DC data on learning loss

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is pro-DL. People are making the best of a bad situation and want all teachers vaccinated before returning. And some families need the parents vaccinated before their kids return.

Homeschool teaching really only needs a few hours a day but school is 6 hours a day. A lot of school is get in line, cut this paper and wait while kids cut the paper, read in your small groups, etc. Direct instruction is not a lot of time.

DL still sucks but in a pandemic its the best option.

My teachers walk or bike to school. My teachers have walked or biked to see our kids from a distance.

Virtual learning is "cut this paper and wait while kids cut the paper, read in your small groups, etc." Only now it's for 1/4th of the time it used to be and the teacher can't even tell if they're cutting the paper correctly. It's insanity. And, no, even in a pandemic, only DL is not the best option. Basically the entire developed world agrees with me... except for those responsible for most large metro areas (though not the largest!) in the US. I'm not saying that an 8 week shutdown w/ DL only over the Dec-Jan period (a la some private schools and the UK) or over defined periods of time to get spikes under control (like much of Europe) might not have been the "best option" given the pandemic, but that would have been in the context of IPL in August-November, etc. Open in person schools should be the default and heavy favorite and specific conditions should have to overcome that presumption for defined periods of time. The status quo is lunacy.

This. Well said. The problem here is that it is very hard to break the status quo. Much of the US got this wrong from the start and now we are stuck with an insane situation.

not really. it's a question of political will. the only places where schools have been completely closed all this time are cities (like dc) that run by democrats where teachers unions are strong. everywhere else, schools have been open to varying degrees.

Fair enough, but are there any places in the US who opened schools fully and nearly normally after the summer, like European countries did?

Yes, tons of places. Even now, almost 40 percent of schools in the US are currently completely open, with kids going to school every day.

https://info.burbio.com/school-tracker-update-feb-1/

This is why my post specifically talked about large metro areas (except for the largest). I don't think we disagree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, did you read that one thread with Mom McChores who, to provide her child with the socialization that the daughter was missing, encouraged the daughter to call stores and complain?

That was REAL. That was an actual person who thought that was a good idea.

I think. Who knows, anymore, though.

I want schools to open, but I thought that was a brilliant suggestion

you could call and complain about it. i know an excellent dcum anon who can teach you.

I’m going to create an Outschool class on how to complain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This data is really really bad. As an ECE teacher I can tell you that the effects of lower literacy levels in early childhood have enormous cascading effects. These gaps are difficult to address without intensive effort from specialists. That is expensive and time-consuming and not something that we can do on a system-wide scale.

There will be more dropouts. There will be more kids who can't read anywhere near grade level in a few years. Sadly these will be the kids who are being left behind mostly poor kids and POC.

These were just the kids who were tested. There were a significant number of kids from my school who didn't take the tests. The general consensus is that they were weaker students, the ones who we really need to reach but can't through virtual learning.

I feel really sad right now

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This data is really really bad. As an ECE teacher I can tell you that the effects of lower literacy levels in early childhood have enormous cascading effects. These gaps are difficult to address without intensive effort from specialists. That is expensive and time-consuming and not something that we can do on a system-wide scale.

There will be more dropouts. There will be more kids who can't read anywhere near grade level in a few years. Sadly these will be the kids who are being left behind mostly poor kids and POC.

These were just the kids who were tested. There were a significant number of kids from my school who didn't take the tests. The general consensus is that they were weaker students, the ones who we really need to reach but can't through virtual learning.

I feel really sad right now

This.

Distance learning is ruining kids' lives.

[Anonymous]

From the New York Times:

"Many of the common preconditions to opening schools — including vaccines for teachers or students, and low rates of infection in the community — are not necessary to safely teach children in person, a consensus of pediatric infectious disease experts said in a new survey.

Instead, the 175 experts — mostly pediatricians focused on public health — largely agreed that it was safe for schools to be open for elementary students for full-time and in-person instruction now....

Most believe the extent of virus spread in a community is not an important indicator of whether schools should be open, even though many districts still rely on that metric. Schools should close only when there are Covid-19 cases in the school itself, most said..."

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/11/upshot/schools-reopening-coronavirus-experts.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This data is really really bad. As an ECE teacher I can tell you that the effects of lower literacy levels in early childhood have enormous cascading effects. These gaps are difficult to address without intensive effort from specialists. That is expensive and time-consuming and not something that we can do on a system-wide scale.

There will be more dropouts. There will be more kids who can't read anywhere near grade level in a few years. Sadly these will be the kids who are being left behind mostly poor kids and POC.

These were just the kids who were tested. There were a significant number of kids from my school who didn't take the tests. The general consensus is that they were weaker students, the ones who we really need to reach but can't through virtual learning.

I feel really sad right now

So, should charter and Dcps be required to allow children to repeat their current grade??
Or create modified classes and grade levels? Like pk4-k or K-1, 1-2, 2-3 etc mixed level curriculum classes? Other states like New York state do offer mixed level classes for prk-k-1-2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The summer slide is known and well researched, right? How could anyone think that there isn't a learning loss associated with schools being closed/severely limited for an extended period of time? I don't understand people arguing that the data isn't real. You may think it's an acceptable trade off for safety in these circumstances, but that doesn't mean it isn't real.

The data is real and long. I don't know why people haven't become more in favor of a 12 month calendar. Maybe a month ish off in the winter and summer a couple other 1-3 week breaks. It would all even out once daycare providers and camps adjusted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The summer slide is known and well researched, right? How could anyone think that there isn't a learning loss associated with schools being closed/severely limited for an extended period of time? I don't understand people arguing that the data isn't real. You may think it's an acceptable trade off for safety in these circumstances, but that doesn't mean it isn't real.

The data is real and long. I don't know why people haven't become more in favor of a 12 month calendar. Maybe a month ish off in the winter and summer a couple other 1-3 week breaks. It would all even out once daycare providers and camps adjusted.

I certainly wish what they have in Germany: 6 weeks in the summer, 2 weeks in October, 2 weeks over Christmas, 1 week in February, 3 weeks around Easter. Makes so much more sense and is better for the kids than this antiquated, agricultural child labor focused American summer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From the New York Times:

"Many of the common preconditions to opening schools — including vaccines for teachers or students, and low rates of infection in the community — are not necessary to safely teach children in person, a consensus of pediatric infectious disease experts said in a new survey.

Instead, the 175 experts — mostly pediatricians focused on public health — largely agreed that it was safe for schools to be open for elementary students for full-time and in-person instruction now....

Most believe the extent of virus spread in a community is not an important indicator of whether schools should be open, even though many districts still rely on that metric. Schools should close only when there are Covid-19 cases in the school itself, most said..."

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/11/upshot/schools-reopening-coronavirus-experts.html

This will get annoying after awhile. Our school is opened with the 11 kids and there have been 4 cases thus far where ids had to convert back to DL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The summer slide is known and well researched, right? How could anyone think that there isn't a learning loss associated with schools being closed/severely limited for an extended period of time? I don't understand people arguing that the data isn't real. You may think it's an acceptable trade off for safety in these circumstances, but that doesn't mean it isn't real.

The data is real and long. I don't know why people haven't become more in favor of a 12 month calendar. Maybe a month ish off in the winter and summer a couple other 1-3 week breaks. It would all even out once daycare providers and camps adjusted.

I certainly wish what they have in Germany: 6 weeks in the summer, 2 weeks in October, 2 weeks over Christmas, 1 week in February, 3 weeks around Easter. Makes so much more sense and is better for the kids than this antiquated, agricultural child labor focused American summer.

Mothers don't work full-time there. So you can have those kinds of incredibly inconvenient-for-working-parents calendars. Speaking of antiquated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The summer slide is known and well researched, right? How could anyone think that there isn't a learning loss associated with schools being closed/severely limited for an extended period of time? I don't understand people arguing that the data isn't real. You may think it's an acceptable trade off for safety in these circumstances, but that doesn't mean it isn't real.

The data is real and long. I don't know why people haven't become more in favor of a 12 month calendar. Maybe a month ish off in the winter and summer a couple other 1-3 week breaks. It would all even out once daycare providers and camps adjusted.

I certainly wish what they have in Germany: 6 weeks in the summer, 2 weeks in October, 2 weeks over Christmas, 1 week in February, 3 weeks around Easter. Makes so much more sense and is better for the kids than this antiquated, agricultural child labor focused American summer.

Mothers don't work full-time there. So you can have those kinds of incredibly inconvenient-for-working-parents calendars. Speaking of antiquated.

What?? You don't know what you're talking about. Mothers in Germany work full-time just as much as here. Mine certainly did when I grew up there in the 70s and 80s, and the women among my friends and family there do today. The schedule is only inconvenient if you assume that camp and daycare providers would never adjust. Which of course they would.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The summer slide is known and well researched, right? How could anyone think that there isn't a learning loss associated with schools being closed/severely limited for an extended period of time? I don't understand people arguing that the data isn't real. You may think it's an acceptable trade off for safety in these circumstances, but that doesn't mean it isn't real.

The data is real and long. I don't know why people haven't become more in favor of a 12 month calendar. Maybe a month ish off in the winter and summer a couple other 1-3 week breaks. It would all even out once daycare providers and camps adjusted.

I certainly wish what they have in Germany: 6 weeks in the summer, 2 weeks in October, 2 weeks over Christmas, 1 week in February, 3 weeks around Easter. Makes so much more sense and is better for the kids than this antiquated, agricultural child labor focused American summer.

Mothers don't work full-time there. So you can have those kinds of incredibly inconvenient-for-working-parents calendars. Speaking of antiquated.

It is hilarious that you think that America is somehow more modern and friendly to working mothers than Germany, when it is Germany that offers subsidized, affordable daycare, and even offers subsidized daycare for school-aged children during those breaks that are distributed throughout the year. My family in Germany almost faints when I tell them what we have to shell out for camp every summer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This data is really really bad. As an ECE teacher I can tell you that the effects of lower literacy levels in early childhood have enormous cascading effects. These gaps are difficult to address without intensive effort from specialists. That is expensive and time-consuming and not something that we can do on a system-wide scale.

There will be more dropouts. There will be more kids who can't read anywhere near grade level in a few years. Sadly these will be the kids who are being left behind mostly poor kids and POC.

These were just the kids who were tested. There were a significant number of kids from my school who didn't take the tests. The general consensus is that they were weaker students, the ones who we really need to reach but can't through virtual learning.

I feel really sad right now

So, should charter and Dcps be required to allow children to repeat their current grade??
Or create modified classes and grade levels? Like pk4-k or K-1, 1-2, 2-3 etc mixed level curriculum classes? Other states like New York state do offer mixed level classes for prk-k-1-2

I think they need to figure out a way to provide 1:1 or small group tutoring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The summer slide is known and well researched, right? How could anyone think that there isn't a learning loss associated with schools being closed/severely limited for an extended period of time? I don't understand people arguing that the data isn't real. You may think it's an acceptable trade off for safety in these circumstances, but that doesn't mean it isn't real.

The data is real and long. I don't know why people haven't become more in favor of a 12 month calendar. Maybe a month ish off in the winter and summer a couple other 1-3 week breaks. It would all even out once daycare providers and camps adjusted.

Data also shows online learning doesnt work, especially for younger children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The summer slide is known and well researched, right? How could anyone think that there isn't a learning loss associated with schools being closed/severely limited for an extended period of time? I don't understand people arguing that the data isn't real. You may think it's an acceptable trade off for safety in these circumstances, but that doesn't mean it isn't real.

The data is real and long. I don't know why people haven't become more in favor of a 12 month calendar. Maybe a month ish off in the winter and summer a couple other 1-3 week breaks. It would all even out once daycare providers and camps adjusted.

I certainly wish what they have in Germany: 6 weeks in the summer, 2 weeks in October, 2 weeks over Christmas, 1 week in February, 3 weeks around Easter. Makes so much more sense and is better for the kids than this antiquated, agricultural child labor focused American summer.

Mothers don't work full-time there. So you can have those kinds of incredibly inconvenient-for-working-parents calendars. Speaking of antiquated.

It is hilarious that you think that America is somehow more modern and friendly to working mothers than Germany, when it is Germany that offers subsidized, affordable daycare, and even offers subsidized daycare for school-aged children during those breaks that are distributed throughout the year. My family in Germany almost faints when I tell them what we have to shell out for camp every summer.

Mothers work full-time at lower rates, and are almost non-existent in top jobs. https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2020/0923/Why-does-Germany-make-so-little-room-for-working-moms

Subsided child care doesn't mean you can actually find a slot, or that it covers the hours you're working.

Is that "modern and friendly to working mothers"? If you want to work part-time for pocket money, sure.