DC data on learning loss

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Moms too stressed out to work and parent but on DCUM all day.

I'm removing my child from all testing for the next 3 years. I am very pro testing but I am really dismayed with how DCPS is using these scores now and miss-reporting.

Can you describe the misreporting in more detail?

A few months ago DCPS reported the "learning loss" of ECE/Kinder saying the slide was major, etc. The issue is tests aren't valid for learning loss - a child has to be in person for 6 weeks to have a valid score and no child had been in person since March. So testing children in September to show a summer slide doesn't really work. Even if the children were in person in September, the test wouldn't be valid until the children had been in school until October. DCPS published the data and there was the normal outrage and then retracted and kept the retraction updates quiet.

I've seen my child test badly for reading the first few weeks of school (me lingering from another room). He was camera shy and I have seen him read those same words with no problems. But per DCPS he's failing at reading. I send the teacher videos of him reading and he's fluid and fine. The teacher is not concerned about his reading. But again he didn't do it right for a digital test so he's failing.

I have seen my child do the math assessment and he was literally guessing at every answer. He got a fair amount right btw but only from guessing. He thought he was "winning" the game. I asked around most of the other children were in the same boat. Again the teacher has told me she has to do this. We also don't have to participate.

I do understand some testing needs to happen for federal funding so it is not always DCPS' driving this. But I can chose to opt-out.

Like I said I am a pro-tester. Our school has great scores and they improve too but its a pandemic this isn't right.

BTW as a pro-tester I do not like the amount of time we are spending teaching to the test, time for testing, etc. I believe it could be done in a better way. I also don't think it should be tied to teacher performance.

THIS. The testing environment is not controlled, so the test isn't valid, so the results aren't valid. Data that is not valid is not reliable. It is completely irresponsible to use data gathered this way for this purpose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You’d think the health of our kids would be more important than some percentage points.

People, it’s a pandemic. Who cares about test scores?? I just want my kids to live and not have adverse long term side effects.

Not being able to read is much more likely to cause adverse long term side effects for the average child than Covid-19.

Newsflash: these problems existed before the pandemic (just look at the data from beforehand). What were all you “reopen the schools for the sake of the poor minority children” folks saying then? What were you doing about it?

Nothing. Absolutely nothing. So my issue is the majority of people crying about “learning loss” don’t actually care, they’re just using Black and Brown people as a tool in their game.

This is the most bizarre argument: "You didn't care before so you can't care now."

Look, I understand that the point may be that white people are being disingenuous about their concern for brown and Black kids. That's real. But maybe also they are starting to care, because they are being presented with data like this?

I am a parent and may advocate for my child or do what I believe is best, if I want to - same as you can do for yours. I do not need anyone's approval, nor do I plan to say what's best for your child.

[Anonymous]

It might be useful to watch the posted video, where the people analyzing the data tried to take into account the different circumstances in testing this year (compared to last year).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxVilgE9G6Y

I'm not denying the experience that people have watching their children not test well because it's through a computer, etc. Certainly that is something that is happening. But researchers know this is happening, and apparently are discussing ways to try to control for it. For example, in the video the researcher speaking notes that they only included 50% of the test scores obtained this year, as there were issues with the other 50%.

It is possible to still do research with imperfect data. Indeed, with such an important issue, it feels necessary to not just throw up our hands and pretend we can't try to analyze this as much as possible.

[Anonymous]

Validity is a concern on an individual level, but less so when you’re looking across cohorts. We can draw some conclusions based on these numbers. They are being used properly here. And the alternative with no data to show us how the kids are faring is worse.


Although I will admit that there are plenty of teachers who would prefer that their students are not evaluated this year.

[Anonymous]

Also, this is a recording of DC's Committee of the Whole meeting. It's not some rando youtube video that my aunt posted.

[Anonymous]

I am a parent and I don't want my child evaluated in this manner this year.

The math test my child took was the same test put in an app. The confusion was over how to use the app so the child didn't worry about the real questions and answers.

Researchers need to research so they are going to try to "control" for it. Still doesn't make it valid.

There are also cases of children testing at a college level because some over eager parents were "watching" too much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a parent and I don't want my child evaluated in this manner this year.

The math test my child took was the same test put in an app. The confusion was over how to use the app so the child didn't worry about the real questions and answers.

Researchers need to research so they are going to try to "control" for it. Still doesn't make it valid.

There are also cases of children testing at a college level because some over eager parents were "watching" too much.

The bolded is just....wrong.

[Anonymous]

Of course you think these tests meant for white children are accurate. Even white students HATE iReady LMAO.

DIBLES, I find no issue with though. As it is a very basic test

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a parent and I don't want my child evaluated in this manner this year.

The math test my child took was the same test put in an app. The confusion was over how to use the app so the child didn't worry about the real questions and answers.

Researchers need to research so they are going to try to "control" for it. Still doesn't make it valid.

There are also cases of children testing at a college level because some over eager parents were "watching" too much.

So some children test poorly in an online environment (and some don’t show up at all), and some might get assistance. Thus the data are fuzzy.

But do you have any doubt about the conclusions?!
— Kids are learning way less not in school.
— The achievement gap is widening.

Which part of that do you doubt? Why is it a problem for DCPS to acknowledge those points?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Moms too stressed out to work and parent but on DCUM all day.

I'm removing my child from all testing for the next 3 years. I am very pro testing but I am really dismayed with how DCPS is using these scores now and miss-reporting.

Can you describe the misreporting in more detail?

A few months ago DCPS reported the "learning loss" of ECE/Kinder saying the slide was major, etc. The issue is tests aren't valid for learning loss - a child has to be in person for 6 weeks to have a valid score and no child had been in person since March. So testing children in September to show a summer slide doesn't really work. Even if the children were in person in September, the test wouldn't be valid until the children had been in school until October. DCPS published the data and there was the normal outrage and then retracted and kept the retraction updates quiet.

I've seen my child test badly for reading the first few weeks of school (me lingering from another room). He was camera shy and I have seen him read those same words with no problems. But per DCPS he's failing at reading. I send the teacher videos of him reading and he's fluid and fine. The teacher is not concerned about his reading. But again he didn't do it right for a digital test so he's failing.

I have seen my child do the math assessment and he was literally guessing at every answer. He got a fair amount right btw but only from guessing. He thought he was "winning" the game. I asked around most of the other children were in the same boat. Again the teacher has told me she has to do this. We also don't have to participate.

I do understand some testing needs to happen for federal funding so it is not always DCPS' driving this. But I can chose to opt-out.

Like I said I am a pro-tester. Our school has great scores and they improve too but its a pandemic this isn't right.

BTW as a pro-tester I do not like the amount of time we are spending teaching to the test, time for testing, etc. I believe it could be done in a better way. I also don't think it should be tied to teacher performance.

THIS. The testing environment is not controlled, so the test isn't valid, so the results aren't valid. Data that is not valid is not reliable. It is completely irresponsible to use data gathered this way for this purpose.

so what data should we use? come on.

[Anonymous]

The video also has results from an assessment performed by teachers -- they apparently asked kids to read over the computer. So that's a different assessment that doesn't rely on understanding or familiarity with an app. It also seems like that's the most comparable form of assessment.

But also: Didn't kids take the tests through the apps, at least in some schools? I remember reading about one charter that had some huge drop in scores because they transitioned that year to the computer-based testing.

[Anonymous]

^^ meaning before Covid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Moms too stressed out to work and parent but on DCUM all day.

I'm removing my child from all testing for the next 3 years. I am very pro testing but I am really dismayed with how DCPS is using these scores now and miss-reporting.

Can you describe the misreporting in more detail?

A few months ago DCPS reported the "learning loss" of ECE/Kinder saying the slide was major, etc. The issue is tests aren't valid for learning loss - a child has to be in person for 6 weeks to have a valid score and no child had been in person since March. So testing children in September to show a summer slide doesn't really work. Even if the children were in person in September, the test wouldn't be valid until the children had been in school until October. DCPS published the data and there was the normal outrage and then retracted and kept the retraction updates quiet.

I've seen my child test badly for reading the first few weeks of school (me lingering from another room). He was camera shy and I have seen him read those same words with no problems. But per DCPS he's failing at reading. I send the teacher videos of him reading and he's fluid and fine. The teacher is not concerned about his reading. But again he didn't do it right for a digital test so he's failing.

I have seen my child do the math assessment and he was literally guessing at every answer. He got a fair amount right btw but only from guessing. He thought he was "winning" the game. I asked around most of the other children were in the same boat. Again the teacher has told me she has to do this. We also don't have to participate.

I do understand some testing needs to happen for federal funding so it is not always DCPS' driving this. But I can chose to opt-out.

Like I said I am a pro-tester. Our school has great scores and they improve too but its a pandemic this isn't right.

BTW as a pro-tester I do not like the amount of time we are spending teaching to the test, time for testing, etc. I believe it could be done in a better way. I also don't think it should be tied to teacher performance.

THIS. The testing environment is not controlled, so the test isn't valid, so the results aren't valid. Data that is not valid is not reliable. It is completely irresponsible to use data gathered this way for this purpose.

so what data should we use? come on.

Clutch your pearls - no data right now. When we are able to get kids safely back in the classroom then start assessments then and move forward.

Some children will catch up quickly once the mental stain is no longer there; some will need more remediation, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It might be useful to watch the posted video, where the people analyzing the data tried to take into account the different circumstances in testing this year (compared to last year).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxVilgE9G6Y

I'm not denying the experience that people have watching their children not test well because it's through a computer, etc. Certainly that is something that is happening. But researchers know this is happening, and apparently are discussing ways to try to control for it. For example, in the video the researcher speaking notes that they only included 50% of the test scores obtained this year, as there were issues with the other 50%.

It is possible to still do research with imperfect data. Indeed, with such an important issue, it feels necessary to not just throw up our hands and pretend we can't try to analyze this as much as possible.

This. The argument that we should disregard this because the data aren’t perfect is just as stupid as the argument that there is no problem with DL because school wasn’t perfect before Covid either.

[Anonymous]

I don't agree with getting no data now. We (or maybe public health and education planners) need to have an understanding of the various costs/benefits of DL. It really becomes important to weight the relative increased risk that teachers and school staff might face from in-person learning (with vaccinations, particularly, and with relevant precautions this appears very low) against the impacts on kids in the form of learning loss, drop-out rates, greater mental health issues, etc. Those impacts on kids could be lifelong, and lead to greater health repercussions for them.