DC data on learning loss

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schools in NYC have been open for months. Sounds like it's going FAR better than the teachers union predicted. Maybe everyone should just stop listening to teachers unions.


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/14/nyregion/coronavirus-elementary-school-reopening.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

Remember when WTU sent body bags to DC officials that read "your favorite teacher." Ha. WTU has been wrong about everything.

Unfortunately the unions destroyed a lot of goodwill with parents, and for what?! A couple more months of staying at home?! To many concerned families teachers now just look like another self-interested industry lobby that did not come through for our kids when it really mattered.

Like your goodwill means anything to teachers at title 1 schools.

A public sector union needs public support. If the public is against you, then politicians have the incentive to make unfavorable changes to your working conditions.

Well, I have bad news for you. There aren't many organizations in DC that are less popular than WTU. Politicians have a free hand to cut WTU down to size.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schools in NYC have been open for months. Sounds like it's going FAR better than the teachers union predicted. Maybe everyone should just stop listening to teachers unions.


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/14/nyregion/coronavirus-elementary-school-reopening.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

Remember when WTU sent body bags to DC officials that read "your favorite teacher." Ha. WTU has been wrong about everything.

Unfortunately the unions destroyed a lot of goodwill with parents, and for what?! A couple more months of staying at home?! To many concerned families teachers now just look like another self-interested industry lobby that did not come through for our kids when it really mattered.

Like your goodwill means anything to teachers at title 1 schools.

A public sector union needs public support. If the public is against you, then politicians have the incentive to make unfavorable changes to your working conditions.

Well, I have bad news for you. There aren't many organizations in DC that are less popular than WTU. Politicians have a free hand to cut WTU down to size.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:See pages 4-5 and 12-14.

"Overall 11% point drop in students meeting benchmarks on DIBELS in grades K-2 at the beginning of year (BOY) compared to last year at BOY;
in Kindergarten there is an 11% point drop, in 1st grade a 12% point drop, and in 2nd grade a 7% point drop.
● Cohort to cohort comparisons from last year’s mid-year point to BOY this year show a 20%-point drop in the % of 1st graders meeting benchmarks at BOY compared to their 19-20
performance as middle of year (MOY) K students.
● 15%-point drop in this year’s 2nd-grade cohort meeting benchmarks at BOY compared to their performance as 1st-grade students at MOY in 19-20.
● Achievement gaps in early literacy (K-2) have grown during the pandemic:
○ The early literacy gap between Black and White students has grown from 28% to 35%.
○ The early literacy gap between Latino and White students has grown from 30% to 37%.
● Black and Latino students (K-2) have fallen behind at a higher rate than White students:
○ Black students in K-2 meeting early literacy benchmarks have decreased by 14%compared to 6% for White students.
○ The percent of Latino students in K-2 meeting early literacy benchmarks has decreased by 13% points compared to 6% points for White students."

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Gb0k62G4R7a3spCuMu8H-EHJM_0oUN5D/view?fbclid=IwAR3DrfHJdHvMSs5pPzkWbOEN7VX5ZinHnVsGizd4sEdpXZaO6HMPIQZTgIg

This is horrifying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schools in NYC have been open for months. Sounds like it's going FAR better than the teachers union predicted. Maybe everyone should just stop listening to teachers unions.


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/14/nyregion/coronavirus-elementary-school-reopening.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

Remember when WTU sent body bags to DC officials that read "your favorite teacher." Ha. WTU has been wrong about everything.

Unfortunately the unions destroyed a lot of goodwill with parents, and for what?! A couple more months of staying at home?! To many concerned families teachers now just look like another self-interested industry lobby that did not come through for our kids when it really mattered.

Like your goodwill means anything to teachers at title 1 schools.

A public sector union needs public support. If the public is against you, then politicians have the incentive to make unfavorable changes to your working conditions.

Well, I have bad news for you. There aren't many organizations in DC that are less popular than WTU. Politicians have a free hand to cut WTU down to size.

+1

Anybody ask Ferebee what the plan is for this? Because the school budgets cut positions at most schools.

[Anonymous]

Just curious how many people read the numbers about all of DCPS in any year prior to this when they didn't have a personal agenda to send their kids back to school?

I want my kid back too but safely and when he can't kill a teacher.

His learning is NOT dependent on what this data shows. And I find this data suspect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just curious how many people read the numbers about all of DCPS in any year prior to this when they didn't have a personal agenda to send their kids back to school?

I want my kid back too but safely and when he can't kill a teacher.

His learning is NOT dependent on what this data shows. And I find this data suspect.

I mean, I do look at school achievement scores regularly, and have done so for years. They are interesting to correlate with housing prices. I know a lot of people poor over them when deciding where to move.

But I think your argument is "you didn't care before so you can't care now." So I guess don't learn about inequality if you didn't know about it before?

If your teachers are vaccinated will your kid be killing them?

What about the data is problematic for you?

[Anonymous]

Edit: "pour" not "poor"

[Anonymous]

it's actually pore

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious how many people read the numbers about all of DCPS in any year prior to this when they didn't have a personal agenda to send their kids back to school?

I want my kid back too but safely and when he can't kill a teacher.

His learning is NOT dependent on what this data shows. And I find this data suspect.

I mean, I do look at school achievement scores regularly, and have done so for years. They are interesting to correlate with housing prices. I know a lot of people poor over them when deciding where to move.

But I think your argument is "you didn't care before so you can't care now." So I guess don't learn about inequality if you didn't know about it before?

If your teachers are vaccinated will your kid be killing them?

What about the data is problematic for you?

I want teachers vaccinated with time for it to be effective and yes then my child can return even if I'm not vaccinated. Other families feel the same way I do and some have a high risk parent. The ones with high risk parents will wait until that parent is vaccinated before the child can return. I have spoken to about 6-7 families we are close too and all are hoping we are back in September. Two have high risk parents that they are hoping will be vaccinated in the next month or so.

The issue about the data is its misleading - it wasn't collected in a static manner to years past and being presented to prove a point. And I'm using my own experience too to not be thrilled. My child is in a low reading group based on online testing. When he reads with me he reads better than that. I send the teacher videos so she knows he's progressing. When he has taken the online assessments for math he does great. I have stood behind him and he's literally guessing and he's guessed right a lot of the time. He's playing with the app and he thinks its a game because things turn green and he keeps getting questions.

Per DCPS my child is failing at reading; he's doing great in math. One would think this is odd because he can't read the questions yet he is getting them right.

Also, DCPS put out reading scores stating there was a 21% learning loss to Kinder reading than years past. First done to scare people; second no child had been in school since March and there is summer slide. The assessment was done on line with early readers so there was to be loss but come on. DCPS came out and retracted the statement which didn't get press, Perry Stein printed something but how many people went back to the article to look for a retraction. So not trusting the data for a few years.

BTW I'm a big data person, big testing person (don't like testing implementation per se but not against it being done), pro-common core, etc. But DCPS is failing at a lot right now and I'm opting out from testing for at least two years. I never thought I would be that person.

If scores dip now that is fine - its a pandemic, we are all living with trauma (sans Ted Cruz - had to jab him) so it would be nice to know how big the dip is so we can correct for it moving forward when we are "normal" again. But the dip is being used for an agenda and hysteria and I can't abide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:it's actually pore

It's not, but I can't tell if you're kidding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:it's actually pore

It's not, but I can't tell if you're kidding.

F*ck you're right. oops.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:it's actually pore

It's not, but I can't tell if you're kidding.

Uh, it is. Wow grammar people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious how many people read the numbers about all of DCPS in any year prior to this when they didn't have a personal agenda to send their kids back to school?

I want my kid back too but safely and when he can't kill a teacher.

His learning is NOT dependent on what this data shows. And I find this data suspect.

I mean, I do look at school achievement scores regularly, and have done so for years. They are interesting to correlate with housing prices. I know a lot of people poor over them when deciding where to move.

But I think your argument is "you didn't care before so you can't care now." So I guess don't learn about inequality if you didn't know about it before?

If your teachers are vaccinated will your kid be killing them?

What about the data is problematic for you?

I want teachers vaccinated with time for it to be effective and yes then my child can return even if I'm not vaccinated. Other families feel the same way I do and some have a high risk parent. The ones with high risk parents will wait until that parent is vaccinated before the child can return. I have spoken to about 6-7 families we are close too and all are hoping we are back in September. Two have high risk parents that they are hoping will be vaccinated in the next month or so.

The issue about the data is its misleading - it wasn't collected in a static manner to years past and being presented to prove a point. And I'm using my own experience too to not be thrilled. My child is in a low reading group based on online testing. When he reads with me he reads better than that. I send the teacher videos so she knows he's progressing. When he has taken the online assessments for math he does great. I have stood behind him and he's literally guessing and he's guessed right a lot of the time. He's playing with the app and he thinks its a game because things turn green and he keeps getting questions.

Per DCPS my child is failing at reading; he's doing great in math. One would think this is odd because he can't read the questions yet he is getting them right.

Also, DCPS put out reading scores stating there was a 21% learning loss to Kinder reading than years past. First done to scare people; second no child had been in school since March and there is summer slide. The assessment was done on line with early readers so there was to be loss but come on. DCPS came out and retracted the statement which didn't get press, Perry Stein printed something but how many people went back to the article to look for a retraction. So not trusting the data for a few years.

BTW I'm a big data person, big testing person (don't like testing implementation per se but not against it being done), pro-common core, etc. But DCPS is failing at a lot right now and I'm opting out from testing for at least two years. I never thought I would be that person.

If scores dip now that is fine - its a pandemic, we are all living with trauma (sans Ted Cruz - had to jab him) so it would be nice to know how big the dip is so we can correct for it moving forward when we are "normal" again. But the dip is being used for an agenda and hysteria and I can't abide.

Thanks for having a reasonable, non-inflammatory response! It's getting rarer on DCUM!

I think the city has to collect the data (probably for federal money), and does indeed want to see what it can from it. I think the researchers are aware of the data limitations, and as seen up-thread, they do address those limitations in analysis. Obviously it can't be perfect, since it's a pandemic. What would be the appropriate way to assess what's happening in learning through the pandemic, if you were tasked with doing so? I would assume that DCPS wants to see what's happening so they can start planning how to make up for any extreme problems in the summer/fall. (But LOL, I might be naive to think DCPS is planning anything....)

I think the collection of the data is different than one thing you are pointing out -- how it is being used. I don't see the data being cited at all anywhere (except here, and in DC committee hearings), so I don't understand how it is being used in a way that is disingenuous or nefarious. Maybe you have seen this somewhere? Maybe it's happening in internal dialogues between DCPS and WTU? I don't know. Do you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:it's actually pore

It's not, but I can't tell if you're kidding.

Uh, it is. Wow grammar people.

I said you were right! Damn!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious how many people read the numbers about all of DCPS in any year prior to this when they didn't have a personal agenda to send their kids back to school?

I want my kid back too but safely and when he can't kill a teacher.

His learning is NOT dependent on what this data shows. And I find this data suspect.

I mean, I do look at school achievement scores regularly, and have done so for years. They are interesting to correlate with housing prices. I know a lot of people poor over them when deciding where to move.

But I think your argument is "you didn't care before so you can't care now." So I guess don't learn about inequality if you didn't know about it before?

If your teachers are vaccinated will your kid be killing them?

What about the data is problematic for you?

I want teachers vaccinated with time for it to be effective and yes then my child can return even if I'm not vaccinated. Other families feel the same way I do and some have a high risk parent. The ones with high risk parents will wait until that parent is vaccinated before the child can return. I have spoken to about 6-7 families we are close too and all are hoping we are back in September. Two have high risk parents that they are hoping will be vaccinated in the next month or so.

The issue about the data is its misleading - it wasn't collected in a static manner to years past and being presented to prove a point. And I'm using my own experience too to not be thrilled. My child is in a low reading group based on online testing. When he reads with me he reads better than that. I send the teacher videos so she knows he's progressing. When he has taken the online assessments for math he does great. I have stood behind him and he's literally guessing and he's guessed right a lot of the time. He's playing with the app and he thinks its a game because things turn green and he keeps getting questions.

Per DCPS my child is failing at reading; he's doing great in math. One would think this is odd because he can't read the questions yet he is getting them right.

Also, DCPS put out reading scores stating there was a 21% learning loss to Kinder reading than years past. First done to scare people; second no child had been in school since March and there is summer slide. The assessment was done on line with early readers so there was to be loss but come on. DCPS came out and retracted the statement which didn't get press, Perry Stein printed something but how many people went back to the article to look for a retraction. So not trusting the data for a few years.

BTW I'm a big data person, big testing person (don't like testing implementation per se but not against it being done), pro-common core, etc. But DCPS is failing at a lot right now and I'm opting out from testing for at least two years. I never thought I would be that person.

If scores dip now that is fine - its a pandemic, we are all living with trauma (sans Ted Cruz - had to jab him) so it would be nice to know how big the dip is so we can correct for it moving forward when we are "normal" again. But the dip is being used for an agenda and hysteria and I can't abide.

Thanks for having a reasonable, non-inflammatory response! It's getting rarer on DCUM!

I think the city has to collect the data (probably for federal money), and does indeed want to see what it can from it. I think the researchers are aware of the data limitations, and as seen up-thread, they do address those limitations in analysis. Obviously it can't be perfect, since it's a pandemic. What would be the appropriate way to assess what's happening in learning through the pandemic, if you were tasked with doing so? I would assume that DCPS wants to see what's happening so they can start planning how to make up for any extreme problems in the summer/fall. (But LOL, I might be naive to think DCPS is planning anything....)

I think the collection of the data is different than one thing you are pointing out -- how it is being used. I don't see the data being cited at all anywhere (except here, and in DC committee hearings), so I don't understand how it is being used in a way that is disingenuous or nefarious. Maybe you have seen this somewhere? Maybe it's happening in internal dialogues between DCPS and WTU? I don't know. Do you?

Yes to federal requirements - totally makes sense and it would be nice if Biden could remove this requirement for a year.

I've seen some crazy things from DCPS and I've wondered if they were doing it to qualify for funds and have no intention of it being functional.

I've also seen DCPS do crazy things like issue a parent survey on nextdoor that had a 6 hour turn around. I asked the person (public per next door who worked at DCPS) why the short turn around, etc. and she said her boss told her to when to post it and the time frame. This is how DCPS wants it done.

I've also been on a few boards professionally with DCPS and been horrified at data collection. A DCPS survey on STEM education once said that only 95% of DCPS schools had math instruction. Its required by law to have 100% so I wouldn't allow the meeting to continue with 100 pages of data after that page. OSSE was on board. The consultant tried to lecture me (data specialist, not scientist) on data. Its impossible. I love data, I live with data, I'm running my own vaccine numbers for fun.

While in this meeting, I sat there and created a survey of Charters (easier for me to look at their websites sadly) and was able to show which charters taught physics and which ones didn't. Lecture from the consultant that I didn't ask the schools. Well if the school puts on their website a teacher is a physics teacher I'm going to go with they teach physics. Maybe to 2 students, not 25 but they are teaching physics and capable to teach physics. This took me less than an hour.

I totally forgot about that meeting (happened in the last 5 years btw) until I saw the reading data.

Also the Tenacity contractor for DCPS is very suspect. They are doing it for free but it hasn't passed an ethics review. Very very odd.

BTW your professional and social life is filled with people who didn't test well. Tests show that kids can test well. I tested insanely well sometimes and "failed" my SATs. My scores despite thousands of dollars (my parents are loaded) for tutors got worse every single time. Again I'm pro-testing because it gives a snapshot and shows where deficiencies are. But I'm not pro-testing to be the only determining factor in education or an education system.