DC data on learning loss

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No one is pro-DL. People are making the best of a bad situation and want all teachers vaccinated before returning. And some families need the parents vaccinated before their kids return.

Homeschool teaching really only needs a few hours a day but school is 6 hours a day. A lot of school is get in line, cut this paper and wait while kids cut the paper, read in your small groups, etc. Direct instruction is not a lot of time.

DL still sucks but in a pandemic its the best option.

My teachers walk or bike to school. My teachers have walked or biked to see our kids from a distance.

Wishful thinking. Teachers want distance learning to continue forever because they like the lifestyle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mean, did you read that one thread with Mom McChores who, to provide her child with the socialization that the daughter was missing, encouraged the daughter to call stores and complain?

That was REAL. That was an actual person who thought that was a good idea.

I think. Who knows, anymore, though.

I want schools to open, but I thought that was a brilliant suggestion

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No one is pro-DL. People are making the best of a bad situation and want all teachers vaccinated before returning. And some families need the parents vaccinated before their kids return.

Homeschool teaching really only needs a few hours a day but school is 6 hours a day. A lot of school is get in line, cut this paper and wait while kids cut the paper, read in your small groups, etc. Direct instruction is not a lot of time.

DL still sucks but in a pandemic its the best option.

My teachers walk or bike to school. My teachers have walked or biked to see our kids from a distance.

Virtual learning is "cut this paper and wait while kids cut the paper, read in your small groups, etc." Only now it's for 1/4th of the time it used to be and the teacher can't even tell if they're cutting the paper correctly. It's insanity. And, no, even in a pandemic, only DL is not the best option. Basically the entire developed world agrees with me... except for those responsible for most large metro areas (though not the largest!) in the US. I'm not saying that an 8 week shutdown w/ DL only over the Dec-Jan period (a la some private schools and the UK) or over defined periods of time to get spikes under control (like much of Europe) might not have been the "best option" given the pandemic, but that would have been in the context of IPL in August-November, etc. Open in person schools should be the default and heavy favorite and specific conditions should have to overcome that presumption for defined periods of time. The status quo is lunacy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is pro-DL. People are making the best of a bad situation and want all teachers vaccinated before returning. And some families need the parents vaccinated before their kids return.

Homeschool teaching really only needs a few hours a day but school is 6 hours a day. A lot of school is get in line, cut this paper and wait while kids cut the paper, read in your small groups, etc. Direct instruction is not a lot of time.

DL still sucks but in a pandemic its the best option.

My teachers walk or bike to school. My teachers have walked or biked to see our kids from a distance.

Wishful thinking. Teachers want distance learning to continue forever because they like the lifestyle.

I mean, I know several teachers that hate DL because they find it joyless, awful, and more work than being in person. They actually care about their students and hate that they aren't learning at pace. Of course, they are all also eager to get vaccinated and go in person. So I think that yes, perhaps there are some teachers who just like being at home, but I don't know if they make up the majority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is pro-DL. People are making the best of a bad situation and want all teachers vaccinated before returning. And some families need the parents vaccinated before their kids return.

Homeschool teaching really only needs a few hours a day but school is 6 hours a day. A lot of school is get in line, cut this paper and wait while kids cut the paper, read in your small groups, etc. Direct instruction is not a lot of time.

DL still sucks but in a pandemic its the best option.

My teachers walk or bike to school. My teachers have walked or biked to see our kids from a distance.

Wishful thinking. Teachers want distance learning to continue forever because they like the lifestyle.

I mean, I know several teachers that hate DL because they find it joyless, awful, and more work than being in person. They actually care about their students and hate that they aren't learning at pace. Of course, they are all also eager to get vaccinated and go in person. So I think that yes, perhaps there are some teachers who just like being at home, but I don't know if they make up the majority.

Totally agree. I think one of the big issues will be that bad, unhappy teachers in failing schools with crappy leadership and facilities will fight tooth and nail to stay at home as long as they can, whereas good, generally content teachers in decent schools with competent leadership and adequate facilities will largely prefer to go back once they're vaccinated and certainly once their family members are vaccinated and/or as the return to "normalish" life becomes, well, normalized. This will mean that the kids in Ward 7 and 8 schools, already at a massive disadvantage in many, many ways will now be even more disadvantaged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’d think the health of our kids would be more important than some percentage points.

People, it’s a pandemic. Who cares about test scores?? I just want my kids to live and not have adverse long term side effects.

Not being able to read is much more likely to cause adverse long term side effects for the average child than Covid-19.

Newsflash: these problems existed before the pandemic (just look at the data from beforehand). What were all you “reopen the schools for the sake of the poor minority children” folks saying then? What were you doing about it?

Nothing. Absolutely nothing. So my issue is the majority of people crying about “learning loss” don’t actually care, they’re just using Black and Brown people as a tool in their game.

This is the most bizarre argument: "You didn't care before so you can't care now."

Look, I understand that the point may be that white people are being disingenuous about their concern for brown and Black kids. That's real. But maybe also they are starting to care, because they are being presented with data like this?

OK, I'l bite. I'm a white parent and I care - albeit for selfish reasons.

My kids are doing fine academically then and now in public schools, but next year, do you think they will elevate the curriculum to keep the kids on their grade level curriculum or spend much of the time remediating the learning loss of non-white students?

We will continue with math and reading tutors for the next few years to keep my elementary kids challenged.

I agree that this is likely to happen (teachers will have to lower curriculum or spend more time in remediation of students). That definitely has ramifications for the kids that are not falling behind in DL (or who might even be speeding up).

I'll also be getting my kid extra tutoring for the foreseeable future, for this reason.

But also: This does suggest that parents with resources have a direct reason to advocate for more funding of their public schools. I mean, they might just take that money and use it on private tutors, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is pro-DL. People are making the best of a bad situation and want all teachers vaccinated before returning. And some families need the parents vaccinated before their kids return.

Homeschool teaching really only needs a few hours a day but school is 6 hours a day. A lot of school is get in line, cut this paper and wait while kids cut the paper, read in your small groups, etc. Direct instruction is not a lot of time.

DL still sucks but in a pandemic its the best option.

My teachers walk or bike to school. My teachers have walked or biked to see our kids from a distance.

Wishful thinking. Teachers want distance learning to continue forever because they like the lifestyle.

I mean, I know several teachers that hate DL because they find it joyless, awful, and more work than being in person. They actually care about their students and hate that they aren't learning at pace. Of course, they are all also eager to get vaccinated and go in person. So I think that yes, perhaps there are some teachers who just like being at home, but I don't know if they make up the majority.

Totally agree. I think one of the big issues will be that bad, unhappy teachers in failing schools with crappy leadership and facilities will fight tooth and nail to stay at home as long as they can, whereas good, generally content teachers in decent schools with competent leadership and adequate facilities will largely prefer to go back once they're vaccinated and certainly once their family members are vaccinated and/or as the return to "normalish" life becomes, well, normalized. This will mean that the kids in Ward 7 and 8 schools, already at a massive disadvantage in many, many ways will now be even more disadvantaged.

ALL schools in DC are lavishly funded compared to schools in most of the rest of the country. Schools are far more decrepit in NYC or Chicago, and they managed to open.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is pro-DL. People are making the best of a bad situation and want all teachers vaccinated before returning. And some families need the parents vaccinated before their kids return.

Homeschool teaching really only needs a few hours a day but school is 6 hours a day. A lot of school is get in line, cut this paper and wait while kids cut the paper, read in your small groups, etc. Direct instruction is not a lot of time.

DL still sucks but in a pandemic its the best option.

My teachers walk or bike to school. My teachers have walked or biked to see our kids from a distance.

Virtual learning is "cut this paper and wait while kids cut the paper, read in your small groups, etc." Only now it's for 1/4th of the time it used to be and the teacher can't even tell if they're cutting the paper correctly. It's insanity. And, no, even in a pandemic, only DL is not the best option. Basically the entire developed world agrees with me... except for those responsible for most large metro areas (though not the largest!) in the US. I'm not saying that an 8 week shutdown w/ DL only over the Dec-Jan period (a la some private schools and the UK) or over defined periods of time to get spikes under control (like much of Europe) might not have been the "best option" given the pandemic, but that would have been in the context of IPL in August-November, etc. Open in person schools should be the default and heavy favorite and specific conditions should have to overcome that presumption for defined periods of time. The status quo is lunacy.

This. Well said. The problem here is that it is very hard to break the status quo. Much of the US got this wrong from the start and now we are stuck with an insane situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is pro-DL. People are making the best of a bad situation and want all teachers vaccinated before returning. And some families need the parents vaccinated before their kids return.

Homeschool teaching really only needs a few hours a day but school is 6 hours a day. A lot of school is get in line, cut this paper and wait while kids cut the paper, read in your small groups, etc. Direct instruction is not a lot of time.

DL still sucks but in a pandemic its the best option.

My teachers walk or bike to school. My teachers have walked or biked to see our kids from a distance.

Virtual learning is "cut this paper and wait while kids cut the paper, read in your small groups, etc." Only now it's for 1/4th of the time it used to be and the teacher can't even tell if they're cutting the paper correctly. It's insanity. And, no, even in a pandemic, only DL is not the best option. Basically the entire developed world agrees with me... except for those responsible for most large metro areas (though not the largest!) in the US. I'm not saying that an 8 week shutdown w/ DL only over the Dec-Jan period (a la some private schools and the UK) or over defined periods of time to get spikes under control (like much of Europe) might not have been the "best option" given the pandemic, but that would have been in the context of IPL in August-November, etc. Open in person schools should be the default and heavy favorite and specific conditions should have to overcome that presumption for defined periods of time. The status quo is lunacy.

This. Well said. The problem here is that it is very hard to break the status quo. Much of the US got this wrong from the start and now we are stuck with an insane situation.

not really. it's a question of political will. the only places where schools have been completely closed all this time are cities (like dc) that run by democrats where teachers unions are strong. everywhere else, schools have been open to varying degrees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No one is pro-DL. People are making the best of a bad situation and want all teachers vaccinated before returning. And some families need the parents vaccinated before their kids return.

Homeschool teaching really only needs a few hours a day but school is 6 hours a day. A lot of school is get in line, cut this paper and wait while kids cut the paper, read in your small groups, etc. Direct instruction is not a lot of time.

DL still sucks but in a pandemic its the best option.

My teachers walk or bike to school. My teachers have walked or biked to see our kids from a distance.

Cutting paper and reading in small groups is education, you wrinkly kumquat. Direct instruction is often significantly inferior to other methods of instruction, particularly for ES kids. This is part of the reason that Zoom, which lends it self to direct instruction, is less effective for younger kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, did you read that one thread with Mom McChores who, to provide her child with the socialization that the daughter was missing, encouraged the daughter to call stores and complain?

That was REAL. That was an actual person who thought that was a good idea.

I think. Who knows, anymore, though.

I want schools to open, but I thought that was a brilliant suggestion

you could call and complain about it. i know an excellent dcum anon who can teach you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is pro-DL. People are making the best of a bad situation and want all teachers vaccinated before returning. And some families need the parents vaccinated before their kids return.

Homeschool teaching really only needs a few hours a day but school is 6 hours a day. A lot of school is get in line, cut this paper and wait while kids cut the paper, read in your small groups, etc. Direct instruction is not a lot of time.

DL still sucks but in a pandemic its the best option.

My teachers walk or bike to school. My teachers have walked or biked to see our kids from a distance.

Virtual learning is "cut this paper and wait while kids cut the paper, read in your small groups, etc." Only now it's for 1/4th of the time it used to be and the teacher can't even tell if they're cutting the paper correctly. It's insanity. And, no, even in a pandemic, only DL is not the best option. Basically the entire developed world agrees with me... except for those responsible for most large metro areas (though not the largest!) in the US. I'm not saying that an 8 week shutdown w/ DL only over the Dec-Jan period (a la some private schools and the UK) or over defined periods of time to get spikes under control (like much of Europe) might not have been the "best option" given the pandemic, but that would have been in the context of IPL in August-November, etc. Open in person schools should be the default and heavy favorite and specific conditions should have to overcome that presumption for defined periods of time. The status quo is lunacy.

This. Well said. The problem here is that it is very hard to break the status quo. Much of the US got this wrong from the start and now we are stuck with an insane situation.

not really. it's a question of political will. the only places where schools have been completely closed all this time are cities (like dc) that run by democrats where teachers unions are strong. everywhere else, schools have been open to varying degrees.

Fair enough, but are there any places in the US who opened schools fully and nearly normally after the summer, like European countries did?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Totally agree. I think one of the big issues will be that bad, unhappy teachers in failing schools with crappy leadership and facilities will fight tooth and nail to stay at home as long as they can, whereas good, generally content teachers in decent schools with competent leadership and adequate facilities will largely prefer to go back once they're vaccinated and certainly once their family members are vaccinated and/or as the return to "normalish" life becomes, well, normalized. This will mean that the kids in Ward 7 and 8 schools, already at a massive disadvantage in many, many ways will now be even more disadvantaged.

ALL schools in DC are lavishly funded compared to schools in most of the rest of the country. Schools are far more decrepit in NYC or Chicago, and they managed to open.

Are schools is Ward 7 and 8 more decrepit than those in other wards? I live in Ward 4 and my elementary school has rat traps and no soap. I'm not saying that to suggest Ward 7 and 8 schools AREN'T decrepit, just asking if they are MORE decrepit.

Also I would hope eventually to have no decrepit schools, but that's for another day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is pro-DL. People are making the best of a bad situation and want all teachers vaccinated before returning. And some families need the parents vaccinated before their kids return.

Homeschool teaching really only needs a few hours a day but school is 6 hours a day. A lot of school is get in line, cut this paper and wait while kids cut the paper, read in your small groups, etc. Direct instruction is not a lot of time.

DL still sucks but in a pandemic its the best option.

My teachers walk or bike to school. My teachers have walked or biked to see our kids from a distance.

Virtual learning is "cut this paper and wait while kids cut the paper, read in your small groups, etc." Only now it's for 1/4th of the time it used to be and the teacher can't even tell if they're cutting the paper correctly. It's insanity. And, no, even in a pandemic, only DL is not the best option. Basically the entire developed world agrees with me... except for those responsible for most large metro areas (though not the largest!) in the US. I'm not saying that an 8 week shutdown w/ DL only over the Dec-Jan period (a la some private schools and the UK) or over defined periods of time to get spikes under control (like much of Europe) might not have been the "best option" given the pandemic, but that would have been in the context of IPL in August-November, etc. Open in person schools should be the default and heavy favorite and specific conditions should have to overcome that presumption for defined periods of time. The status quo is lunacy.

This. Well said. The problem here is that it is very hard to break the status quo. Much of the US got this wrong from the start and now we are stuck with an insane situation.

not really. it's a question of political will. the only places where schools have been completely closed all this time are cities (like dc) that run by democrats where teachers unions are strong. everywhere else, schools have been open to varying degrees.

Fair enough, but are there any places in the US who opened schools fully and nearly normally after the summer, like European countries did?

Yes, tons of places. Even now, almost 40 percent of schools in the US are currently completely open, with kids going to school every day.

https://info.burbio.com/school-tracker-update-feb-1/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Totally agree. I think one of the big issues will be that bad, unhappy teachers in failing schools with crappy leadership and facilities will fight tooth and nail to stay at home as long as they can, whereas good, generally content teachers in decent schools with competent leadership and adequate facilities will largely prefer to go back once they're vaccinated and certainly once their family members are vaccinated and/or as the return to "normalish" life becomes, well, normalized. This will mean that the kids in Ward 7 and 8 schools, already at a massive disadvantage in many, many ways will now be even more disadvantaged.

ALL schools in DC are lavishly funded compared to schools in most of the rest of the country. Schools are far more decrepit in NYC or Chicago, and they managed to open.

Are schools is Ward 7 and 8 more decrepit than those in other wards? I live in Ward 4 and my elementary school has rat traps and no soap. I'm not saying that to suggest Ward 7 and 8 schools AREN'T decrepit, just asking if they are MORE decrepit.

Also I would hope eventually to have no decrepit schools, but that's for another day.

Yes. The average Ward 7 or 8 school is in substantially worse physical condition than the average school in other wards. I'm am not claiming that there aren't outliers, but I absolutely stand by my statement on average. Our Ward 6 school runs out of soap and toilet paper every year; every year, the PTO kicks in $2K to pay for them in April-ish. This is just a tiny example of the issue.