New York Times Primal Scream Project - discuss...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vaccinate the teachers. Then open the damn schools. - my primal scream

That's great for you but what about me? My kids aren't school-aged yet. They were both supposed to be in preschool but I pulled them out due to covid concerns when, despite using birth control, I found out I'm pregnant with our 3rd. And now I don't want to send the baby to daycare until she's maybe 6 months or a year old for her health and safety.

Listen none of us have made decisions factoring in covid risk before 2020 but now we have to. You have decided that the small risk of getting covid through childcare matters more than anything else. That is your decision. Other people are making different choices and I’m just going to say it are doing much better. I have three kids all out of the house because I work full time and that it what makes me and my family function. I read the NYT article and thought mostly “this is your fault”. It’s January 2021 there are options (unless you can’t afford which I’m not sure is all the NYT families). Every daycare and preschool is open. Dr. Fauci himself has a cleaning lady. And my husband got a vasectomy this year so there won’t be anymore surprises for us. Self help ladies. Yes our government has failed us with lack of maternity leave and subsidized childcare but 2020 is also the story of a ton of unnecessary hand wringing and martyrdom and lack of self help.

It’s a “pick yourself up by your bootstraps” poster. Wow, I guess you don’t think the virus is serious then. Yes, my life would be a million times easier if I sent my asthmatic child and infant to child care. But I’m not comfortable doing so given that the virus is mutating, and the fact that the death and infection rates are higher than they have ever been. Options exist if you are comfortable assuming risk for the benefit of your options. Those of use who prioritize our families health and safety over our own comfort and are willing to sacrifice are routinely lambasted for this choice. I already know several people who died of Covid already. I’m not risking that for my vulnerable kids, and you need to respect my decision as I respect yours. Not everyone has older kids who are healthy. Some of us have infants and newborns who have never been sick. Some of us have kids with medical conditions. And everyone I know who is sending their kids to daycare has spent so many weeks quarantining because of exposures or out because of colds that have to be treated like Covid and tested for, that it’s hardly worth it to them because of all the increased stress and anxiety and lost care.

I think the virus is super serious. That’s why I spent about 5 hours getting my dad a vaccine appointment. If he got sick (small chance but it’s there) he’d have a 20% chance of dying. Not good. Not a single child in fairfax county has died and there are a ton of asthmatic kids there and everywhere. Covid knocking out kids with asthma is not a thing or we’d know by now. So my asthmatic 4 year old goes to preschool. See I have a kid with asthma too? Asthma is not special (thank you climate change). My infant is in daycare. You know why? Because I have a job and my husband has a job and I don’t want to ruin that or my marriage by the way. So I take a reasonable risk. Nobody is saying you need to also but you can’t martyr yourself and then complaint about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not to discount the Times but what in here impressed or validated you exactly? Isnt this article basically a vanilla and cleaned up version of DCUM threads?

Yea, I agree that this article was lacking...but then I also think...what if the writer/editor, etc are moms and just trying their best right now. Still worth criticizing - they don't get a full pass but that thought always creeps into my brain at the moment and I have a moment of understanding, empathy and a small feeling of...sisterhood, I guess we can call it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vaccinate the teachers. Then open the damn schools. - my primal scream

That's great for you but what about me? My kids aren't school-aged yet. They were both supposed to be in preschool but I pulled them out due to covid concerns when, despite using birth control, I found out I'm pregnant with our 3rd. And now I don't want to send the baby to daycare until she's maybe 6 months or a year old for her health and safety.

Listen none of us have made decisions factoring in covid risk before 2020 but now we have to. You have decided that the small risk of getting covid through childcare matters more than anything else. That is your decision. Other people are making different choices and I’m just going to say it are doing much better. I have three kids all out of the house because I work full time and that it what makes me and my family function. I read the NYT article and thought mostly “this is your fault”. It’s January 2021 there are options (unless you can’t afford which I’m not sure is all the NYT families). Every daycare and preschool is open. Dr. Fauci himself has a cleaning lady. And my husband got a vasectomy this year so there won’t be anymore surprises for us. Self help ladies. Yes our government has failed us with lack of maternity leave and subsidized childcare but 2020 is also the story of a ton of unnecessary hand wringing and martyrdom and lack of self help.

It’s a “pick yourself up by your bootstraps” poster. Wow, I guess you don’t think the virus is serious then. Yes, my life would be a million times easier if I sent my asthmatic child and infant to child care. But I’m not comfortable doing so given that the virus is mutating, and the fact that the death and infection rates are higher than they have ever been. Options exist if you are comfortable assuming risk for the benefit of your options. Those of use who prioritize our families health and safety over our own comfort and are willing to sacrifice are routinely lambasted for this choice. I already know several people who died of Covid already. I’m not risking that for my vulnerable kids, and you need to respect my decision as I respect yours. Not everyone has older kids who are healthy. Some of us have infants and newborns who have never been sick. Some of us have kids with medical conditions. And everyone I know who is sending their kids to daycare has spent so many weeks quarantining because of exposures or out because of colds that have to be treated like Covid and tested for, that it’s hardly worth it to them because of all the increased stress and anxiety and lost care.

I think the virus is super serious. That’s why I spent about 5 hours getting my dad a vaccine appointment. If he got sick (small chance but it’s there) he’d have a 20% chance of dying. Not good. Not a single child in fairfax county has died and there are a ton of asthmatic kids there and everywhere. Covid knocking out kids with asthma is not a thing or we’d know by now. So my asthmatic 4 year old goes to preschool. See I have a kid with asthma too? Asthma is not special (thank you climate change). My infant is in daycare. You know why? Because I have a job and my husband has a job and I don’t want to ruin that or my marriage by the way. So I take a reasonable risk. Nobody is saying you need to also but you can’t martyr yourself and then complaint about it.

You think it’s a reasonable risk. I don’t. If your kid got sick, or god forbid ended up with long term health issues as a result of sending them to care, I’m pretty sure you’d feel differently. I personally don’t want to live with the knowledge that during a pandemic that I didn’t do enough to protect my kids. I am not complaining. But you’re acting like people more risk averse than you are wrong and you aren’t respecting different choices.!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The thing that strikes me the most in a lot of these articles is how the fathers are there but not really helping out. Like, they see their wives on a work call and the kid crying at the same time, and go take a nap on the couch or walk back to their office. It’s so enraging and depressing at once. Women are being failed by the system writ large but also in their own homes. My DH is not perfect but he would never pull crap like that. We both work in a school, and as of this fall, I am teaching, he is an administrator, kids are also at daycare and school, albeit with lots of changes and restrictions. We have been lucky where I live, so lucky. My heart goes out to the mothers who are juggling these roles...I was there last spring, and it was so, so hard.

This. Covid has definitely wreaked havoc on people who are trying to work and also do all of the stuff that used to be covered by schools, but in many cases the reason women (as opposed to, you know, all parents) are affected so much is that the men are just not taking on much/any of the added burden. I hear story after story of this nature, and all of the DHs in question pride themselves on being enlightened, etc. And yet...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vaccinate the teachers. Then open the damn schools. - my primal scream

That's great for you but what about me? My kids aren't school-aged yet. They were both supposed to be in preschool but I pulled them out due to covid concerns when, despite using birth control, I found out I'm pregnant with our 3rd. And now I don't want to send the baby to daycare until she's maybe 6 months or a year old for her health and safety.

Listen none of us have made decisions factoring in covid risk before 2020 but now we have to. You have decided that the small risk of getting covid through childcare matters more than anything else. That is your decision. Other people are making different choices and I’m just going to say it are doing much better. I have three kids all out of the house because I work full time and that it what makes me and my family function. I read the NYT article and thought mostly “this is your fault”. It’s January 2021 there are options (unless you can’t afford which I’m not sure is all the NYT families). Every daycare and preschool is open. Dr. Fauci himself has a cleaning lady. And my husband got a vasectomy this year so there won’t be anymore surprises for us. Self help ladies. Yes our government has failed us with lack of maternity leave and subsidized childcare but 2020 is also the story of a ton of unnecessary hand wringing and martyrdom and lack of self help.

It’s a “pick yourself up by your bootstraps” poster. Wow, I guess you don’t think the virus is serious then. Yes, my life would be a million times easier if I sent my asthmatic child and infant to child care. But I’m not comfortable doing so given that the virus is mutating, and the fact that the death and infection rates are higher than they have ever been. Options exist if you are comfortable assuming risk for the benefit of your options. Those of use who prioritize our families health and safety over our own comfort and are willing to sacrifice are routinely lambasted for this choice. I already know several people who died of Covid already. I’m not risking that for my vulnerable kids, and you need to respect my decision as I respect yours. Not everyone has older kids who are healthy. Some of us have infants and newborns who have never been sick. Some of us have kids with medical conditions. And everyone I know who is sending their kids to daycare has spent so many weeks quarantining because of exposures or out because of colds that have to be treated like Covid and tested for, that it’s hardly worth it to them because of all the increased stress and anxiety and lost care.

I think the virus is super serious. That’s why I spent about 5 hours getting my dad a vaccine appointment. If he got sick (small chance but it’s there) he’d have a 20% chance of dying. Not good. Not a single child in fairfax county has died and there are a ton of asthmatic kids there and everywhere. Covid knocking out kids with asthma is not a thing or we’d know by now. So my asthmatic 4 year old goes to preschool. See I have a kid with asthma too? Asthma is not special (thank you climate change). My infant is in daycare. You know why? Because I have a job and my husband has a job and I don’t want to ruin that or my marriage by the way. So I take a reasonable risk. Nobody is saying you need to also but you can’t martyr yourself and then complaint about it.

Thank.you.

+a million

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing that strikes me the most in a lot of these articles is how the fathers are there but not really helping out. Like, they see their wives on a work call and the kid crying at the same time, and go take a nap on the couch or walk back to their office. It’s so enraging and depressing at once. Women are being failed by the system writ large but also in their own homes. My DH is not perfect but he would never pull crap like that. We both work in a school, and as of this fall, I am teaching, he is an administrator, kids are also at daycare and school, albeit with lots of changes and restrictions. We have been lucky where I live, so lucky. My heart goes out to the mothers who are juggling these roles...I was there last spring, and it was so, so hard.

This. Covid has definitely wreaked havoc on people who are trying to work and also do all of the stuff that used to be covered by schools, but in many cases the reason women (as opposed to, you know, all parents) are affected so much is that the men are just not taking on much/any of the added burden. I hear story after story of this nature, and all of the DHs in question pride themselves on being enlightened, etc. And yet...

Women can take this opportunity to truly evaluate their marriages and determine whether or not they want to continue working two full time jobs. Believe it or not, this is the reason why MANY women become SAHMs - if the husband is not going to do both (earn money and take care of children/home) then the wife sure as hell doesn’t have to do both. If lifestyle has to take a hit, that’s on the men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not to discount the Times but what in here impressed or validated you exactly? Isnt this article basically a vanilla and cleaned up version of DCUM threads?

Yea, I agree that this article was lacking...but then I also think...what if the writer/editor, etc are moms and just trying their best right now. Still worth criticizing - they don't get a full pass but that thought always creeps into my brain at the moment and I have a moment of understanding, empathy and a small feeling of...sisterhood, I guess we can call it.

Its the New York freaking Times. This paper influences millions and is cited globally. If you can't do your best, then allow someone without mental fatigue to write the articles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing that strikes me the most in a lot of these articles is how the fathers are there but not really helping out. Like, they see their wives on a work call and the kid crying at the same time, and go take a nap on the couch or walk back to their office. It’s so enraging and depressing at once. Women are being failed by the system writ large but also in their own homes. My DH is not perfect but he would never pull crap like that. We both work in a school, and as of this fall, I am teaching, he is an administrator, kids are also at daycare and school, albeit with lots of changes and restrictions. We have been lucky where I live, so lucky. My heart goes out to the mothers who are juggling these roles...I was there last spring, and it was so, so hard.

This. Covid has definitely wreaked havoc on people who are trying to work and also do all of the stuff that used to be covered by schools, but in many cases the reason women (as opposed to, you know, all parents) are affected so much is that the men are just not taking on much/any of the added burden. I hear story after story of this nature, and all of the DHs in question pride themselves on being enlightened, etc. And yet...

Women can take this opportunity to truly evaluate their marriages and determine whether or not they want to continue working two full time jobs. Believe it or not, this is the reason why MANY women become SAHMs - if the husband is not going to do both (earn money and take care of children/home) then the wife sure as hell doesn’t have to do both. If lifestyle has to take a hit, that’s on the men.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you don’t have children at home, think of ways to help those who do.

I take birth control so I don't have to do this. Why am I being asked to help parents (for free) but parents aren't being asked to help me? Do my laundry and pay my electricity bill, then I'll watch your kids. Every time someone says "but community" they're expecting help without giving anything back. Paint my living room if community is so important to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing that strikes me the most in a lot of these articles is how the fathers are there but not really helping out. Like, they see their wives on a work call and the kid crying at the same time, and go take a nap on the couch or walk back to their office. It’s so enraging and depressing at once. Women are being failed by the system writ large but also in their own homes. My DH is not perfect but he would never pull crap like that. We both work in a school, and as of this fall, I am teaching, he is an administrator, kids are also at daycare and school, albeit with lots of changes and restrictions. We have been lucky where I live, so lucky. My heart goes out to the mothers who are juggling these roles...I was there last spring, and it was so, so hard.

This. Covid has definitely wreaked havoc on people who are trying to work and also do all of the stuff that used to be covered by schools, but in many cases the reason women (as opposed to, you know, all parents) are affected so much is that the men are just not taking on much/any of the added burden. I hear story after story of this nature, and all of the DHs in question pride themselves on being enlightened, etc. And yet...

Women can take this opportunity to truly evaluate their marriages and determine whether or not they want to continue working two full time jobs. Believe it or not, this is the reason why MANY women become SAHMs - if the husband is not going to do both (earn money and take care of children/home) then the wife sure as hell doesn’t have to do both. If lifestyle has to take a hit, that’s on the men.

Yeah, that’s not really going to help any of these women in the long run, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you don’t have children at home, think of ways to help those who do.

I take birth control so I don't have to do this. Why am I being asked to help parents (for free) but parents aren't being asked to help me? Do my laundry and pay my electricity bill, then I'll watch your kids. Every time someone says "but community" they're expecting help without giving anything back. Paint my living room if community is so important to you.

Those of us without kids are already picking up the slack in many offices. I've been doing the work of 1.75 FTE since last April. My coworkers know and say thank you, but I don't have a choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vaccinate the teachers. Then open the damn schools. - my primal scream

That's great for you but what about me? My kids aren't school-aged yet. They were both supposed to be in preschool but I pulled them out due to covid concerns when, despite using birth control, I found out I'm pregnant with our 3rd. And now I don't want to send the baby to daycare until she's maybe 6 months or a year old for her health and safety.

Listen none of us have made decisions factoring in covid risk before 2020 but now we have to. You have decided that the small risk of getting covid through childcare matters more than anything else. That is your decision. Other people are making different choices and I’m just going to say it are doing much better. I have three kids all out of the house because I work full time and that it what makes me and my family function. I read the NYT article and thought mostly “this is your fault”. It’s January 2021 there are options (unless you can’t afford which I’m not sure is all the NYT families). Every daycare and preschool is open. Dr. Fauci himself has a cleaning lady. And my husband got a vasectomy this year so there won’t be anymore surprises for us. Self help ladies. Yes our government has failed us with lack of maternity leave and subsidized childcare but 2020 is also the story of a ton of unnecessary hand wringing and martyrdom and lack of self help.

It’s a “pick yourself up by your bootstraps” poster. Wow, I guess you don’t think the virus is serious then. Yes, my life would be a million times easier if I sent my asthmatic child and infant to child care. But I’m not comfortable doing so given that the virus is mutating, and the fact that the death and infection rates are higher than they have ever been. Options exist if you are comfortable assuming risk for the benefit of your options. Those of use who prioritize our families health and safety over our own comfort and are willing to sacrifice are routinely lambasted for this choice. I already know several people who died of Covid already. I’m not risking that for my vulnerable kids, and you need to respect my decision as I respect yours. Not everyone has older kids who are healthy. Some of us have infants and newborns who have never been sick. Some of us have kids with medical conditions. And everyone I know who is sending their kids to daycare has spent so many weeks quarantining because of exposures or out because of colds that have to be treated like Covid and tested for, that it’s hardly worth it to them because of all the increased stress and anxiety and lost care.

I think the virus is super serious. That’s why I spent about 5 hours getting my dad a vaccine appointment. If he got sick (small chance but it’s there) he’d have a 20% chance of dying. Not good. Not a single child in fairfax county has died and there are a ton of asthmatic kids there and everywhere. Covid knocking out kids with asthma is not a thing or we’d know by now. So my asthmatic 4 year old goes to preschool. See I have a kid with asthma too? Asthma is not special (thank you climate change). My infant is in daycare. You know why? Because I have a job and my husband has a job and I don’t want to ruin that or my marriage by the way. So I take a reasonable risk. Nobody is saying you need to also but you can’t martyr yourself and then complaint about it.

Thank.you.

+a million[/quote

This. Daycares are safe. If you choose to fear them anyway, fine, but the system isn’t failing you then. An expensive, imperfect option exists and you won’t use it (even though asthma doesn’t make anyone high risk). That’s fine, but that is different than public schools being closed. Daycare is open; schools are closed. Way different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you don’t have children at home, think of ways to help those who do.

I take birth control so I don't have to do this. Why am I being asked to help parents (for free) but parents aren't being asked to help me? Do my laundry and pay my electricity bill, then I'll watch your kids. Every time someone says "but community" they're expecting help without giving anything back. Paint my living room if community is so important to you.

Those of us without kids are already picking up the slack in many offices. I've been doing the work of 1.75 FTE since last April. My coworkers know and say thank you, but I don't have a choice.

Yeah. But it's kind of interesting to see that some women have higher standards for childless women than they do for their own husbands. You need help? Start asking your DH for help. It's really sort of sexist that they expect other women to work for free just so their DH can maintain his lifestyle of doing nothing. I'm just not interested in doing additional work because a woman bred with a loser and she doesn't care to fix her household.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Vaccinate the teachers. Then open the damn schools. - my primal scream

That's great for you but what about me? My kids aren't school-aged yet. They were both supposed to be in preschool but I pulled them out due to covid concerns when, despite using birth control, I found out I'm pregnant with our 3rd. And now I don't want to send the baby to daycare until she's maybe 6 months or a year old for her health and safety.

Listen none of us have made decisions factoring in covid risk before 2020 but now we have to. You have decided that the small risk of getting covid through childcare matters more than anything else. That is your decision. Other people are making different choices and I’m just going to say it are doing much better. I have three kids all out of the house because I work full time and that it what makes me and my family function. I read the NYT article and thought mostly “this is your fault”. It’s January 2021 there are options (unless you can’t afford which I’m not sure is all the NYT families). Every daycare and preschool is open. Dr. Fauci himself has a cleaning lady. And my husband got a vasectomy this year so there won’t be anymore surprises for us. Self help ladies. Yes our government has failed us with lack of maternity leave and subsidized childcare but 2020 is also the story of a ton of unnecessary hand wringing and martyrdom and lack of self help.

It’s a “pick yourself up by your bootstraps” poster. Wow, I guess you don’t think the virus is serious then. Yes, my life would be a million times easier if I sent my asthmatic child and infant to child care. But I’m not comfortable doing so given that the virus is mutating, and the fact that the death and infection rates are higher than they have ever been. Options exist if you are comfortable assuming risk for the benefit of your options. Those of use who prioritize our families health and safety over our own comfort and are willing to sacrifice are routinely lambasted for this choice. I already know several people who died of Covid already. I’m not risking that for my vulnerable kids, and you need to respect my decision as I respect yours. Not everyone has older kids who are healthy. Some of us have infants and newborns who have never been sick. Some of us have kids with medical conditions. And everyone I know who is sending their kids to daycare has spent so many weeks quarantining because of exposures or out because of colds that have to be treated like Covid and tested for, that it’s hardly worth it to them because of all the increased stress and anxiety and lost care.

I think the virus is super serious. That’s why I spent about 5 hours getting my dad a vaccine appointment. If he got sick (small chance but it’s there) he’d have a 20% chance of dying. Not good. Not a single child in fairfax county has died and there are a ton of asthmatic kids there and everywhere. Covid knocking out kids with asthma is not a thing or we’d know by now. So my asthmatic 4 year old goes to preschool. See I have a kid with asthma too? Asthma is not special (thank you climate change). My infant is in daycare. You know why? Because I have a job and my husband has a job and I don’t want to ruin that or my marriage by the way. So I take a reasonable risk. Nobody is saying you need to also but you can’t martyr yourself and then complaint about it.

Thank.you.

+a million[/quote

This. Daycares are safe. If you choose to fear them anyway, fine, but the system isn’t failing you then. An expensive, imperfect option exists and you won’t use it (even though asthma doesn’t make anyone high risk). That’s fine, but that is different than public schools being closed. Daycare is open; schools are closed. Way different.

Show me the evidence that they are safe. Because literally every person I know using them has had multiple Covid scares and has had to quarantine multiple times due to exposures. That’s not safe to me.

[Anonymous]

My daycare hasn’t had a scare.