, including blacks and Hispanics. And our analysis found that white professionals are about twice as likely to be promoted into management as their Asian American counterparts."

I agree with this and the reason is because the upbringing and desire to get into TJ and that entire lifestyle does not promote teamwork or collaboration...only individual achievement.

There's a reason why some people aren't promoted into management. While being valuable individual contributors, they aren't seen as team players. Managers and executives need to be well rounded, have a broad view of issues, and be able to communicate and socialize with diverse groups of people. This is not the experience of someone who has prepped to get into TJ since Kindergarten.

+1000

They aren't team players. I still think about the video of the 2-year-old girl hit by a car in China, and people proceeded to walk or cycle by her for 10 minutes ( during which time another car drove over her!) I don't know why people don't want to discuss or admit the difference between Eastern and Western cultures. Saying Asian's don't face racism in America is ridiculous, but attributing all of the challenges or pushback they face to racism is ridiculous. The American workforce values certain qualities - don't get mad at us and shout racism.

Right diagnosis but this is the wrong example. The laws in China are such that innocent bystanders can be found liable if they come in contact with someone who is injured and the injured person claims that the helper is the one who actually injured him/her. For this reason, people in China generally will not help the injured on the road. Even a 2 year old child is not "safe" for the bystander to help because young children are often stolen and used for scams like this, especially girls.

Getting back to Chinese people in general, we are not a cooperative bunch. People in the cities look down on people from the country, and people in the four main cities look down on people from other cities. People who speak Shanghainese and Cantonese look down on mandarin-only speakers. Southern Chinese look down on Northern Chinese. Men look down on Women. Office workers look down on craftsmen and day laborers. Everyone is continuously assessing where they fit in on the social ladder and pass down the abuse they receive from people above to the people below them. The most famous classical literature from China focus on competition and trickery, not cooperation. Reading "the three waring nations", we learn that alliances are weak and that there is trechery and betrayal at every turn. Reading "shuihu" we learn that individuals can achieve great things and be admitted to a clan of superhero who mostly do their own thing - and when they were organized into an army, they faced betrayal and was ultimately disbanded.

When two Chinese people meet each other in the US, the first thing they do is ask what part of China they are originally from and what neighborhood they live in now. They are assessing where they fit in relative to each other on the social ladder.

Thank you for the background. This really helps me to understand the Chinese culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
When two Chinese people meet each other in the US, the first thing they do is ask what part of China they are originally from and what neighborhood they live in now. They are assessing where they fit in relative to each other on the social ladder.

Thank you! My grandparents were immigrants from China and I enjoyed this perspective.
My experience:
My grandparents kept close touch with the homeland.
My parents, born here, went the other extreme - wanted to whitewash their culture.
My generation, sensing this loss, tried everything to rebuild this lost link.
My kids don't care

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Across the country, the results are the same. Our analysis of national EEOC workforce data found that Asian American white-collar professionals are the least likely group to be promoted from individual contributor roles into management — less likely than any other race, including blacks and Hispanics. And our analysis found that white professionals are about twice as likely to be promoted into management as their Asian American counterparts."

I agree with this and the reason is because the upbringing and desire to get into TJ and that entire lifestyle does not promote teamwork or collaboration...only individual achievement.

There's a reason why some people aren't promoted into management. While being valuable individual contributors, they aren't seen as team players. Managers and executives need to be well rounded, have a broad view of issues, and be able to communicate and socialize with diverse groups of people. This is not the experience of someone who has prepped to get into TJ since Kindergarten.

+1000

They aren't team players. I still think about the video of the 2-year-old girl hit by a car in China, and people proceeded to walk or cycle by her for 10 minutes ( during which time another car drove over her!) I don't know why people don't want to discuss or admit the difference between Eastern and Western cultures. Saying Asian's don't face racism in America is ridiculous, but attributing all of the challenges or pushback they face to racism is ridiculous. The American workforce values certain qualities - don't get mad at us and shout racism.

So asian american or eastern culture = Chinese?
That generalization never seems to go away.
Many of us come from diverse backgrounds, and fwiw when this car incident became known on the internet it absolutely horrified many in my home country.
Don't make general & automatic assumptions of people just because they look similar to you, it only creates more division.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason TJ admissions is hitting a nerve for Asians is that they believe that STEM is one of the few ways in which they could work hard and excel. They think at least this is fair. Let's face it, they have had trouble being represented in sports (possibly due to genetics). They are not represented in Hollywood (lead roles go to blacks 15% of the time, Asians 1% of the time), or in places of power; politics/governorship/senate/supreme court/cabinet. Although they disproportionately get into top colleges (usually despite discrimination - see what is going on with Harvard and Yale), they face a struggle in career advancement after college.

https://hbr.org/2018/05/asian-americans-are-the-least-likely-group-in-the-u-s-to-be-promoted-to-management

"Across the country, the results are the same. Our analysis of national EEOC workforce data found that Asian American white-collar professionals are the least likely group to be promoted from individual contributor roles into management — less likely than any other race, including blacks and Hispanics. And our analysis found that white professionals are about twice as likely to be promoted into management as their Asian American counterparts.

It is easy to understand why Asian American representation in the workforce may not seem to be an issue. In some key measures, Asian Americans are the most successful U.S. demographic — more highly educated, for example, and with higher median incomes than any other racial group. More significant, Asian Americans are 12% of the professional workforce while making up only 5.6% of the U.S. population. This fact underlies the potential blind spot for many companies: Because Asian Americans are not considered an underrepresented minority, they are given little priority or attention in diversity programs. We have found that in many companies throughout the country, Asian-related programs are geared toward cultural inclusion, not management diversity."

Look around where everyone works. For me at least the entire senior management is White.

TJ is hitting a nerve because society is again trying to screen them out, in the name of racial balance, in a convoluted way. On the contrary, people should be celebrating the fact that the top high school in the United States can be a minority majority. No one would give a hoot if TJ was 70% Black (or even 70% White). It is also true that Asians are a very diverse group of people themselves (Indian, Chinese, etc. are very different). Asians have come to this area b/c it is one of the most straightforward places for good results: Work hard and you will succeed. No need for connections or wealth or bribes. Some families come to the U.S. after experiencing the Tiananmen square massacre, etc. to give their child a chance at a better life. In response to places like Curie, there is no need to paint all Asians as cheaters. There are only a few and will be exposed sooner or later. I don't know if the claims are true, but I suspect many would have probably gotten into TJ anyway. The vast majority are extra motivated (parent and child) because of such traumatic backgrounds despite English being a second/third language. Most of the time, parents cannot force the kids to be good at math and interested in science and be motivated to work that hard. If you have raised a child, you will agree. The children work hard because for some reason they just do or they see their parents work hard (though they never get up to those management positions).

Whatever your view, there is no need to attack Asians. Come at it with a bit more understanding.

You clearly don't work at IT in Freddie Mac or Fannie Mae which have both become little Bangalore in Virginia due to Indian racist bodyshops. African Americans have been driven out.

The CEOs of both Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae are both WHITE MALES.

The leadership team of Freddie Mac consisting of President and multiple Vice Presidents are all WHITE.

The leadership team of Fannie Mae consist of mostly WHITE leaders and 2 BLACK leaders.

Not a single Indian on there for a company you are blaming Indians for working at and blaming Indians for the lack of Black people.

Why aren’t you berating the BLACK and WHITE people that run the companies and make $$$$$ off the backs of cheap Indian labor.

The black and white people are not racist. TATA only hires Indians. no African Americans.

"We live in a casteist, Hindu Nationalist State. We are very far away from the day when statues like these will be removed or pulled down. We are at the stage when they are being installed and celebrated. And sadly, even people who were once part of radical movements like the Dalit Panthers have joined hands with these new Rulers. The uprising we are seeing in the US today is the result of years of organizing, fighting, memorializing, of poetry, art, music, literature that has made the story of African Americans told by themselves, a living breathing presence that a new generation of Americans across the racial divide feel shame and fury about. This display of solidarity is an amazing thing."

https://www.dalitcamera.com/indian-racism-towards-black-people-is-almost-worse-than-white-peoples-racism/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason TJ admissions is hitting a nerve for Asians is that they believe that STEM is one of the few ways in which they could work hard and excel. They think at least this is fair. Let's face it, they have had trouble being represented in sports (possibly due to genetics). They are not represented in Hollywood (lead roles go to blacks 15% of the time, Asians 1% of the time), or in places of power; politics/governorship/senate/supreme court/cabinet. Although they disproportionately get into top colleges (usually despite discrimination - see what is going on with Harvard and Yale), they face a struggle in career advancement after college.

https://hbr.org/2018/05/asian-americans-are-the-least-likely-group-in-the-u-s-to-be-promoted-to-management

"Across the country, the results are the same. Our analysis of national EEOC workforce data found that Asian American white-collar professionals are the least likely group to be promoted from individual contributor roles into management — less likely than any other race, including blacks and Hispanics. And our analysis found that white professionals are about twice as likely to be promoted into management as their Asian American counterparts.

It is easy to understand why Asian American representation in the workforce may not seem to be an issue. In some key measures, Asian Americans are the most successful U.S. demographic — more highly educated, for example, and with higher median incomes than any other racial group. More significant, Asian Americans are 12% of the professional workforce while making up only 5.6% of the U.S. population. This fact underlies the potential blind spot for many companies: Because Asian Americans are not considered an underrepresented minority, they are given little priority or attention in diversity programs. We have found that in many companies throughout the country, Asian-related programs are geared toward cultural inclusion, not management diversity."

Look around where everyone works. For me at least the entire senior management is White.

TJ is hitting a nerve because society is again trying to screen them out, in the name of racial balance, in a convoluted way. On the contrary, people should be celebrating the fact that the top high school in the United States can be a minority majority. No one would give a hoot if TJ was 70% Black (or even 70% White). It is also true that Asians are a very diverse group of people themselves (Indian, Chinese, etc. are very different). Asians have come to this area b/c it is one of the most straightforward places for good results: Work hard and you will succeed. No need for connections or wealth or bribes. Some families come to the U.S. after experiencing the Tiananmen square massacre, etc. to give their child a chance at a better life. In response to places like Curie, there is no need to paint all Asians as cheaters. There are only a few and will be exposed sooner or later. I don't know if the claims are true, but I suspect many would have probably gotten into TJ anyway. The vast majority are extra motivated (parent and child) because of such traumatic backgrounds despite English being a second/third language. Most of the time, parents cannot force the kids to be good at math and interested in science and be motivated to work that hard. If you have raised a child, you will agree. The children work hard because for some reason they just do or they see their parents work hard (though they never get up to those management positions).

Whatever your view, there is no need to attack Asians. Come at it with a bit more understanding.

You clearly don't work at IT in Freddie Mac or Fannie Mae which have both become little Bangalore in Virginia due to Indian racist bodyshops. African Americans have been driven out.

The CEOs of both Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae are both WHITE MALES.

The leadership team of Freddie Mac consisting of President and multiple Vice Presidents are all WHITE.

The leadership team of Fannie Mae consist of mostly WHITE leaders and 2 BLACK leaders.

Not a single Indian on there for a company you are blaming Indians for working at and blaming Indians for the lack of Black people.

Why aren’t you berating the BLACK and WHITE people that run the companies and make $$$$$ off the backs of cheap Indian labor.

The black and white people are not racist. TATA only hires Indians. no African Americans.

"We live in a casteist, Hindu Nationalist State. We are very far away from the day when statues like these will be removed or pulled down. We are at the stage when they are being installed and celebrated. And sadly, even people who were once part of radical movements like the Dalit Panthers have joined hands with these new Rulers. The uprising we are seeing in the US today is the result of years of organizing, fighting, memorializing, of poetry, art, music, literature that has made the story of African Americans told by themselves, a living breathing presence that a new generation of Americans across the racial divide feel shame and fury about. This display of solidarity is an amazing thing."

https://www.dalitcamera.com/indian-racism-towards-black-people-is-almost-worse-than-white-peoples-racism/

There are xenophobes in all cultures. Uganda expelled its ENTIRE Indian population with 90 days notice. In Africa - early 2002, internationally renowned playwright and composer, Mbongeni Ngema released an inflammatory anti-Indian song, AmaiNiya, in the Zulu language in which he called for “strong and brave men to confront Indians … Whites were far better than Indians". There are racists in India, just as there are racists everywhere.

The point is, please don't assume that an entire population is represented by its worst people. That would be the worst kind of racism, and that's what I see in your post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Across the country, the results are the same. Our analysis of national EEOC workforce data found that Asian American white-collar professionals are the least likely group to be promoted from individual contributor roles into management — less likely than any other race, including blacks and Hispanics. And our analysis found that white professionals are about twice as likely to be promoted into management as their Asian American counterparts."

I agree with this and the reason is because the upbringing and desire to get into TJ and that entire lifestyle does not promote teamwork or collaboration...only individual achievement.

There's a reason why some people aren't promoted into management. While being valuable individual contributors, they aren't seen as team players. Managers and executives need to be well rounded, have a broad view of issues, and be able to communicate and socialize with diverse groups of people. This is not the experience of someone who has prepped to get into TJ since Kindergarten.

+1000

They aren't team players. I still think about the video of the 2-year-old girl hit by a car in China, and people proceeded to walk or cycle by her for 10 minutes ( during which time another car drove over her!) I don't know why people don't want to discuss or admit the difference between Eastern and Western cultures. Saying Asian's don't face racism in America is ridiculous, but attributing all of the challenges or pushback they face to racism is ridiculous. The American workforce values certain qualities - don't get mad at us and shout racism.

Right diagnosis but this is the wrong example. The laws in China are such that innocent bystanders can be found liable if they come in contact with someone who is injured and the injured person claims that the helper is the one who actually injured him/her. For this reason, people in China generally will not help the injured on the road. Even a 2 year old child is not "safe" for the bystander to help because young children are often stolen and used for scams like this, especially girls.

Getting back to Chinese people in general, we are not a cooperative bunch. People in the cities look down on people from the country, and people in the four main cities look down on people from other cities. People who speak Shanghainese and Cantonese look down on mandarin-only speakers. Southern Chinese look down on Northern Chinese. Men look down on Women. Office workers look down on craftsmen and day laborers. Everyone is continuously assessing where they fit in on the social ladder and pass down the abuse they receive from people above to the people below them. The most famous classical literature from China focus on competition and trickery, not cooperation. Reading "the three waring nations", we learn that alliances are weak and that there is trechery and betrayal at every turn. Reading "shuihu" we learn that individuals can achieve great things and be admitted to a clan of superhero who mostly do their own thing - and when they were organized into an army, they faced betrayal and was ultimately disbanded.

When two Chinese people meet each other in the US, the first thing they do is ask what part of China they are originally from and what neighborhood they live in now. They are assessing where they fit in relative to each other on the social ladder.

Jesus, I hope this is far from true. It sounds like most Chinese people are horrible human beings.