New York Times Primal Scream Project - discuss...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^Yes, but the problem with just "hanging in there" is that the systemic failures are being disproportionately borne by moms & kids (and of course much more disadvantaged groups both within and outside this category). But everyone is so eff'ing exhausted, they can't do anything about it in terms of pushing systemic change. Vicious circle.

(Not a slam! I am exactly in the same position.)

I’m the PP, and it absolutely BLOWS, and all I can do is hang in there. I can’t afford to really explode or crash or whatever. I’ve made clear to my (male) boss that I’m holding on by a thread and he’s been pretty good about letting me do what I need to do. The unfairness is out of control—my husband does so little of the childcare and other invisible work—but if I blow up our relationship, as I am often tempted to do, it’s creating more problems and not really solving anything.

So...I’m just hanging in there.

Female manager here. You have a serious husband problem. Fix that and then look for accommodations at work.

Yeah. I know. What do you propose I do? I’ve tried a lot of different things short of leaving him, which I’m not willing to do right now.

Write down a schedule. Figure out who does what when. Include work calls and other commitments. My husband knows which days he's responsible for which meals, which ones I'm doing, and which ones we're doing together. We discuss on the weekend who is taking the dogs out, who is getting the kids dressed, who is making breakfast, etc., etc., etc. Maybe that sounds exhausting, but it's easier than having someone be the default all the time. This morning I had work calls, so he had the kids. This afternoon he has calls, so I have them. Tomorrow is the opposite. I made lunch today, he's making dinner tonight. Sometimes things change when something arises at the last minute, so then we communicate about it and figure out what needs to give.

If your husband won't do that, and you won't leave him, then start living like he doesn't exist. Don't do his laundry. Don't make meals for him. Plan what you want and what you need when YOU want/need it.

I mean, I find it pretty insulting that you think I haven’t tried some version of this, 11 different ways, over the past year. Like I said—it does NOT help the kids for me to harbor resentment and behave like their dad “doesn’t exist.” Ive said my peace, I’m trying to limp along until the end of this, and then we will see what happens. I get that you think I am weak and a loser for choosing this, and that you would never stand for this,, but who cares what an internet person thinks?

And I think what you’re saying and the way you’re saying it is part of the frustration of so many (mostly) women. Like it’s MY fault he’s not stepping up and if only I had the backbone to make him, I wouldn’t be so overwhelmed. That’s wrong and backwards and ignorant, if you ask me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vaccinate the teachers. Then open the damn schools. - my primal scream

That's great for you but what about me? My kids aren't school-aged yet. They were both supposed to be in preschool but I pulled them out due to covid concerns when, despite using birth control, I found out I'm pregnant with our 3rd. And now I don't want to send the baby to daycare until she's maybe 6 months or a year old for her health and safety.

Ok, what about you? What was your plan for childcare before COVID? Daycare, right? Many daycares are open. But, let's assume out of abundance of caution, you don't want to send your 2 kids (soon to be 3) to any childcare arrangement outside of home. Guess what. For the cost of 2 daycares (~3-3.5K depending on the ages) you can get a nanny to provide care in your home. Infant daycare is more like 2K+ in DC metro area (again, in non-Covid times), so with that math even with no pandemic you're better off with an individual nanny. Do you homework, screen them, pick someone whose risk tolerance is similar to yours, and that's your solution.

This assumes a high quality, COVID safe nanny is 1) available 2) affordable 3) taking all proper precautions and 4) you have the space in your home to accommodate them (ie you don’t live in apartment and have a driveway so they can park their car and not get towed being parked on your street all day, that you have a single family home or town house with adequate space to set up for the nanny to supervise the children while potentially mom and dad work elsewhere in the house - meaning there’s a home office and multiple living spaces - which is not a reality for those in small condos or apartments). Such a privileged mentality to not recognize the actual difficulties here. Also - nannies are in short supply right now and charging a premium.

Did you not read the part where I did the math? What entitles the PP to a high quality affordable nanny? Affordable by whose standards? If pre-covid a daycare teacher per 4-8 kids was enough, then same daycare teacher is looking for a job on sittercity or care-dot-com (or a similar care provider). If you can swing 2 daycare costs - you can hire a nanny. If you can swing 2 daycares and 1 infant care - you can hire a good quality nanny.

No parking spot in the condo? Parking garage is $20 per day or less and bam, nobody is towed.

Adequate space is a subjective term. Every family decides what's adequate for them. If you decided to have 3 kids in a small condo apt, then that's adequate for your situation. Parents take one bedroom as office, kids + nanny have remainder of the space to play, whatever that remainder is. Both parents need to be on a call at the same time? one goes to apt building lobby or to the car if it's super private.

I assure you, nannies are not in a short supply. They are plentiful. It's up to you to do the due diligence and screen and interview about precautions. So, in short, it can be done.
Yes, the past year sucked and was complicated for most people and most choices we have are suboptimal. But it doesn't mean it can't be done.

And daycares are also open if none of the above fits or works.

And what about those who are choosing no care and are trying to maintain their jobs because they feel that’s the only socially responsible choice right now? I suppose you think all those people should lose their jobs because they have a different tolerance for risk than you do and feel that parents being asked to choose between providing for their family and risking their health is an unfair choice. There are literally millions of parents doing care and work with no help because they don’t feel daycare and schools are safe right now. In most school districts parents who had to choose between in person and virtual learning saw at least 1/3 choose all levels virtual. It’s not just as simple as “open the schools” and “daycare is open” or “just hire a nanny.” With 400,000 plus souls dead from the virus many parents are unwilling to use their kids as guinea pigs. You can scream all you want til you are blue in the face that daycare/nannies/schools are safe and maybe they’ve been for your family but they still not convince millions of others who don’t agree with you and it also doesn’t make your choice more right or legitimate. Your choice is just different and only in hindsight will we really know how the chips fell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^Yes, but the problem with just "hanging in there" is that the systemic failures are being disproportionately borne by moms & kids (and of course much more disadvantaged groups both within and outside this category). But everyone is so eff'ing exhausted, they can't do anything about it in terms of pushing systemic change. Vicious circle.

(Not a slam! I am exactly in the same position.)

I’m the PP, and it absolutely BLOWS, and all I can do is hang in there. I can’t afford to really explode or crash or whatever. I’ve made clear to my (male) boss that I’m holding on by a thread and he’s been pretty good about letting me do what I need to do. The unfairness is out of control—my husband does so little of the childcare and other invisible work—but if I blow up our relationship, as I am often tempted to do, it’s creating more problems and not really solving anything.

So...I’m just hanging in there.

Female manager here. You have a serious husband problem. Fix that and then look for accommodations at work.

Yeah. I know. What do you propose I do? I’ve tried a lot of different things short of leaving him, which I’m not willing to do right now.

Write down a schedule. Figure out who does what when. Include work calls and other commitments. My husband knows which days he's responsible for which meals, which ones I'm doing, and which ones we're doing together. We discuss on the weekend who is taking the dogs out, who is getting the kids dressed, who is making breakfast, etc., etc., etc. Maybe that sounds exhausting, but it's easier than having someone be the default all the time. This morning I had work calls, so he had the kids. This afternoon he has calls, so I have them. Tomorrow is the opposite. I made lunch today, he's making dinner tonight. Sometimes things change when something arises at the last minute, so then we communicate about it and figure out what needs to give.

If your husband won't do that, and you won't leave him, then start living like he doesn't exist. Don't do his laundry. Don't make meals for him. Plan what you want and what you need when YOU want/need it.

I mean, I find it pretty insulting that you think I haven’t tried some version of this, 11 different ways, over the past year. Like I said—it does NOT help the kids for me to harbor resentment and behave like their dad “doesn’t exist.” Ive said my peace, I’m trying to limp along until the end of this, and then we will see what happens. I get that you think I am weak and a loser for choosing this, and that you would never stand for this,, but who cares what an internet person thinks?

And I think what you’re saying and the way you’re saying it is part of the frustration of so many (mostly) women. Like it’s MY fault he’s not stepping up and if only I had the backbone to make him, I wouldn’t be so overwhelmed. That’s wrong and backwards and ignorant, if you ask me.

In my friend group of 20+ families, not a single one of them is dealing with what you're saying you are. So does that mean we all married unicorns? Every one of us works a full-time job, as do our husbands. The only friend I know who has been struggling is one whose husband is an ER doctor and therefore has an erratic and busy schedule. My other friends are a mix of couples where both work at home, one works at home and one outside, and where both work outside. I doubt all of us women somehow magically ended up married to the most amazing men on the planet and also just all happen to be friends. Sorry you married a louse. Next time I won't try to offer any suggestions to help you out. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

I just read the piece that talked about a societal betrayal of families and children, and that's how I have felt since this all began. Women are implicitly expected to do most childcare work, yet that work is also undervalued. I don't think teachers should have returned to unsafe conditions, but the fact that schools are the last priority of our society is the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just read the piece that talked about a societal betrayal of families and children, and that's how I have felt since this all began. Women are implicitly expected to do most childcare work, yet that work is also undervalued. I don't think teachers should have returned to unsafe conditions, but the fact that schools are the last priority of our society is the problem.

You just equated schools with child care. School is not childcare. You are undervaluing education when you do this. Hire a nanny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^Yes, but the problem with just "hanging in there" is that the systemic failures are being disproportionately borne by moms & kids (and of course much more disadvantaged groups both within and outside this category). But everyone is so eff'ing exhausted, they can't do anything about it in terms of pushing systemic change. Vicious circle.

(Not a slam! I am exactly in the same position.)

I’m the PP, and it absolutely BLOWS, and all I can do is hang in there. I can’t afford to really explode or crash or whatever. I’ve made clear to my (male) boss that I’m holding on by a thread and he’s been pretty good about letting me do what I need to do. The unfairness is out of control—my husband does so little of the childcare and other invisible work—but if I blow up our relationship, as I am often tempted to do, it’s creating more problems and not really solving anything.

So...I’m just hanging in there.

Female manager here. You have a serious husband problem. Fix that and then look for accommodations at work.

Yeah. I know. What do you propose I do? I’ve tried a lot of different things short of leaving him, which I’m not willing to do right now.

Write down a schedule. Figure out who does what when. Include work calls and other commitments. My husband knows which days he's responsible for which meals, which ones I'm doing, and which ones we're doing together. We discuss on the weekend who is taking the dogs out, who is getting the kids dressed, who is making breakfast, etc., etc., etc. Maybe that sounds exhausting, but it's easier than having someone be the default all the time. This morning I had work calls, so he had the kids. This afternoon he has calls, so I have them. Tomorrow is the opposite. I made lunch today, he's making dinner tonight. Sometimes things change when something arises at the last minute, so then we communicate about it and figure out what needs to give.

If your husband won't do that, and you won't leave him, then start living like he doesn't exist. Don't do his laundry. Don't make meals for him. Plan what you want and what you need when YOU want/need it.

I mean, I find it pretty insulting that you think I haven’t tried some version of this, 11 different ways, over the past year. Like I said—it does NOT help the kids for me to harbor resentment and behave like their dad “doesn’t exist.” Ive said my peace, I’m trying to limp along until the end of this, and then we will see what happens. I get that you think I am weak and a loser for choosing this, and that you would never stand for this,, but who cares what an internet person thinks?

And I think what you’re saying and the way you’re saying it is part of the frustration of so many (mostly) women. Like it’s MY fault he’s not stepping up and if only I had the backbone to make him, I wouldn’t be so overwhelmed. That’s wrong and backwards and ignorant, if you ask me.

In my friend group of 20+ families, not a single one of them is dealing with what you're saying you are. So does that mean we all married unicorns? Every one of us works a full-time job, as do our husbands. The only friend I know who has been struggling is one whose husband is an ER doctor and therefore has an erratic and busy schedule. My other friends are a mix of couples where both work at home, one works at home and one outside, and where both work outside. I doubt all of us women somehow magically ended up married to the most amazing men on the planet and also just all happen to be friends. Sorry you married a louse. Next time I won't try to offer any suggestions to help you out. Good luck!

NP. Laughable that you think you know what’s going on behind closed doors in 20+ marriages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you don’t have children at home, think of ways to help those who do.

I take birth control so I don't have to do this. Why am I being asked to help parents (for free) but parents aren't being asked to help me? Do my laundry and pay my electricity bill, then I'll watch your kids. Every time someone says "but community" they're expecting help without giving anything back. Paint my living room if community is so important to you.

Those of us without kids are already picking up the slack in many offices. I've been doing the work of 1.75 FTE since last April. My coworkers know and say thank you, but I don't have a choice.

Yeah. But it's kind of interesting to see that some women have higher standards for childless women than they do for their own husbands. You need help? Start asking your DH for help. It's really sort of sexist that they expect other women to work for free just so their DH can maintain his lifestyle of doing nothing. I'm just not interested in doing additional work because a woman bred with a loser and she doesn't care to fix her household.

NP. +100 "Where is my village?" is always code for "I expect other women to chip in with my domestic labor for free."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read the piece that talked about a societal betrayal of families and children, and that's how I have felt since this all began. Women are implicitly expected to do most childcare work, yet that work is also undervalued. I don't think teachers should have returned to unsafe conditions, but the fact that schools are the last priority of our society is the problem.

You just equated schools with child care. School is not childcare. You are undervaluing education when you do this. Hire a nanny.

Give it a rest already! No one is devaluing education while acknowledging that children are CARED FOR while at school. Honestly, all you people who argue about this are the dumbest people on DCUM, and that's saying something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^Yes, but the problem with just "hanging in there" is that the systemic failures are being disproportionately borne by moms & kids (and of course much more disadvantaged groups both within and outside this category). But everyone is so eff'ing exhausted, they can't do anything about it in terms of pushing systemic change. Vicious circle.

(Not a slam! I am exactly in the same position.)

I’m the PP, and it absolutely BLOWS, and all I can do is hang in there. I can’t afford to really explode or crash or whatever. I’ve made clear to my (male) boss that I’m holding on by a thread and he’s been pretty good about letting me do what I need to do. The unfairness is out of control—my husband does so little of the childcare and other invisible work—but if I blow up our relationship, as I am often tempted to do, it’s creating more problems and not really solving anything.

So...I’m just hanging in there.

Female manager here. You have a serious husband problem. Fix that and then look for accommodations at work.

Yeah. I know. What do you propose I do? I’ve tried a lot of different things short of leaving him, which I’m not willing to do right now.

Write down a schedule. Figure out who does what when. Include work calls and other commitments. My husband knows which days he's responsible for which meals, which ones I'm doing, and which ones we're doing together. We discuss on the weekend who is taking the dogs out, who is getting the kids dressed, who is making breakfast, etc., etc., etc. Maybe that sounds exhausting, but it's easier than having someone be the default all the time. This morning I had work calls, so he had the kids. This afternoon he has calls, so I have them. Tomorrow is the opposite. I made lunch today, he's making dinner tonight. Sometimes things change when something arises at the last minute, so then we communicate about it and figure out what needs to give.

If your husband won't do that, and you won't leave him, then start living like he doesn't exist. Don't do his laundry. Don't make meals for him. Plan what you want and what you need when YOU want/need it.

I mean, I find it pretty insulting that you think I haven’t tried some version of this, 11 different ways, over the past year. Like I said—it does NOT help the kids for me to harbor resentment and behave like their dad “doesn’t exist.” Ive said my peace, I’m trying to limp along until the end of this, and then we will see what happens. I get that you think I am weak and a loser for choosing this, and that you would never stand for this,, but who cares what an internet person thinks?

And I think what you’re saying and the way you’re saying it is part of the frustration of so many (mostly) women. Like it’s MY fault he’s not stepping up and if only I had the backbone to make him, I wouldn’t be so overwhelmed. That’s wrong and backwards and ignorant, if you ask me.

In my friend group of 20+ families, not a single one of them is dealing with what you're saying you are. So does that mean we all married unicorns? Every one of us works a full-time job, as do our husbands. The only friend I know who has been struggling is one whose husband is an ER doctor and therefore has an erratic and busy schedule. My other friends are a mix of couples where both work at home, one works at home and one outside, and where both work outside. I doubt all of us women somehow magically ended up married to the most amazing men on the planet and also just all happen to be friends. Sorry you married a louse. Next time I won't try to offer any suggestions to help you out. Good luck!

NP. Laughable that you think you know what’s going on behind closed doors in 20+ marriages.

It's sad that you don't have close friends who talk about what's going on in their lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you don’t have children at home, think of ways to help those who do.

I take birth control so I don't have to do this. Why am I being asked to help parents (for free) but parents aren't being asked to help me? Do my laundry and pay my electricity bill, then I'll watch your kids. Every time someone says "but community" they're expecting help without giving anything back. Paint my living room if community is so important to you.

Those of us without kids are already picking up the slack in many offices. I've been doing the work of 1.75 FTE since last April. My coworkers know and say thank you, but I don't have a choice.

Yeah. But it's kind of interesting to see that some women have higher standards for childless women than they do for their own husbands. You need help? Start asking your DH for help. It's really sort of sexist that they expect other women to work for free just so their DH can maintain his lifestyle of doing nothing. I'm just not interested in doing additional work because a woman bred with a loser and she doesn't care to fix her household.

NP. +100 "Where is my village?" is always code for "I expect other women to chip in with my domestic labor for free."

This!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vaccinate the teachers. Then open the damn schools. - my primal scream

That's great for you but what about me? My kids aren't school-aged yet. They were both supposed to be in preschool but I pulled them out due to covid concerns when, despite using birth control, I found out I'm pregnant with our 3rd. And now I don't want to send the baby to daycare until she's maybe 6 months or a year old for her health and safety.

Ok, what about you? What was your plan for childcare before COVID? Daycare, right? Many daycares are open. But, let's assume out of abundance of caution, you don't want to send your 2 kids (soon to be 3) to any childcare arrangement outside of home. Guess what. For the cost of 2 daycares (~3-3.5K depending on the ages) you can get a nanny to provide care in your home. Infant daycare is more like 2K+ in DC metro area (again, in non-Covid times), so with that math even with no pandemic you're better off with an individual nanny. Do you homework, screen them, pick someone whose risk tolerance is similar to yours, and that's your solution.

This assumes a high quality, COVID safe nanny is 1) available 2) affordable 3) taking all proper precautions and 4) you have the space in your home to accommodate them (ie you don’t live in apartment and have a driveway so they can park their car and not get towed being parked on your street all day, that you have a single family home or town house with adequate space to set up for the nanny to supervise the children while potentially mom and dad work elsewhere in the house - meaning there’s a home office and multiple living spaces - which is not a reality for those in small condos or apartments). Such a privileged mentality to not recognize the actual difficulties here. Also - nannies are in short supply right now and charging a premium.

Did you not read the part where I did the math? What entitles the PP to a high quality affordable nanny? Affordable by whose standards? If pre-covid a daycare teacher per 4-8 kids was enough, then same daycare teacher is looking for a job on sittercity or care-dot-com (or a similar care provider). If you can swing 2 daycare costs - you can hire a nanny. If you can swing 2 daycares and 1 infant care - you can hire a good quality nanny.

No parking spot in the condo? Parking garage is $20 per day or less and bam, nobody is towed.

Adequate space is a subjective term. Every family decides what's adequate for them. If you decided to have 3 kids in a small condo apt, then that's adequate for your situation. Parents take one bedroom as office, kids + nanny have remainder of the space to play, whatever that remainder is. Both parents need to be on a call at the same time? one goes to apt building lobby or to the car if it's super private.

I assure you, nannies are not in a short supply. They are plentiful. It's up to you to do the due diligence and screen and interview about precautions. So, in short, it can be done.
Yes, the past year sucked and was complicated for most people and most choices we have are suboptimal. But it doesn't mean it can't be done.

And daycares are also open if none of the above fits or works.

And what about those who are choosing no care and are trying to maintain their jobs because they feel that’s the only socially responsible choice right now? I suppose you think all those people should lose their jobs because they have a different tolerance for risk than you do and feel that parents being asked to choose between providing for their family and risking their health is an unfair choice. There are literally millions of parents doing care and work with no help because they don’t feel daycare and schools are safe right now. In most school districts parents who had to choose between in person and virtual learning saw at least 1/3 choose all levels virtual. It’s not just as simple as “open the schools” and “daycare is open” or “just hire a nanny.” With 400,000 plus souls dead from the virus many parents are unwilling to use their kids as guinea pigs. You can scream all you want til you are blue in the face that daycare/nannies/schools are safe and maybe they’ve been for your family but they still not convince millions of others who don’t agree with you and it also doesn’t make your choice more right or legitimate. Your choice is just different and only in hindsight will we really know how the chips fell.

It's a free country, you make the choice that's right for your family. If you are making a choice that's not workable, then you need to go back to your decision tree and figure out how to make your choice more workable. It needs to work for you, not for me.

I was answering a specific PP who said her kids are preschool age. I have not expressed any opinion on schools.

What do you suppose the solution is? Give out more money? How on earth do we expect essential workers to show up, leave their kids in daycare or with nanny and provide vital services? They have to make do, but you don't?

I think it's a case of being able to afford a toyota, but choosing only Range Rovers. You can choose all you want, but if it doesn't work, then it's a fantasy, not a choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read the piece that talked about a societal betrayal of families and children, and that's how I have felt since this all began. Women are implicitly expected to do most childcare work, yet that work is also undervalued. I don't think teachers should have returned to unsafe conditions, but the fact that schools are the last priority of our society is the problem.

You just equated schools with child care. School is not childcare. You are undervaluing education when you do this. Hire a nanny.

Give it a rest already! No one is devaluing education while acknowledging that children are CARED FOR while at school. Honestly, all you people who argue about this are the dumbest people on DCUM, and that's saying something.

+100
There are still quite a number of people out there, both men and women, who are uncomfortable with working mothers. To them, this is a sort of punishment working mothers deserve. Tsk, tsk, schools aren't daycare, you have a lot of nerve working full-time when you chose to get pregnant. It's a very unforgiving bunch. Perhaps the economy needs a day without working mothers. Don't spend a single dime of your paycheck to show we're part of the economy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^Yes, but the problem with just "hanging in there" is that the systemic failures are being disproportionately borne by moms & kids (and of course much more disadvantaged groups both within and outside this category). But everyone is so eff'ing exhausted, they can't do anything about it in terms of pushing systemic change. Vicious circle.

(Not a slam! I am exactly in the same position.)

I’m the PP, and it absolutely BLOWS, and all I can do is hang in there. I can’t afford to really explode or crash or whatever. I’ve made clear to my (male) boss that I’m holding on by a thread and he’s been pretty good about letting me do what I need to do. The unfairness is out of control—my husband does so little of the childcare and other invisible work—but if I blow up our relationship, as I am often tempted to do, it’s creating more problems and not really solving anything.

So...I’m just hanging in there.

Female manager here. You have a serious husband problem. Fix that and then look for accommodations at work.

Yeah. I know. What do you propose I do? I’ve tried a lot of different things short of leaving him, which I’m not willing to do right now.

Write down a schedule. Figure out who does what when. Include work calls and other commitments. My husband knows which days he's responsible for which meals, which ones I'm doing, and which ones we're doing together. We discuss on the weekend who is taking the dogs out, who is getting the kids dressed, who is making breakfast, etc., etc., etc. Maybe that sounds exhausting, but it's easier than having someone be the default all the time. This morning I had work calls, so he had the kids. This afternoon he has calls, so I have them. Tomorrow is the opposite. I made lunch today, he's making dinner tonight. Sometimes things change when something arises at the last minute, so then we communicate about it and figure out what needs to give.

If your husband won't do that, and you won't leave him, then start living like he doesn't exist. Don't do his laundry. Don't make meals for him. Plan what you want and what you need when YOU want/need it.

I mean, I find it pretty insulting that you think I haven’t tried some version of this, 11 different ways, over the past year. Like I said—it does NOT help the kids for me to harbor resentment and behave like their dad “doesn’t exist.” Ive said my peace, I’m trying to limp along until the end of this, and then we will see what happens. I get that you think I am weak and a loser for choosing this, and that you would never stand for this,, but who cares what an internet person thinks?

And I think what you’re saying and the way you’re saying it is part of the frustration of so many (mostly) women. Like it’s MY fault he’s not stepping up and if only I had the backbone to make him, I wouldn’t be so overwhelmed. That’s wrong and backwards and ignorant, if you ask me.

In my friend group of 20+ families, not a single one of them is dealing with what you're saying you are. So does that mean we all married unicorns? Every one of us works a full-time job, as do our husbands. The only friend I know who has been struggling is one whose husband is an ER doctor and therefore has an erratic and busy schedule. My other friends are a mix of couples where both work at home, one works at home and one outside, and where both work outside. I doubt all of us women somehow magically ended up married to the most amazing men on the planet and also just all happen to be friends. Sorry you married a louse. Next time I won't try to offer any suggestions to help you out. Good luck!

NP. Laughable that you think you know what’s going on behind closed doors in 20+ marriages.

It's sad that you don't have close friends who talk about what's going on in their lives.

20+ friends sharing the behind-the-scenes struggles of their marriages? Yeah, no, I don’t have the bandwidth for that right now. If that’s sad, so be it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read the piece that talked about a societal betrayal of families and children, and that's how I have felt since this all began. Women are implicitly expected to do most childcare work, yet that work is also undervalued. I don't think teachers should have returned to unsafe conditions, but the fact that schools are the last priority of our society is the problem.

You just equated schools with child care. School is not childcare. You are undervaluing education when you do this. Hire a nanny.

Give it a rest already! No one is devaluing education while acknowledging that children are CARED FOR while at school. Honestly, all you people who argue about this are the dumbest people on DCUM, and that's saying something.

+100
There are still quite a number of people out there, both men and women, who are uncomfortable with working mothers. To them, this is a sort of punishment working mothers deserve. Tsk, tsk, schools aren't daycare, you have a lot of nerve working full-time when you chose to get pregnant. It's a very unforgiving bunch. Perhaps the economy needs a day without working mothers. Don't spend a single dime of your paycheck to show we're part of the economy.

Sing it!

[Anonymous]

If you all need a palate cleanser after the typical unending DCUM "but here's why it's really your fault lady" conversation (I do!), it is refreshing to read a take from a non-cis woman (Roxane Gay) and commentators who don't feel the need to tie themselves into knots to defend and normalize this behavior:

https://twitter.com/rgay/status/1358890790781521922

I don’t understand the incentive for heterosexuality. In this article, the husband comes home, sees his wife working and helping their daughter with autism attend school. She is harried. He points out that his wife needs to help the daughter respond to her teacher.

He DOESNT JUMP IN TO HELP. He just gets his snack. That is grounds for divorce. The women in this piece are working and parenting while their husbands work and shirk parenting.

Ditch these men. There is absolutely no incentive to stay with them.